• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Editorial AMD Actively Promoting Vulkan Beyond GPUOpen

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,288 (7.53/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
Vulkan, the new-generation cross-platform 3D graphics API governed by the people behind OpenGL, the Khronos Group, is gaining in relevance, with Google making it the primary 3D graphics API for Android. AMD said that it's actively promoting the API. Responding to a question by TechPowerUp in its recent Radeon Technology Group (RTG) first anniversary presser, its chief Raja Koduri agreed that the company is actively working with developers to add Vulkan to their productions, and optimize them for Radeon GPUs. This, we believe, could be due to one of many strategic reasons.

First, Vulkan works inherently better on AMD Graphics CoreNext GPU architecture because it's been largely derived from Mantle, a now defunct 3D graphics API by AMD that brings a lot of "close-to-metal" API features that make game consoles more performance-efficient, over to the PC ecosystem. The proof of this pudding is the AAA title and 2016 reboot of the iconic first-person shooter "Doom," in which Radeon GPUs get significant performance boosts switching from the default OpenGL renderer to Vulkan. These boosts aren't as pronounced on NVIDIA GPUs.



Second, and this could be a long shot, but the growing popularity of Vulkan could give AMD leverage over Microsoft to steer Direct3D development in areas that AMD GPUs are inherently good at - these include asynchronous compute, and tiled-resources (AMD GPUs benefit due to higher memory bandwidths). AMD has been engaging aggressively with game studios working on AAA games that use DirectX 12, and thus far AMD GPUs have been either gaining or sustaining performance better than NVIDIA GPUs, when switching from DirectX 11 fallbacks to DirectX 12 renderers.

AMD has already "opened" up much of its GPU IP to game developers through its GPUOpen initiative. Here, developers will find detailed technical resources on how to take advantage of not just AMD-specific GPU IP, but also some industry standards. Vulkan is among the richly differentiated resources AMD is giving away through the initiative.

Vulkan still has a long way to go before it becomes the primary API in AAA releases. To most gamers who don't tinker with advanced graphics settings, "Doom" still works on OpenGL. and "Talos Prinicple," works on Direct3D 11 by default, for example. It could be a while before a game runs on Vulkan out of the box, and the way its special interest group Khronos, and more importantly AMD, promote its use, not just during game development, but also long-term support, will have a lot to do with it. A lot will also depend on NVIDIA, which holds about 70% in PC discrete GPU market share, to support the API. Over-customizing Vulkan would send it the way of OpenGL. Too many vendor-specific extensions to keep up drove game developers to Direct3D in the first place.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.87/day)
There is a bit of a falacy there saying it inherently works better on AMD because it was largely derived from Mantle. Mostly because that's not true. It works better on AMD because AMD has been pursuing closer to the metal API for years. They built GCN architecture (hardware) around it and have been enhancing it for years. They made architecture that is inherently better at operating via such API's in general, be it Mantle, Vulkan or DX12. DirectX 12 has nothing to do with Mantle apart from core idea and behold, AMD again way better at it than NVIDIA.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.44/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
I want a push to Vulkan for the simple reason it works on other operating systems too (Linux/Mac). That said, what I've read from developers is that making Vulkan games is much more work than DirectX 12 games because Vulkan does less for you. Developers have to do more of their own optimizations.


GCN cards get worse framerates on Vulkan in Tales Principle compared to D3D11.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
18,584 (2.68/day)
System Name AlderLake
Processor Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans
Memory 32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2
Display(s) 23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p
Case Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window
Audio Device(s) Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless
Keyboard RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock
For now I'm happily playing my games in DX11 windows 8.1.:)
Let's see what we have in 2 years from now....
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
872 (0.15/day)
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
System Name Ryzen/Laptop/htpc
Processor R9 3900X/i7 6700HQ/i7 2600
Motherboard AsRock X470 Taichi/Acer/ Gigabyte H77M
Cooling Corsair H115i pro with 2 Noctua NF-A14 chromax/OEM/Noctua NH-L12i
Memory G.Skill Trident Z 32GB @3200/16GB DDR4 2666 HyperX impact/24GB
Video Card(s) TUL Red Dragon Vega 56/Intel HD 530 - GTX 950m/ 970 GTX
Storage 970pro NVMe 512GB,Samsung 860evo 1TB, 3x4TB WD gold/Transcend 830s, 1TB Toshiba/Adata 256GB + 1TB WD
Display(s) Philips FTV 32 inch + Dell 2407WFP-HC/OEM/Sony KDL-42W828B
Case Phanteks Enthoo Luxe/Acer Barebone/Enermax
Audio Device(s) SoundBlasterX AE-5 (Dell A525)(HyperX Cloud Alpha)/mojo/soundblaster xfi gamer
Power Supply Seasonic focus+ 850 platinum (SSR-850PX)/165 Watt power brick/Enermax 650W
Mouse G502 Hero/M705 Marathon/G305 Hero Lightspeed
Keyboard G19/oem/Steelseries Apex 300
Software Win10 pro 64bit
well, they should! the important part here i think is the fact that google made it their default API for android.
 

