Dune Case is the Mac Pro Lookalike That Everyone Can Have

[R-T-B]

What's worse is that copying the look only legitimizes Apple's worthless crap.

To jump off the apple hating bus momentarily, I did at least like the look of the old G5 chassis. But today, bleh, it's not only underpowered, but uninspired as well IMO.

 

[TheGuruStud]

To jump off the apple hating bus momentarily, I did at least like the look of the old G5 chassis. But today, bleh, it's not only underpowered, but uninspired as well IMO.

I agree. It's big and sleek for a box. If only they weren't worried about 400% markup and a UI so terrible that I yearn for Windows 3.1 in comparison.

I built hackintoshes for people that just had to have OSX. They never used it and I ended up wiping it years later. Dual booting to win7 was just better (and that's sad).

 

[Ubersonic]

It'll be interesting to see what happens to this if Apple feels like it infringes on their Mac Pro design patent.

I'm pretty sure ThermalFake proved that you can steal whatever you like in case design as long as it's not completely identical lol.

 

[Caring1]

I think it's cute, and with legs mounted on the side it can double as a fan heater under a desk.

 

[Frick]

What's worse is that copying the look only legitimizes Apple's worthless crap.

The Mac Pro is very far from being worthless. It's an excercise in engineering goodness.

 

[trump]

i pledged 169$ for 1 case at 3 hours ago!
anybody know can i put my 750 evga in to that ?

 

[EarthDog]

i pledged 169$ for 1 case at 3 hours ago!
anybody know can i put my 750 evga in to that ?

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

The Mac Pro is very far from being worthless. It's an excercise in engineering goodness.

Don't they overheat all the time when you load the GPUs+CPU? I don't think that is very good engineering.

 

[Captain_Tom]

God that would be a bitch to cable manage

Yeah but who cares?! Once it is built, it is built. This isn't meant to be for bench-marking at a tech site.

 

[cdawall]

Yeah but who cares?! Once it is built, it is built. This isn't meant to be for bench-marking at a tech site.

I care I end up assembling these for people lol

 

[trump]

Yeah but who cares?! Once it is built, it is built. This isn't meant to be for bench-marking at a tech site.

Don't they overheat all the time when you load the GPUs+CPU? I don't think that is very good engineering.

are you kidding me ? there is cable duct .for keeping the cables .
and there isnot any issue about tempture , the top caps made with full aluminum and there is so cold because the fresh air sucked from the bottom side to the top side , and 140mm fan pull up the hot air to the out.
the direction is just to the top . the psu section ( bottom side ) is spilted to the two section and mainboards air is not mixed to the GPU section. bottom of the mainboard and GPU is mesh ! so they always breath fresh air !
both of the GPU and mainbaord part have fresh air from the bottom side and the bottom side is mesh .
hope i solved your issue .

and fresh air is came from the bottom side

and here is panels view.

and

and here is how the case breathing

please look at the mesh at the bottom side of the mainboard

 

[Frick]

Don't they overheat all the time when you load the GPUs+CPU? I don't think that is very good engineering.

They do, if you load them with prime95 and Furmark at the same time. But for realistic loads that doesn't seem to happen, and from what I've read they are surprisingly quiet. But that depends obviously, there are probably workloads they don't handle well at all. I've always wanted a Mac Pro because they are sexy machines, and the trash can is no different IMO.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

They do, if you load them with prime95 and Furmark at the same time. But for realistic loads that doesn't seem to happen, and from what I've read they are surprisingly quiet. But that depends obviously, there are probably workloads they don't handle well at all. I've always wanted a Mac Pro because they are sexy machines, and the trash can is no different IMO.

I was looking for some of those reviews, but google just spammed me with MacBook Pros...

The system was pulling an average of 410W at that point, with peak power draw at 429W.

Not bad TBF. I suppose the fact that it is a straight through the heatsink type system gives it an edge on many of the more conventional SFX cases. It is almost the same effect as water cooling, since you are forcing the airflow through the heatsink and immediately out of the case, like what you would do with a radiator. Laptops are quite similar actually... You'd be surprised how much power you can get rid of with a tiny heatsink if you are feeding it with fresh air...

