Now that W10 is out, are you a W7 / W8 refusenik?

[rtwjunkie]

I did notice some thing kinda interesting, when i reinstalled Win7 for how ever many time's as it was at the point were you had to phone i did not have too it just activated without any bother at all.

Did not seem that it wanted to get updates until i did activate.

Some thing else i noticed my system is much faster now than it was with Win10 specially startup as i always got this delay were it seemed like it had a hard question and just sat their with the circles spinning or at the desktop like if it was playing some silly game what to load first.

So after setting up a GPT partition and telling the motherboard i have a compatible UEFI video card it was still slower lol, so screw it for now i will wait until next year to try it again and i know what the issue's are now so if i do only have 5 days left to test Win10 again i should know in a day easy .

No real DX10 games yet so no real need anyways, don't want to be a beta tester which is clearly what this is.

I noticed the W7 thing the other day on a system as well. It would not gather updates until it was activated. Seems MS is getting more strict.

 

[qubit]

I noticed the W7 thing the other day on a system as well. It would not gather updates until it was activated. Seems MS is getting more strict.

I'll second that, seen it too.

 

[yesyesloud]

Hey, I also had the video driver update black out and total system hang.

Two solutions:

1. Boot into safe mode, let DDU wipe your current drivers, then reboot normally. For some reason, the transition from generic drivers to the latest full video driver update works fine, only blinking the screen a couple of times instead of shooting the system into the void.

2. Block a particular driver update that your system hasn't performed yet/successfully.

 

[rtwjunkie]

So I put together a system out of mostly spare parts (Although I did purchase a CPU and motherboard) for testing W10, so as to not screw up any real systems that people actually use for you know, real stuff.

Installed W7, SP1 and then 863 updates later (I NEVER want to do that again), I get the GWX notification. I reserve my spot, and 24 hours later it's knocking on the door asking to download. So far so good.

After spending overnight downloading at a monstrously slow speed, I began the install yesterday afternoon. First of all, I think W8.1 spoiled me on how quickly an OS can install, because W10 took twice as long. Then it hung up after the "Hi" logo. I ctrl-alt-del to restart since it was totally locked up with a grey screen.

It gets past "Hi", and then says it's setting things up, blah, blah, blah. Um...yeah....not so much. Nothing happened until 30 minutes later it said "It's taking longer than we though this shit would take" (At least that's how I remember it, LOL). Of course 30 minutes of that meant something was wrong to anyone that's instllled Windows before. Locked up, mouse cursor frozen. I try Ctrl Alt Del again. No dice. Now it just grey screens. So, I hit PC restart button..

Starting up, it tells me it failed to start properly, and would I like to fix things? Of course I would. I first take option to startup repair. That didn't work. It said there was nothing there to repair. Ominous. I see a revert to previous state. Unsure of what that meant, either previous state of W10, which has still never proven it has started, or if that meant the W7 install. So, I opted for the system refresh, which I knew from 8/8.1 meant it should enter the install cycle again.

That worked! 35 minutes later, and some 5 hours after beginning, I actually got to a desktop with W10.. I am SO glad I decided to offer a sacrificial computer to W10, because otherwise I would have been violently angry (that's right, don't need video games to make one angry .)
Then it was time for bed. Further adventures to follow....

 

[R-T-B]

I HAVE DISABLED THE DRIVER UPDATING and this dumb OS updated the drivers anyway.

People seem to forget that the OS doesn't obey the GUI settings in regards to drivers.

It's amazing like that. I've been screaming about it and providing hacks and workarounds since day 1. This... shouldn't be the case. MS has my earned an eternal "WTF" from me on that front.

I currently run a WSUS server that filters driver updates. Obviously, this is not ideal.

 

[RejZoR]

I don't understand what was wrong with the updating in Windows 8.1 and early? It just worked. You could either have it in full auto or if you're an advanced user, per selection. I always update everything, but I prefer to review updates. If I see anything problematic on news sites, I skip those updates and I skip driver updates on driver to driver basis. I want some to update through Windows Update, but I prefer to do it myself for others with drivers from manufacturer directly. Never had a single problem with such udpating method. As soon as I hit Windows 10, all the crap from the past 15 years got condensed down to 3 days time...

 

[R-T-B]

I don't understand what was wrong with the updating in Windows 8.1 and early? It just worked. You could either have it in full auto or if you're an advanced user, per selection. I always update everything, but I prefer to review updates. If I see anything problematic on news sites, I skip those updates and I skip driver updates on driver to driver basis. I want some to update through Windows Update, but I prefer to do it myself for others with drivers from manufacturer directly. Never had a single problem with such udpating method. As soon as I hit Windows 10, all the crap from the past 15 years got condensed down to 3 days time...

