Razer Reinforces Audio Business by Acquiring Majority of THX Assets

[Raevenlord]

In a bid to reinforce its audio business, Razer has now acquired the majority of THX's assets. THX, which was founded in 1983 by George Lucas, has for the past thirty-three years focused on cinema audio systems, home audio systems, and audio certification. It is now to operate as an independent subsidiary of Razer, under its own management and the leeway to run its own operations and make its own business decisions. Terms of the deal were not disclosed, though Razer stressed that it intends to maintain all of THX's management and staff.

It is expected that this won't bring about major changes to THX's business model; their main focus points, namely Certification (testing and validation that a given system has passed a set of criteria determined by THX); THX Live! (focused in the audio experience unto itself, whether at cinema-like venues or at home); and THX Inside (focused on hardware's underlying technologies), are to continue operating within their given framework. That said, THX will now further expand their Certification programme to additional lines of products: headphones, Bluetooth speakers, streaming video, set-top boxes, and connected speakers, which are all, unsurprisingly, part of Razer's product portfolio.







Historically, Razer has always been heavily focused on the PC gaming market, from systems to accessories (with its mice being some of the most well regarded among enthusiasts). Though an apparently big part of this acquisition is an overlapping interest from both parties regarding VR (which is quite the technological, marketing and business push these days), with THX recently increasing its efforts in this area, and Razer being an already known contributor to the OSVR platform.

Although this wasn't a particularly likely acquisition, both parties stand to gain: THX sees a financial infusion (and who doesn't like capital), while Razer will receive feedback and solid audio engineering towards the improvement of their audio products and enjoy THX's still strong brand recognition.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site

 

[FreedomEclipse]

There was some small part of me hoping they would start making soundcards no matter how bloated their drivers would be... The soundcard market is pretty stagnant

 

[RejZoR]

The soundcard market is stagnant because we've gone from squeaking soundcards to soundcards as we know them today to properly hardware accelerated soundcards with awesome effects back to this software accelerated garbage with software effects that we again have today. They've literally gone 20 years back in terms of sound on PC's. What's there to improve if everything runs on garbage emulated software mode?!

Creative and Aureal innovated things back in 1998 that we are now slowly getting back with so called GPU accelerated audio. Which in a nutshell means you need a Radeon and you get like 3 titles that sort of maybe support it. Yay for progress...

If I'm brutally honest, games with EAX 2.0 had more organic sounding materials than this generic software crap that all sounds artificial like you're applying wood, metal or glass effects to a plastic surface. It wants to sound like those materials but it always has that plasticky sound to it. And that's why I hate the current state of PC audio from the bottom of my heart. It's crap, has regressed back for decades and it just sounds awful.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Sound cards died for two reasons:
stereo: USB -> DAC + amplifier
multi-channel: HDMI -> receiver (DAC + amplifier)

The motherboard integrated DAC is more than enough for >90% of consumers. Options exist for those that need more but it is external because the software of those that are available is shit.


THX certification...does it even carry the weight it used to? That really is THX's only notable product. I'd argue yes because it separates the posers from the good stuff. The thing is, most speaker manufacturers don't even bother to get THX certification anymore because they feel it doesn't generate more sales for them. I think Razer made a mistake unless it manages to topple something like Beats.

 

[RejZoR]

You're one of those who only look at frequencies, decibels, and all the countless abbreviations related to sound. If you ever used EAX or learned what it is and what it does, you'd learn it was related to hardware accelerated sound, refraction and reflection with material "shaders" reverberation. It involved realistically sounding in-game materials paired with realistic 3D audio positioning. Something you can't ever achieve with any soundcard even if it processes audio at 128bit with 384kHz.

It's why I always laugh when so called "audiophiles" start talking about audio quality in games and they have absolutely no clue what 3D positional audio even is or why material audio shaders matter more than all the audio quality metrics they know...

 

[Caring1]

Maybe they are going to use this with headphones to improve sound.

 

[RejZoR]

Wasn't THX just a sort of guideline and certification for speaker systems to have specific output properties? I mean, my Altec Lansing MX5021 are THX certified. They sound amazing, but they are just speakers like any other. THX isn't some special magical technology...

 

[Dammeron]

You're one of those who only look at frequencies, decibels, and all the countless abbreviations related to sound. If you ever used EAX or learned what it is and what it does, you'd learn it was related to hardware accelerated sound, refraction and reflection with material "shaders" reverberation. It involved realistically sounding in-game materials paired with realistic 3D audio positioning. Something you can't ever achieve with any soundcard even if it processes audio at 128bit with 384kHz.

