Specs Don't Matter: TechPowerUp Poll on GTX 970 Controversy

[xvi]

You do realize that what you described has absolutely nothing to do with memory bandwidth, right? Upping the shader count never yields the same percentage in regards to real-life performance gain. Never ever. It's because of the way the GPU itself schedules tasks for its many shader groups, basically. The more shader groups, the more complex and hairy it all gets, so yeah, ~15% gain sounds about right considering the difference in frequency and shader count between the 970 and the 980.

Want a famous example? Radeon HD 3870 (320 VLIW5 shaders) versus Radeon HD 4870 (800 of the same VLIW5 shaders). The 4870 was about 56% more powerful, even though the shader count alone would indicate a massive jump in performance. And memory bandwidth had absolutely nothing to do with it.

@the54thvoid : Heh, long story, that part of the nickname actually has to do with the initials of my name. Not that hard to guess that I was rather young (although not 13) when I chose the nickname. And yeah, I've been around a really long time. I just rarely post. I enjoy the site and the community (gotta love those slug-fests between fanboys, eh?), I'm just rarely tempted to get involved.

You don't post often, but when you do, you post well.

 

[apoe]

I may be an outlier here, but when it comes to graphics cards, I have never paid any attention to the specs. When checking reviews, I typically skip the spec charts entirely and go straight to the performance numbers. I bought the 970 based on game performance and was very pleased with it. If I was running 4k, the 3.5 + 0.5 issue would annoy me, but I'm still on 1080p144 for the time being.

I've used 4k (DSR) and 4x SGSSAA on some older games and haven't run into VRAM problems, but what about newer, more demanding games at 4k for people running multi GPU setups?

I find it incredibly scummy that nvidia would lie like this, so I fully understand those that returned their cards out of principle. Really stupid actually, the card would have sold perfectly fine without needing to twist the specs like that. Shameful.

 

[johnerz]

For the price, the performance is terrific and I'm happy with my purchase, its also a folding monster and I use it for that as well as some gaming, its still better than any of the single AMD cards regardless of their price, and if you are an EVGA buyer, you can always "step up" to a 980 (there is a cost to this of course)

I'm very happy with my EVGA 970 FTW+ @1540 and only using 76.6% tdp

 

[ensabrenoir]

gonna buy a 970 next week.... but even if i had one already:

 

[Jurassic1024]

I'm just glad I'm not part of the 99% of people that blew this way out of proportion.

 

[xfia]

eh.. this aint the only thing this thing has going on..
so damn overclocked there is people that have to turn up the voltage for stability with stock clocks. not really a large number of people but still a fact.
kepler was the real deal and they didnt skimp out and turn up the clocks for more profit.

 

[Regenweald]

TPU really seems to be going the extra mile to push the 'no big deal' wagon. NP really, this is the real world, and websites aren't paid for with unbiased reporting and personal integrity.

I wonder if Samsung or Apple advertised a 4GB next gen and really delivered 3.5, if the Nvidia NBD chorus would sing as loud, or would they chastise the Apple apologists for being cultish and demand a refund when their supposed multi-tasking android monsters started stuttering under memory pressure ?

 

[Zantetsu]

Specs of the GTX 970 don't matter, so stay with the IGP, the specs doesn't matter anyway...

 

[toddincabo]

I check out The Tech Report every day and have kept an eye on that poll. All week long it was "Unhappy with NVIDIA, and said they won't buy the GTX 970, because NVIDIA lied about its specs" by a wide margin and then overnight it jumped to 61.4%.

Just sayin'

 

[toddincabo]

When i voted the majority was set on not buying the 970 or returning theirs, how did it did change so dramatically?

Same here.

 

[xfia]

maybe a memo went out to nv employees to shift the vote

it doesnt mean anything anyway.. its a small sample that doesnt reflect the whole world.

I would have to say most people who bought it got one for perfect 1080p gaming. at least it can do that with no worries.

 

[Saidrex]

For me personally - wouldn't matter, since it has fantastic performance per $ anyway. Of course shame for those 500GB but since there is nothing better for that price and I'm perfectly happy with 1080p... (just don't start pointing fingers at "red", I hate that brand and everything associated with it, no way I'm ever buying any "red" card again. Some things will be never forgiven ).

 

[alwayssts]

Why do so many people find it hard to believe that most people simply don't care about the last 512MB as it is completely useless for 1080P and 1440P users? If it was only the last 256MB would you care? and about about the last 128MB or 64MB?

It's not completely useless, and a valid point of consternation (especially because of latency spikes associated when transitioning in/out of the partitions), but there becomes a point where it becomes time to stop bitching about it unless someone is actually going to do something about it wrt nvidia directly. I mean absolutely no ire directed at you or anyone else personally...this is just all getting very old...especially when people are weighing in on performance when they don't and have no intention to own the card (amongst other biases). I own it. The limitations associated with this debacle is a very practical bummer. I will ditch the card when there is a better option for my use. It almost saddens me that may end up being a '5.5GB' GM200. I follow perf/value etc, but I certainly feel better about my amd purchases up until this point, and affirmation on my long-held perception of nvidia. I am also completely fed up with (especially professional) apologists...not to be confused with those that hold different opinions or have had different experiences.

