Water Chiller - that's her modified for Subzero ;-)

[FireFox]

Especially Knoxx; having someone to bounce off/talk to about this has been great

What i haven't done in many years of Water cooling building you did it in a few months? And that's something admirable and impressive, well done @Nicholas Peyton

 

[silkstone]

Frost just seems to dissipate (sometimes it turns into a bit of moisture, which I just wipe away)

Only seeing it at the 'compression fittings' really (I could easily add a bit more Armaflex -- but I kind of like it; none of the fittings are positioned to allow dribble onto important areas).

oh & I finally broke through
2303 MHZ on GTX 1080 (*stock* boost on a Nvidia Founders Edition 1080 is 1733 MHZ)

View attachment 83313

Not entirely stable but it was a quick dirty run, at stock voltages and only -4 water temp

I need to revisit the back of the PCB next, before I push lower.

P.S. not tried anything with the CPU yet. Not had time. I will tomorrow

Very nice.

If I were you, I'd still work on getting rid of the frost. Water has a nasty habit of finding its way everywhere (it's an inherent property).

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

Very nice.

If I were you, I'd still work on getting rid of the frost. Water has a nasty habit of finding its way everywhere (it's an inherent property).

thanks

yeah, true ;-)

Plenty Armaflex, left over, lol:

FAO: I never bought the Armaflex from Aqua-Tuning, (that box is just laying there)-- its terribly expensive from Aqua-tuning.. I ordered 0.5m x 4m from a company called 'pipelagging'




I actually initially bought it to insulate the Chiller (to swing every last shred of performance out of her) lol: (it ended up being INVALUABLE to help insulating everything else including blocks - it's self adhesive)

Anyone know how I'd mod it further, to increase its 'cooling power' without spending £££££ ?

It draws up to 350w from wall but seems to calm down and only draws 225w after being on a while

Anyone know what the lowest possible temperature is for a fridge/freezer/water chiller that uses R134a gas as the refrigerant? (in theory)?

I can't seem to get lower than -8c water temp, (despite insulating the tank) and switching the PC off and only running the pump.

The Chiller has a 1/2 HP compressor and a huge evaporator (and you can see from the pics above the tank is MUCH smaller than a regular freezer). It's rated at 790w cooling capacity.

A regular chest freezer probably only has a 1/6 HP (horse power) compressor (and a smaller evaporator & smaller condenser); so I don't understand why I can't get lower.

The flow-rate also seems to decrease considerably by about -4, but I can clearly see the fluid still moving around the system, (especially in my EK reservoir/pump combo).

I have enough coolant (glycol) mixed in to allow as low as -14c before freezing.

Trying to understand what is going on. As I said; even with the PC off (only running the pump) the water temp still won't go below -8c

I can get that low with the PC powered on (and idling). If I bench only the CPU or only the GPU the chiller also does a good job at holding -8c.... just can't get below it

 

[Mr.Scott]

How warm is the compressor? Point a box fan at it.

 

[FireFox]

Don't forget that your Chiller HC-500a and my Chiller HC-250a are both rated to operate to a minimum of 4c and you got it to run at -8, that's 12c difference.

Anyone know what the lowest possible temperature is for a fridge/freezer/water chiller that uses R134a gas as the refrigerant? (in theory)?

A Chiller it's not a Freezer, Chiller is simply a smaller, weaker Refrigerator/fridge, a freezer is colder than a refrigerator/fridge,
so far as i know the R134a gas refrigerant can reach -26c what it means that shouldn't be the problem,

I have a much thicker coolant too. About 25% of the mix will be glycol product & 75% distilled.

The glycol that you are using with the destilled water is it pure or mixed with something else? maybe the glycol with destilled water it's not enough and that's what is holding the temperature back, or maybe you need to use more glycol and less destilled water.

( This is only a hypothesis )



Maybe you need a bigger unit like the HC- 1000A or maybe the Chiller has reached it's limits?

I have found this:

Think this way: both the refrigerator and the freezer are working based on the same concept, but one is doing 4-8C and is called refrigerator; the other is doing -20C and is called a freezer..

You should read this:

https://rog.asus.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-34649.html

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

Thanks.

A refrigerator and a freezer work in the exact same way. Same technology. The only difference is the thermostat. (as far as I know).

You could turn a refrigerator into a freezer and vice versa simply by changing the thermostat out.

Last time I had the chiller to subzero the compressor was actually cold (and frost started to appear on the bottom of the compressor; but only at the bottom/front of it).

I'll double check tonight and make sure I have that right (about if the compressor is warm or not).

I read that rog.asus link. Some guys are claiming to get down past -35c and Mayhems claims their coolants work down to -58c in "re-circulating chillers". So it must be possible.

My Chiller is still a lot more powerful than even a 200L chest freezer. (which probably only has a 1/4 HP compressor).

I've been thinking; about how the flow rate decreases when I get down quite low (despite the fact the water hasn't actually frozen).... I wonder if the water at the bottom of the Chillers tank is becoming frozen (while the water at the top continues to cycle around my loop).