the54thvoid

Super Intoxicated Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
13,105 (2.39/day)
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar B650 (wifi)
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
Memory 32GB Kingston Fury
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX4070ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 M.2 1TB / Samsumg 960 Pro M.2 512Gb
Display(s) LG 32" 165Hz 1440p GSYNC
Case Asus Prime AP201
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply be quiet! Pure POwer M12 850w Gold (ATX3.0)
Software W10
I wrote a huge post and thought, "why bother? I'll just be seen as a fanboy." :roll:

Now no-one will know my mind mastery.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
1,019 (0.21/day)
Location
Porto
System Name No name / Purple Haze
Processor Phenom II 1100T @ 3.8Ghz / Pentium 4 3.4 EE Gallatin @ 3.825Ghz
Motherboard MSI 970 Gaming/ Abit IC7-MAX3
Cooling CM Hyper 212X / Scythe Andy Samurai Master (CPU) - Modded Ati Silencer 5 rev. 2 (GPU)
Memory 8GB GEIL GB38GB2133C10ADC + 8GB G.Skill F3-14900CL9-4GBXL / 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC4000
Video Card(s) Asus R9 Fury X Strix (4096 SP's/1050 Mhz)/ PowerColor X850XT PE @ (600/1230) AGP + (HD3850 AGP)
Storage Samsung 250 GB / WD Caviar 160GB
Display(s) Benq XL2411T
Audio Device(s) motherboard / Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro + Front panel
Power Supply Tagan BZ 900W / Corsair HX620w
Mouse Zowie AM
Keyboard Qpad MK-50
Software Windows 7 Pro 64Bit / Windows XP
Benchmark Scores 64CU Fury: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11269229 / X850XT PE http://www.3dmark.com/3dm05/5532432
What about OpenGL to Vulkan as with Doom, where the RX 480 pulls ahead of the GTX 1060 significantly?

It is the same, the problem with AMD's drivers as always been overhead, which prevents them from taking the best out of their gpu's. Amd usually needs much more Tflops per fps than nvidia. In low overhead api's like doom vulkan the cards fps rank roughly the same according to their compute power afaik.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
1,125 (0.36/day)
System Name Team Crimson
Processor AMD FX 8320
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3
Cooling Corsair H80i
Memory DDR3 16GB Crucial Ballistix Sport
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ RX 480 8GB RAM
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Crucial MX300 275GB
Display(s) AOC 2752H 27" 1080p
Case NZXT Source 220 Windowed
Power Supply Antec Earthworks 650W
Mouse Logitech M510/ AGPTEK T-90 Zelotes
Keyboard Logitech K360/ iBUYPOWER TTC RED Switch Mechanical
Software Windows 8.1 64 Bit
For now I'm happily playing my games in DX11 windows 8.1.:)
Let's see what we have in 2 years from now....

What Nvidia has done is ignore the new APIs until they become an issue for their customers.
Despite the planned road map for Volta in 2017 which will probably scale with DX12 and Vulkan, they released an unscheduled "new" architecture in Pascal, which is really Maxwell 3.0 that doesn't improve with these APIs.
Nvidia's philosophy is simply sell their customers a whole new architecture when the deficiencies become too problematic, making the previous generation obsolete in a very short time.
But as long as their loyal fans slavishly buy their product at their command, they will continue to be short-sighted about building their hardware for up-comming technical developments.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
17,865 (2.87/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Black 4TB | WD Blue 6TB
Display(s) ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) | Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair AX1600i
Mouse Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard Yes
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Let's hope AMD can give NVIDIA a good kicking with this and open up competition once more. I'm sick of paying inflated top of the range prices for NVIDIA cards and they're not even the top of the range.

