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NSA Hides Spying Backdoors into Hard Drive Firmware

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I don't believe that the motherboard bios loads firmware from a sata-connected HDD into system ram, that doesn't sound correct to me. PCIe card, sure.
 

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These are claims from a foreign country (Russian no less) about the USA and the NSA. I will trust statements/info about my country from my country. Thank you very much.
 

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This is probably true but I would like to see the evidence first. The NSA is obviously quite capable of doing this if they want.
 
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Boo Hoo. Don't concern me one bit as I have nothing to hide.

Sad. I suggest you read up on the sort of thing that happens in totalitarian regimes where there is no privacy. Maybe read "1984". Wonder why right to privacy was written into the constitution? Along with a lot of other things that are being ignored.

Maybe you don't care now, but what if you did? What if your society was taken over by really fucked up dudes who started doing things that any decent person would take issue with... and you were powerless to even protest because they know everything thing you do? Spying on all electronic communications, spying with drones. The ability to easily track anyone. Stalin would have been in constant orgasmic ecstasy if this had been possible in his day.

And I'll let you know why I think things are going to happen fairly soon that most people will have an issue with. Computers are getting more sophisticated all the time. Before long they will be "smart" enough to make some human workers obsolete... meaning that the person has *no* viable task that they can perform better or at a lower cost than a machine. These people will be unemployable, and as the machines continue to become more sophisticated, the number of persons in this category will grow.

Most likely welfare will be expanded, and propaganda will continue to pit the middle class (who experience higher taxes and declining living standards) against the lower class (who don't work and receive the dole). Divide and conquer. But the population will be mollified and distracted one way or another while the number of unemployable persons grows.

Every developed country in the world runs on a consumer capitalist economic model. That's because it has been shown to work better than any other. The consumer/worker is vital part of this system, because the prosperity of the capitalist depends on the prosperity of the consumer. The capitalist makes profit from making and selling stuff to consumers. If consumer income and wealth doesn't increases, then the capitalist's wealth can't either for long. It's symbiotic. It also favors a democratic government, human rights, and freedom. Why? The general population will work harder and be more efficient and more willing to fight wars if they are free, which ultimately increases the power and wealth of the capitalists.

This will soon be obsolete. As the economically useless humans become a greater % of the population, consumer capitalism will no longer be viable. From the capitalist standpoint the consumer is no longer a vital part of the system, but rather something that merely consumes resources while providing no value to them. Vermin. Instead they can use those resources for themselves, and use robotic serfs and slaves to build whatever they want directly and much more efficiently than ever before. Robots will also fight the wars.

What do you suppose will happen to our human rights and living standards then? The rich will have every reason to reduce the amount of resources "wasted" on keeping useless humans alive, meaning that our living standard will gradually deteriorate, along with any thoughts of of rights or freedom. Don't take freedom for granted folks... it became fashionable at the same time as consumer capitalism, and is in fact dependent on it. It will probably happen gradually enough to keep the population from complaining too much until it's too late to do anything about it. It might already be too late. I imagine in a short few decades we will be "happily" spending nearly all our time in VR pods hooked up to feeding and evacuation tubes... until we die. That is the only option we will have. And that is an optimistic scenario. Useless humans might be eliminated much more swiftly.

The alternative? That democracy and freedom are actually strong enough for the interests and wishes of the majority to win out over the desires of the powerful few. And so we share the bounty and all live better and more interesting lives without needing to work. Trends over the last few decades are not heading in this direction though... at all.

Good luck.

I'll leave this here...

 

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They have access to 1s and 0s. They can take those 1s and 0s, and run them through their multi billion dollar decryption farms.

If they have low-level access to the system's RAM, they don't need to run it through decryption farms. They can read data directly out of your RAM or FileStreams as they open, no decryption required. As far as I understand encryption only helps if you haven't already booted your computer and logged in.
 
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I was planning on gettin 10 3.5inch hdd for my raid system, guess ill go hitachi now instead of western digital.

You lost me as customer WD, by by !
 
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Boo Hoo. Don't concern me one bit as I have nothing to hide.
I'm sure that you leave the toilet door wide open when you are taking a dump. Next time invite your neighbors to watch you.
 
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Sad. I suggest you read up on the sort of thing that happens in totalitarian regimes where there is no privacy. Maybe read "1984". Wonder why right to privacy was written into the constitution? Along with a lot of other things that are being ignored.

Maybe you don't care now, but what if you did? What if your society was taken over by really fucked up dudes who started doing things that any decent person would take issue with... and you were powerless to even protest because they know everything thing you do? Spying on all electronic communications, spying with drones. The ability to easily track anyone. Stalin would have been in constant orgasmic ecstasy if this had been possible in his day.

And I'll let you know why I think things are going to happen fairly soon that most people will have an issue with. Computers are getting more sophisticated all the time. Before long they will be "smart" enough to make some human workers obsolete... meaning that the person has *no* viable task that they can perform better or at a lower cost than a machine. These people will be unemployable, and as the machines continue to become more sophisticated, the number of persons in this category will grow.