It's why I always laugh when so called "audiophiles" start talking about audio quality in games and they have absolutely no clue what 3D positional audio even is or why material audio shaders matter more than all the audio quality metrics they know...

EAX died cause of how Vista and above process sound. Also - the things You mentioned were only featured in EAX Advanced HD 5.0 (the last one) and were implemented in only 7 games total (while not truly working in most of them).

Wasn't THX just a sort of guideline and certification for speaker systems to have specific output properties? I mean, my Altec Lansing MX5021 are THX certified. They sound amazing, but they are just speakers like any other. THX isn't some special magical technology...

At first it was related to sound systems in cinemas (similar to Dolby and DTS), but then made it's way to home audio for an additional bling-bling.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

You're one of those who only look at frequencies, decibels, and all the countless abbreviations related to sound. If you ever used EAX or learned what it is and what it does, you'd learn it was related to hardware accelerated sound, refraction and reflection with material "shaders" reverberation. It involved realistically sounding in-game materials paired with realistic 3D audio positioning. Something you can't ever achieve with any soundcard even if it processes audio at 128bit with 384kHz.

It's why I always laugh when so called "audiophiles" start talking about audio quality in games and they have absolutely no clue what 3D positional audio even is or why material audio shaders matter more than all the audio quality metrics they know...

Uh, developers have to use it and most developers didn't use EAX because it's proprietary (who wants to pay Creative, seriously?). Most games these days use whatever the engine uses which is usually positional based. It's all done in software because virtually no one has dedicated audio processors anymore.

That said, we got technologies like OpenAL to fill in the gaps.

Wasn't THX just a sort of guideline and certification for speaker systems to have specific output properties? I mean, my Altec Lansing MX5021 are THX certified. They sound amazing, but they are just speakers like any other. THX isn't some special magical technology...

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/thx-certification#ElJJu2EsWM6YKWMT.97

 

[RejZoR]

Yeah and all those software solutions have absolutely pathetic 3D positioning as well as material rendering. My point still stands. And saying "uh oh no one used EAX anyway". Yeah, maybe if you were born after Windows Vista release. Those of us who were gaming from the 90's know almost every game had EAX support. Games without it were the odd ones.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I been gaming since DOS and, to be honest, I never really noticed any problem with audio...unless it is MIDI. MIDI needs extra love due to its synthesized nature.

Remember in the 90s that separate audio processor made a big difference in terms of framerates (single-core processors). Additionally, very little was integrated into the motherboard back then where almost everything is today.

Pretty sure there was never a THX certified sound card so...not really relevant to this discussion.

 

[bug]

The soundcard market is stagnant because we've gone from squeaking soundcards to soundcards as we know them today to properly hardware accelerated soundcards with awesome effects back to this software accelerated garbage with software effects that we again have today. They've literally gone 20 years back in terms of sound on PC's. What's there to improve if everything runs on garbage emulated software mode?!

We didn't really go back. We went from solutions stuck in silicon + questionable drivers to software processing. Since CPUs are not running at 300MHz today, getting rid of Creative vs everything else was actually a step forward. And sound can still be accelerated in hardware today: https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/hardware/drivers/audio/hardware-offloaded-audio-processing

Razer will receive feedback and solid audio engineering towards the improvement of their audio products

Considering that THX only develops standards and certifies hardware, I fail to see what Razer stand to gain. Unless THX starts writing standards based on existing Razer implementations. But that would mean THX going down the drain. Fast.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

We didn't really go back. We went from solutions stuck in silicon + questionable drivers to software processing. Since CPUs are not running at 300MHz today, getting rid of Creative vs everything else was actually a step forward. And sound can still be accelerated in hardware today: https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/hardware/drivers/audio/hardware-offloaded-audio-processing

Interesting, but does this hardware actually exist?

 

[RejZoR]

We didn't really go back. We went from solutions stuck in silicon + questionable drivers to software processing. Since CPUs are not running at 300MHz today, getting rid of Creative vs everything else was actually a step forward. And sound can still be accelerated in hardware today: https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/hardware/drivers/audio/hardware-offloaded-audio-processing



Considering that THX only develops standards and certifies hardware, I fail to see what Razer stand to gain. Unless THX starts writing standards based on existing Razer implementations. But that would mean THX going down the drain. Fast.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. I've had a Core 7 920 with Creative X-Fi and running in software was stupendously slower. That wasn't a 300MHz CPU, it was a 4GHz quad core. And you're saying it like it was 100% hardware based solution. You do realize graphic cards are exactly the same? There is this thing called a DRIVER and more advanced hardware like Creative soundcards had programmable effects. EAX was just an API for it, just like DirectX is for graphics.

