TPU's Nostalgic Hardware Club

[Mr.Scott]

What about the 256 MB of SDRAM Trekkie4 installed? Wouldn't it be a tight fit for XP ?

Not at all. 128 MB works fine. Less than that it starts to get slow.........real slow.

 

[dorsetknob]

got a Dell laptop with a 266Mhz Cpu and 256 m/b Ram that runs ok But Slow Still tho it complains of too little mem have to restrict how many progs and services are running
its pictured way earlier in this thread ( working of course )

 

[Trekkie4]

That will run XP just fine.
I have XP on older systems than that. It's more versatile than you think.

Agreed, which is why I mentioned XP to begin with. And having dual HDD configuration would allow me to run both ME and XP on single machine... Remember, I'm primarily going to run Unreal & UT, perhaps Deus Ex & Half-Life as well, and those are older titles which work best on W9x/ME

What about the 256 MB of SDRAM Trekkie4 installed? Wouldn't it be a tight fit for XP ?

I consider 256MB to be "retro standard" for most of my machines, but I can easily add more if necessary. Or even upgrade to DDR, since I'm using two sticks of PC133 at the moment (wanted to keep the RAM more accurate to the CPU value & clock speed, Duron 950)

You have to Remember and Acknowledge that people upgraded machines from this Era and Earlier with XP same way people are now bludging their win 7 pc's with win 10 oops

I've been using S775 Pentium 4 to run Windows 7 for several years, before I finally stepped up & upgraded to dual-core Pentium processor, which I'm running on this system as we speak. Not only that, but the RetroMaster build was the perfect example of how far you can push your old hardware & for what purpose... Despite being DirectX8 based & only running 512MB of DDR1 RAM, I had no problems playing games from 2006, or even 2007

On a side note, I've decided to name my Savage system "Savage Squarepants"!

 

[Mr.Scott]

got a Dell laptop with a 266Mhz Cpu and 256 m/b Ram that runs ok But Slow Still tho it complains of too little mem have to restrict how many progs and services are running

Of course.
I restrict services on all of my XP OS's anyway, so it's not a big deal.
My average open processes is only 15 if it's an internet machine. I benchmark with 9.

 

[Trekkie4]

*sigh* I should have known things wouldn't be that simple... Once again, I'm having problems with the Savage build. Even though everything seems to be working OK (in the terms of hardware), I'm experiencing a terrible lag in both Windows ME and XP. As in performance drop, I'm barely getting 15FPS within Unreal games, including Deus Ex. And judging from the past experience with other cards (such as TNT2, even Vanta M64) I can only assume that it's actually a problem, fault and not just your average lag. Because it really is painfully slow, 3D mark 2000 is barely hitting the 1000 score mark, and only when I turn all the settings to minimum (16-bit). Otherwise it scores around 800, 850.

Any ideas, suggestions guys? Tomorrow I'm going to swap out the RAM for DDR & see if it does the trick. Or maybe even swap the AGP card for Vanta M64, just to see if it'll make any difference. Because at this point, I've exhausted all other possibilities, I even flashed the board to the latest, 2yr newer version!

 

[Mr.Scott]

What driver?

 

[Trekkie4]

Under XP it's the original, MS driver which came with Windows. As for ME, it's the latest version from 2000, 82031. I even tried with "Engineering release", but this one completely crashed the system & left me with BSOD.

 

[Mr.Scott]

Here.
http://downloadcenter.mustek.co.za/list.php?dir=Repository/Archive/AGP Vga Cards/S3/Savage4/

Bottom one is the one you want.

 

[Recon-UK]

Oh yes, got my Voodoo3 2000 system delivered earlier today, all bundled inside this cheap but very nice & clean-looking computer case! I already love it!


And here it is, 3dfx Voodoo3 2000 model, which not only seems to be in mint condition but works perfectly fine!


Just what I need, an old Socket A mobo, and no I'm not being sarcastic I blew up the Gigabyte board, remember? So this one will take its place, they're pretty much the same in the terms of chipset & overall design!


I'm planning to take this board out & reuse the case (and PSU) for Savage4 system, which is still on hold, until I receive that A7A266 board, it'll be perfect! But DVD-RW has to go out (way too modern for an old S462 system), and it'll be replaced by either DVD-ROM or another CD-ROM drive...

On a side note, this silver case here is one of my older builds, featuring Pentium 3 500 paired up with Voodoo2 (8MB) in SLI & Rage128 combo and SB Live! card. This system here was the one mentioned yesterday, with the sudden PSU failure. I quickly tested it, just to make sure PSU didn't cause any damage inside... Happy to say though, it seems to be working OK.

Not been keeping up with the thread, congrats mate!

 

[Trekkie4]

Here.
http://downloadcenter.mustek.co.za/list.php?dir=Repository/Archive/AGP Vga Cards/S3/Savage4/

Bottom one is the one you want.

Thanks bunches, I'm going to try it out tomorrow. But this one is for Win2k, XP right? They're not for 9x/ME... Because what I find weird is that I'm having the same problem under both ME and XP, with two different drivers, even operating systems! So I guess it has to be hardware related? *shrug*

Not been keeping up with the thread, congrats mate!

Thanks Take a look at the more recent posts, I've used the Voodoo3 case for the Savage build, which I'm tweaking & troubleshooting as we speak

 

[Mr.Scott]

Thanks bunches, I'm going to try it out tomorrow. But this one is for Win2k, XP right? They're not for 9x/ME... Because what I find weird is that I'm having the same problem under both ME and XP, with two different drivers, even operating systems! So I guess it has to be hardware related? *shrug*

1) NT
2) 9x
3) ME
4) 2k/XP

Try the XP driver because the standard windows driver doesn't always load correctly. If it still does the same thing, I suspect the Savage card isn't going into 3D mode.

