AMD Radeon Vega GPU Architecture

[Basard]

On paper the 2900XT was great....... the X1800XT was great... but performance was mediocre.

I remember those days. The 2900xt and the hd3870 vs the 8800 lineup. They had almost triple the shaders but they started cutting back on the other pixel pipelines--massively. I'm not totally sure what all them pixel pipelines do but it seemed like that ruined every card after the x800 series.... but then it always depended on the game and how much of each pipeline the game used. Meh, I'm probably half full of shit, so I'll stop now.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I just got an RX 480. Will these be in similar price range, or is this a 1080 competitor? One thing I hate about the whole PCMR crap is how its moving so fast that a card I got for Christmas may soon be last gen.

I would be amazed if this was in the 480 price range. It will be a 1080 competitor, but if I guess about AMD correctly, it will likely be about $325 to $350.

 

[chaosmassive]

I would be amazed if this was in the 480 price range. It will be a 1080 competitor, but if I guess about AMD correctly, it will likely be about $325 to $350.

if it turn out to be correct, this card simply cannibalize everything Nvidia has. Provided the card has necessary amount of performance

 

[dalekdukesboy]

I would be amazed if this was in the 480 price range. It will be a 1080 competitor, but if I guess about AMD correctly, it will likely be about $325 to $350.

I thank you partially just in hopes you're right in such wishful thinking. Not saying you're wrong or right, but man imagine a card soon that is 1080'ish in performance selling for anything under 400? Currently the cheapest 1080 is upwards of 650~ and custom high end cooling jobs are pushing 800 at times! So it would be a welcome change to get roughly that performance for barely half as much if it were within the next few months, if it is too much longer it may not have nearly the same effect.

 

[dalekdukesboy]

if it turn out to be correct, this card simply cannibalize everything Nvidia has. Provided the card has necessary amount of performance

Yes, put another way as you put it if this comes out in a reasonable amount of time it would turn the entire GPU world on its' head as much as we HOPE Ryzen might turn the CPU world on its' head! One can hope, we shall see but companies scrambling to catch one another forcing innovation and/or price cuts for current stock that now loses value may suck for them but great for us!

Be a pretty amazing feat that AMD after stumbling once acquiring ATI and stumbling worse with its' once formidable Cpu's could at the same time (roughly) hit home runs in both markets. Again stipulation only but at least the possibility is very much there for Ryzen and with fair amount less certainty but still possibility with Vega with our now theoretical data...now we just need a bit more hard data followed by something better than a paper launch to make it happen.

bug said: ↑
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/56092-nvidia-launches-geforce-6800-graphics-family
https://www.cnet.com/products/ati-radeon-9800/preview/

But of course, there's inflation...

Yes, but no. Problem is wages have not "inflated" they have literally been stagnant and even on average slightly lower since around 2000. So you can "inflate" prices all you want and the dollar can be worth shit but if on average we can only afford roughly prices from a year 2000 GPU... then unless we as consumers spend money we don't have like the federal government we simply won't buy high end products (can't afford inflated prices) and either hold onto hardware much longer on average and eventually save up for the big hit years later on high end GPU and/or we buy as often but only buy mid-range products that are now priced as high end products.

 

[rtwjunkie]

if it turn out to be correct, this card simply cannibalize everything Nvidia has. Provided the card has necessary amount of performance

I thank you partially just in hopes you're right in such wishful thinking. Not saying you're wrong or right, but man imagine a card soon that is 1080'ish in performance selling for anything under 400? Currently the cheapest 1080 is upwards of 650~ and custom high end cooling jobs are pushing 800 at times! So it would be a welcome change to get roughly that performance for barely half as much if it were within the next few months, if it is too much longer it may not have nearly the same effect.

Just don't get your hopes up. The logical and most business -oriented approach for AMD is to price up toward where 1080 is, at over $500...a good profit has to be made. But it's AMD, so really anything can happen and it's just as likely to be $450 or lower.