 

[bug]

Interesting, but does this hardware actually exist?

No idea, I haven't spent $$$ on audio cards in over 10 years. All I use these days is the SPDIF out

 

[Prima.Vera]

There was some small part of me hoping they would start making soundcards no matter how bloated their drivers would be... The sound card market is pretty stagnant

We have to thank Micro$oft for that, and for completelly destroying the 3D Sound on PC and by ripple effect on all other platforms. Still cannot believe a game from 90's sounds 100 times better than this just implementation nowadays.
So naturally the new released sound cards got nothing to offer compared to previous solutions, or compared to on-board sound which lately, has got on the same level as the add-on solutions from 4-5 years ago.

...Also - the things You mentioned were only featured in EAX Advanced HD 5.0 (the last one) and were implemented in only 7 games total (while not truly working in most of them).

True, but also do remember, that 3D sound not only involved specific material and environment sound types and realistic reflections, but mostly 3D sound positioning. Which was so amazing at that time because it could have been done with 2 crappy speakers only.
I was gaming on Unreal with A3D 2.0 card, and up/downs, back sounds and also environmental sounds were so realistic that I couldn't believe how good they were in 1998. Good ol' times.

Interesting, but does this hardware actually exist?

The Hardware is there for sure. ALL Creative, Asus, Turtle Bitch, etc have very good hardware processor capable of outputting quality 3D sound, however, the current software for them are utterly crap and not using the full potential, very buggy if emulated, etc, but the nr.1 issue right now is, the complete LAZINESS and probably lack of knowledge of game producers to implement such solutions in Windows 8+ games...

 

[FordGT90Concept]

No idea, I haven't spent $$$ on audio cards in over 10 years. All I use these days is the SPDIF out

Yuck, stereo or lossy 5.1. SPDIF needs to die.

The Hardware is there for sure. ALL Creative, Asus, Turtle Bitch, etc have very good hardware processor capable of outputting quality 3D sound, however, the current software for them are utterly crap and not using the full potential, very buggy if emulated, etc, but the nr.1 issue right now is, the complete LAZINESS and probably lack of knowledge of game producers to implement such solutions in Windows 8+ games...

But you see, Microsoft has it right. Software can do what hardware did. Get everyone using a standard (like pixel shaders) and then virtually any hardware vendor can create an add-in-board to accelerate that task and offload it from the CPU. The thing is, this is very niche of a niche market which means very little demand for it. Little demand means no products.

I definitely wouldn't want to return to the XP and earlier days of hardware. There was a plethora of audio devices out there and if you don't happen to stumble upon the right driver, expect audio issues (popping and the like). Go back to the 90s and you'd have to have specific hardware to hear anything in games whatsoever. Both were hell. Today, Microsoft's generic HD Audio driver is often better than the garbage the hardware vendors put out. It's like the 2000s are trying to make a comeback and (fortunately) failing.

 

[RejZoR]

EAX 5.0 was only implemented in so little games because not many people bought X-Fi which was super expensive for the times when most crap soundcards were like 10-20 bucks and most were satisified with garbage AC97. But it was the only one to support EAX 5.0. EAX 4.0 had better reception due to cheaper Audigy and X-Fi Audio cards. And of course the sacking of DirectSound3D with Vista that contributed to that. OpenAL was born but no one cared about it for whatever reason.

Today, Microsoft's generic HD Audio driver is often better than the garbage the hardware vendors put out. It's like the 2000s are trying to make a comeback and (fortunately) failing.

You literally don't know what you're talking about and people like you are the reason why it is failing to come back. Unfortunately.

I've had Diamond Monster II (Aureal A3D), SB Live! 5.1, SB Audigy 2 Value, SB X-Fi Xtreme Music, X-Fi Forte and now SB Z and have used EAX on all of them. The garbage software audio today can't be compared on any level. At all. You have to be literally deaf to ever claim otherwise.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Realtek drivers don't support stereo surround on my system (MSI claims the motherboard doesn't support it, period). Microsoft's generic drivers do. The difference between enabled and not is night and day (3 channels versus 6, front versus emersion).

The last sound card I had a lot of background noise in them. Instead of blowing $100 on another crappy sound card, I blew $200 on a USB headphone DAC + amp and I don't regret the decision.


a whole lot of cards I can't remember -> Live 5.1 -> Audigy 2 ZS -> HT|OMEGA Striker 7.1
I've refused to buy Creative since they retroactively removed stereo surround support in an effort to force people to buy X-Fi. I can't name once I deliberately tried to use EAX.