Most likely welfare will be expanded, and propaganda will continue to pit the middle class (who experience higher taxes and declining living standards) against the lower class (who don't work and receive the dole). Divide and conquer. But the population will be mollified and distracted one way or another while the number of unemployable persons grows.

Every developed country in the world runs on a consumer capitalist economic model. That's because it has been shown to work better than any other. The consumer/worker is vital part of this system, because the prosperity of the capitalist depends on the prosperity of the consumer. The capitalist makes profit from making and selling stuff to consumers. If consumer income and wealth doesn't increases, then the capitalist's wealth can't either for long. It's symbiotic. It also favors a democratic government, human rights, and freedom. Why? The general population will work harder and be more efficient and more willing to fight wars if they are free, which ultimately increases the power and wealth of the capitalists.

This will soon be obsolete. As the economically useless humans become a greater % of the population, consumer capitalism will no longer be viable. From the capitalist standpoint the consumer is no longer a vital part of the system, but rather something that merely consumes resources while providing no value to them. Vermin. Instead they can use those resources for themselves, and use robotic serfs and slaves to build whatever they want directly and much more efficiently than ever before. Robots will also fight the wars.

What do you suppose will happen to our human rights and living standards then? The rich will have every reason to reduce the amount of resources "wasted" on keeping useless humans alive, meaning that our living standard will gradually deteriorate, along with any thoughts of of rights or freedom. Don't take freedom for granted folks... it became fashionable at the same time as consumer capitalism, and is in fact dependent on it. It will probably happen gradually enough to keep the population from complaining too much until it's too late to do anything about it. It might already be too late. I imagine in a short few decades we will be "happily" spending nearly all our time in VR pods hooked up to feeding and evacuation tubes... until we die. That is the only option we will have. And that is an optimistic scenario. Useless humans might be eliminated much more swiftly.

The alternative? That democracy and freedom are actually strong enough for the interests and wishes of the majority to win out over the desires of the powerful few. And so we share the bounty and all live better and more interesting lives without needing to work. Trends over the last few decades are not heading in this direction though... at all.

Good luck.

I'll leave this here...


gets pretty grim when you start talking about vr pods :fear:I prefer to think of the future with positivity and watch things that help with that. fear is a easy way to control people and take away the power of the majority. if you believe what spiritual teachers tell us then you know thoughts affect the collective consciousness and affect actions on a world wide scale. even if your not spiritual then you can talk about it in a individual since.. I dislike a lot of tv shows and movies because they just are not good for your mind with bloody grim outlooks that can get into your head if you watch to much plus don't even get me started on commercials.
 

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So let me ask you all this. What does it matter if the firmware has a "backdoor" when any device attached to the drive has full access to its contents. Considering the firmware can't do any communication outside of the hard drive itself, it's safe to assume that this doesn't enable anyone to simply read data. From a development and hardware perspective, I really think is another example of how people let stupid ideas run a muck. Firmware can't even edit main memory, forget sending data over a network to tell the NSA something.

Any fear in this is dumb because it's probably a simple a hard drive feature that some paranoid lunatic fancies as a NSA conspiracy. I suspect that most people need to calm down and need to understand how things work before getting their panties in a bunch about something that doesn't even give anyone access to the computer itself. To call this a "backdoor" is laughable to say the least and from a security standpoint doesn't concern me in any way, shape, or form.

It honestly saddens me that this even made it to TPU. What the hell is this, FOX News?
 
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I watched fox news once.. started pricing security systems and lining my roof with aluminum foil. came to my senses when I realized the foil would cost more than the security system.
 
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I prefer to think of the future with positivity and watch things that help with that.

Which is great so long as you are aware of what is happening... and *act*. I'm not trying to spread fear at all, just pointing out why it is really important that we not take our freedom. privacy, and prosperity for granted, and do what is necessary to keep it. The future I described is pretty much inevitable if we continue the way we have been. What would interrupt it that does not involve "magical thinking" or a preemptive disaster?

Fear has been a very effective tool lately to keep the masses confused and divided. I'm not sure how it works. Maybe it is via TV? I haven't watched TV in 25 years, so I don't know what is happening there. If I go to someone's house and it's on I try to get them to turn it off. It's *really* annoying once you become accustomed to not having it.
 
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sorry if I came off like you where trying to spread fear. I get more worried about the planet just dieing and not being able support life than everyone's rights being taken away. I don't really have much faith in people as a whole but I try.. I suppose if we do have a future coming with way less jobs to go around and robots everywhere then some woman need to stop popping out so many babies. I think maybe it was china that had a 2 kid limit for awhile.. not really sure what kind of thinking they backed it with but it seemed fine to me and even more so at the moment.
 

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Terrible article. It puts the two together without actually making the link. I'm sure the NSA does plenty of things but it's not the hard drive firmware that enabled the NSA to spy on these computers.

