• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel's Skylake-X, Kaby Lake-X HEDT CPUs to use TIM; Won't be Soldered

Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.21/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
No, he definitely means 44.


-4 for the chipset interface means 40 for you to use or 24 for the i7 7820K , one can do two full bandwith dual gpus , one cannot and given their both HEDT thats not good enough to me, neither is Shitty tim for direct mounting a IHS.
good luck selling a shit ton of these intel, the potential for customer(admittedly uneducated) complaint here due to this memory slot wont work or pciex wont work is ridiculous.

oh look an official intel slide, showing what they planned with the added "shit threadripper you guys, tut" additions that you cant buy for another few months pretty much slapped on top.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
9 (0.00/day)
System Name Workhorse
Processor Ryzen 1800X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VI Hero
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB
Video Card(s) Gainward GTX1080
Storage 3xSSDs, 2xHDD
Display(s) PG279Q
Case NZXT H2
Audio Device(s) Powercolor Devil HDX
Power Supply Dark Power Pro 10
Mouse G700
Keyboard Logitech Illuminated Kb
I guess delid tool will be bundled with CPUs.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,489 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
I really had trouble believing this when it was first posted.

I'll be frank: I'm flabberghasted. This is so dumb it's having me on the verge of going Ryzen just in protest.
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
2,355 (0.50/day)
System Name msdos
Processor 8086
Motherboard mainboard
Cooling passive
Memory 640KB + 384KB extended
Video Card(s) EGA
Storage 5.25"
Display(s) 80x25
Case plastic
Audio Device(s) modchip
Power Supply 45 watts
Mouse serial
Keyboard yes
Software disk commander
Benchmark Scores still running
Well it at least seems like xmas for the hedt crowd, it's raining skus.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,499 (6.03/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
System Name Tiny the White Yeti
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling CPU: Thermalright Peerless Assassin / Case: Phanteks T30-120 x3
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
VR HMD HD 420 - Green Edition ;)
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
112w TDP on an i5. You wot?

Nothing to see here, this is Intel doing an 'old AMD' yelling 'MOAR CORES' and 'HIGHER CLOCKS'.... with all the added goodness of higher power consumption. This isn't progress, it's a step back. It is poverty on Intel's part.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.21/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
112w TDP on an i5. You wot?

Nothing to see here, this is Intel doing an 'old AMD' yelling 'MOAR CORES' and 'HIGHER CLOCKS'.... with all the added goodness of higher power consumption. This isn't progress, it's a step back. It is poverty on Intel's part.
I didn't see that ,that is quite high for four non Ht cores ,in fact insanely high.
Only 16 pciex channels and dual channel memory too , doesn't sound appealing.
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
261 (0.07/day)
I really had trouble believing this when it was first posted.

I'll be frank: I'm flabberghasted. This is so dumb it's having me on the verge of going Ryzen just in protest.

Depending how the benchmarks turn out, it may be less of a protest and more of just a smart decision. I am with you though... if everyone simply refused to buy these CPU's and instead just did a big sh*t in a box and sent it to Intel's head office, they might actually pay attention. Of course, this won't happen, but one can dream.

Anyone buying X299 is part of the problem, you're just enabling them. Why the hell are they ever going to do any different if they can make more money cutting corners? No business man in their right mind wouldn't advocate this strategy, so if you insist on buying Intel, accept that you will eat their sh*t and stop complaining.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
2,987 (0.78/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X ||| Intel Core i7-3930K
Motherboard ASUS ProArt B550-CREATOR ||| Asus P9X79 WS
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S ||| Be Quiet Pure Rock
Memory Crucial 2 x 16 GB 3200 MHz ||| Corsair 8 x 8 GB 1333 MHz
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1060 3GB ||| MSI GTX 680 4GB
Storage Samsung 970 PRO 512 GB + 1 TB ||| Intel 545s 512 GB + 256 GB
Display(s) Asus ROG Swift PG278QR 27" ||| Eizo EV2416W 24"
Case Fractal Design Define 7 XL x 2
Audio Device(s) Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
Power Supply Seasonic Focus PX-850 x 2
Mouse Razer Abyssus
Keyboard CM Storm QuickFire XT
Software Ubuntu
Those CPUs are joke. TIM, 28 lanes and up to 11MB cache... lol
http://images.anandtech.com/galleri...rocessor_family_near_final-page-016_575px.jpg
Skylake-X has a redesigned cache hierarchy. At least since Nehalem, Intel have used inclusive L3 caches, which means that everything in L2 is duplicated in L3, the purpose of this is when multiple threads accesses the same cache line, accessing it from L3 is much faster than system memory. The cache can contain either data or code. In real life data is usually present in the cache for microseconds or less, contrary to popular belief, the "important stuff" is not retained in the cache. So for data the L2/L3 cache is just a streaming buffer, constantly changing it's content as the threads processes the data. Usually >90% of the cache or so is data, and since cache lines are constantly replaced, multiple threads basically share nearly "nothing". In essence, the inclusive L3 cache is wasting almost 256kB per core.