It's microsoft putting on their rose tinted utopian glasses and thinking anything with a WHQL cert must have been quality tested.

This is not true for those of us who live in the real world, and it's biting everyone in the butt now.

 

[Vayra86]

WHQL... I have had consistently better luck with non-WHQL Nvidia drivers than the WHQL versions of it.

WHQL is a joke

 

[RejZoR]

It's microsoft putting on their rose tinted utopian glasses and thinking anything with a WHQL cert must have been quality tested.

This is not true for those of us who live in the real world, and it's biting everyone in the butt now.

Yeah well, Catalyst 15.7 is WHQL certified and absolutely DOESN'T work with my AMD E-450 APU even though it perfectly happily installs itself through Windows Update...

 

[Easo]

I am also not exactly sure why Windows did install AMD drivers, when I already had the only Win 10 drivers they have, aka 15.7.1...
To be fair, nothing changed, bad or good.

 

[R-T-B]

Yeah well, Catalyst 15.7 is WHQL certified and absolutely DOESN'T work with my AMD E-450 APU even though it perfectly happily installs itself through Windows Update...

Unfortunately you live in the real world. Microsoft would suggest you move to a Windows 10 fantasy land address. I would suggest you boycott the upgrade for now. I only haven't because I actually kinda enjoy tinkering to fix things, but this is by no means a ready to go scenario for an OS.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Continuing from post 179, I actually played just a touch with W10 on my scarificial extra computer, but only a bit. That 45 minutes though has done nothing to turn my dour attitude around.

After it started, I installed CoreTemp and Afterburner, then stepped away for a bit. Returning, I find it seemingly off. Turns out it went to sleep. I have NEVER had a computer go to sleep unless I set up the conditions for it. This is ridiculousness. to add insult to injury, it was 90% unresponsive to any keyboard or mouse input. So, Ctrl-Alt-Del, Restart. Upon restart, it barely gets to desktop, and suddenly it refuses to do anything. Completely locked up. Hard Restart follows.

After Hard restart, it suddenly shows during startup that it is installing updates. Really? Is that what locked it up? Goes through one more restart cycle as part of the updates and then finally I can sign in and go to desktop. Try to find power options. I discover they are not in the control panel, but in "Settings", which I dislike, btw. Indeed, Control Panel appears to be stripped bare...MS obviously don't want us in there. Tough, it's in the taskbar now. Got rid of all sleepy tendancies by the system, and then set to find out why the updates happened. Discovered the default position is to download and install "whenever the hell we feel like, so screw you!"

Tonight, I think I will actually try to install some games, see how that works out. Overall, on my two meetings with W10, I am more than pleased that it is running on a system I don't have any use for, or I would be really upset!

 

[rtwjunkie]

I've discovered I can't do the fast startup. I know it accomplishes this by hibernating in a hybrid manner, cutting startup time in half. However, I am absolutely unable to startnfrom that state without a long lockup. So I had to disable hiberfil, just to have a pc actually start up when the button is pushed. Ridiculous!

 

[qubit]

@rtwjunkie Sounds like W10 is a piece of <insert approprate 4 letter word> besides all that crappy privacy invading stuff it's got in it.

Guess they'll fix it in the next few months. Whatever.

 

[pigulici]

I am in the moment when on my Win 7 I frozen the update service, I am more scared by updates from M$ than by a virus...good job M$...my boss, at work, frozen all win 8 and 7 pc too, he don't wanna play russian roulette on his money...

 

[Tatty_Two]

Still sceptical here, seeing lots of mixed feedback so I am still a "wait a while and see how things pan" Win 7 user

 

[RejZoR]

I'm gonna stick with Windows 8.1 for few more months so that Microsoft fixes all the bullshit surrounding Windows 10. It has potential, but as it is currently, it's a total disaster. Mostly because of stupendous Windows Update and forced driver updates. How something as basic as this can totally ruin the WHOLE experience.

If updating crap was the same as it is on Windows 8.1, Windows 10 would be almost a total perfection. Instead they totally fucked it up. What the hell were all the insiders and testes doing for what, whole year? I just don't get it...

 

[AsRock]

Continuing from post 179, I actually played just a touch with W10 on my scarificial extra computer, but only a bit. That 45 minutes though has done nothing to turn my dour attitude around.

After it started, I installed CoreTemp and Afterburner, then stepped away for a bit. Returning, I find it seemingly off. Turns out it went to sleep. I have NEVER had a computer go to sleep unless I set up the conditions for it. This is ridiculousness. to add insult to injury, it was 90% unresponsive to any keyboard or mouse input. So, Ctrl-Alt-Del, Restart. Upon restart, it barely gets to desktop, and suddenly it refuses to do anything. Completely locked up. Hard Restart follows.

