New Performance Benchmarks of AMD's Vega Frontier Edition Surface

[eidairaman1]

Who cares, waiting on unannounced RX cards to be announced (Still won't be upgrading)

 

[Xzibit]

I don't think you are being ignorant. I think you are bi or multi lingual, yes? It is very misguided, on a PR front to sell a non gaming card and put a gaming mode on it. That is misleading. It implies it has a mode that is created for gaming. Clearly it does not because as you like to remind me, it's not a gaming card. I know it's not a gaming card.

But it has a Gaming Mode. It's like selling a car with flight mode. Except it can't fly. Or a dog with cat mode, that can't meow.

I ask about your lingual ability as I want to give you the benefit of understanding my point. If you want it even more clearly, it's like selling a card with Ausum mode that doesn't actually overclock.

If you still prefer to imagine I am thick as shit, then your understanding of English is rather poor.

I guess my understanding is so poor I actually understood them.

Guess i should have expected a cat/flying car when they told me in videos and in interviews leading up to the release its wasn't a cat/flying car.

I should have just kept them up to my expectations of what they should have come out with. Guess i'm off to the forums to rant about it.

 

[the54thvoid]

I guess my understanding is so poor I actually understood them.

Guess i should have expected a cat/flying car when they told me in videos and in interviews leading up to the release its wasn't a cat/flying car.

I should have just kept them up to my expectations of what they should have come out with. Guess i'm off to the forums to rant about it.

Cool. I understand everything I need to know now. I think you'll love your cat/flying car. Never use fly mode though. Doesn't exist. Even though there's a button.

FWIW, I completely understand your POV. But you utterly ignore the futility of a Gaming Mode on a non-gaming card. I know it's aimed at 'prosumers'. I know RX Vega is the gaming version. I know the FE is hampered. I know these things. That's why, as a logical thinking person, it beggars belief they put a Gaming Mode on it...that does nothing for gaming performance. Why bother?

 

[0x4452]

Why everyone keeps on saying this is not a gaming card?

It certainly looks and feels like one with all the brushed aluminum and glowing logo. Look at Quadro, that is how a pro card looks, dull plastic shroud. What the pro user cares is the triangle throughput, pro certifications, dedicated customer support. Not looks. All the above are the opposite with this product.

And even if it is not, so what? Quadro's can game too, they just have a bit slower clock, ~5-10% resulting in that much smaller performance. It is non-sense to say that the pro driver lacks gaming features. It is true the other way around.

And stop comparing the price of Vega FE to a Quadro. With Quadro most of what you are paying is the ability to call NVIDIA and get them to help you personally.

 

[RejZoR]

Your logic is invalid when you think why trucks to deliver goods (professional tool) these days look amazing. Where in olden days they were all generic stuff without any touch of aesthetics. It's the exactly same thing here. Who says a professional product cannot look good? If you're a product designer and customers walk into your office and you have a stylish workstation case with glass side and this card inside... you get the picture. Looks do matter these days.

And saying Quadro P6000 isn't stylishly designed... Either you're blind or at lest color blind. Why else would NVIDIA bother placing chrome and green details on it? It could simply have a black or gray shroud. AMD simply opted for all metallic blue shroud and that yellow "R" cube in the corner.

 

[Xzibit]

Cool. I understand everything I need to know now. I think you'll love your cat/flying car. Never use fly mode though. Doesn't exist. Even though there's a button.

FWIW, I completely understand your POV. But you utterly ignore the futility of a Gaming Mode on a non-gaming card. I know it's aimed at 'prosumers'. I know RX Vega is the gaming version. I know the FE is hampered. I know these things. That's why, as a logical thinking person, it beggars belief they put a Gaming Mode on it...that does nothing for gaming performance. Why bother?

I'm not ignoring it. I know its there, they've presented it. At the same time I'm not going to beat my chest in anger over how they want to present it and position the card. I don't have a problem with it since I didn't have a preconceived notion of how it should be presented to me.

I personally don't expect RX Vega to be much faster, 8%-15%. Maybe just in sustained clock rates.

I'm not buying one but if you buy me that cat/flying car I will use Fly Mode and click that button as much as I want.

