The Power of Marketing - AMD's Ryzen Hype Train Hyperloops On

[infrared]

It's fact though. Most "tech journalists" never attended college to become a journalist, and do not have actual journalistic credentials. Please do keep this in the context of the post I responded to.

I'm not saying I have that education either, but the fact of the matter is that actual journalists, the ones that went to school to get that job, aren't talking about anything AMD, because they weren't really excited by this event. Actual news journals have very little to say about AMD< and are too busy with other "topics".

If you honestly believe that Ryzen isn't worthy of news then I have no respect at all for your opinion any longer. It's been a long time since the cpu market had a shake up, this is the first time I've actually been excited about a new product launch, because until now it's all been the same companies and minor improvements.

Edit: and keeping it in context of your comment about Linus.. Yep, I think you are a dick for making that comment. Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

I screwed up, misread cadaveca's post. Please ignore.

 

[cadaveca]

If you honestly believe that Ryzen isn't worthy of news then I have no respect at all for your opinion any longer. It's been a long time since the cpu market had a shake up, this is the first time I've actually been excited about a new product launch, because until now it's all been the same companies and minor improvements.

That's not what I was saying, and why I mentioned that my post was in a specific context. I am merely speaking about how this hype is always overblown. It's because this hype isn't relayed by actual journalists. As enthusiasts, we do not read journalists, because they don't really exist in our industry.

I have no actual opinion on Ryzen itself until I get my test chips (which will be real soon). I expect it to do well, but am afraid it'll do so well that it'll sell out, and then retailers will gouge us on pricing.

 

[infrared]

Sigh.. You need to be a lot more clear if that is what you were originally trying to convey.

 

[springs113]

Sigh.. You need to be a lot more clear if that is what you were originally trying to convey.

Not picking on you or anything but i just read through the last few replies between you all and understood what Dave meant. I think we are all too sensitive at times, instead of just analyzing or read with understanding, we take things at face value when we shouldn't and get way ahead of ourselves. I conveyed what both were trying to say without thinking anyone was attacking anyone (Linus included). I for one took up business major as one of my studies in school which required that journalistic traits be learned as well(comes with marketing), and i can tell you the tech industry does not really have journalists reporting the ins and outs like say football. One thing I'd revert from doing though is name calling. Each and everyone here is entitled to their op, whether it's right or wrong. I for one do or say certain things to make it seem like i don't know something just to see how I'd be treated in the response to my questions. Treat others how you'd want to be treated.

 

[cadaveca]

Sigh.. You need to be a lot more clear if that is what you were originally trying to convey.

I had the thread's topic in mind all the time.

 

[Prima.Vera]

Another proof that people are easily brainwashed, not with the facts, but with dreams and hopes.
It's the same in politics and day to day life...

 

[BackSlash]

No matter what I'll replace...
My FX-8350 with 1700x :O
My Crosshair V for the new CrossHair VII
My G-Skill 16GB for some G-Skill Trident-Z 16 Gb too
My SanDisk SSD for Crusial SSD M.2 version.
...I'll rebuild all my rig!

Good luck people.

 

[Kanan]

Ryzen will be a success, I'm more sure than ever. Information is laid out more than enough, some people just have a hard time seeing it.

This is a big win for us, Ryzen will finally bury the eternal ultra expensive 4/8 Core/Thread mini-chips of Intel. Intel will be forced to bring 6-8 Core to the consumer platform or they can completely stay away. No one will buy their overpriced shit again after affordable 6-8 Cores from AMD. Capitalism at its worst, that was what Intel did, it will be over for good soon.

 

[infrared]

Not picking on you or anything but i just read through the last few replies between you all and understood what Dave meant. I think we are all too sensitive at times, instead of just analyzing or read with understanding, we take things at face value when we shouldn't and get way ahead of ourselves. I conveyed what both were trying to say without thinking anyone was attacking anyone (Linus included). I for one took up business major as one of my studies in school which required that journalistic traits be learned as well(comes with marketing), and i can tell you the tech industry does not really have journalists reporting the ins and outs like say football. One thing I'd revert from doing though is name calling. Each and everyone here is entitled to their op, whether it's right or wrong. I for one do or say certain things to make it seem like i don't know something just to see how I'd be treated in the response to my questions. Treat others how you'd want to be treated.