I think the design of the fan on the Mac Pro is pretty good, it's basically a large radius centrifugal fan, means it doesn't need to run at stupid RPMs like a laptop fan, but has the noise advantage due to the much smaller blade separation and almost no blade-tip noise. IIRC they also spent a lot of effort in reducing the bearing noise.

 

[chlamchowder]

The Mac Pro is very far from being worthless. It's an excercise in engineering goodness.

I like that Apple tried something new. They took advantage of their vertical integration to pack a lot of computing power into a small form factor, and in that sense it's a very nice engineering achievement. But ignoring gripes about appearance (since that's subjective), I'm less impressed with:

• Lack of internal expansion - you have to add whatever you need using USB and Thunderbolt. That's just asking for a mess of cables that many users would prefer to hide inside their case.
• Going off the previous point, you only get one small SSD for internal storage, so external drives (and cables to them) will almost definitely happen.
• GPUs are weaker than desktop equivalents (D300 = underclocked 7870, D500 = cut down and underclocked 7950, D700 = underclocked 7970). And for both gaming and compute, one strong GPU is easier to work with than two weaker ones.
• GPUs can't be upgraded. Since GPUs tend to get outdated faster than the rest of the system (CPUs tend to remain relevant for quite a while), I consider that a big minus.
• From the Anandtech review, rather high temperatures under load. I would not want my GPU hanging out in the upper 80s range. And having the CPU above 90 C means there's not much room left before throttling.

That said, they did an excellent job with controlling noise with a small case, which is always a challenge.

 

[cdawall]

I would not want my GPU hanging out in the upper 80s range

Upper 80's for a GPU is fine...most GPU's run in that range. The cards don't throttle until 110-120C...

 

[chlamchowder]

Upper 80's for a GPU is fine...most GPU's run in that range. The cards don't throttle until 110-120C...

I've seen Nvidia cards using the same 28 nm TSMC process set throttling temperatures in the low to mid 80s. The GTX 780/Titan throttle at 80 C, the 780/980 Ti throttle at 83 C. Tahiti cards (7870/7950/7970) also don't get anywhere close to the high 80s.

The card probably won't die, but it would still make me uncomfortable because higher temperatures mean less headroom for higher ambient temperatures or dust. And I'm not sure where the 110-120 C figure you got comes from. Even the second-gen 290/290x cards don't hit 110-120 C and throttle way before they get there (around 95 C it looks like).

(edit, grammar)

 

[PP Mguire]

I've seen Nvidia cards using the same 28 nm TSMC process set throttling temperatures in the low to mid 80s. The GTX 780/Titan throttle at 80 C, the 780/980 Ti throttle at 83 C. Tahiti cards (7870/7950/7970) also don't get anywhere close to the high 80s.

The card probably won't die, but it would still make me uncomfortable because higher temperatures mean less headroom for higher ambient temperatures or dust. And I'm not sure where the 110-120 C figure you got comes from. Even the second-gen 290/290x cards don't hit 110-120 C and throttle way before they get there (around 95 C it looks like).

(edit, grammar)

Nvidia cards fan ramp when they hit 84c and if that doesn't keep it under control it lowers boost clock. On the stock cooler when I was feeling brave I saw my Titan Xs hit 90c while maintaining a clock of 1392. I'd say that's not throttling.

 

[chlamchowder]

Nvidia cards fan ramp when they hit 84c and if that doesn't keep it under control it lowers boost clock. On the stock cooler when I was feeling brave I saw my Titan Xs hit 90c while maintaining a clock of 1392. I'd say that's not throttling.

It is possible to increase the temperature limit with overclocking software.

But I feel like Nvidia sets the default limit to 80/84 C (depending on the card) before dropping boost clocks for a reason. We don't know exactly why (it could be because leakage/power consumption goes way too high at higher temperatures), but one possibility is that reliability or lifespan takes a hit. Otherwise, they could just let it get hotter and advertise higher performance with lower fan speeds.

Going back to the Mac Pro, I'd still rather not see GPU temperatures in the high 80s right out of the box. Dust and/or higher ambient temperatures will only make it go higher. And going back to this dune case, I hope there's enough airflow for the graphics card. Open cooler cards might have a difficult time and end up re-using their own hot exhaust.

 

[PP Mguire]

It won't go higher unless the dust is caked on. They're designed thermally to run up to and at a certain temp before ramping the fan up then compensating for temps in other ways like explained before. This has been de facto for a while now.