TBH, I am saddened by how much TPU has milked this story, and also think the poll was inherently flawed. I want to know where the 'I am pissed/disappointed about it but am not going to return it/still going to buy it' option? The basis of this post has a black/white assertion which is categorically incorrect, and I feel doesn't reflect how most people see the situation.

Is it still a good value considering features (like HDMI 2.0, smaller card sizes, lower power consumption) the competition can't match? Sure.

Is it still fairly priced given it's performance (when not limited by 3.5GB) and those features? In terms of raw value, it's now in the typical 'pay slightly more for nvidia' price/perf, so yes. It's fair, and a good compromise given current options for many...but it's just that: fair. Far from ideal or the massive value it was made out to be at launch as these issues have decreased both it's perceived and real value while amd's price cuts increased theirs (if their cards will work for your situation).

I don't mean to sound hypocritical when I say I think the issue has been beaten to death and needs to stop being flaunted for page views (which is sad given some still don't understand the impact the real specs cause), while also stating I think nvidia surely is dead-set counting on this blowing over...which it can't be overstated is super *expletive* shady. They know the card is still priced fair, and are using that as an excuse, but we were sold it as 'better than fair'...which I understand can sound naive from the outside. The no free lunch is certainly a way to look at this, but that really isn't the point. The point is they shouldn't be able to get away with it by spinning that web after the fact.

I don't have a good answer to what should happen next from publications/users, but I hope it doesn't involve beating the drawn, quartered, sliced, ground hamburger that used to be a horse. If anything it should just lay as a black mark on nvidia's record and hopefully neither users nor reviewers forget it. If there was any kind of question what kind of company nvidia is, let this remove all doubt.

 

[RCoon]

Did anyone see the figures that released this morning? Out of all the 970's purchased, less than 5% were returned after all the media blowout.

 

[john_]

I would have thought it was obvious. Consumers in general have short memories - especially so in markets with a high incidence of built in obsolescence. Nothing in my previous post(s) was a personal attack aimed at you, yet you've chosen to see it as such - so that's something you're best answering yourself. As for singling out a part of your post, it was done so to highlight the general malaise that consumers view tech. As I pointed out earlier

Just checking, and no I wasn't feeling that you where attacking me, but that there was possibility trying to downgrade my opinion. The only reason I didn't check that article about UVD was that, I didn't cared reading that article and trying to find a way to defend or whatever AMD. The fact that I didn't cared reading it, doesn't mean that I didn't noted it.

The rest of your post? Well, that - buyer beware, in essence - was stated as your opinion, and your opinion is as valid as anyone else's. Why would I argue opinion when the represented values have differing levels of impact from person to person?
My opinion is that if fugitive war criminals whose part-time hobby was spreading Ebola through orphanages decided to sell graphics cards at 30% of MSRP, people would get crushed in the stampede to buy them.

If Nvidia starts selling 970 at 30% I will try quad SLi with them the next minute. But I will still question their business practices. So while "people would get crushed in the stampede to buy them", after getting the cards in their hands will still want the heads of those fugitive war criminals on a plate.

 

[john_]

Did anyone see the figures that released this morning? Out of all the 970's purchased, less than 5% were returned after all the media blowout.

You return the card now. Then buy a 290X? A 780Ti? Pay even more for 980? Take your money back and stay for a few months with the card you have as reserve, that G210 something, waiting for the new ones?
Or you don't return the card now, but when 300 series or the next Nvidia comes out?
"I just found out, I want a refund or a 300 series or the 980 that just come down to $400 because the new 980Ti was introduced yesterday".
If I am not mistaken Overclockers and Caseking who offered to take back the cards, specifically say that this offer is limited for February. The reason is obvious I believe.

 

[Assimilator]

eh.. this aint the only thing this thing has going on..
so damn overclocked there is people that have to turn up the voltage for stability with stock clocks. not really a large number of people but still a fact.
kepler was the real deal and they didnt skimp out and turn up the clocks for more profit.

Source?

 

[HumanSmoke]

The only reason I didn't check that article about UVD was that, I didn't cared reading that article and trying to find a way to defend or whatever AMD. The fact that I didn't cared reading it, doesn't mean that I didn't noted it.

Why would you feel the need to defend AMD ? It happened years ago, the company took the hit and moved on. I just used it as an example of how shady behaviour goes from being the cause célèbre to barely registering on the consciousness over a period of time. Consumers don't tend to hold a grudge long term- especially in tech. Plenty of graphics card makers have existed, but I can't think of any that have gone under from anything other than a failure to keep pace with their competitors and bad business planning.