Thank you for that. Hit the nail on the head with that post

I had the thread's topic in mind all the time.

Ok, after reading springs' post I decided to re-read those posts and I agree, I jumped the gun on this one. Sorry for misunderstanding and flying off the handle at you cadaveca, I totally missed what you meant.

 

[kn00tcn]

really? 'best seller' at the end of february after holiday season is supposed to mean something!? more like only seller... who is buying intel right now? they would have already gotten it earlier

 

[scabzy]

i am a die-hard Intel hater but i still dont trust AMD with Lisa Su as a boss.

why let people preorder before having benchmarks of independent revierws?.. that just makes me worry.

AMD opened pre-orders for Ryzen because of OEMs and System Builders, who need more data to negociate/quantify the volume they order, since the last AMD latform was like a decade ago...hence pre-orders...(this is what Rya shrout, from pcper said after he spoke to AMD about pre-orders)
Ryzen is the CPU to have in 2017, brings 8cores/16 threads to the mainstream after years of intel embedding in ppl's minds that it's out of reach to most and is a super elite enthusiast grade CPU...
not only multi-threading is more efficient than intel's, the IPC is better than anyone could have thought, me included.

 

[Foobario]

Looking at AMD's yields, I don't think that process has much maturing to do at all. All said though, why people are expecting an 8 core part to clock past 4Ghz is beyond me anyway - nothing from Intel past 4 cores clocks all that well past 4Ghz anyway (with max stock turbo's being around 3.7Ghz on 6 core and dropping), and AMD's top 8 Core part is coming with a stock 4.1Ghz XFR clock. And if pricing leaks on 4 core parts are to be believed, I dont know who will care at that point either considering half the price of a 7700k and still OC's.

So you've had access to AMD's yield numbers? Only the most closely guarded secret of any chip company.

You think day one, or week one yields for AMD are as good as it gets? Keeping in mind that Intel has struggled mightily on the 14nm node and the only difference between each "generational" release by Intel has been the upping of clockspeeds.

Somehow, I find it hard to believe that little ole AMD has hit out of the park on day one when it has taken Intel over two years to get a firm grasp on perfection.

 

[Camm]

So you've had access to AMD's yield numbers? Only the most closely guarded secret of any chip company.

You think day one, or week one yields for AMD are as good as it gets? Keeping in mind that Intel has struggled mightily on the 14nm node and the only difference between each "generational" release by Intel has been the upping of clockspeeds.

Somehow, I find it hard to believe that little ole AMD has hit out of the park on day one when it has taken Intel over two years to get a firm grasp on perfection.

We don't have direct yields, but we have shipment numbers. That number is slightly over 1 million chips being shipped this month. That sort of capacity is hard to do unless you have good yields.

 

[scabzy]

Ryzen will be a success, I'm more sure than ever. Information is laid out more than enough, some people just have a hard time seeing it.

This is a big win for us, Ryzen will finally bury the eternal ultra expensive 4/8 Core/Thread mini-chips of Intel. Intel will be forced to bring 6-8 Core to the consumer platform or they can completely stay away. No one will buy their overpriced shit again after affordable 6-8 Cores from AMD. Capitalism at its worst, that was what Intel did, it will be over for good soon.

1-dont be so sure, some ppl are really stupid, they like being beaten by a stick, they either have blind brand loyality, or no vision of how things work, but i do believe some SKUs from intel will keep a good value, for some ppl who look after value.
2-intel bribed and intimidated her way to lock AMD out of the market place in early 2000's, they got sued and had to pay AMD 1.4billion $ in anti-trust suit in 2009, while intel during all this time made 100 times more money, and they almost buried their competitor for other a decade, this is a win win situation for intel...financialy, so dont be surprised if they did it again, what do they have to lose ? 10% of their quarter revenue ? still 100 times better than losing 10% market share in desktop-server-mobile because of Ryzen.