A graphics API that works reliably and with high performance across operating systems, especially Windows and Linux would be fantastic, but I suspect that vested interests won't let that happen.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
10,826 (1.73/day)
Location
Austin Texas
System Name stress-less
Processor 9800X3D @ 5.42GHZ
Motherboard MSI PRO B650M-A Wifi
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory 64GB DDR5 6400 1:1 CL30-36-36-76 FCLK 2200
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 FE
Storage 2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s) Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s) Yes
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse DeathadderV2 X Hyperspeed
Keyboard 65% HE Keyboard
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
What Nvidia has done is ignore the new APIs until they become an issue for their customers.
Despite the planned road map for Volta in 2017 which will probably scale with DX12 and Vulkan, they released an unscheduled "new" architecture in Pascal, which is really Maxwell 3.0 that doesn't improve with these APIs.
Nvidia's philosophy is simply sell their customers a whole new architecture when the deficiencies become too problematic, making the previous generation obsolete in a very short time.
But as long as their loyal fans slavishly buy their product at their command, they will continue to be short-sighted about building their hardware for up-comming technical developments.

Nvidia's philosophy is "let's make the fastest card on the most popular APIs right now". And that's what they do. AMD simply can't do that so their PR department harps on whatever advantage they can spin and they do that over and over again.

They did the same thing with dx 11.1 and mantle and honestly it's just PR and false hope for their customers. By the time these architecture advantages become material we will already have two more arch releases.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2004
Messages
385 (0.05/day)
Location
Belgium, Leuven
Processor I7-6700
Motherboard ASRock Z170 Pro4S
Cooling 2*120mm
Memory G.Skill D416GB 3200-14 Trident Z K2 GSK
Video Card(s) Rx480 Sapphire
Storage SSD Samsung 256GB 850 pro + bunch of TB
Case Antec
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster Z
Power Supply be quit 900W
Mouse Logitech G5
Keyboard Logitech G11
Reason to buy 480 over 1060 increased. ;)

Thou, isn´t Android based on LINUX?
So would this choice not be the only logical one for google?
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
155 (0.05/day)
System Name Purple Stuff
Processor Intel Core I7-8700K @ 5.0 Ghz
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix Z370-F Gaming
Cooling NZXT Kraken X62
Memory Corsair Vengence 16 GB DDR4 @ 3600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus ROG Strix GTX 1080 TI
Storage Samsung EVO 960 500 GB, HDD 4TB WD Black, SSD Crucial MX400 1TB
Display(s) Acer Predator XB271HU 27" x2
Case Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass
Power Supply Seasonic Focus + Platinum 850 W
Mouse Steelseries Rival 700
Keyboard Razer Blackwidow Chroma V2
Software Win 10 Pro
False hope. Gets 30fps more than crap support for DX11/OGL on same hardware... What kind of strong weed are you smoking?


There I fixed that for you. If AMD would get their drivers on par with DX11/OGL you wouldn't see that huge of "leap" in performance. Nobody said AMD's cards are bad the software that's behind them up is utter trash. If memory servers right this is just typical nVidia business DX11 was horrible for them while ATI had the crown. Within 2 gens tables turned. I'm all for rooting for the underdog but when you put jack into RnD you get jack back and this is what AMD is doing (because they can't support it financially). Furthermore why wouldn't they promote it? It's less work for them trying to patch drivers up.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
1,125 (0.36/day)
System Name Team Crimson
Processor AMD FX 8320
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3
Cooling Corsair H80i
Memory DDR3 16GB Crucial Ballistix Sport
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ RX 480 8GB RAM
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Crucial MX300 275GB
Display(s) AOC 2752H 27" 1080p
Case NZXT Source 220 Windowed
Power Supply Antec Earthworks 650W
Mouse Logitech M510/ AGPTEK T-90 Zelotes
Keyboard Logitech K360/ iBUYPOWER TTC RED Switch Mechanical
Software Windows 8.1 64 Bit
This is where the fruits of indiscipline come into play.
As long as gamers are willing to get Win 10 in order to use DX 12, and as long as the majority of gamers are willing to pay the obscene prices of these Paxwell cards, nothing will change.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
13,171 (2.80/day)
Location
Concord, NH, USA
System Name Apollo
Processor Intel Core i9 9880H
Motherboard Some proprietary Apple thing.
Memory 64GB DDR4-2667
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon Pro 5600M, 8GB HBM2
Storage 1TB Apple NVMe, 4TB External
Display(s) Laptop @ 3072x1920 + 2x LG 5k Ultrafine TB3 displays
Case MacBook Pro (16", 2019)
Audio Device(s) AirPods Pro, Sennheiser HD 380s w/ FIIO Alpen 2, or Logitech 2.1 Speakers
Power Supply 96w Power Adapter
Mouse Logitech MX Master 3
Keyboard Logitech G915, GL Clicky
Software MacOS 12.1
There I fixed that for you. If AMD would get their drivers on par with DX11/OGL you wouldn't see that huge of "leap" in performance. Nobody said AMD's cards are bad the software that's behind them up is utter trash. If memory servers right this is just typical nVidia business DX11 was horrible for them while ATI had the crown. Within 2 gens tables turned. I'm all for rooting for the underdog but when you put jack into RnD you get jack back and this is what AMD is doing (because they can't support it financially). Furthermore why wouldn't they promote it? It's less work for them trying to patch drivers up.
nVidia does a lot of work in their driver to accelerate API calls in things like OpenGL and DX11 because the API worked in a way that was predictable enough to essentially queue up calls and execute them asyncronously on the CPU, transparently to the application. DX12 and Vulkan are sufficently complex and give enough control where doing this isn't likely to be feasible going forward because this very optimization technique that nVidia has been doing is now going to be left on the game developers to utilize by either the game engine or mechanisms exposed by Vulkan or DX12.

