Intel Core i7-7700K "Kaby Lake" Processor Detailed

[PP Mguire]

I didn't say anything about not needing more than 4 cores. I said that users that do aren't mainstream by Intel's defined product stack, they are HEDT users, which are on another socket. That stands for likely several years yet. Intel wants these users to use different products for a reason; it allows them to have a higher power draw, since mainstream platform is about low power and integrated GPUs. Intel cannot currently fit a 6-core processor with an iGP in a low enough power budget to call it mainstream(All Intel mainstream chips have iGP). Maybe in a few years they can, but that also depends on software usage. Maybe pushing VR will help that, but I doubt it.

They could, except each generation they want to up clock speeds (and add more GPU power) that keep the TDP floating between 80 and 100w. With Broadwell pushing the HEDT stack to 10 cores (and presumably Skylake-E pushing to 12) they could easily achieve this with Canonlake but they don't want to. Why do that if people are happy with 4 cores and make excuses to stay there?

If that's the argument everyone needs a 2P xeon workstation with 10 cores a pop I guess.

My argument being exactly the opposite due to cost.

You keep going on with your bad self...

I'm in a conference call that has nothing to do with me. What better way to pass the time than idle banter on TPU?

 

[cadaveca]

They could, except each generation they want to up clock speeds (and add more GPU power) that keep the TDP floating between 80 and 100w. With Broadwell pushing the HEDT stack to 10 cores (and presumably Skylake-E pushing to 12) they could easily achieve this with Canonlake but they don't want to. Why do that if people are happy with 4 cores and make excuses to stay there?

Because most users are happy enough with their cell phone to access the internet. Intel simply wants to provide a similar experience on a larger screen, and software doesn't give any reason to use more than 4 cores to do so. Nor does software used by the majority of businesses big and small around the globe need more than a quadcore, which is even overkill in most instances. Intel makes products they can sell, and they do very well at it, posting billions in sales in every quarter (13.8 B in Q1 2016). While you might question what they do, their profits dictate when they shift how they do business, as it was recently announced when they planned to lay off a bunch of people from their PC division (12000 people, or 10% of their workforce).

Make no mistake about it; the current decline in PC sales is 100% due to cell phones having internet access and the ability to play and edit videos and pictures.

 

[PP Mguire]

Because most users are happy enough with their cell phone to access the internet. Intel simply wants to provide a similar experience on a larger screen, and software doesn't give any reason to use more than 4 cores to do so. Nor does software used by the majority of businesses big and small around the globe need more than a quadcore, which is even overkill in most instances. Intel makes products they can sell, and they do very well at it, posting billions in sales in every quarter (13.8 B in Q1 2016). While you might question what they do, their profits dictate when they shift how they do business, as was recently announced when they planned to lay off a bunch of people from their PC division (12000 people, or 10% of their workforce).

I don't question what they do, they literally have said "we don't really care if people will continue to purchase the product for refresh". In other words mocking the people who want to believe quite literally what you just said. There's plenty of software that will use more than 4 cores, businesses are mainly the ones that utilize said software. Was the hospital your wife worked at using Medhost software? All machines there basically have everything done for them via VM which is hosted by a shit ton of servers at their home base. Definitely uses a lot of power. I know a muffler shop that even uses a 6 core older 1366 Xeon for CAD. That's a ghetto off the wall run of the mill muffler shop of all places and they were recently asking for more power. It's ok to bury your head in the sand, but don't think others want to do the same.

 

[cdawall]

My argument being exactly the opposite due to cost.

Well if cost is prohibitive I guess they are getting 4 cores. Sounds like a mainstream user to me.

I don't question what they do, they literally have said "we don't really care if people will continue to purchase the product for refresh". In other words mocking the people who want to believe quite literally what you just said. There's plenty of software that will use more than 4 cores, businesses are mainly the ones that utilize said software. Was the hospital your wife worked at using Medhost software? All machines there basically have everything done for them via VM which is hosted by a shit ton of servers at their home base. Definitely uses a lot of power.

I just setup the local hospital down here. They use dell thin clients in the offices and the doctors walk around with Ipads. Imaging rooms use mid range dell workstations with AMD graphics cards and quad core xeons. Not a single complaint about speed.

I know a muffler shop that even uses a 6 core older 1366 Xeon for CAD. That's a ghetto off the wall run of the mill muffler shop of all places and they were recently asking for more power. It's ok to bury your head in the sand, but don't think others want to do the same.

So they use a CPU slower than a 6700K for CAD. Excellent sounds like a perfect time to give them a 6700K and a CAD card.