Making the L3 non-inclusive and exchanging some of it for more L2 cache will increase cache usage, and may help some use cases quite a bit.

-----

And why is 28 PCIe lanes a problem? It doesn't matter for gaming, even in SLI. Anyone needing more PCIe lanes would be doing some serious compute workloads, and would require one of the more expensive CPUs anyway.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
822 (0.27/day)
Location
Riverwood, Skyrim
System Name Storm Wrought | Blackwood (HTPC)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900x @stock | i7 2600k
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro WIFI m-ITX | Some POS gigabyte board
Cooling Deepcool AK620, BQ shadow wings 3 High Spd, stock 180mm |BQ Shadow rock LP + 4x120mm Noctua redux
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x32GB 4000MHz | 2x4GB 2000MHz @1866
Video Card(s) Powercolor RX 6800XT Red Dragon | PNY a2000 6GB
Storage SX8200 Pro 1TB, 1TB KC3000, 850EVO 500GB, 2+8TB Seagate, LG Blu-ray | 120GB Sandisk SSD, 4TB WD red
Display(s) Samsung UJ590UDE 32" UHD monitor | LG CS 55" OLED
Case Silverstone TJ08B-E | Custom built wooden case (Aus native timbers)
Audio Device(s) Onboard, Sennheiser HD 599 cans / Logitech z163's | Edifier S2000 MKIII via toslink
Power Supply Corsair HX 750 | Corsair SF 450
Mouse Microsoft Pro Intellimouse| Some logitech one
Keyboard GMMK w/ Zelio V2 62g (78g for spacebar) tactile switches & Glorious black keycaps| Some logitech one
VR HMD HTC Vive
Software Win 10 Edu | Ubuntu 22.04
Benchmark Scores Look in the various benchmark threads
Congratulations, you made everyone go and ask WTF to the max, especially with pricing and the lack of soldering for such expensive CPUs. I guess it is time for AMD to be Ryzen above the competition
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
123 (0.03/day)
I have to wonder, does intel use crap tim because they plan on somewhere down the track replacing the TIM with 'better tim v1', then 'better tim v2', then 'better tim v3' etc?

With each successive tim, they get an extra 100mhz, and the ability to call it the 'next generation', eventually eking out the processors to somewhere just over 5ghz.

But, they won't start this slow progression til they exhaust all other avenues to processor improvements... (i.e. it's a few to several years away).

They will milk the consumers with other 'new generation' chips along the way (smaller nodes) til they hit the limit. And this ability to replace the tim provides them a few more years of 'new generation' chips on top.

i.e. Their holding an ace up the sleeve (or more appropriate, the joker).
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,371 (3.55/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
The reality is, that many seem to miss, is that delidding really doesnt get many people much. Even a 20C drop (way way towards the high end and a minority result) may yield you 100mhz, maybe 200 mhz... if you are lucky. Best not be voltage limited/at the voltage wall...