Simply put, AMD didn't make the same assumptions by how applications would be using these APIs (DX11 + OpenGL) and conformed to a more strict interpretation of these API specifications whereas nVidia implemented it in a way there the API conforms to the spec but, what is expected to happen when theses APIs are called might not be actually what's happening under the hood. The benefit of this is that nVidia's driver a lot of times can turn around and say, "Yup, I'm done doing what you told me to do," but, in reality, it might have just been put on a queue to be processed later. With DX12 and Vulkan, that kind of work is expected to be done by the game devs, not driver devs.
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,836 (3.96/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
Extra performance in Vulcan for AMD says more about their very poor DX11 drivers than it says about Vulcan.
Well, it's not really about poor drivers. It's more about Pentium4-style architecture: if the code isn't written in a certain way, it can't put all the hardware to good use (i.e. they can't put all those shaders to work using traditional APIs).
The real reason (well, one of them anyway) they're pushing Vulkan, is their drivers still suck at OpenGL.
But since Vulkan is cross-platform and assuming it's actually good, I have no problem with any company pushing for support. Because developers will need incentives if they're required to do more work now.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
14,164 (3.82/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name H7 Flow 2024
Processor AMD 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus X570 Tough Gaming
Cooling Custom liquid
Memory 32 GB DDR4
Video Card(s) Intel ARC A750
Storage Crucial P5 Plus 2TB.
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Mouse Lenovo
Keyboard Eweadn Mechanical
Software W11 Pro 64 bit
The real reason (well, one of them anyway) they're pushing Vulkan, is their drivers still suck at OpenGL.
More like they realised that horse is dead and pushing it wont help.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
296 (0.07/day)
System Name Darkside
Processor R7 3700X
Motherboard Aorus Elite X570
Cooling Deepcool Gammaxx l240
Memory Thermaltake Toughram DDR4 3600MHz CL18
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RX Vega 64 Gaming OC
Storage ADATA & WD 500GB NVME PCIe 3.0, many WD Black 1-3TB HD
Display(s) Samsung C27JG5x
Case Thermaltake Level 20 XL
Audio Device(s) iFi xDSD / micro iTube2 / micro iCAN SE
Power Supply EVGA 750W G2
Mouse Corsair M65
Keyboard Corsair K70 LUX RGB
Benchmark Scores Not sure, don't care
False hope. Gets 30fps more than DX11/OGL on same hardware... What kind of strong weed are you smoking?

30fps is roughly the difference for Doom 3 between DX11 and Vulcan with my HD7950 3GB. Max detail 1200P @ 88fps average. I'll take it!!

:toast:
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
2,214 (0.44/day)
System Name Ultima
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Motherboard MSI Mag B550M Mortar
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240 rev4 w/ Ryzen offset mount
Memory G.SKill Ripjaws V 2x16GB DDR4 3600
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 4070 12GB Dual
Storage WD Black SN850X 2TB Gen4, Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500GB , 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD sata,
Display(s) ASUS TUF VG249Q3A 24" 1080p 165-180Hz VRR
Case DarkFlash DLM21 Mesh
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek ALC1200 Audio/Nvidia HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair RM650
Mouse Rog Strix Impact 3 Wireless | Wacom Intuos CTH-480
Keyboard A4Tech B314 Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Pro
it never ends...
 

the54thvoid

Super Intoxicated Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
13,105 (2.39/day)
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar B650 (wifi)
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
Memory 32GB Kingston Fury
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX4070ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 M.2 1TB / Samsumg 960 Pro M.2 512Gb
Display(s) LG 32" 165Hz 1440p GSYNC
Case Asus Prime AP201
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply be quiet! Pure POwer M12 850w Gold (ATX3.0)
Software W10
This is where the fruits of indiscipline come into play.
As long as gamers are willing to get Win 10 in order to use DX 12, and as long as the majority of gamers are willing to pay the obscene prices of these Paxwell cards, nothing will change.

