Lack of Async Compute on Maxwell Makes AMD GCN Better Prepared for DirectX 12

[Aquinus]

What are you speaking about ?? What did I remove and what am I trying to change ?

This is the line which introduced apple:

He said nVidia is the Apple of. He wasn't talking about Apple. He went on to say (talking about nVidia):

they are evil, they are greedy, there is almost nothing you could like about them, but they make very good stuff, which works well and also performs well, so they win. If they would suck, nobody would buy their products for decades, the GPU market is not like the music industry, only a very small tech savy percentage of the population buys dedicated GPUs

Your only digging yourself a deeper hole...

 

[Sony Xperia S]

He said nVidia is the Apple of. He wasn't talking about Apple. He went on to say (talking about nVidia)

Really, I never knew and actually don't wanna know that this fruit the apple is so divine.

Seriously, how would I have known that ? When this is the first time I hear someone speaking like that ?

 

[Aquinus]

Really, I never knew and actually don't wanna know that this fruit the apple is so divine.

Seriously, how would I have known that ? When this is the first time I hear someone speaking like that ?

Then maybe you should learn to read before making assumptions about what people are saying. Considering this is not a thread about Apple, you should have been able to put one and one together to make two.

Remember how I said:

Your only digging yourself a deeper hole...

This is the nice way of me telling you to shut up and stop posting bullshit but, it appears that I needed to spell that out for you.

Well, that all still stands and is only even more relevant now.

 

[Sony Xperia S]

Remember how I said:



I am not in a hole, and I don't understand what exactly you are speaking about and how in hell you know what that person meant?

Are you threatening me or what?

My reading skills are ok. I am reading.
What I want to kindly ask you is to leave me alone without all the time analysing in a very negative way my posts and instead trying to respect my opinion.

 

[Aquinus]

I am not in a hole, and I don't understand what exactly you are speaking about and how in hell you know what that person meant?

I can read. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what he was saying.

My reading skills are ok. I am reading.

Then there is nothing further to discuss because I know English and I understood him just fine.

Are you threatening me or what?

No, just pointing out that you've been pulling the thread off topic because you didn't understand what someone else posted.

What I want to kindly ask you is to leave me alone without all the time analysing in a very negative way my posts and instead trying to respect my opinion.

Then maybe you should stay on topic like I said in the first place. If you want to be left alone, a public forum is not the place to be. Calling you out on BS is not persecution, it's called accountability.

 

[Captain_Tom]

I think NVIDIA just couldn't be bothered with driver implementation till now because frankly, async compute units weren't really needed till now (or shall I say till DX12 games are here). Maybe drivers "bluff" the support just to prevent crashing if someone happens to try and use it now, but they'll implement it at later time properly. Until NVIDIA confirms that GTX 900 series have no async units, I call it BS.

Yeah and how long did it take them to admit the 970 has 3.5GB of VRAM? Heck they still haven't fully fessed up to it.

 

[cadaveca]

Uh ,FYI guys, on reddit is a thread with an apparent AMD guy saying that NO GPU ON THE MARKET TODAY is fully DX12 compliant. So...

What AMD does, NVidia doesn't. Also, vice versa.

Now, about that rumour that you could use NVidia and AMD GPUs together in the same system... would that somehow overcome these "issues"?

 

[EarthDog]

It has 4GB of vram though... its just that the last .5GB are much slower.

 

[EarthDog]

Anyways, you guys are so mean. I can't comprehend how it's even possible that such people exist.



Yes, and Image quality CHECK.

Mean? How are we mean when we(I) shower you with facts? I like how you cherry pick the two good things (it was one actually) I mentioned, but completely disregard the rest yet still think its better.

Image quality? You need to prove that Sony...

You have your head shoved so far up AMD's ass you are crapping AMD BS human caterpillar style (THAT was the first mean thing I have said) and you don't even know it. Since TPU doesn't seem to want to perma ban this clown, I'm just going to put him on ignore. Have fun with this guy people. I can't take the nonsense anymore and risk getting in trouble myself.