Open cooler cards might have a difficult time and end up re-using their own hot exhaust

The design theoretically is made to exhaust that hot air out so they don't.

 

[chlamchowder]

It won't go higher unless the dust is caked on. They're designed thermally to run up to and at a certain temp before ramping the fan up then compensating for temps in other ways like explained before. This has been de facto for a while now.


The design theoretically is made to exhaust that hot air out so they don't.

You misunderstand. The cards will get hotter until the target maximum temperature is reached, after which clock speeds are lowered if the fan can't keep the GPU from getting hotter. That's mainly what I'm concerned about - hitting the throttling point. I do not want to pay for a chip that can run at 1000 MHz (or whatever the boost clock is), and then see it hold itself back because of thermal constraints.

Furthermore, the cards I've seen have a default fan curve that does not exceed a certain speed no matter what, unless you manually set the fan speed through overclocking software. They throttle or drop boost clocks once the target maximum temperature is reached. For the Mac Pro, according to the Anandtech review the maximum fan speed (and there is only one case fan that cools every component) is just below 2000 RPM. Even when components throttle (as shown in the stress test), the fan does not run faster.

So unless the GPUs in the Mac Pro have a very high throttle point, I'd be worried about dropping performance due to thermal constraints if cooling capability is hampered by dust or high ambient temperatures. And if the throttle point is very high (>90 C), I'd be concerned about component lifespan. Other Tahiti and Pitcairn chips do not get anywhere near as hot.

 

[PP Mguire]

You misunderstand. The cards will get hotter until the target maximum temperature is reached, after which clock speeds are lowered if the fan can't keep the GPU from getting hotter. That's mainly what I'm concerned about - hitting the throttling point. I do not want to pay for a chip that can run at 1000 MHz (or whatever the boost clock is), and then see it hold itself back because of thermal constraints.

Furthermore, the cards I've seen have a default fan curve that does not exceed a certain speed no matter what, unless you manually set the fan speed through overclocking software. They throttle or drop boost clocks once the target maximum temperature is reached. For the Mac Pro, according to the Anandtech review the maximum fan speed (and there is only one case fan that cools every component) is just below 2000 RPM. Even when components throttle (as shown in the stress test), the fan does not run faster.

So unless the GPUs in the Mac Pro have a very high throttle point, I'd be worried about dropping performance due to thermal constraints if cooling capability is hampered by dust or high ambient temperatures. And if the throttle point is very high (>90 C), I'd be concerned about component lifespan. Other Tahiti and Pitcairn chips do not get anywhere near as hot.

You misunderstand me I guess, the chip boosts and warms until that point then the fans ramp up to reduce temps and only will the card drop boost if it can't keep within a certain threshold. If it can't do that then and only then will the card get warmer before dropping clocks. This is for Nvidia though, and AFAIK AMD is a bit different in how they work it. Furthermore, I would suspect they have a different setup for the Mac Pro altogether.

As to component lifespan, not really much to worry about. As was quoted before, these components are technically capable of running around 100C. I have a 280 that still works that ran around 87c it's whole life just because something was messed up with the contact on the cooler. Basically max temps and throttle points are set for any given amount of extended time but if it's not 24/7 the lifespan of the card isn't really reduced unless something happens physically. Considering the chips in the Mac Pro are AFAIK mobile chips they're designed, built, and meant to run hot for a long time just like laptops.

In the case of the OP case at hand, the cooling solutions on AIB cards going into that slot are way better than the setup that's designed in the Mac Pro and laptops. Just something to think about.

 

[chlamchowder]

Furthermore, I would suspect they have a different setup for the Mac Pro altogether. ...

As to component lifespan, not really much to worry about. ...

In the case of the OP case at hand, the cooling solutions on AIB cards going into that slot are way better ....

Either way, clocks will drop if the fans can't keep the GPU from exceeding a certain temperature. But yes, we don't know how the Mac Pro behaves with regards to throttling. Nvidia does list the maximum GPU temperature for many of their GPUs (92 C for my 980 Ti, for example), but I haven't been able to find similar info for AMD cards. Can you provide a link to where you got the "around 100 C" or "110-120 C" figures? I've been searching for a while and came up dry.