Meanwhile, with even the latest and greatest AAA title shipping as DX11 and with DX12 support patched in, there is no rush to buy a DX12 card right now. Given the programmed visuals on DX11 are the same as DX12 in Deus Ex MD, why would anyone need to move to DX12? Nvidia isn't the bad guy here - they're simply profiteering because it has no peer right now.

I was looking to buy a Fury X a while back as a sidegrade project (with a 6700k) to replace my existing set up. Problem is that in the UK at least the Fury X is still retailing at or above £500. So I still have to pay that premium for a 'last gen' card when AMD have already launched their new gen Polaris.

You can always tell the balanced posters because they bitch about both sides being culpable for the current state of affairs. AMD are just as much the reason Nvidia do what they do as AMD haven't stepped up to the plate. Their long game is so long that people get bored waiting and move on to something new. But then there is the fact that AMD is so focused on providing for the new consoles that they neglect the PC side. It seems fairly obvious now that Polaris was co-designed on the PC side as it was being produced to go into the PS4 Pro.

So we have to wait for AMD to deliver Vega, likely in the same time frame the 1080ti will be out, perhaps even followed closely by Volta. And even if Vega is 50% better than Fury X (AMD's usual generational perf improvement) that won't really be enough to 'swing' the boat around. Sure, in selected titles but we really need AMD to produce something special. And then there is the stinger...

The Fury X is generally only about 20% faster than the 390X (therefore only 30% faster than the 290X).

The GCN changes haven't yielded significant generational improvements so Vega needs to really ramp it up. If Vega doesn't deliver, your pain will only continue.
 

rtwjunkie

PC Gaming Enthusiast
Supporter
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
14,010 (2.34/day)
Location
Louisiana
Processor Core i9-9900k
Motherboard ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 6
Cooling All air: 2x140mm Fractal exhaust; 3x 140mm Cougar Intake; Enermax ETS-T50 Black CPU cooler
Memory 32GB (2x16) Mushkin Redline DDR-4 3200
Video Card(s) ASUS RTX 4070 Ti Super OC 16GB
Storage 1x 1TB MX500 (OS); 2x 6TB WD Black; 1x 2TB MX500; 1x 1TB BX500 SSD; 1x 6TB WD Blue storage (eSATA)
Display(s) Infievo 27" 165Hz @ 2560 x 1440
Case Fractal Design Define R4 Black -windowed
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster Z
Power Supply Seasonic Focus GX-1000 Gold
Mouse Coolermaster Sentinel III (large palm grip!)
Keyboard Logitech G610 Orion mechanical (Cherry Brown switches)
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (Start10 & Fences 3.0 installed)
What Nvidia has done is ignore the new APIs until they become an issue for their customers.

No. What NVIDIA have been doing is because they can afford to, and that is make the best card for the current most popular API. Nothing wrong wiith that. They saw before Maxwell, and rightly predicted, that DX12 adoption would be super slow. And it has been. Why waste resources putting out products now that will do DX12 and perform worse on 11 if they don't have to?

As to Vulkan, apparently this situation doesn't apply as much to NVIDIA, since it works pretty well on the current gen.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.87/day)
There I fixed that for you. If AMD would get their drivers on par with DX11/OGL you wouldn't see that huge of "leap" in performance. Nobody said AMD's cards are bad the software that's behind them up is utter trash. If memory servers right this is just typical nVidia business DX11 was horrible for them while ATI had the crown. Within 2 gens tables turned. I'm all for rooting for the underdog but when you put jack into RnD you get jack back and this is what AMD is doing (because they can't support it financially). Furthermore why wouldn't they promote it? It's less work for them trying to patch drivers up.

I've had like 6 generations of Radeon cards and I don't know where people find all this crap support and awful performance on DX11 and OpenGL. I've never had performance issues with any Radeon and I've played UT99 via enhanced OGL renderer as well as all id Software games. Which were all OGL as well.
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
450 (0.13/day)
Location
Michigan
System Name Velka
Processor R5 3600
Motherboard MSI MPG X570
Cooling Wraith stealth
Memory Corsair vengeance 3000mhz
Video Card(s) RX 6650xt
Storage Crucial P1 1TB/ 1tb WD blue
Display(s) MSI MAG301RF + Insignia NS-PMG248
Case Corsair 400r
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair HX1000i
Mouse Logitech G305
Keyboard Redragon K556
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores No thanks
I havent played with vulcan yet, but im glad AMD are trying to adopt it from what i hear its simply amazing in performance. People who are hating on nvidia should stop because they are doing simply amazing at coming out with some of the FASTEST cards so what they dont get as big of a bump from Vulcan they still kick butt
 
Top