I assume you loaded the AGP drivers for the board chipset, right?

 

[Trekkie4]

I did load ALi AGP driver for ME, yes but not for XP. Because when I did, the XP Savage driver "couldn't start", and I was stuck in 640x480 mode.

 

[Mr.Scott]

I did load ALi AGP driver for ME, yes but not for XP. Because when I did, the XP Savage driver "couldn't start", and I was stuck in 640x480 mode.

For XP you need to try the AGP miniport drivers then. They're all Beta's so you might have to try more than one.
http://www.asus.com/support/Download/1/10/17/1/17/

I'm almost positive it's just a driver issue.

 

[Trekkie4]

Thanks! In which order do I install these? Miniport 1st & AGP driver 2nd or vice versa?

 

[Mr.Scott]

AGP / chipset drivers are always the first thing you want to load after the OS is loaded.
Miniport will be after that.

 

[Trekkie4]

Right, that's what I usually do (install chipset drivers 1st) Just wanted to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

 

[Ahhzz]

AGP / chipset drivers are always the first thing you want to load after the OS is loaded.
Miniport will be after that.

to jump in a little late, absolutely chipset first thing.

 

[Trekkie4]

Well guys, I did everything you told me... Chipset drivers, AGP miniport, etc. And yes, I did get the Savage card to load under XP but still getting the same results, so I've tried swapping 256MB of SD RAM for 512MB DDR, just to see if it'll make any difference. To my surprise, it doesn't, I'm barely seeing any improvement in the terms of FPS. So I took out the Savage card & swapped it for Vanta M64 and guess what? The results doubled, M64 wiped the floor with Savage 4 Pro...

The only unanswered question here is the most obvious one ... is the Savage card supposed to be THAT slow, or is it malfunctioning, not working as it should? Because at this stage I'm seriously considering to just swap the card for M64 or MX200, which would give me a fully working system, but without S3TC support. In other words it would be just the same old story... IDK, it's a tough choice!

The ONLY game which is kinda playable was the UT, which seems to be working OK with S3TC "METAL" mode, while the other games such as DeusEx & Unreal are lagging terribly at 1024x768, even in 16bit color but with all settings set to "high".

 

[stinger608]

I have to think that the Savage card is not working properly @Trekkie4

 

[Mr.Scott]

I have to think that the Savage card is not working properly @Trekkie4

I have to agree.

 

[Trekkie4]

Agreed. it's better to play it safe than damage yet another motherboard...

Starting with NVidia TNT2 Vanta, the (in)famous M64 version... Does seem to be working, but there's no way I'm going to use this one, at least not any time soon!

So anyway, I present you with Duron 950, Vanta M64 build. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, it only shows just how easy it is nowdays to make a retro gaming machine (just in case you considered to make one for yourself but figured it would be too expensive and/or not worth the investment).

Apart from maybe the motherboard, all the components inside this machine are (were back in a day) low-budget, and are VERY easy to come across... M64 is one of the most common cards to come across, SD-RAM is cheap as chips (in come cases even completely free), and the CPU is pretty easy & straightforward. Bet most of you could easily find one yourself, perhaps even a "better" (Athlon) model since high-end Durons are sorta becoming hard to find. And that's pretty much it really, no fancy environmental 3D-accelerated sound cards, no Voodoo cards, no MPEG DVD encoders, no modems, just the simple ethernet card for the LAN connection perhaps, in case you want one (or have one to spare)


If I'd have to put a price tag on this thing it would be somewhere around $7,00 or €6,50. But don't let the price tag fool you ... this system is powerful enough to run all the games from 1994/95 up to early 2000's, 2001. And it's sure loads better than ANY emulator or VM.

 

[biffzinker]

Looks like the Savage4 Pro drivers still needed some optimization work done going by a review from xbit labs.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/print/creative-savage4.html

The Savage4 Pro's fill rate is 110-143 mln pixels per second compared to the ATI Rage128's 200 or the Riva TNT2's 250-300. But the Savage4 matches the TNT2 for Polygon Processing Power of 8 mln per second.

 

[Trekkie4]

Right, thanks for the info. Your data confirms what I suspected (but didn't want to say out loud), and also what both @stinger608 and @Mr.Scott already pointed out... Something is seriously messed up with my Savage4 card

Because according to this, Vanta M64 should be running SLOWER than Savage, NOT faster! Except in my situation here, the M64 has the same, even somewhat better benchmarking results under 1024x768, 32bit than Savage, under 1024x768 16bit with all settings set to minimum *shrug*

This here was the best I could get out of Savage4, with all settings (except for the resolution) set to minimum:


I even got the S3 MeTaL driver to start up & work (under UT), but apart from that not much... As I said before, even the older titles such as DeusEx had serious slowdowns & glitches all over!


Anyway, I'm planning to keep the Vanta card inside for now, but as soon as I get the opportunity to buy another Savage4 card, I probably will...

 

[biffzinker]

How about this Creative Labs 32Mb S3 Savage4 AGP VGA Video Graphics Card for US$12.00 @Trekkie4?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Creative-La...316292?hash=item41b3acbc44:g:n0QAAOSwGIRXaGQ1

 

[Trekkie4]

$12.00 for Savage card?! Heh, thanks but no thanks There's one for sale locally, for the price of $3,71...

Already contacted the seller & will see if we can make a deal. Manli branded, not sure if it's "Pro" though, but it's 32MB just like the old one, same PCB color even. The only model number(s) I can see are DH-Savage4 on the PCB and "S3 Savage4 32MB" on the paper sticker.