The contact on the cooler issue is an example of what I'd be concerned about with temperatures going so high. Metal expands slightly when heated, and contracts again when cooled. That could cause issues with contact, and over time metal fatigue could result in more serious issues (i.e. cracks). That's why you'd want a low difference between idle and load temperatures.

I don't think the Mac Pro chips are mobile chips, at least from looking at Techpowerup's GPU database. The desktop HD 7870 and Mac Pro D300 are both listed as Pitcairn, while the mobile 7970M (which has a similar core config) is listed as Wimbledon. Similarly the D500 and D700 are listed as Tahiti, which is what the desktop 7970/7950 are called.

But then I have doubts about the database's accuracy too. The D500 is clocked lower than the 7950 and has a more cut down core configuration, but has a TDP of 274 W - 74 W higher than the 7950's 200 W TDP. How does that make sense? I doubt that 20 MHz higher memory clock on the D500 is responsible for an over 74 W power increase. The 7870 XT has a similar core configuration (compared to the D500), but has an even lower TDP of 185 W.

I agree that AIB cooling solutions will be better in a large case with good airflow - my doubt is with whether the conditions in the Dune case will play well with open cooler cards.

 

[PP Mguire]

i have question about OC
buddy im not huge gamer
i want to run audio/video software like premier/sonar/photoshop
i want to buy i5 6600
and my question is there :
do i need to overclock ram memory ?
do i need to OC on the cpu too ?
and finally if your answer is " yes " so can i do them in Dunecase ?

You'll want to post in the overclock section to not clutter this thread m8. I will say this, if you get the 6600 and not the K version you'll need one of the ASRock boards recently listed in the news section, and even with their external clock generator it's a gamble how long you'll be able to OC the non K chip without Intel striking the hammer of god down.

Either way, clocks will drop if the fans can't keep the GPU from exceeding a certain temperature. But yes, we don't know how the Mac Pro behaves with regards to throttling. Nvidia does list the maximum GPU temperature for many of their GPUs (92 C for my 980 Ti, for example), but I haven't been able to find similar info for AMD cards. Can you provide a link to where you got the "around 100 C" or "110-120 C" figures? I've been searching for a while and came up dry.

The contact on the cooler issue is an example of what I'd be concerned about with temperatures going so high. Metal expands slightly when heated, and contracts again when cooled. That could cause issues with contact, and over time metal fatigue could result in more serious issues (i.e. cracks). That's why you'd want a low difference between idle and load temperatures.

I don't think the Mac Pro chips are mobile chips, at least from looking at Techpowerup's GPU database. The desktop HD 7870 and Mac Pro D300 are both listed as Pitcairn, while the mobile 7970M (which has a similar core config) is listed as Wimbledon. Similarly the D500 and D700 are listed as Tahiti, which is what the desktop 7970/7950 are called.

But then I have doubts about the database's accuracy too. The D500 is clocked lower than the 7950 and has a more cut down core configuration, but has a TDP of 274 W - 74 W higher than the 7950's 200 W TDP. How does that make sense? I doubt that 20 MHz higher memory clock on the D500 is responsible for an over 74 W power increase. The 7870 XT has a similar core configuration (compared to the D500), but has an even lower TDP of 185 W.

I agree that AIB cooling solutions will be better in a large case with good airflow - my doubt is with whether the conditions in the Dune case will play well with open cooler cards.

The Mac Pro is basically all custom so the design of the board looks MXM but they could be desktop chips with a different bios. It's hard to say and I don't have hands on with the device so couldn't tell you first hand. Only educated guesses.

As to the heat expanding the metal, not much really to worry about. I have cards that have lasted a long time overclocked without issue, even ones with dinky little heatsinks. I think you're overthinking the issue there in regards to all that. I mean sure the technicality of it is true, but these pieces are made to last a long time. In regards to the thermal properties and the capabilities, it's just known through the tech community. If you think about it, laptop chips have a higher TJMax because they have much smaller coolers to expel all that heat. Desktop chips are configured to throttle at lower temperatures but they can take the same amount of heat before any real damage occurs. So back to overthinking it, hardware is overdesigned and you really have to push a ton of volts and overclock to seriously degrade the life of hardware. Even then, it's not by much unless you physically damage the piece. I have an i5 750 that I ran at -48c 24/7 for about 6 months pushing 1.6v through and it's still kicking like I did nothing to it. Same goes for much older pieces I overclocked like my Pentium 1 and 2. If you stick to stock clocks and keep your hardware cleaned on a regular basis without any extras happening (like a PSU dying throwing every volts out) you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

I really don't think heat would be a problem for aftermarket cooled cards. I think if anything the heat from the CPU would be more of a concern than the GPU, but that's just my opinion based on the design drawings.