This is good for benchmarking, but for most, not much real world in the least. For those that want to 'see' lower temps that are within spec, well, i understand, but, go see a psychologist and get over it. :p
 
Last edited:

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
28,473 (4.10/day)
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z470 Taichi
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro w/ Noctua NF-A14 Fans
Memory 32GB DDR4-3600
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 Super
Storage 500GB SX8200 Pro + 8TB with 1TB SSD Cache
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
-4 for the chipset interface means 40 for you to use or 24 for the i7 7820K

I think they are listing usable lanes, not including the lanes for the chipset. Otherwise the 7740 and 7640 would only have 12 usable lanes...
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
150 (0.03/day)
System Name Poke
Processor i7-7700K OC 4.8 Ghz
Motherboard Asus Z270 ROG Maximus IX Hero
Cooling Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 280
Memory G.skill TridentZ DDR4 16GB 2X8GB kit 3600 Mhz XMP
Video Card(s) Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080TI FE
Storage Samsung 850 Evo 1 TB SSD / Western Digital Scorpio Blue 500 GB HDD
Display(s) Asus VG248QE 144 Hz
Case NZXT H440 Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek
Power Supply Corsair RM750i
Mouse Logitech G403 Prodigy
Keyboard Logitech G910 Orion Spark
Software Win 10 Home x64
Is this what Intel is preparing to counter AMD? silly joke.
They better stick with the 7700K as last released CPU and start developing something trully new.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,489 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
Depending how the benchmarks turn out, it may be less of a protest and more of just a smart decision. I am with you though... if everyone simply refused to buy these CPU's and instead just did a big sh*t in a box and sent it to Intel's head office, they might actually pay attention. Of course, this won't happen, but one can dream.

Anyone buying X299 is part of the problem, you're just enabling them. Why the hell are they ever going to do any different if they can make more money cutting corners? No business man in their right mind wouldn't advocate this strategy, so if you insist on buying Intel, accept that you will eat their sh*t and stop complaining.


It's done.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ryzen-owners-zen-garden.231658/page-11#post-3667963
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
2,199 (0.43/day)
http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

There's your answer about CPU soldering.

They know exactly what they are doing and the reason for conventional thermal paste in recent desktop CPUs is not as simple as it seems.

Micro cracks in solder preforms can damage the CPU permanently after a certain amount of thermal cycles and time. Conventional thermal paste doesn’t perform as good as the solder preform but it should have a longer durability – especially for small size DIE CPUs.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
7,569 (1.48/day)
Location
Rīga, Latvia
System Name HELLSTAR
Processor AMD RYZEN 9 5950X
Motherboard ASUS Strix X570-E
Cooling 2x 360 + 280 rads. 3x Gentle Typhoons, 3x Phanteks T30, 2x TT T140 . EK-Quantum Momentum Monoblock.
Memory 4x8GB G.SKILL Trident Z RGB F4-4133C19D-16GTZR 14-16-12-30-44
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse RX 7900XTX. Water block. Crossflashed.
Storage Optane 900P[Fedora] + WD BLACK SN850X 4TB + 750 EVO 500GB + 1TB 980PRO+SN560 1TB(W11)
Display(s) Philips PHL BDM3270 + Acer XV242Y
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic EVO
Audio Device(s) SMSL RAW-MDA1 DAC
Power Supply Fractal Design Newton R3 1000W
Mouse Razer Basilisk
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow V3 - Yellow Switch
Software FEDORA 41

I wonder why AMD and my old Sandy doesn't care about that. Anyways there will be a higher fail ratio on the line... on the other hand it has cracks, the die coat is defective anyways so... you are buying a non perfect that should have died on the assembly line anyways... I really don't dig the idea, especially for the price.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
7,569 (1.48/day)
Location
Rīga, Latvia
System Name HELLSTAR
Processor AMD RYZEN 9 5950X
Motherboard ASUS Strix X570-E
Cooling 2x 360 + 280 rads. 3x Gentle Typhoons, 3x Phanteks T30, 2x TT T140 . EK-Quantum Momentum Monoblock.
Memory 4x8GB G.SKILL Trident Z RGB F4-4133C19D-16GTZR 14-16-12-30-44
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse RX 7900XTX. Water block. Crossflashed.
Storage Optane 900P[Fedora] + WD BLACK SN850X 4TB + 750 EVO 500GB + 1TB 980PRO+SN560 1TB(W11)
Display(s) Philips PHL BDM3270 + Acer XV242Y
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic EVO
Audio Device(s) SMSL RAW-MDA1 DAC
Power Supply Fractal Design Newton R3 1000W
Mouse Razer Basilisk
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow V3 - Yellow Switch
Software FEDORA 41
So, do your solders properly! Does Intel also recommend their server buyers to delid their CPU & get the temps in check :rolleyes:

I really lol at this article... some mumbling only... I chuckled on the pic about the deformed PCB...