 

[dalekdukesboy]

Just don't get your hopes up. The logical and most business -oriented approach for AMD is to price up toward where 1080 is, at over $500...a good profit has to be made. But it's AMD, so really anything can happen and it's just as likely to be $450 or lower.

My hopes are up, but I'm not expecting miracles either. I'm just looking at the "facts" such as they are about the gpu/cpu's that AMD is working on releasing soon and both do have the potential to make a huge impact. That isn't an overstatement it's just a realistic expectation with everything we've seen. However, could either be priced higher than we would like or just aren't as good as advertised, time will tell...however still no harm in stipulating the possibilities, anything that's even a marginally better step forward on both fronts by AMD would go a long way in making us enthusiasts' much more...enthused.

 

[Kanan]

^This

Has anyone confirmed that VEGA is 16GB. If it is that might be part of the delay. GP100 is 4-Hi HBM2 in 3 (12GB) and 4 (16GB) stacks. If VEGA is 16GB using 2 stack that means its using 8-Hi HBM2. 8-Hi HBM2 didnt go into mass production until Q3-Q4.

UPDATE:

Maybe not.

If this is the consumer part, successor to Fury X/Fiji, it shure looks big and expensive with those 4x1 GB HBM2 stacks. I expect it to be priced over 500 bucks and be a competitor to GTX 1080 and 1070 (in a cut down version).

 

[Captain_Tom]

Just don't get your hopes up. The logical and most business -oriented approach for AMD is to price up toward where 1080 is, at over $500...a good profit has to be made. But it's AMD, so really anything can happen and it's just as likely to be $450 or lower.

You really are hitting the nail on the head - we just don't know for sure what this card will be, but anything is possible!

The only things we know for sure is that it will be stronger than the 1080, and be more efficient than the 480. That's all we know!


If I had to guess this will be over twice as strong as the 480, and therefore edge out the current Titan. Price? I would say $500 - $600 if my scenario comes true.

 

[Xzibit]

If this is the consumer part, successor to Fury X/Fiji, it shure looks big and expensive with those 4x1 GB HBM2 stacks. I expect it to be priced over 500 bucks and be a competitor to GTX 1080 and 1070 (in a cut down version).

I agree, I think they should aim at the $499 for a reference and let the AIBs go up from there.

 

[Captain_Tom]

I agree, I think they should aim at the $499 for a reference and let the AIBs go up from there.

If SAPPHIRE made a double VRAM toxic like they did with the 7970 - I would be all over it. (That card had 6GB of ram an was clocked 25% above stock! A Titan card you could buy in 2012!!!)

 

[EdInk]

My question is how much of all the new hardware features rely on software? Async compute was in the R9 290 and is barely used 4years later. Will buying Vega mean we get to utilise say, 70% of it true potential and the remaining is unlocked by well written code at a much later date?
I'd like AMD to demo the benefits of all these new feature. Its easy to confuse people with tech-speak.

 

[bug]

If SAPPHIRE made a double VRAM toxic like they did with the 7970 - I would be all over it. (That card had 6GB of ram an was clocked 25% above stock! A Titan card you could buy in 2012!!!)

If it's HBM, Sapphire can't install additional memory. Duh.

 

[Brusfantomet]

Just don't get your hopes up. The logical and most business -oriented approach for AMD is to price up toward where 1080 is, at over $500...a good profit has to be made. But it's AMD, so really anything can happen and it's just as likely to be $450 or lower.

Since its a multi chip module I don't think it will be under $600 at launch.
If it beats th 1080 and touches the titan, like what we are hoping for it will probably be $700+.

Nv will then be able to lower the price of the 1070/1080 to be competitive, since there is no way a complex chip solution like Vega is cheaper to make than a mature GP104, but it could aslo be that Nv wants to keep their good margins on the GP104 series.

 

[Liviu Cojocaru]

I can't wait for the final product, hopefully this will create some competition and we will see some more innovations in the future. If this is true, this as well will be an expensive card I don't think that we should expect this to be cheaper just because it's AMD remember that technology innovation costs money

 

[rtwjunkie]

Just don't discount the fact that RX 480 is also fairly complex, and can't be cheap to make, yet it is priced in the same range as the R9-380x was and is still.