 

[scabzy]

We don't have direct yields, but we have shipment numbers. That number is slightly over 1 million chips being shipped this month. That sort of capacity is hard to do unless you have good yields.

+ AMD releasing Top end lineup first, a month or 2 before 6core/12thread parts, shows how good the yields are, they need more time to have enough defective parts for 6 cores part.

 

[Kanan]

1-dont be so sure, some ppl are really stupid, they like being beaten by a stick, they either have blind brand loyality, or no vision of how things work, but i do believe some SKUs from intel will keep a good value, for some ppl who look after value.
2-intel bribed and intimidated her way to lock AMD out of the market place in early 2000's, they got sued and had to pay AMD 1.4billion $ in anti-trust suit in 2009, while intel during all this time made 100 times more money, and they almost buried their competitor for other a decade, this is a win win situation for intel...financialy, so dont be surprised if they did it again, what do they have to lose ? 10% of their quarter revenue ? still 100 times better than losing 10% market share in desktop-server-mobile because of Ryzen.

a) I'm sure. No way to change that. Read again what I wrote.
b) Intel can't repeat that, AMD is not the same company that they were before and OEM's are already doing big business with AMD and Ryzen, so that won't be repeated for sure.
also
c) Intel wouldn't risk to get sued again, the paycheck would be a lot higher this time.
d) don't double post, learn to edit posts / multi quote.

 

[nem..]

Don't hold your breath. Before Core 2 Duo, when Intel was consistently pwned by AMD Athlon64/FX/X2, Intel stuck to its price-points for the Pentium D and Pentium Extreme Edition. IIRC, you still had to shell out $999 for the Extreme Edition of that time, even through it was pwned by a $250 Athlon64 X2 model.

 

[Camm]

View attachment 84532

I too can cherry pick benchmarks from old Anandtech Articles

 

[Mescalamba]

Intel gets the top spots: Great products
Nvidia gets the top spots: Great products
AMD gets the top spots: Great Marketing

Some ex-AMD customers might be.. less than happy with them.

See, I started my PC venture with Intel and nVidia back then.. (thats back then 98 or so). Then I changed stuff pretty much depending what gave most power for bucks (or just what gave most power, since I had stuff like R9800Pro modded to XT and such). I usually moved from manufacturer when they made something that gave me good reason to buy something else (some early rebranding of nVidia stuff, some driver-cheating stuff).

Lately (from 2009 or so) I had exclusively AMD (ATi) graphic cards. Some were good, some were less good.. and in recent years they sorta were not really good at all. I had constant driver issues, software not working, games bugged out, memory leaks here and there.

It wasnt like power isnt there, power was there, just delivery system was somehow not working for me. So I tried to switch brands (not really interested in true power, just bang for bucks and stability prefered, sure I OC stuff, but only reasonably).

And bang, moved to nVidia. No problems, everything works.

Also I had AMD CPU for some time, yea well equivalents of Intel, graphs there, graphs here.. in practice (games and some software which aint that CPU heavy) it sorta ended in not being really equivalent just "cant afford real stuff". So X58 and bye bye AMD. Again no problems..

I had similar story about having Intel SSD first.. and then everything else later (TBH I didnt pay much attention to them, just bought whatever was fastest supposedly), well lets say that in practice its not always what graphs say and there are other attributes to even those SSDs that somehow are not always (if ever) mentioned in reviews. Sometimes due manifesting themselves over time.

Probably reason why I have server grade HDDs and not generic consumers ones. Bit fond of my data (especially after two consumer HDDs managed to die within 3 or 6 months).

Reviews are always only part of the story. What cant be guessed from review is how reliable will be performance of particular piece of HW. How long it will last, how much compatibility issues will there be. How good will be drivers or how bad.