 

[chlamchowder]

The Mac Pro is basically all custom so the design of the board looks MXM but they could be desktop chips with a different bios. It's hard to say and I don't have hands on with the device so couldn't tell you first hand. Only educated guesses.

As to the heat expanding the metal, not much really to worry about. I have cards that have lasted a long time overclocked without issue, even ones with dinky little heatsinks. ... Desktop chips are configured to throttle at lower temperatures but they can take the same amount of heat before any real damage occurs. So back to overthinking it, hardware is overdesigned and you really have to push a ton of volts and overclock to seriously degrade the life of hardware.

I really don't think heat would be a problem for aftermarket cooled cards. I think if anything the heat from the CPU would be more of a concern than the GPU, but that's just my opinion based on the design drawings.

With overclocking, I've had a different experience. I overclocked a GT 740M (GK208) from 1058 to 1189 MHz. That lasted for a good year, before the GPU stopped being stable at those clocks. I started getting random crashes, and dropping the GPU back to stock clocks fixed it. Under load that GT 740M never exceeded 80 C. I also overclocked a GT 730 (GF108) by about 20% (forget the exact clock offset). Six months later it stopped being stable too, and had to be dropped back to stock. Again temperatures were nothing out of the ordinary. It did hit 80-81 C once or twice iirc, but not for very long. I never increased the voltage on either card

Hardware usually has generous tolerances and Mac Pro GPUs will keep working even at very high temperatures. I had a laptop where the CPU regularly went to 99 C and throttled, because HP laptop cooling is hilariously poor, and it never died. But I'm still not impressed by the Mac Pro's cooling. The AMD 7950 stock blower with the default fan curve will keep the card at or below 80-81 C. Similarly, enthusiast CPU coolers will keep >100 W CPUs below 90 C.

 

[cdawall]

I've seen Nvidia cards using the same 28 nm TSMC process set throttling temperatures in the low to mid 80s. The GTX 780/Titan throttle at 80 C, the 780/980 Ti throttle at 83 C. Tahiti cards (7870/7950/7970) also don't get anywhere close to the high 80s.

The card probably won't die, but it would still make me uncomfortable because higher temperatures mean less headroom for higher ambient temperatures or dust. And I'm not sure where the 110-120 C figure you got comes from. Even the second-gen 290/290x cards don't hit 110-120 C and throttle way before they get there (around 95 C it looks like).

(edit, grammar)

Lowering from boost clocks isn't throttling. I am talking throttling, flat line 300mhz 2D clocks is throttling stepping out of boost is not. All more dust means is it will step out of boost faster.

With overclocking, I've had a different experience. I overclocked a GT 740M (GK208) from 1058 to 1189 MHz. That lasted for a good year, before the GPU stopped being stable at those clocks. I started getting random crashes, and dropping the GPU back to stock clocks fixed it. Under load that GT 740M never exceeded 80 C. I also overclocked a GT 730 (GF108) by about 20% (forget the exact clock offset). Six months later it stopped being stable too, and had to be dropped back to stock. Again temperatures were nothing out of the ordinary. It did hit 80-81 C once or twice iirc, but not for very long. I never increased the voltage on either card

Hardware usually has generous tolerances and Mac Pro GPUs will keep working even at very high temperatures. I had a laptop where the CPU regularly went to 99 C and throttled, because HP laptop cooling is hilariously poor, and it never died. But I'm still not impressed by the Mac Pro's cooling. The AMD 7950 stock blower with the default fan curve will keep the card at or below 80-81 C. Similarly, enthusiast CPU coolers will keep >100 W CPUs below 90 C.

I have 7950's the upper card runs in the 90's the lower in the 80's they have been for years. Those are full fledged with heatpipe coolers and dual fans, way more cooling are than the mac pro. Neither card throttles and have been running like this for a while now. Say thank you to crossfire in a matx config. Stop thinking about the temps as being too high and remember these components are guaranteed by apple, so they have done way more research than you can likely wrap your head around. 80C is NORMAL for a GPU.