 

[RejZoR]

Interesting read on Async Shaders and GTX 900 series:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/3j5e9b/analysis_async_compute_is_it_true_nvidia_cant_do/

EDIT:
Removed the info, read it yourself...

 

[Frick]

Interesting read on Async Shaders and GTX 900 series:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/3j5e9b/analysis_async_compute_is_it_true_nvidia_cant_do/

EDIT:
Removed the info, read it yourself...

tl;dr "we still don't know lol"

 

[RejZoR]

Well, from what I can see so far, NVIDIA is capable of doing async compute, just more limited by the queue scheduler. Still need to read further...

 

[FordGT90Concept]

That's called brainwashing. I have never seen any technological competetive advantages in apple's products compared to the competition. Actually, the opposite - they break like shit.

For the record, I just installed my PowerColor PCS+ 290X yesterday and first impressions are excellent. FurMark (100% load) only took it to 64C.

 

[ValenOne]

Well, from what I can see so far, NVIDIA is capable of doing async compute, just more limited by the queue scheduler. Still need to read further...

Maxwellv2 is not capable of concurrent async + rendering without incurring context penalties and it's under this context that Oxdie made it's remarks.

Uh ,FYI guys, on reddit is a thread with an apparent AMD guy saying that NO GPU ON THE MARKET TODAY is fully DX12 compliant. So...

What AMD does, NVidia doesn't. Also, vice versa.

Now, about that rumour that you could use NVidia and AMD GPUs together in the same system... would that somehow overcome these "issues"?

Intel Xeon 18 CPU core per socket running DirectX12 reference driver is the full DirectX12 renderer.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Direct3D has feature levels. 12.0 is basic DirectX 12 support which AMD GCN, Intel's iGPU, and NVIDIA all support. Maxwell has 12.1 support officially meaning the cards won't freak out if they see 12.1 instructions but all NVIDIA cards that support 12.0 will take a performance penalty when the software uses async compute. It supports it but it does a really bad job at supporting it.

I'm curious if Intel's iGPU takes a performance penalty when using async compute too.

 

[Sony Xperia S]

For the record, I just installed my PowerColor PCS+ 290X yesterday and first impressions are excellent. FurMark (100% load) only took it to 64C.

Excellent news ! It is great to hear you have a new card.

Why do you stress her under FurMark ?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Make sure it is stable and the temperatures are reasonable. I'm only keeping it installed for about a week then I'm going back to 5870 until I can get my hands on a 6700K. I need to make sure I don't have to RMA it.

 

[the54thvoid]

I can read. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what he was saying.

Then there is nothing further to discuss because I know English and I understood him just fine.

No, just pointing out that you've been pulling the thread off topic because you didn't understand what someone else posted.

Then maybe you should stay on topic like I said in the first place. If you want to be left alone, a public forum is not the place to be. Calling you out on BS is not persecution, it's called accountability.

lol, I thought "why the hell is @Aquinus triple posting and wtf are these people talking about" then realised - ah it's him. I can't see their posts - still blocked to me - thankfully it seems. I agree with @EarthDog though - should be banned - simple as that.

 

[BiggieShady]

Maxwellv2 is not capable of concurrent async + rendering without incurring context penalties and it's under this context that Oxdie made it's remarks.

That is a claim presented at the beginning of the article. Through the end, if you read it, it is proven in benchmark that it is not true (number of queues horizontally and time spent computing vertically - lower is better)

Maxwell is faster than GCN up to 32 queues, and it evens out with GCN to 128 queues, where GCN has same speed up to 128 queues.
It's also shown that with async shaders it's extremely important how they are compiled for each architecture.
Good find @RejZoR

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Fermi and newer apparently can handle 31 async commands (jumps up at 32, 64, 96, 128) before the scheduler freaks out. GCN can handle 64 at which point it starts straining. GCN can handle far more async commands than Fermi and newer.

The question is how does this translate to the real world? How many async commands is your average game going to use? 31 or less? 1000s?

 

[Ikaruga]

Uh ,FYI guys, on reddit is a thread with an apparent AMD guy saying that NO GPU ON THE MARKET TODAY is fully DX12 compliant. So...