 

[kruk]

Here is what The Source (MSI's marketing director) says:

Vergelijk deze kaart aub niet teveel met RX Vega.

which probably means (correct me if I'm wrong): "Don't compare this card too much with RX Vega".

Thus, this discussion is just a waste of everyones time until the RX Vega comes out.

 

[BiggieShady]

The PCPer article shows this:

Yeah, about Fallout 4 anomaly ... he had the wrong resolution in the settings

Yah, those numbers looked odd to me last night, only the 2560x1440. I re-ran them three times today, all with the lower score you see in the story today.

My guess is I had the incorrect resolution set previously.

 

[john_]

I'm sorry if you get offended so easily. I just corrected you.

No you didn't correct me. You just reacted abruptly because you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Maybe that never happened to you in your life. Maybe you know everything and you always express your thoughts accurately. Or maybe it is a sign of lack of manners and/or lack of education. I am sure it's the first one(know everything).

The PCPer article shows this:

Ryan said that their original testing was wrong, probably tested in a lower resolution and didn't noticed it.

 

[Pruny]

Vega should drop a memory stack and pack 6000cores
Moar cores pls

 

[RejZoR]

No you didn't correct me. You just reacted abruptly because you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Maybe that never happened to you in your life. Maybe you know everything and you always express your thoughts accurately. Or maybe it is a sign of lack of manners and/or lack of education. I am sure it's the first one(know everything).


Ryan said that their original testing was wrong, probably tested in a lower resolution and didn't noticed it.

You literally said they intentionally lower IPC to increase clocks. Which is complete BS. Yes, that is a correction and yes, you do get offended too easily.

 

[john_]

You literally said they intentionally lower IPC to increase clocks. Which is complete BS. Yes, that is a correction and yes, you do get offended too easily.

In your own explanations about pipelines and stuff you talk about latencies and performance penalties. You can continue expressing technical superiority here, about how pipelines and stuff are not IPC, or realize that not everyone will post here like having a master in CPU designing.
But nevermind. I see how others are blind and have invalid logic, so I guess it wasn't the first one(knowing everything).


On other news
AMD announces Capsaicin Siggraph with no word about RX Vega | VideoCardz.com

There was no reason for AMD to keep RX Vega for Siggraph, other than delay it. Siggraph is not for gaming cards. It seems that they are delaying this card because of reasons we don't know. Being the cost of HBM2, availability of HBM2, disagreements about if they should sell this card to the gaming market, drivers, problems with card's design, I don't know. But indications right now show that this card is only a big step forward for professionals and big corporations needing high performance in compute tasks, not a good enough product for gamers. And because of HBM2, AMD probably can't sell it at 1080 price levels without saying goodbye to reasonable profit margins, or without even losing money.

 

[efikkan]

Why do people still keep making up excuses for this card claiming it's not meant for gaming? Unless AMD intentionally made this card worse by disabling gaming related features(which I doubt), this is the rough gaming performance of Vega10. The claim that prosumer and professional cards suck in gaming is a myth, and there is no reason why they should do so if they have all the required features enabled.

 

[R0H1T]

Why do people still keep making up excuses for this card claiming it's not meant for gaming? Unless AMD intentionally made this card worse by disabling gaming related features(which I doubt), this is the rough gaming performance of Vega10. The claim that prosumer and professional cards suck in gaming is a myth, and there is no reason why they should do so if they have all the required features enabled.

At some point in time (last year?) RTG must've known what Vega could do, I bet this delay is because they can't wait to sell Navi &/or GF 7nm.
Not so sure about that, it's more of a hope, for AMD fans, sprinkled with (some) unrealistic expectations. Can't say this on behalf of everyone, but most us want RTG to be just as competitive as the CPU division as can be seen with Ryzen, if Vega falls way short of 1080Ti then it'd be a major disappointment, that's all there's to it.

 

[ratirt]

Why do people still keep making up excuses for this card claiming it's not meant for gaming? Unless AMD intentionally made this card worse by disabling gaming related features(which I doubt), this is the rough gaming performance of Vega10. The claim that prosumer and professional cards suck in gaming is a myth, and there is no reason why they should do so if they have all the required features enabled.