After Hard restart, it suddenly shows during startup that it is installing updates. Really? Is that what locked it up? Goes through one more restart cycle as part of the updates and then finally I can sign in and go to desktop. Try to find power options. I discover they are not in the control panel, but in "Settings", which I dislike, btw. Indeed, Control Panel appears to be stripped bare...MS obviously don't want us in there. Tough, it's in the taskbar now. Got rid of all sleepy tendancies by the system, and then set to find out why the updates happened. Discovered the default position is to download and install "whenever the hell we feel like, so screw you!"

Tonight, I think I will actually try to install some games, see how that works out. Overall, on my two meetings with W10, I am more than pleased that it is running on a system I don't have any use for, or I would be really upset!

Control Panel is in the right click start button. Most if not all win7 looking places can be gotten to one way or another without much effort at all.

Although one setting did piss me of finding the old way of changing the clock format and such but the old Win7 way is there too.

I've discovered I can't do the fast startup. I know it accomplishes this by hibernating in a hybrid manner, cutting startup time in half. However, I am absolutely unable to startnfrom that state without a long lockup. So I had to disable hiberfil, just to have a pc actually start up when the button is pushed. Ridiculous!

I tried that fast startup along with fastest startup ( ASRock mobo has 3 options ) and proved to be about the same and still win10 is slower than win7 start without all that crap lol. I even used a GPT partition and which to me only made putting Win7 back on the system a little more annoying lol.

I'm gonna stick with Windows 8.1 for few more months so that Microsoft fixes all the bullshit surrounding Windows 10. It has potential, but as it is currently, it's a total disaster. Mostly because of stupendous Windows Update and forced driver updates. How something as basic as this can totally ruin the WHOLE experience.

If updating crap was the same as it is on Windows 8.1, Windows 10 would be almost a total perfection. Instead they totally fucked it up. What the hell were all the insiders and testes doing for what, whole year? I just don't get it...

I decided the same thing, going wait until early next year, maybe there be a reason to then as well.

As for the AMD APU ordeal going though the same shit just not right in any way or form.

 

[Ruru]

Upgraded from 8.1 Pro to 10 Pro right after 10 was out, and there is no going back.

 

[Vayra86]

I have now decided I am waiting until the first workarounds surface for the Windows Update service and Securom-related stuff.

It will be there, eventually. Hopefully before my free upgrade is gone

 

[micropage7]

still waiting for further

its nice but i prefer wait for some months especially i have low connection, downloading many updates will be painful here

 

[Frick]

I've been thinking about it, and I never ever thought I would reach the conclusion that the privacy things actually are bothering me. Especially the network sharing thing, i've been adding _optout to networks left and right because in many cases it's just such a dumb idea.

That and forced updates and drivers. I never bother with updating drivers, it's just annoying (I mostly own pretty aged stuff and never really play new games) and pointless and more hazardous than not. Forced updates in general I understand (and for most users it shouldnt make a difference as updates are good anyway) but i would like some control. What I fear most is an "appification", meaning it'll be like Android where the app devs apparently have hordes of unemployed developers with nothing to do becase that weather app can't really be more than a weather app - because it's, you know, a weather app - so they redesign the UI every few months then spend the next few months fixing bugs and when the weather app finally is a functional weather app they redesign the UI because they have hordes of restless developers.

 

[qubit]

@Frick Agreed about the privacy issues. Can you please elaborate a bit on this _optout option as I want to use it, but don't quite get the context of where you use it?

"I never bother with updating drivers". Whut?!

"What I fear most is an "appification", meaning it'll be like Android where the app devs apparently have hordes of unemployed developers with nothing to do becase that weather app can't really be more than a weather app - because it's, you know, a weather app - so they redesign the UI every few months then spend the next few months fixing bugs and when the weather app finally is a functional weather app they redesign the UI because they have hordes of restless developers."

This made my head spin and is worth a thanks all on its own. I get the point though that they're updating for update's sake rather than providing genuine functional improvements. Sounds like that "new and improved" soap powder which is just the same as the old version that they keep peddling at the supermarket...

 

[R-T-B]

@rtwjunkie Sounds like W10 is a piece of <insert approprate 4 letter word> besides all that crappy privacy invading stuff it's got in it.

Guess they'll fix it in the next few months. Whatever.

Don't count on it. Fast startup has been around since Windows 8 and never works well for me.

It can be turned off from control panel power options, to be fair.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Don't count on it. Fast startup has been around since Windows 8 and never works well for me.

It can be turned off from control panel power options, to be fair.

See, my experience is totally different. Fast startup works great on two W8.1 machines, but locks up in W10.