 

[PP Mguire]

Well if cost is prohibitive I guess they are getting 4 cores. Sounds like a mainstream user to me.

Sounds like somebody wants to be stuck on mainline 4 core desktop processors. Congrats, but others don't. Cost is prohibitive when you're talking triple the cost to get 2 more cores. The exact debate here from the enterprise standpoint.

I just setup the local hospital down here. They use dell thin clients in the offices and the doctors walk around with Ipads. Imaging rooms use mid range dell workstations with AMD graphics cards and quad core xeons. Not a single complaint about speed.

Imaging rooms don't require a ton of CPU power. Give them a while, they'll be squawking. Bud of mine just left Medhost because he said hospital employees are hard to deal with if something goes down or machines are running slow because the hospital is too cheap to upgrade.

So they use a CPU slower than a 6700K for CAD. Excellent sounds like a perfect time to give them a 6700K and a CAD card.

Sure, I'll send you his Paypal address so you can fund that. I'll let you drive up to Euless to overclock it for him too.

 

[cdawall]

Sounds like somebody wants to be stuck on mainline 4 core desktop processors. Congrats, but others don't. Cost is prohibitive when you're talking triple the cost to get 2 more cores. The exact debate here from the enterprise standpoint.

There is no demand or there would be systems that fit the build. That's how supply and demand works. The physical motherboard and CPU cost next to nothing additional so that would put this on system builders to offer these things. Obviously there is a very small market that needs these items hence how they don't sell them.

Imaging rooms don't require a ton of CPU power. Give them a while, they'll be squawking. Bud of mine just left Medhost because he said hospital employees are hard to deal with if something goes down or machines are running slow because the hospital is too cheap to upgrade.

People as a whole are hard to deal with and have no concept of speed. Throw an SSD in a 5 year old Core i5 system and most medical "professionals" will be as happy as can be.

Sure, I'll send you his Paypal address so you can fund that. I'll let you drive up to Euless to overclock it for him too.

So what does he want? Free shit to just fall from the sky? 6700K, 5820K doesn't matter all costs about the same if he buys parts and assembles. Hell if he lives close to microcenter it's all of $120 to have them do it and stand behind the work.

 

[PP Mguire]

There is no demand or there would be systems that fit the build. That's how supply and demand works. The physical motherboard and CPU cost next to nothing additional so that would put this on system builders to offer these things. Obviously there is a very small market that needs these items hence how they don't sell them.

There was no demand for consumer quads either, and this convo seems like dejavu when I wanted a 940be over my E8400. Now everybody has a quad and thinks there's no place for a hex.

People as a whole are hard to deal with and have no concept of speed. Throw an SSD in a 5 year old Core i5 system and most medical "professionals" will be as happy as can be.

Do a 10 hour layover waiting on a migration and you'll hear all kinds of complaints. These are people complaining about thin clients, can't exactly put an SSD in there and call it a day.

So what does he want? Free shit to just fall from the sky? 6700K, 5820K doesn't matter all costs about the same if he buys parts and assembles. Hell if he lives close to microcenter it's all of $120 to have them do it and stand behind the work.

Wasn't the point to begin with.

If nobody needs more than 4 cores then why have a 5930k? Why not go with the faster 6700k? You obviously don't have a need for it with that kind of mindset. I max out all 12 threads on my 3960x every single weekend rendering videos and that's just one task.

 

[cdawall]

There was no demand for consumer quads either, and this convo seems like dejavu when I wanted a 940be over my E8400. Now everybody has a quad and thinks there's no place for a hex.

There is plenty of places for more cores or faster quads. Normal system use isn't one of them.

Do a 10 hour layover waiting on a migration and you'll hear all kinds of complaints. These are people complaining about thin clients, can't exactly put an SSD in there and call it a day.

Who is waiting this long? Thin clients I sold were i5 quads plenty of power for pretty much every single task they run. Hell one of the local offices just uses fucking acer 11.6" 2:1's with pentium quads. Not a single complaint from them either, except when they purchased a set of Dell's that lasted all of a week.

Wasn't the point to begin with.

Then what was the point that his ancient ass 1366 system was old? Having 6 cores isn't doing anything for it when a current gen quad is faster.

If nobody needs more than 4 cores then why have a 5930k? Why not go with the faster 6700k? You obviously don't have a need for it with that kind of mindset. I max out all 12 threads on my 3960x every single weekend rendering videos and that's just one task.

And? Mainstream users aren't rendering videos every weekend hence why there is a HEDT and mainstream socket. If you want HEDT then buy it? There isn't even a price difference right now or projected into the future.