The mixture I have just now; only allows for -14c. So its possible.... I might try adding some more coolant and seeing if that gets me a few more degrees. If it does - I'll know what the issue is. I've got another 500mL here (which is enough to get to -20). If water in the bottom is freezing first (with 6c between *still re-circulating water* and water getting frozen in the bottom of the tank) that should be enough to get to -14).


I'll let you know how I get on



Edit: (important)
Been carrying on with research tonight and it looks like "Frost" isn't conductive.

Pure water isn't actually conductive. Distilled water isn't even conductive. But distilled water loses its purity as soon as it is combined with air as ions form in the water. It is the free movement of ions in water that allows it to be conductive.

Since ice is frozen solid the ions aren't free, there for ICE is actually a very poor conductor. (as is frost).

This is a good knowledge to have, as usually only frost has been forming on my equipment. It only gets wet when I allow the water temperature to rise again.

On future runs, I plan to switch the computer off before allowing the frost to thaw.

 

[DR4G00N]

The coolant freezing would be a possibility. Though I think it might just be the glycol thickening as it gets cold and reducing the flow rate, mine does the same.

You could also just be at the limit of what the compressor & condenser can do. My chiller has a 2HP rotary compressor w/ R22 gas and gets down to -24C (or around 40C below ambient).

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

The coolant freezing would be a possibility. Though I think it might just be the glycol thickening as it gets cold and reducing the flow rate, mine does the same.

You could also just be at the limit of what the compressor & condenser can do. My chiller has a 2HP rotary compressor w/ R22 gas and gets down to -24C (or around 40C below ambient).

@DR4G00N What chiller do you have?

aye, I just read somewhere that in a system using R134a gas, the cooling efficiency takes a drop after -7. I'm not a refrigeration engineer so I'm not sure why. They were talking about the system "running in a vacuum" but I've no idea what that means really or the science behind it (or even if I was interpreting it correctly).

I aimed an extra case fan at the condenser (helping the fan already there). Think Mr Scott might of been thinking back, years ago, last time he done it and meant, the condenser.

The compressor is cold (and the chiller isn't even blowing out warm air anymore.. its blowing out cold air).

I managed to get to -10c tonight, by down-clocking my CPU and undervolting it to 1.0v and running both CPU & GPU in idle.

-I also insulated the rest of the fittings and any other metal bits, that were showing.

-And added an extra 500ml of glycol. (Meaning I should be able to get to about -28c).

But still can't get past -10c. This seems to be the limit of what my Chiller can do.

Still don't understand how a 200L freezer, with a 1/5th HP compressor, manages to get to -22c. When I can only get to -10, on a system with a 1/2 HP compressor, (a huge evaporator) and a condenser that is aided by a fan!!

I think it must be due to insulation. But there isn't anymore I can do insulation wise.. I even insulated the inside of the bloody chiller.

Quite disappointed; I could of saved about £40 on coolant if I knew I was only going to get to -9.

I was aiming to get 2300 MHZ (2302MHZ) stable on my GTX 1080. I got to fucking 2189MHZ. lol. Another 10c would of got me stable at 2300MHZ.

I can get a 30s run but it crashes everytime.

SO F******G CLOSE! argh!!

 

[thesmokingman]

You dont use mineral oil. There is a new synthetic fluid from 3M that doesnt leave any residue on the hardware. Its designed for immersion cooling large data centers.

My tank is almost done:

Still need to get it in a case and make a chiller for the fluid.

Flourinert. Damn that stuff is expensive. The DOD uses like 50 thousand gallons of it too haha.

 

[basco]

i am still sanding with dont buy a bigger chiller.
if you are not satisfied now then go with a singlestage.
you need moaar cooling power-yeah

but hats off to what you have already done

 

[DOM]

Your wrong on the freezer getting Colder then your chiller, do you think that frezzer can keep your rig that cold?

Back in the days i put my wcing rig in the ice box type frezzers and guess what happen the frost along the walls inside stared to melt

So are you giving the card more volts?

 

[FireFox]

You could turn a refrigerator into a freezer and vice versa simply by changing the thermostat out.

It's not said that if you turn a fridge into a freezer or vice versa it will work, they may work in the exact way but the components/hardware or whatever it is are not built in the same way, i guess that the freezer's components in some way are built differently.

 

[jaggerwild]

@nick
Id be careful using plactic res while going sub zero, or any plastic for that matter....................................But what do I know

 

[FireFox]

@nick
Id be careful using plactic res while going sub zero, or any plastic for that matter....................................But what do I know

You quoted the wrong user ( @nick )

@Nicholas Peyton

As i told you before you have done an impressive job, now all what i can suggest you is to try a different Coolant? and as i have said before too maybe the Chiller has reached it's limit/capacity, one more thing, maybe you're not mixing the right amount of Glycol and destilled water.

Note: if i wouldn't have a 500€ motherboard and a 850€ Graphic Card i would try the Subzero temp.