If that's so than we all can see that 2k res in Fallout 4 vega performance is like 1080 TI. So driver issue since not all game matched. Its not for gaming cause there is no gaming driver. Which means when vega gaming shows up it will be performing like 1080 TI frontier showed in fallout4 but across all games. Does this comfort you?

 

[john_]

If that's so than we all can see that 2k res in Fallout 4 vega performance is like 1080 TI. So driver issue since not all game matched. Its not for gaming cause there is no gaming driver. Which means when vega gaming shows up it will be performing like 1080 TI frontier showed in fallout4 but across all games. Does this comfort you?

Ryan from PCper posted new results in his article, saying that those in live where wrong, possibly wrong resolution. Vega was build for compute. High frequency probably was considered enough to offer gamers the extra performance they needed but things didn't gone as good as AMD was hopping.
That's only bad in gamer's eyes. For AMD Ryzen is a success, Threadripper cough Intel off guard, and Epyc probably would signal an epyc return to servers. Vega will also make many pros and corporations happy. But gamers will probably have to wait longer, because AMD's financial limitations can't offer two miracles in just a few months period. Hopefully consumers will buy AMD processors so that the company have enough cash for better R&D in future products, gaming GPUs included.
Patience.

 

[RejZoR]

In your own explanations about pipelines and stuff you talk about latencies and performance penalties. You can continue expressing technical superiority here, about how pipelines and stuff are not IPC, or realize that not everyone will post here like having a master in CPU designing.
But nevermind. I see how others are blind and have invalid logic, so I guess it wasn't the first one(knowing everything).


On other news
AMD announces Capsaicin Siggraph with no word about RX Vega | VideoCardz.com

There was no reason for AMD to keep RX Vega for Siggraph, other than delay it. Siggraph is not for gaming cards. It seems that they are delaying this card because of reasons we don't know. Being the cost of HBM2, availability of HBM2, disagreements about if they should sell this card to the gaming market, drivers, problems with card's design, I don't know. But indications right now show that this card is only a big step forward for professionals and big corporations needing high performance in compute tasks, not a good enough product for gamers. And because of HBM2, AMD probably can't sell it at 1080 price levels without saying goodbye to reasonable profit margins, or without even losing money.

Again, saying one has to ever intentionally lower IPC to achieve higher clocks is nonsense. It is, was and always will be. IPC is essentially how efficient shaders are at doing compute, in one cycle (1Hz). You can have a RX Vega core at 1.4 GHz and another one at 30 GHz and they'd still have exactly the same IPC.

I'm far from expert in processor architectures, but I know the basics.

 

[efikkan]

If that's so than we all can see that 2k res in Fallout 4 vega performance is like 1080 TI. So driver issue since not all game matched. Its not for gaming cause there is no gaming driver. Which means when vega gaming shows up it will be performing like 1080 TI frontier showed in fallout4 but across all games. Does this comfort you?

That makes no sense, try again.

 

[ratirt]

That makes no sense, try again.

Nothing for you makes sense unless you say it right?
Yeah it does make sense if you understand it. It shows how Vega handles Fallout on 2k. Isn't that an indication of performance? AMD sucks with driver deliveries would that be the case it's not as good across the games that it was tested on? Are you an enthusiast, fan, expert or a NV fanboy? Well you are not an expert that's for sure since you miss so much info, even though you try to convince people you are. enthusiast maybe and a fan. But for sure fanboy. How about you go to NV threads and say how great it is and how happy you are to have one instead?(if you have one or you would really like to have one maybe) Cause your arguments are just lame and honestly i'm tired of this. Not sure about other people. Just go on NV posts and write there how great it is and how fast. Not here telling Vega is bad and sucks which is not even out since this is professional. Professional cards sucks for games and for you it's a myth. That's your opinion. They are not for games and that's my opinion but you can use them for games.

 

[RejZoR]

I think by now you have understood my point, or at least I hope so, but it is obvious that you will keep saying the same poem. So let's end it here.

So, you're calling facts, "poems". Simple example is clock increase with Intel CPU's while they also boost IPC with each iteration. By your logic, Intel would have to decrease IPC of 7700K to reach 4.5 GHz compared to Broadwell. Yet that's clearly not the case. You can generally run both at 4.5GHz. It's just that 7700K will still have the edge because it has higher IPC.