And again, this has nothing to do with Razer nor THX. THX certifies hardware, not creates it.

 

[Prima.Vera]

I've had Diamond Monster II (Aureal A3D), SB Live! 5.1, SB Audigy 2 Value, SB X-Fi Xtreme Music, X-Fi Forte and now SB Z and have used EAX on all of them. The garbage software audio today can't be compared on any level. At all. You have to be literally deaf to ever claim otherwise.

True, is that bad sadly.

I've refused to buy Creative since they retroactively removed stereo surround support in an effort to force people to buy X-Fi. I can't name once I deliberately tried to use EAX.
And again, this has nothing to do with Razer nor THX. THX certifies hardware, not creates it.

Neh, Creative is not that bad. Their drivers are, but with some modded ones from the KPAX (that dude is amazing btw), I have everything I can desire on my old Xi-Fi, including official THX, Dolby and DTS certifications.
But guess what, the Creative proprietary one, EAX+CMSS3D offers better sound quality over those, and better stereo separation for my 2.1 speakers.

I definitely wouldn't want to return to the XP and earlier days of hardware. There was a plethora of audio devices out there and if you don't happen to stumble upon the right driver, expect audio issues (popping and the like). Go back to the 90s and you'd have to have specific hardware to hear anything in games whatsoever. Both were hell. Today, Microsoft's generic HD Audio driver is often better than the garbage the hardware vendors put out. It's like the 2000s are trying to make a comeback and (fortunately) failing.

I agree, it was a mess in the beginning, but then MS released Direct Sound 3D that all major sound card producers at that time, including Creative, Aureal, Asus, Auzentech, etc, had drivers ready and compatible with DS3D, so that's no excuse.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Neh, Creative is not that bad. Their drivers are, but with some modded ones from the KPAX (that dude is amazing btw), I have everything I can desire on my old Xi-Fi, including official THX, Dolby and DTS certifications.
But guess what, the Creative proprietary one, EAX+CMSS3D offers better sound quality over those, and better stereo separation for my 2.1 speakers.

I think you made my case for me. Creative is still garbage.


Here's an example of how audio is done these days (no EAX):
https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Audio/Overview/index.html

Sound Cues in particular.

 

[RejZoR]

I've had ZERO problems with X-Fi and SB Z drivers. And frankly, SB Live! and Audigy 2 drivers weren't bad, just the panels were that typical Asian BMP crap. But other than that, it worked just fine.

People saying CPU can do everything HW accelerated soundcards could do. Then ask yourselves, why is AMD offloading audio computation on GPU if a 2GHz dual core can run all the audio effects so easily? The X-Fi had computation power of Athlon FX-53 or Pentium 4 Extreme Edition.

And how can you say Creative is garbage when you're using Realtek?! Like lol... And that fancy Unreal sound editor, yeah, it sounds like generic garbage no matter how many fancy effects you daisy chain in it. All materials have the same garbage plasticky sound. Until you play System Shock 2 or Half-Life 1 from 1998/1999 using EAX, you can't possibly talk about audio quality in games. And those EAX versions were rather primitive compared to EAX 3.0 or 4.0...

 

[bug]

Yuck, stereo or lossy 5.1. SPDIF needs to die.

What do you mean?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Then ask yourselves, why is AMD offloading audio computation on GPU if a 2GHz dual core can run all the audio effects so easily?

Because audio is comprised of floating point decimal calculations which is the GPU's forte. CPUs can do it too but typical CPU throughput is measured in GFLOPS where GPUs are measured in TFLOPs.

And how can you say Creative is garbage when you're using Realtek?!

Do some research, ALC1150 chips are pretty damn close to Creative in performance at a fraction of the cost and much higher reliability. My speakers have a 115dB SNR and that's what ALC1150 has too.

What do you mean?

What I said. HDMI can do at least eight channels losslessly. SPDIF can only do two channels losslessly.

 

[eidairaman1]

I been gaming since DOS and, to be honest, I never really noticed any problem with audio...unless it is MIDI. MIDI needs extra love due to its synthesized nature.

Remember in the 90s that separate audio processor made a big difference in terms of framerates (single-core processors). Additionally, very little was integrated into the motherboard back then where almost everything is today.

Pretty sure there was never a THX certified sound card so...not really relevant to this discussion.

Oh man the sb pci 512 would take midi sounds from wmp files and make them sound beautiful unlike the ac97 codecs. Now there are no drivers for that card.