 

[Mr.Scott]

Edit: (important)
Been carrying on with research tonight and it looks like "Frost" isn't conductive.

LOL. If that were actually true you wouldn't be insulating your components.

 

[FireFox]

LOL. If that were actually true you wouldn't be insulating your components.

+1

Exactly.

 

[DR4G00N]

@DR4G00N What chiller do you have?

Mine was made from an old (and free) 5000BTU window air conditioner. Rechi 39R131D (R22) compressor with a 192 cubic inch condenser (16x12x1) and a 28cm 900RPM fan. The evaporator is around 100 to 120 ci and it chills ~10 to 15L of coolant down to -24C after a few hours.



Getting down to around -8c is not too bad for that honestly considering it was not designed with the intent to go below 0c at all let alone with a heat load placed on it. The fact that the condenser is not producing any noticeable heat basically means what you have is the best your going to get.

 

[jaggerwild]

@Knoxx29
You'll do well to get a real Water Pump/rad/res/blocks, as they will out preform what ever that unit is that someone sold you.

 

[FireFox]

Mine was made from an old (and free) 5000BTU window air conditioner. Rechi 39R131D (R22) compressor with a 192 cubic inch condenser (16x12x1) and a 28cm 900RPM fan. The evaporator is around 100 to 120 ci and it chills ~10 to 15L of coolant down to -24C after a few hours.



Getting down to around -8c is not too bad for that honestly considering it was not designed with the intent to go below 0c at all let alone with a heat load placed on it. The fact that the condenser is not producing any noticeable heat basically means what you have is the best your going to get.

Let's say that is the same thing i am telling him but with different words.

@Knoxx29
You'll do well to get a real Water Pump/rad/res/blocks, as they will out preform what ever that unit is that someone sold you.

Why are you telling this?

 

[DR4G00N]

Let's say that is the same thing i am telling him but with different words.

It doesn't hurt anything to have more than one opinion on the matter.

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

Ice isnt conductive. But it doesnt turn to ice (frost) straight away.

There's a period (time lapse) before it turns to ice where the moisture could still do damage. Also not all areas are frosty. The VRM side of the car tends to accumulate moisture while the I/O side gets frosty.

So i still need to insulate.

Regarding not being able to get lower. (And "do i think a freezer could keep my components that cold" -- i see what you mean, but the point i was making is even when I ONLY run the pump (with PC powered down) i still can't seem to get lower than -10c. (That was the comparison i was making with a freezer; i wasn't taking the heat output of the PC into account) .

Also i think you're all right!! I have reached the limit of my chiller.

I suppose 2 weeks ago i would of been delighted to have gotten this far!!

But i ger to -10 now i want more.

The chiller cost £200 on Ebay. (250 U.S dollars). -10 for £200 (not counting cost of coolant and shipping and insulation) is not bad at all.

Someone siggested buying a phase chsnge system. Those cost £1000+ and only do the CPU. My chiller cost £200. And does GPU too.

So never going to happen.

Maybe the next step for me is DRY ICE.

On the other hand I was SOO CLOSE to getting to my target overclock of 2300 MHZ on my GTX 1080.

If anyone can think of any way of getting another 10c-15c out the chiller please share

What about changing the gas to R22?

 

[FireFox]

Also i think you're all right!! I have reached the limit of my chiller.

It doesn't matter if you have the Machine on
or off.

Someone siggested buying a phase chsnge system. Those cost £1000+ and only do the CPU. My chiller cost £200.

So never going to happen.

I agree with you.

 

[Nicholas Peyton]

Soneone said when i begun this experiment that i wanted "MORE COOLING NOW" and that actually made me smile.

I seen the funny side to it.

And now that im at -10c and i STILL WANT MORE COOLING NOW!! it is even more comical. Lol.

 

[DR4G00N]

What about changing the gas to R22? But R22 isnt even legally sold in the U.K anymore so another gas? I'm not sure.
R134a was brought out as it does less damage to the ozone layer. But costs u more on ur electricity bill due being less efficient.

The compressor may not work with any other type of gas, it may work okay or it may blow it up.

Changing the gas yourself would be quite an undertaking. You would need to do many things to it like brazing on high & low side service ports as well as have the equipment on hand to drain, flush, vacuum & then recharge the system with the appropriate amount of gas (or gas mixture) and oil.
Not worth doing unless you already have everything.

For that unit it would be not worth doing anyway since it has a relatively weak compressor.

////

A single-stage phase change unit is not too expensive if you can do it yourself or have a buddy that has HVAC experience. Old used 5000 to 10000 BTU window a/c units are good for phase change units as they can be bought locally for dirt cheap. If the unit is strong enough you can even put multiple evap blocks in parallel to cool both the cpu & gpu.

 

[FireFox]

I was aiming to get 2300 MHZ (2302MHZ) stable on my GTX 1080. I got to fucking 2189MHZ. lol. Another 10c would of got me stable at 2300MHZ.

You mean 2189MHz max boost?