Why AMD will perform better than NVIDIA in DirectX 12

[the54thvoid]

limited core and/or hbm supplys.
foundry struggling to catch up is probably the reason for 6m delay on fury and all those paper launches.

All the more reason to drop the expensive AIO and ship PCB's directly to the partner vendors. They already have concrete PCB parameters.
Although I know nothing about how AMD and Nvidia do these things!

 

[tabascosauz]

Eh, what's the point? Every time something like this happens, I rejoice for my 2 GCN 1.0 cards, realize that the real performance is happening at GCN 1.1, then I visit the actual comments thread and it's the same thing over...
...and over
...and over
...and over again.

Nvidia fanboys "Whatever, AMD's trash and although I have no reason to hate (dur, I have a GTX 750, dur) AMD is trash"
AMD fanboys "AMD wins, even though AMD's actually poor as trash right now and could use a real boost instead of some news that about 1% of users know about"

Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat. Every time, I hope that people start listening to each other. Every time, it doesn't happen.

@MxPhenom 216 I for some reason don't feel like naming names today. Not he-who-must-not-be-named-and-doesn't-actually-have-ears-or-eyes, not the one guy who shot back at me today with what he probably thought was a witty comeback, not even that other little monkey who signed up just to spew BS all over a thread. Too much monkeys throwing their s*** around, to quote Pagan Min, and I don't want to contribute to the s***storm (like, seriously, in about 3 hours he-who-must-not-be-named is going to come in here and try to make your head hurt again).

I'm curious as to why AMD seems to be shunning the majority of its AIBs by only having the Asus and Sapphire Furys.

 

[ne6togadno]

All the more reason to drop the expensive AIO and ship PCB's directly to the partner vendors. They already have concrete PCB parameters.
Although I know nothing about how AMD and Nvidia do these things!

problem isnt pcb but lack of gpu chips (as i see it). pcb manufacturiong and building vga card itself is trivial compared to acctual gpu (or cpu) chip manufacturing. and hbm+interposter thing makes it even harder.
when you dont have chips to ship it doesnt matter who will manufacture pcb and solder everything on it.

 

[RejZoR]

Fury X PCB's are still designed by partners, they are just restricted to reference design. Meaning they make the whole thing, but they have to stick to blueprints provided by AMD.

 

[ne6togadno]

Fury X PCB's are still designed by partners, they are just restricted to reference design. Meaning they make the whole thing, but they have to stick to blueprints provided by AMD.

not sure if all partners do it or only sapphir and power color build and resell them to other aibs but ya it is made over amd documentation.

 

[Ebo]

When dx12 becomes mainstream for pc games, things as of now dosent really matter. We(most) will have a new GFX anyway which is supporting dx12 much better than the ones we have today.

I dont really care about wich firm I support, i simply dosent have any loyalty in that direction. I just buy the stuff I want and at the time that I want it. I never think too much ahead, since we have new GFX cards almost 2 times every year.
I do my buy from my personal reason, and I dont care about 1-5 frames a second, as long as my GFX can handle the things I ask of it.

I know a lot of Nvidia guys and also some of my friends argue they are the best especially Maxwell due to preformance and they bash AMD about poor driver support. The truth is that Nvidia has had a LOT of driver problems during this summer where as AMD hasent, but thats just my opinion. Just count how many hotfix drivers Nvidia has released since May 1 2015.

They also say AMD's card uses sooooo much more power, well to me that dosent really matter, since the difference in a year is just about 50 dollars in power use. Do I care about 50 dollars on a yearly basis.....nah because if you have a relatively highend system like I have, 50 dollars is like farting to keep warm, it only works for 1 second or mabye 2.

I would never put much in a single game or test, for me you need so many that there becomes a pattern then you can judge.

In 2016 nvidia has Pascal, and AMD has Greenland out which both will be using HBM2(if were lucky) then we have something to compare, since hopefully there will be some games out thats only using dx12.

 

[Vayra86]

I am having a deja vu.

Headline:
AMD 'will'.... (insert random prediction)

Daily reality:
Nvidia reigns supreme.

I'm out, cya

 

[ne6togadno]

last weekend i was expoloring steam headlights and promotions and i was surpriced that from 10-12 titles i have explored about half of them was anounced with dx 12 support and most of them to be deliverd till end of this year.
non of them was major AAA title but still that's a lot of games with dx12 scheduled for this year (and i've only checked 10-12 of new titles). also very soon we can have big AAA game with dx12. with sp campain of star citizen schedueled for end of this year and promised mantle/dx12 support, if everything is on track, very soon we could have somthing to heavily smash our graphics hardwere with.

 

[RejZoR]

Well, most developers will quickly jump on DX12 because of obvious performance benefits. For which you don't need async shaders or any other fancy crap.

 

[Naito]

Well, most developers will quickly jump on DX12 because of obvious performance benefits. For which you don't need async shaders or any other fancy crap.

I'd imagine it'd be easier to port from console to PC going via the DX12 path too.