Actually better option want intel to increase performance more than 5% a generation? Donate an engineer to AMD to give them a reason, or donate to a software engineer that makes normal user software that needs it. I rarely see my 4770 exceed 1.2ghz during normal day to day usage. That's with typical 10-15 tabs open between IE and chrome, not to mention multiple data transfers, and all the other random crap I am to lazy to close out.

 

[Mindweaver]

So, a $390 chip isn't mainstream, but a $350 chip is?????

Nope, I would say a non "k" x6 would be a nice mainstream CPU for 279-299 and still offer the K series. The "K" informs the builder that this cpu will accept an overclock which would make it an enthusiast cpu. It's like I'm trying to talk to people that aren't into pc like myself... My wife always tells me when I go over someones head; example: "Hey honey they have no idea what your talking about.. They don't know what a processor is in a computer, nor this thermal compound that you speak of that's between the heatsink and the processor?". I think I'm having an out of body TPU experience.. You guys are really Sales guys and you have done something with my people!

I need to go eat lunch... Okay while I'm gone, I need someone to post in here why it's not important to worry about a $100 dollar difference or heck a $50 difference or that getting something more for your money doesn't really matter.

 

[cdawall]

Nope, I would say a non "k" x6 would be a nice mainstream CPU for 279-299 and still offer the K series. The "K" informs the builder that this is cpu will accept an overclock which would make it an enthusiast cpu. It's like I'm trying to talk to people that aren't into pc like myself... My wife always tells me when I go over someones head; example: "Hey honey they have no idea what your talking about.. They don't know what a processor is in a computer, nor this thermal compound that you speak of that's between the heatsink and the processor?". I think I'm having an out of body TPU experience.. You guys are really Sales guys and you have done something with my people!

I need to go eat lunch... Okay while I'm gone, I need someone to post in here why it's not important to worry about a $100 dollar difference or heck a $50 difference or that getting something more for your money doesn't really matter.

Buy on sale it costs the same.

Right now

5820K is $319 at MC and the board is $30 off, that puts the GB X99 UD3P at $144 AMIR.
6700K is $319 at MC and the board is $30 off, that puts the Asrock Z170 extreme 7 at $159 AMIR (cheapest 4 way sli/xfire so matching spec board)

 

[cadaveca]

I need to go eat lunch... Okay while I'm gone, I need someone to post in here why it's not important to worry about a $100 dollar difference or heck a $50 difference or that getting something more for your money doesn't really matter.

I use my Surface Pro3 quite a bit; it's handy and portable, and I can steam games to it via STEAM. I offset the higher cost of a HEDT by power savings using the Surface for regular mundane tasks like posting in the forum.

I still don't own a cell phone, so I use my Surface for most things people use their cell phone for, and then some, thanks to the larger screen. Dang thing gets pretty hot when I play in CAD.

 

[Mindweaver]

Buy on sale it costs the same.

Right now

5820K is $319 at MC and the board is $30 off, that puts the GB X99 UD3P at $144 AMIR.
6700K is $319 at MC and the board is $30 off, that puts the Asrock Z170 extreme 7 at $159 AMIR (cheapest 4 way sli/xfire so matching spec board)

I didn't realize MC was mainstream... Also, the fact that both of those will be out dated when the 7700 drops.

I use my Surface Pro3 quite a bit; it's handy and portable, and I can steam games to it via STEAM. I offset the higher cost of a HEDT by power savings using the Surface for regular mundane tasks like posting in the forum.

I still don't own a cell phone, so I use my Surface for most things people use their cell phone for, and then some, thanks to the larger screen. Dang thing gets pretty hot when I play in CAD.

I like my surface pro3 as well. but the cpu could use more cores and be faster for less money..

 

[cdawall]

I didn't realize MC was mainstream... Also, the fact that both of those will be out dated when the 7700 drops

And the price point will stay the same for the 6800k as well.

 

[Mindweaver]

And the price point will stay the same for the 6800k as well.

At this point cdawall I don't know where you are going with this stance or your points? I think now I'm just here for the post count, but just so I'm clear you're agreeing with me that a "k" variant is an enthusiast cpu and they are priced for that reason? and that you demand an x6 successor to x4 as being the new mainstream processor, no?

 

[cdawall]

At this point cdawall I don't know where you are going with this stance or your points? I think now I'm just here for the post count, but just so I'm clear you're agreeing with me that a "k" variant is an enthusiast cpu and they are priced for that reason? and that you demand an x6 successor to x4 as being the new mainstream processor, no?

I could care less what Intel puts on 115x it's a poverty socket as far as I'm concerned the land of quads and down.

Intel sells a non k series 6 core it's called xeons and they are still unlocked.