Im not picking sides. Just from my recent-ish past experience, AMD didnt show with most reliable stuff, so they would need to show something truly great for me to actually buy CPU from them (and obviously mobo). Which would also require some decent manufacturer to make one (and there is only very few of them).

Might be just me, might be others. And as for marketing.. well AMD is good at that. Delivering product lately? Not that much.

 

[heflys20]

Sorry to hear, I've owned AMD/INTEL/ATI/Nvidia (and probably something in between). Never had problem with anything. Had a Nvidia card die on me once though (back in 1999-2000ish). I think the fan went out and it kept overheating.

I still remember updating Interstate 76 to support graphics cards (in this case, 3dfx). Seems laughable now.

 

[springs113]

AMD opened pre-orders for Ryzen because of OEMs and System Builders, who need more data to negociate/quantify the volume they order, since the last AMD latform was like a decade ago...hence pre-orders...(this is what Rya shrout, from pcper said after he spoke to AMD about pre-orders)
Ryzen is the CPU to have in 2017, brings 8cores/16 threads to the mainstream after years of intel embedding in ppl's minds that it's out of reach to most and is a super elite enthusiast grade CPU...
not only multi-threading is more efficient than intel's, the IPC is better than anyone could have thought, me included.

I for one have lost faith in pcper, they've definitely come off as Intel shills and i say that with the utmost respect for what they do and the things they know. I know we all have our favorites but they are/were always throwing amd under the bus...even with this ryzen platform. I for one (is) glad ryzen's here. My 5930k platform will now become my dedicated editing rig and my ryzen platform will be my gaming. I just need a better selection of mobo, i need something comparable to my rampage v edition, the crosshair just isn't don't it for me. I would settle for a formula 9 equivalent. I thought about going the taichi, fatality or xpower titanium route but i need a little bit more.

 

[Frick]

That's a really shitty thing to say... Not impressed.

LTT is a shitty place and Linus is a shitty guy. Fair's fair.

What I hope for is people dumping their Haswell i3's/i5's. I need more threads for little money.

Sigh.. You need to be a lot more clear if that is what you were originally trying to convey.

Yes, that exactly is dave's failing in all his posts. That and subtle pride and arrogance.

 

[medi01]

7700k down to £331.59 from £415.99 on amazon uk.

at the end of february after holiday season

Holiday season is mostly US thing. Not applicable to most of EU.

How good will be drivers or how bad.

Come one, it's 2017, for last couple of years nVidia was screwing up drivers regularly, while AMD was steadily improving on both quality and adding more features. Don't project your experience from 2009 to 2017.

That's another problem with subjective "oh, it doesn't work" things. Evidence is rather anecdotal, failure rate is never 0%, so even most reliable <whatever> can upset some unlucky customer into "won't buy that again".
Never had any sort of issue with any CPU (and am always pretty clear what the feck to expect from chip I'm buying), can hardly recall any issue ever with GPUs (I sure am not the most active gamer out there, I admit). Had issues with mem compatibility on an ASUS board (when two different mem sets kept BSODing machine, while passing all memtests, mind boggling). Should I conclude "ASUS mainboards suck"? Nah.

 

[GoFigureItOut]

Looking back when AMD launched the FX chips back in 2011, they released similar images comparing it to Intel, and if I remember correctly, the FX CPU's were either neck and neck in some benchmarks, or it pulled out ahead. When people finally got their hands on them, they were disappointed!

Is that what people are expecting with RyZen? It's all hype?

 

[kruk]

Looking back when AMD launched the FX chips back in 2011, they released similar images comparing it to Intel, and if I remember correctly, the FX CPU's were either neck and neck in some benchmarks, or it pulled out ahead. When people finally got their hands on them, they were disappointed!

Is that what people are expecting with RyZen? It's all hype?

Very simplified: Zen is AMDs version of Intel's Core architecture. AMD has addressed Bulldozer weaknesses and there is little reason to expect another disappointment.

Just four more days and the truth will be revealed!