 

[RejZoR]

Dunno about that, but when such generic gains can be obtained, devs quickly jump on the features. If they require a lot of work for very specific hardly visible things, they tend to avoid them.

 

[AsRock]

I just see a performance boost for AMD GCN based cards, what actually worries me is if i buy a nVidia supported game if i should buy it. As we all know what nVidia is like.

Game company's should support both nVidia and AMD but chances of this happening is very unlikely. I know when a DX12 game is released and it's nVidia supported i be holding back a while to make sure i get what i pay for.

And to me this is not a nVidia V's AMD it's about AMD making GCN work better for their hardware and the only real example they can use is nVidia as they are not going to use Intels IGP lamo.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Ill wait for the next gen of NVIDIA and a W1zz review before I buy into some AMD marketing slides. With the track record AMD has with powerpoint I don't know how anyone takes them seriously.

 

[Steevo]

Ill wait for the next gen of NVIDIA and a W1zz review before I buy into some AMD marketing slides. With the track record AMD has with powerpoint I don't know how anyone takes them seriously.

Breath in the red smoke, hold it and remember, if you don't cough you can't get off.

Their vapor makes snoop dogg jealous.

 

[Dethroy]

I'm glad I didn't upgrade this generation (still holding onto my GTX 670).
I'm sure with the new archtitectures of both Pascal and Arctic Islands and the new manufacturing processes that they are built upon we will see quite an improvement - DX12 or not.

 

[arbiter]

That planning ahead (Hawaii) meant the cards that were firmly bound in DX11 failed to overturn Nvidia's GPU lead. That planning ahead has brought the company to its knees. I have no doubt at all AoS is far superior on AMD hardware but it almost seems like its become a massive PR push for things that have no current relevance.
It does seem Nvidia have a significant potential disadvantage and perhaps they are bluffing their way through on this gen but I don't for a second think AMD have played the game well over the past two years.
Even now there is no reason why they can't allow AIB's to sell air cooled Fury X cards, with more appeal than an AIO water cooler. AMD are still being arses. They may have planned ahead but very little they have done is bringing financial success.
New management, a funding injection and broader R&D would benefit the company and the consumer far more.

I don't think AMD planned 3-4 years in advance that async would be in DX12. They got very lucky it was added, which i believe near last minute when maxwell was pretty much finalized on its design so couldn't be added. Still to be determined how many games will even use it and how hard it is to code for it. By the time it could even matter could be 2-3 years from now which likely maxwell gpu's will be replaced. DX11 will still be dominate for least 1 year yet.

limited core and/or hbm supplys.

It was reported before fury was even launched that supplies would be limited for the card.

 

[nem]

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

For the love of Christmas. Heads out of backsides people.


AMD releases Mantle.
AMD gets together with Khronos and MS.
DX12 and Vulkan basically take Mantle and make it their standards.
AMD says Mantle is dead, and unsurprisingly suggest its features live on in DX12 and Vulkan.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...-absorbed-best-and-brightest-parts-of-mantle/



If you somehow believe AMD was "lucky" here you're an idiot. AMD made Mantle and their hardware symbiotic. Instead of the Nvidia douche-baggery, they allowed Khronos and MS to adopt their tech, and make it open sourced. AMD may have flaws, but they know that the Nvidia specialty stuff (Hairworks, etc..) is poison for the industry. As both MS and Khronos can jump all over the benefits AMD touts, their current hardware is going to perform better than Nvidia's on the new standard. THE NEW STANDARD THEY HELPED WRITE. Derp! Once Nvidia takes a crack at DX12, and we get to see a new process node in action, this will be worth talking about. Right now, it's like a 10 year old planning what they want to eat in 4320 days. There's no competition, no metric with which to gauge any competition, but plenty of bluster around numbers that don't connect to real world performance.


Seriously, look at the slide in the linked article.
1) New rendering technique - Async shaders anyone?
2) Increased draw cell count - This is the big stick that supposedly will make everything better in DX12.
3) Direct access to GPU features - Kinda fluff in my book, but combined with the consoles comments this basically is an admission that lower end hardware will see huge benefits by decreasing overhead.

Anyone else want to state the obvious? Maybe that water is wet, or perhaps the pope is catholic? These things border on tautology.

 

[anubis44]

I'd imagine it'd be easier to port from console to PC going via the DX12 path too.

The code from which uses... asynchronous shaders. Fact is, if a game really was optimized for the consoles, which are all AMD-powered, it will run better on Radeon cards in DX12, since DX12 is virtually identical to the API on the consoles. nVidia has been check-mated here. They probably haven't baked hardware asynchronous shaders into Pascal, either, and now they've got an obsolete GPU design in the stores right now (Maxwell), and an already obsolete GPU in their as-yet unreleased Pascal design. Looks pretty bad for nVidia no matter how you look at it under DX12.