 

[EarthDog]

I didn't realize MC was mainstream... Also, the fact that both of those will be out dated when the 7700 drops.


I need to go eat lunch... Okay while I'm gone, I need someone to post in here why it's not important to worry about a $100 dollar difference or heck a $50 difference or that getting something more for your money doesn't really matter.

You can lead a horse to water as they say...

We all want something more for less, but, the market(consumers) doesn't remotely NEED such a thing. What you (royal "you") seem to have an issue with is Capitalism. Sorry that businesses are there to make a profit. Sorry there is little competition in this segment to DRIVE more improvements and cheaper costs.

It really is whining and complaining about you (again royal "you") not being able to/want to afford a CPU with more cores. I mean, ignore the fact that the difference is less than 10% on an entire system (again talking consumer level, what that CPU and this thread is about - that enterprise discussion was, to me, a straw man argument).

 

[Mindweaver]

You can lead a horse to water as they say...

We all want something more for less, but, the market(consumers) doesn't remotely NEED such a thing. What you (royal "you") seem to have an issue with is Capitalism. Sorry that businesses are there to make a profit. Sorry there is little competition in this segment to DRIVE more improvements and cheaper costs.

It really is whining and complaining about you (again royal "you") not being able to/want to afford a CPU with more cores. I mean, ignore the fact that the difference is less than 10% on an entire system (again talking consumer level, what that CPU and this thread is about - that enterprise discussion was, to me, a straw man argument).

and yet I (royal "I") sit over here with a 5820k. /class

 

[cdawall]

and yet I (royal "I") sit over here with a 5820k. /class

So you were able to leave mainstream and spend the millions of extra dollars to buy hedt?

 

[Mindweaver]

So you were able to leave mainstream and spend the millions of extra dollars to buy hedt?

I did - post count +1

 

[EarthDog]

and yet I (royal "I") sit over here with a 5820k. /class

So what's your horse in the race outside of post count ? Just wanted it cheaper?

 

[cdawall]

So what's your horse in the race outside of post count ? Just wanted it cheaper?

That's kinda what I'm thinking. My board was free so I can't go much cheaper.

 

[EarthDog]

I had to check to see if I was at OCN with the way this thread went!!!

 

[Mindweaver]

So what's your horse in the race outside of post count ? Just wanted it cheaper?

I just want to go fast! Wow,.. I've coded so much today my eyes are crossing.. lol Hence when I rarely post in any thread, but when I see the caliber of people contributing in a thread that I'm interested in, I join. You guys have given me another perspective. I've just got the itch... I'm just ready for that feeling again were I had a 286 and started using a 386 or picked up a p100 or when I jumped from a p200 to a PII 400... K6... PIII 600 to a PIII 933 or to 1ghz Thunderbird.. Or Athlon XP Thoroughbred, to a Athlon XP Barton, to a P4... or to an E6300 for 189 bucks that overclocked to the extreme chip on air... I can go on or go back before the 286 or to my i7 970 which I find to be still a good chip for it's time.. I have a whole box of cpus in trays... but to sum it up that feeling of excitement for a new CPU. I've not had that feeling in awhile with the latest CPU's.

I guess pushing more cores won't do it at the moment. I know Intel will sit in a lane and not innovate.. They.. we need AMD to push the pace. I hope Zen is good... What is the max processors, x16 on paper?

 

[Grings]

Buy on sale it costs the same.

Right now

5820K is $319 at MC and the board is $30 off, that puts the GB X99 UD3P at $144 AMIR.
6700K is $319 at MC and the board is $30 off, that puts the Asrock Z170 extreme 7 at $159 AMIR (cheapest 4 way sli/xfire so matching spec board)

Holy shit, £319 for a 5820k here!!! 6700k is £279 or so, and a decent z170 is £100-150, a decent x99 is £180-250
even on sale i have only seen 5820's drop to £290, and 6700k at £260

It seems here in the UK you are looking at at least an extra £100 to go hedt still

last time i checked US prices it wasnt worth me shipping stuff, next time i buy something big i'll have to check again

 

[Mindweaver]

Holy shit, £319 for a 5820k here!!! 6700k is £279 or so, and a decent z170 is £100-150, a decent x99 is £180-250
even on sale i have only seen 5820's drop to £290, and 6700k at £260

It seems here in the UK you are looking at at least an extra £100 to go hedt still

last time i checked US prices it wasnt worth me shipping stuff, next time i buy something big i'll have to check again

Yea, I wish I had a Micro Center near me... Hey guys can I renege wanting a mainstream x6 processor for a Micro Center near me!