What AMD does, NVidia doesn't. Also, vice versa.

This what I said in this thread a day earlier than that reddit post, but some people are in write only mode and don't actually read what others are saying.

There is no misinformation at all, most of the dx12 features will be supported by software on most of the cards, there are no GPU on the market with 100% top tier dx12 support (and I'm not sure if the next generation will be one, but maybe). This is nothing but a very well directed market campaign to level the fields, but I expected more insight into this from some of the TPU vets tbh (I don't mind it btw, AMD needs all the help he can get anyways).

 

[BiggieShady]

The question is how does this translate to the real world? How many async commands is your average game going to use? 31 or less? 1000s?

The answer to that question is same as the answer to this question: How many different kinds of parallel tasks beside graphics can you imagine in game? Let's say that you don't want to animate leaves in the forest using only geometry shaders but you want real global wind simulation, and you use compute shader for that. Next you want wind on the water geometry, do you go with new async compute shader or append to existing one? As you can see the real world number for simultaneous async compute shaders is how many different kinds of simulations are we going to use: hair, fluids, rigid bodies, custom GPU accelerated AI ... all that would benefit from being in different async shader each, rather than having huge shader with bunch of branching (no branch prediction in gpu cores, even worse - gpu cores almost always execute both if-else paths)
All in all I'd say 32 is more than enough for gaming ... there might be benefit of more in pure compute

most of the dx12 features will be supported by software on most of the cards, there are no GPU on the market with 100% top tier dx12 support (and I'm not sure if the next generation will be one, but maybe)

Point is good and all but let's not forget how we are here (mostly) very well used to difference between marketing badges on colorful boxes and spotty support for a new API. Major game engine developers will find a well supported feature subset on both architectures and use them ... hopefully every major engine will have optimized code paths for each architecture and automatic fallback to DX11. Let's try keeping out fingers crossed for a couple of years.

In august adoption of win10 with dx12 gpu owners went from 0% to 16.32% ... hmm ... using full blown dx12 features - maybe in a year

 

[truth teller]

the info on that reddit thread is not really the truth.

the main goal of having async compute units is not the major parallelization of workload, but having the gpu compute said workload while still performing rendering tasks, which nvidia hardware can't do (all the news floating around seeems to indicate so, also the company hasnt addressed the issue in any way so that pretty much admitting fault).

leave that reddit guy with its c source file with cuda preprocessor tags alone, its going nowhere

 

[Ikaruga]

Point is good and all but let's not forget how we are here (mostly) very well used to difference between marketing badges on colorful boxes and spotty support for a new API. Major game engine developers will find a well supported feature subset on both architectures and use them ... hopefully every major engine will have optimized code paths for each architecture and automatic fallback to DX11. Let's try keeping out fingers crossed for a couple of years.

In august adoption of win10 with dx12 gpu owners went from 0% to 16.32% ... hmm ... using full blown dx12 features - maybe in a year

I agree and did not forget at all, but my conclusion were a little different, as I wrote it somewhere here earlier. Anyways, most of the Multiplatform games will mostly likely pick the features which are fast and available on the major consoles, but this it not the end of the world, you will still be able to play those games, perhaps you will need to set 1-2 sliders to high instead of ultra in the options to get optimal performance. Other titles might use gameworks or even a more direct approach exclusive to the PC, and those will run better on Nvidia and on AMD depending on the path they will take.

the info on that reddit thread is not really the truth.

the main goal of having async compute units is not the major parallelization of workload, but having the gpu compute said workload while still performing rendering tasks, which nvidia hardware can't do (all the news floating around seeems to indicate so, also the company hasnt addressed the issue in any way so that pretty much admitting fault).

I don't think that's correct. Nvidia has a disadvantage with async compute on the hardware level indeed, but we don't know the performance impact if that's properly gets corrected with the help of the driver/CPU (and properly means well optimized here), and there are other features what the Nvidia architecture does faster, and engines using those might easily gain back what they lost with the async compute part.

We just don't know yet.

 

[eidairaman1]

NV been cons for so long