Obviously, AMD is still willing to take a big hit individually; hoping that volume will make up for it.

 

[Brusfantomet]

Just don't discount the fact that RX 480 is also fairly complex, and can't be cheap to make, yet it is priced in the same range as the R9-380x was and is still.

Obviously, AMD is still willing to take a big hit individually; hoping that volume will make up for it.

True, but that is probably more because of the price of the 1060 and 1070. If AMD could charge more for their hardware they would, and the price gap between the 1080 and the Titan XP is quite big.

 

[the54thvoid]

Flagship Vega using current market conditions will go for well over $500. Possibly even $600. This is if it isn't as fast as 1080 (which we all mostly accept it is). Shareholders would not appreciate a product being sold at such low costs if it beats the current performance encumbent. For AMD to survive as a business it can't offer a Titan X leveling card for a 'consumer friendly' price. They didn't do it with Radeon Pro Duo, Nano, Fury X or 7970. If you look at their aspirations, they will aim high on pricing but not more than Nvidia.
I can easily see it matching 1080 price if it performs better than it. Which of course makes it the better card. But, it's not even out yet, might not appear till May/June and that means Nvidia can comfortably drop prices on a year old card. And as AMD release Vega in 1st Half this year, Nvidia might be able to release their Samsung Pascal refresh (if that process allows it?). Or, worse, the longer AMD takes to release Vega, when they do, Nvidia start dropping crumbs about Volta and how it is super dooper awesome.

What AMD are trying to do this year is fantastic and I understand why they are being so patient but the longer they wait to release makes it closer to their competitions next generational releases.

And please note, I would dearly love an AMD Ryzen chip with i76950 performance and a 1080 beating Vega in my next build.

 

[bug]

My guess is, AMD's new products will sell at prices aligned with the competition. Maybe slightly less.
Why? First, because AMD has been in the red for years and they need every penny they can get. Second, because the competition hasn't been in the red for years, the competition can afford to go into a price war and even sell at a loss for a while.
That goes for both CPUs and GPUs.

 

[Finners]

Just don't discount the fact that RX 480 is also fairly complex, and can't be cheap to make, yet it is priced in the same range as the R9-380x was and is still.

Obviously, AMD is still willing to take a big hit individually; hoping that volume will make up for it.

Why is the 480 any more complex than the 380x? Just looked up the die sizes and the 480 is considerably smaller so would expect it to be cheaper if anything.

Genuine question as it seems like a very conventional GPU.

 

[Kanan]

Why is the 480 any more complex than the 380x? Just looked up the die sizes and the 480 is considerably smaller so would expect it to be cheaper if anything.

Genuine question as it seems like a very conventional GPU.

Transistor count is much higher, you're talking about manufacturing costs that are maybe the same as 380(X).

 

[rtwjunkie]

Transistor count is much higher, you're talking about manufacturing costs that are maybe the same as 380(X).

You think? Color me surprised!

 

[Kanan]

You think? Color me surprised!

Well transistor count is up from 5 b to 5.7 billion and manufacturing costs are about the same or less because the gpu is smaller, 232 vs 366mm2 (cubic don't know how to do that on phone). The same maybe because 14nm costs more to manufacture, but I guess over time the costs are decreasing making it cheaper to manufacture too.

 

[fullinfusion]

Were you on integrated graphics, or are you planning on changing your CPU based on a GPU architecture announcement?

ROFL forgive me and thanks for pointing that out.. I was on the run and misinterpreted the headline. Can't edit my post and wth is with that @W1zzard ?

Anyway I correct my confusion and say welcome back AMD! Now stream roll the green team and see if wiz will give them a 9.9 or a 10 rating

 

[Captain_Tom]

True, but that is probably more because of the price of the 1060 and 1070. If AMD could charge more for their hardware they would, and the price gap between the 1080 and the Titan XP is quite big.

You're ignoring the fact that Gloflo's 14nm is a cheaper process than TSMC's 16nm.