If you read the actual article, it has nothing to do with the firmware but rather a typical attack on eastern computer systems.
The group used a variety of means to spread other spying programs, such as by compromising jihadist websites, infecting USB sticks and CDs, and developing a self-spreading computer worm called Fanny, Kasperky said.

The wording in the article is tricky because all it really says it that the NSA attacked some people. By the way there was a hard drive thing that they think is linked to the NSA. Nothing conclusive here other than speculation being taken as fact. I suspect that Tiffany Wu doesn't know what she's talking about.

Stats 101: Correlation doesn't always imply causation.
 
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These are claims from a foreign country (Russian no less) about the USA and the NSA. I will trust statements/info about my country from my country. Thank you very much.

Bias?

I was planning on gettin 10 3.5inch hdd for my raid system, guess ill go hitachi now instead of western digital.

You lost me as customer WD, by by !

Hitachi GST almost certainly is affected if anyone is, as WD owns them now.

This doesn't sound like it's loaded at the factory though, but by malware reflashing your drive I think.

Any fear in this is dumb because it's probably a simple a hard drive feature that some paranoid lunatic fancies as a NSA conspiracy. I suspect that most people need to calm down and need to understand how things work before getting their panties in a bunch about something that doesn't even give anyone access to the computer itself. To call this a "backdoor" is laughable to say the least and from a security standpoint doesn't concern me in any way, shape, or form.

My understanding from reading about this is it isn't flashed at the factory, but flashed by companion malware that then opens a backdoor to your HD by flashing it and running it's own network access somewhere.
 
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They should prove it and wipe someones hard drive... sound like a conspiracy theory to me.....
 
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These are claims from a foreign country (Russian no less) about the USA and the NSA. I will trust statements/info about my country from my country. Thank you very much.
Bwahahahahaha, there's one born every minute.

"This particular piece of malware is delivered via modified hard drive firmware, and Kaspersky says that it’s compatible with nearly all major hard drive brands: Seagate, Western Digital, Samsung, you name it. Once it’s there, it’s nearly impossible to get rid of or even detect. Since it’s not taking up space on the hard drive’s platters, it can easily re-infect a system even after a drive has been fully formatted."

But wait, there's more: http://arstechnica.com/security/201...-nsa-hid-for-14-years-and-were-found-at-last/
 
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thanks for the article carring.. time to go off the grid :wtf:
 
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Firmware can't even edit main memory, forget sending data over a network to tell the NSA something.

The only reason I can see for someone to maliciously modify a hard drive firmware is to hide the malicious work being done on the hard disk by doing it as an extension of regular read/write operations - for avoiding av software and always causing reinfection with actual malware successfully (trojan horse style)... without editing main memory or sending data over network - just disk operations.

Or even better, imagine instead of infecting svchost.exe on the disk, you have a disk firmware that always returns infected svchost.exe when OS tries to read it.

... it does sound far fetched and I also have my doubts ... it's not that probable but it does seems possible if the hard drive factory security was compromised and firmware "enhanced".
 

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Hmmm, let us see... Kaspersky sells anti-malware, a/v, firewall, etc. software, to make a profit.
Possible scenario, create a story to revive the fears of people to increase sales?
Or, is there a new line of software that is about to hit the market that remedies/detects this firmware infection problem?
I'm just thinking out in print.:rolleyes:

Anyways, here is a Kaspersky Labs Daily Blog post that tries to calm some folks down: Indestructible malware by Equation cyberspies is out there – but don’t panic (yet)

I was outside and an acorn hit me in the head... then, I had a flashback to the story of "Chicken Little".o_O
 
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but the most interesting finding is the malware’s ability to reprogram the victim’s hard drives, making their “implants” invisible and almost indestructible.

Now this I could believe. Not infecting the PC at POST, but altering the firmware to hide reachable sectors. Still, something has to be active to access it.
 
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Now this I could believe. Not infecting the PC at POST, but altering the firmware to hide reachable sectors. Still, something has to be active to access it.

Probably the companion malware that installs the new firmware. I can buy that.

It also could infect a BIOS based MBR by simply intercepting MBR calls, similar to old floppy disk viruses, and reload itself via this means as a bootkit of sorts. A reinstall would not cure this, but as Kaspersky itself admits, is usually incredibly targeted when deployed. If you're not in Iran you probably don't have this. Even if you do have it, it's probably NOT being used.

Still, I eagerly await detection tools for this.
 
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With Putin on the verge of joining OPEC all of this is great news.
The USA has the power to stop hackers from stealing data and money. All the US companies and private individuals that have lost money should be getting refunds very soon.
This is great news. We should reverse the trend of people stealing from us and go on offensive so that we can do away with taxes. Lets take from others for a change. Despots will be replaced with Democracy.
Relief is on the way. I can hear all the 1's and 0's marching right back into our bank accounts now. Hell, I can
even hear them singing the national anthem while they are working.

The NSA needs your support.
 
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