The cracks or voids can me made only when reaching Tj max. After that it will boil and yeah... who cares about cracks after your cpu is dead eventually... there are xrays... well they did actually boil the CPU somehow... not in a motherboard for sure as the thing should be dead. Actually the glue is also elastic, during the soldering process the IHS will float and even out the pressure.

The most solid argument are statistics.

XEON have not shown any issues, ask WCG people, even the older socket grandfathers stones running 24/7 on crap cooling for years. Sandy's are still running fine for most of people using them, so this crack mumbo jumbo is kind of like hangover geek talk(actually it could be also). There are imperfections even for soldering, but not at such scale.

All things considered... using TIM is cheaper... and there is simply not even a discussion, also using a thinner substrate. Problem is... this is a costy HEDT product... it is just unfair even if it works fine at stock, but it is not aimed to do so really unlike mainstream desktop parts... the TIM gains, yes there are some, but now are kind of cultivated like a disease to defend something... in the end yea... it still performs worse and is cheaper for Intel. DIED Soldered CPU? Hello Warranty... need to delid no warranty? A new business niche and warranty killer?
 

Ruru

S.T.A.R.S.
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
12,842 (2.94/day)
Location
Jyväskylä, Finland
System Name 4K-gaming / media-PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X / Intel Core i7-6700K
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero / Asus Z170-A
Cooling Arctic Freezer 50 / Thermaltake Contac 21
Memory 32GB DDR4-3466 / 16GB DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) RTX 3080 10GB / RX 6700 XT
Storage 3.3TB of SSDs / several small SSDs
Display(s) Acer 27" 4K120 IPS + Lenovo 32" 4K60 IPS
Case Corsair 4000D AF White / DeepCool CC560 WH
Audio Device(s) Creative Omni BT speaker
Power Supply EVGA G2 750W / Fractal ION Gold 550W
Mouse Logitech MX518 / Logitech G400s
Keyboard Roccat Vulcan 121 AIMO / NOS C450 Mini Pro
VR HMD Oculus Rift CV1
Software Windows 11 Pro / Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores They run Crysis
What is this mention about an air gap all about?
Well, there's a tiny (0.06mm) gap between the die and the IHS. Don't know what's the situation on more modern CPUs, but at least on Ivy Bridge that was reported in many tech sites.
 

Ruru

S.T.A.R.S.
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
12,842 (2.94/day)
Location
Jyväskylä, Finland
System Name 4K-gaming / media-PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X / Intel Core i7-6700K
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero / Asus Z170-A
Cooling Arctic Freezer 50 / Thermaltake Contac 21
Memory 32GB DDR4-3466 / 16GB DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) RTX 3080 10GB / RX 6700 XT
Storage 3.3TB of SSDs / several small SSDs
Display(s) Acer 27" 4K120 IPS + Lenovo 32" 4K60 IPS
Case Corsair 4000D AF White / DeepCool CC560 WH
Audio Device(s) Creative Omni BT speaker
Power Supply EVGA G2 750W / Fractal ION Gold 550W
Mouse Logitech MX518 / Logitech G400s
Keyboard Roccat Vulcan 121 AIMO / NOS C450 Mini Pro
VR HMD Oculus Rift CV1
Software Windows 11 Pro / Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores They run Crysis
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
98 (0.03/day)
My 6700k delid was optional. On my buddy's 7700k I was shocked to find it wasn't optional at all.

Now, garbage heat transfer on premium CPUs?

This is what happens when accountants are in charge.
 
Top