Maybe it is better that we end here indeed, because you're clearly not interested in learning anything new...

 

[Xpect]

Cool. I understand everything I need to know now. I think you'll love your cat/flying car. Never use fly mode though. Doesn't exist. Even though there's a button.

FWIW, I completely understand your POV. But you utterly ignore the futility of a Gaming Mode on a non-gaming card. I know it's aimed at 'prosumers'. I know RX Vega is the gaming version. I know the FE is hampered. I know these things. That's why, as a logical thinking person, it beggars belief they put a Gaming Mode on it...that does nothing for gaming performance. Why bother?

Yeah, it's almost like you would build a phone with flying mode or airplane mode, that doesn't actually fly or transform into an airplane... oh, wait!

You see? It's just a button to enable more game specific options in the driver while deactivating the production specific options, so that a developer can develop a game and then see if it actually runs without the special options he set in his driver for developing said game.

And this Vega Frontier Edition is a card that sits in a bracket between current Titan and Quadro cards from Nvidia. It has no hampered DP and similar output as the current Titan (which is by Nvidia specifically called a GAMING card, not a prosumer card anymore) but it has a bit more consumer oriented driver features the Quadros lack. THIS is a prosumer card, the Titan actually isn't (anymore).

 

[RejZoR]

GeForce cards (gaming ones) also have "Optimize for Compute" setting in NV CP which has a disclaimer that can negatively impact games, especially those that use sparse textures.

 

[efikkan]

And this Vega Frontier Edition is a card that sits in a bracket between current Titan and Quadro cards from Nvidia. It has no hampered DP and similar output as the current Titan (which is by Nvidia specifically called a GAMING card, not a prosumer card anymore) but it has a bit more consumer oriented driver features the Quadros lack. THIS is a prosumer card, the Titan actually isn't (anymore).

Stop right there, I'll have to correct you:
Vega FE does not have full fp64, 819 Gflop/s fp64. AMD is planning a Vega20 to arrive next year with higher fp64 performance to compete with Quadro.

Titans are prosumer cards. They does work well in gaming, but so does Quadros too. The purpose of Titan is to provide the ultimate performance for demanding power-users/developers which are willing to pay a little extra to get the maximum available. They are made out of cherry-pick top binned chips. Nvidia could have priced them a little lower, but they can't provide them in large quantities, as evident by them often being out of stock and Nvidia having to limit the cards per customer. As a developer, I'm super happy these exist, and I know these are used extensively in development, research/academics, etc. As for all the people complaining about their pricing and their lack of "value" once the GeForce versions come along; These cards are not meant for you! All the adolescents doing gaming in their mother's basement have a problem grasping that there is a professional/prosumer market out there, where getting access to better performance is easily worth it in terms of increased revenue. This is not Nvidia screwing their customers, actually the prosumers demand this!

 

[john_]

Rejzor.
I learned one thing from this. How to add someone in the ignore list.

 

[Xpect]

GeForce cards (gaming ones) also have "Optimize for Compute" setting in NV CP which has a disclaimer that can negatively impact games, especially those that use sparse textures.

I didn't know about that.
Tbh, my last Geforce that actually ran (awesomely) was a 7900GS (@ GTX+ clocks and shaders). After that I once did a swap with someone, my HD4850 vs his 9800GTX. We swapped back because our cards did play up and throw errors in each others PCs. Swapping back and no signs of errors anymore.

Also at the time of the Geforce 7000, Nvidia did some shady stuff with displays, since that times my faithful old display, which does have a DVI port, would only run via DVI if connected to a Nvidia card, neither AMD nor Intel will work with DVI with that display. But the first test of the Display was via DVI on a integrated Intel Chip (on which it also doesn't work anymore).
So, just for me it's: Nvidia screwed me over by crippling my display, I'll not buy anything from them if possible.
Still they make awesome cards, just not with the right features for me (Freesync e.g.)

Stop right there, I'll have to correct you:
Vega FE does not have full fp64, 819 Gflop/s fp64. AMD is planning a Vega20 to arrive next year with higher fp64 performance to compete with Quadro.

Okay, I didn't do my homework there, I'm sorry.