If Nvidia starts selling 970 at 30% I will try quad SLi with them the next minute.

That would be a waste. The 970 is only capable of tri-SLI

But I will still question their business practices. So while "people would get crushed in the stampede to buy them", after getting the cards in their hands will still want the heads of those fugitive war criminals on a plate.

See my earlier point. The vast majority of end-users don't give a shit. Intel had a strategic business plan built on anticompetitive practice ( Suing Seeq, ULSI, and Chips & Technologies into oblivion, all but crushing Cyrix in a wrongful lawsuit, stifling AMD and NEC sales through litigation etc. etc.) that has a higher public awareness and vaster scale than virtually any other misdeeds in the industry, yet Intel have recorded record revenue consistently throughout.

 

[xfia]

of course there would be no article to back it up but there was someone on another forum that shared and one other person said they had the same thing. there was someone here too that said the same so whoever it was will maybe see this.
I think its probably hard to bin for the high clocks much like with the 9590 and AMD also has a few that get through the cracks.

 

[RCoon]

of course there would be no article to back it up but there was someone on another forum that shared and one other person said they had the same thing. there was someone here too that said the same so whoever it was will maybe see this.
I think its probably hard to bin for the high clocks much like with the 9590 and AMD also has a few that get through the cracks.

I thought it was just a specific model of Zotac cards that had to bump up the voltage in some cases.

 

[xfia]

must be then.. I know there is at least one model that boosts over 1500mhz core clock. cool and all to see those high clocks but more cores is where its at for gpu's in my opinion.

 

[RHoudini]

The poll confirms what I've seen on most forums.

The vast majority of GTX 970 owners are very happy with its performance and find all this a storm in a teacup.

It's mostly the people that do NOT own the GTX 970 that cry foul and are very vocal about all this. Check the comments above .

 

[64K]

TPU really seems to be going the extra mile to push the 'no big deal' wagon. NP really, this is the real world, and websites aren't paid for with unbiased reporting and personal integrity.

I wonder if Samsung or Apple advertised a 4GB next gen and really delivered 3.5, if the Nvidia NBD chorus would sing as loud, or would they chastise the Apple apologists for being cultish and demand a refund when their supposed multi-tasking android monsters started stuttering under memory pressure ?

I guess you missed W1zzard's post a while back where he said Nvidia lied to us and they lied to you. If he was in Nvidia's pocket then he never would have said that.

 

[ensabrenoir]

Ummm guys ......this is Nvidia were talking about here. .....the 970 was probably the original 960 (hence what we precieve as a great price) but it performed too well in spite of their efforts to gimp it. So a little name swapping (someone forgot to update the specs though) and here we are. Nice card in the middle of a mess.

 

[scorpion_amd13]

up for a long term hibernation I guess?

Nah, just sitting back and watching the show unfold all this time. "Stalker-Mode™", I guess...

You don't post often, but when you do, you post well.

Thanks. This is also why I don't post very often (that and the fact that sometimes I'm too lazy... well, I'm lazy most of the time...).

I'm just glad I'm not part of the 99% of people that blew this way out of proportion.

Come on now, we're not gathering in the town square with torches and pitchforks come dusk. nVidia fanboys go on far more savage witch-hunts whenever anybody says nVidia did anything wrong or they just feel like gloating. This is domestic by comparison.

Did anyone see the figures that released this morning? Out of all the 970's purchased, less than 5% were returned after all the media blowout.

Considering their regular return rate for defective cards is about 10% (all models, this figure includes custom cards), 5% may make this more of a problem for nVidia than most would think. It is disappointingly low, I must admit, but the real backlash for this screw-up is likely to come from retailers (trust me, they're really pissed) and partners (the guys that would consider it a big win if they get to save a single cent per card).

The poll confirms what I've seen on most forums.

The vast majority of GTX 970 owners are very happy with its performance and find all this a storm in a teacup.

It's mostly the people that do NOT own the GTX 970 that cry foul and are very vocal about all this. Check the comments above .

Of course they're happy with the card's performance. It's a pretty great card and I don't remember anyone saying otherwise. That's not the issue, though. The issue is that nVidia LIED in order to increase its profits. So far, the only people that just don't seem to understand the importance of what this means are nVidia fanboys. The polls and forum discussions and everything else confirms this also, even more clearly than anything else. You people just don't want to understand that THIS affects everyone else, not just GTX 970 owners, and that as such, everyone should rally to send a clear message that this cannot be allowed to stand. The way things stand now, nVidia got away with it better than they ever expected. They'll most certainly do this again, because they have their goon squads of white... erm... green knights in shining armor, always ready and willing to let them get away with murder and silence anyone that would complain. Maybe next month they'll decide to rebrand all GTX 960 cards as GTX 970 and sell them at GTX 970 prices, you folks should be really pleased then.