 

[Xzibit]

The code from which uses... asynchronous shaders. Fact is, if a game really was optimized for the consoles, which are all AMD-powered, it will run better on Radeon cards in DX12, since DX12 is virtually identical to the API on the consoles. nVidia has actually been check-mated here. They probably haven't baked hardware asynchronous shaders into Pascal, either, and now they've got an obsolete GPU design in the stores right now (Maxwell), and an already obsolete GPU in their as-yet unreleased Pascal design. Looks pretty bad for nVidia no matter how you look at it under DX12.

Nvidias has money to sponsor console ports and add gameworks. If game devs do in fact take advantage of async compute. It would be logical Nvidia would spend money to sponsor "support" titles and add GameWorks to as many as they can.

 

[tabascosauz]

Nvidias has money to sponsor console ports and add gameworks. If game devs do in fact take advantage of async compute. It would be logical Nvidia would spend money to sponsor "support" titles and add GameWorks to as many as they can.

Especially when hardly anyone is even beginning to label the cleverly-marketed Gameworks as a blatantly anti-competitive affair. I guess a lot of gamers and reviewers out there really do think Gameworks makes the game work better. Crippling your Radeon card, so that you can play the game the way it's meant to be played.

The AMD celebration is a little premature.

 

[the54thvoid]

The code from which uses... asynchronous shaders. Fact is, if a game really was optimized for the consoles, which are all AMD-powered, it will run better on Radeon cards in DX12, since DX12 is virtually identical to the API on the consoles. nVidia has been broad-sided here. They probably haven't baked hardware asynchronous shaders into Pascal, either, and now they've got an obsolete GPU design in the stores right now (Maxwell), and an already obsolete GPU in their as-yet unreleased Pascal design. Looks pretty bad for nVidia no matter how you look at it under DX12.

Keep drinking the crazy juice. Maxwell is certainly not obsolete now, nor will it be when DX12 is everywhere. While it may not perform as well as Fiji, it'll still do the required work, perhaps only performing as well as AMD's Hawaii rebrands (if AoS is the benchmark for DX12).
To think Nvidia can't address Maxwell shortcomings in DX12 with Pascal is also quite naive. Trust in the big nasty team green and they'll get their act together.
Certainly AMD have a very bright DX12 future and they definitely have a great theoretical advantage over Nvidia now but again, time will tell what's really going to happen.

 

[arbiter]

Keep drinking the crazy juice. Maxwell is certainly not obsolete now, nor will it be when DX12 is everywhere. While it may not perform as well as Fiji, it'll still do the required work, perhaps only performing as well as AMD's Hawaii rebrands (if AoS is the benchmark for DX12).
To think Nvidia can't address Maxwell shortcomings in DX12 with Pascal is also quite naive. Trust in the big nasty team green and they'll get their act together.
Certainly AMD have a very bright DX12 future and they definitely have a great theoretical advantage over Nvidia now but again, time will tell what's really going to happen.

What did ya expect from someone uses AMD logo for their avatar. Pascal is far from done likely will have it. AMD future on DX12 looks good but I wouldn't Bank on it given AMD's track record of last few years of taking things that look to be good and turning it in to a turd (cough hawaii and Fiji Launches cough). I would bet money on Nvidia way before AMD.

 

[HumanSmoke]

I'd like to know for example, what upcoming titles will be utilising DX12, what company 'helps out the developers' and what the release date is.

Getting a list together might be a more worthwhile exercise than what is presently being argued. As far as I'm aware:

Fable Legends (Unreal Engine 4)
Gears of War Ultimate (Unreal Engine 3)
Ashes of the Singularity (Nitrous engine)
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (Dawn Engine)
Ark: Survival Evolved (Unreal Engine 4)
DayZ (Real Virtuality 3 engine)
ArmA 3 (Real Virtuality 3 engine)
Star Citizen (CryEngine 4)
Doom (Tech 6 engine)

You would think that FrostBite would patch DX11 games to DX12 in addition to new DX12 titles given their Mantle association, but I haven't heard anything concrete - just PR-speak from the developer.

 

[ValenOne]

Getting a list together might be a more worthwhile exercise than what is presently being argued. As far as I'm aware:

Fable Legends (Unreal Engine 4)
Gears of War Ultimate (Unreal Engine 3)
Ashes of the Singularity (Nitrous engine)
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (Dawn Engine)
Ark: Survival Evolved (Unreal Engine 4)
DayZ (Real Virtuality 3 engine)
ArmA 3 (Real Virtuality 3 engine)
Star Citizen (CryEngine 4)
Doom (Tech 6 engine)

You would think that FrostBite would patch DX11 games to DX12 in addition to new DX12 titles given their Mantle association, but I haven't heard anything concrete - just PR-speak from the developer.

Project Cars DX12 patch

Fable Legends uses Async
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided uses Async
Rise of the Tomb Raider uses Async (XBO 2015, PC version 2016)


EA DICE, DX12 news in spring.
https://twitter.com/gustavhalling/status/588730307232301057