Retailers are Buying AMD RX Vega 64 at $675 Each

[ratirt]

There are some very interesting undervolting tests going on at OCUK's forums at the moment (Vega owner's thread).

Results (stability to be determined) are showing massively less power draw and consistently keeping max boos clocks (1630MHz on AIO) for overall the same or better performance at much cooler temps with less power.

Wattman and the drivers still seem to be a rushed mess, so I would think things can only improve from here, if the pricing can be sorted.

Do you have a link to that post or article? I would likely read some news and hints and how that power consumption is handled. Not that I care much about the power consumption but it would be nice to see lower figures in that department.

 

[R0H1T]

Do you have a link to that post or article? I would likely read some news and hints and how that power consumption is handled. Not that I care much about the power consumption but it would be nice to see lower figures in that department.

The RX Vega 64 Owners Thread | Page 50 | Overclockers UK Forums

 

[EarthDog]

That's the dumbest idea I've heard this year lol.

Firstly, Vega 64/56 are already two of the worst cards going for mining performance compared to price and power consumption. Secondly, it's not miners buying them it's gamers and professional users. Thirdly, crippling the cards compute performance would make it useless for anything but games, so there go the professional sales that are currently keeping the ship afloat (and there's no guarantee that would drive those sales to the Vega FE and not the Titan).

yeah, weve been waiting days for mr someoneorother to get back to us on mining performance. From the numbers we have seen, ROI is a lot longer on these cards...

...but still waiting for something concrete.

Interesting theory in the first post considering its ROI is higher...

 

[nemesis.ie]

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/the-rx-vega-64-owners-thread.18789713/

Start around page 35 if you are in a hurry.

 

[silentbogo]

I got my Vega 64 for 507€, so those of you bitching about the price, why don't you find a respectable retailer ?

The only possible scenario is getting a pre-order w/ AMD promo discount from a single french online store, and those cards aren't shipping until at least mid-september, and it's limited to a grand-total of 137 lucky customers (according to their leaflet).
So, the chances of you being a current owner of a 508€ RX Vega 64 are so slim, that I would say with certainty that you don't have it.

 

[john_]

AMD wants to make money and whetever price they put on Vega 64, gamers will look elsewhere. Why? Because even if AMD decides to sell ALL Vega cards at their $399 or $499 points, Nvidia can come up with price reductions for their 1070 and 1080 models, making AMD bleeding money everytime they sell give away a Vega card. Even if Nvidia doesn't do a move, people will still keep buying GeForce cards because "they need less power and produce less heat". People will always find an excuse to go with Nvidia or Intel brands. If you don't believe me, just look how fast many people change their stance about Ryzen cpus, now that Intel is promising more cores.

Another thought. Let's say that AMD, or it's partners like Sapphire, sells the Vega 64 at $450 to the retailer and the retailer, because of mining craze, sells at $700. Who makes the more money? But if AMD, or it's partner, sells the majority of cards at $675 and only offers limited quantities at $499, then they can make some money. The retailers of course will come out crying because they wouldn't be able to enjoy huge(for an electronic device) profit margins.

AMD knows that Vega will sell to miners, to movie studios and professionals as Frontier, FirePro, SSG, Instinct, whatever pro card. And they probably already know that it is a lost cause to try to sell this card at significant quantities to gamers. So they try to sell Vega RX in a way that wouldn't cost them money and would help their partners that sell ONLY AMD cards make some money themselves. AMD puts it's financials and it's partners at top, leaving the retailers crying and gamers unsatisfied and angry. Well, I don't see something wrong here, at least from a business perspective. Gamers will come back when AMD will be ready to offer a true gaming card. For now they don't have the money to offer true gaming products. Both Ryzen and Vega are pro products, not so much for gamers.

PS I try to explain AMD's actions, NOT give excuses. They should have come out and say from the beginning that, because of the cost of the card to make and uncertainties with VRAM pricing, they can only offer limited amount of cards at discounts.

 

[Xzibit]

Considering the comments made in the article about what AMD could possibly do to mitigate this problem, "hard" work would have been getting a comment from AMD about pricing and what they can do about it, like a lot of other sites have managed to do in the last couple of days.

The poor soul who might lose his job, took it into his own hands when he leaked the invoice.

Its your site, and yes, you can do what you want with it, and its users.
I'd say swinging the banhammer is not an appropriate response, but you can do what you want with it.

edit : Whatever happened to Mods editing out what they consider insults in peoples posts ? I'd rather see a "Insults removed" and a PM, than a swing of the Banhammer.

Especially when anyone with a re-seller license / certificate / permit # can buy 2 cards. Could be a construction worker that needed 2 vega cards or a work from home mom selling jewelry as long as you have a # you can buy from distributors for whole sale. The only facts that picture shows is that 2 Sapphires were sold one time to someone with a seller # from the NJ branch and they had to be shipped from their HQ in CA San Jose.

Which is why I asked what the source of the photo was.

 

[CmputrBlu]

Retailers are buying cards for $675 only to turn around and sell them for $689-$699? Is that the profit margin these days. Seems to me you already sold these cards in your shop if you're buying just two. Or you're hoping to make a decent profit. Otherwise doesn't seem worth even placing the order

 

[dyonoctis]

This is such a mess. I'm here, hoping for a gpu gen that would be like the radeon hd 4000 money wise, but isntead we are getting years old gpu with inflated price, when they are getting closer and closer to their end life, or brand new gpu with both inflated price and nothing really impressive to show.

Yhea Vega is a compute beast, but cuda is still what's more used (pixar renderman added a denoiser who's only working with cuda, most of the gpu redering software are cuda based and/or the open cl version is limited.) Unlike big studio, the average client can't tweak his software to work better with open cl, so while vega is a bargain for studios, it's not that great for the average joe.

And we may have forgotten this, but the new Imac pro is coming with vega gpu in December, so i'm guessing that a fair amount of vega silicon is being shared by gamers, hollywood, pro and apple. The thing is , I'm not seeing apple putting vega in something as slim as an Imac with the current power draw and heat. They must have tweaked it to be more efficent, but for some reason AMD didn't take any clue from them.

Vega is a nice piece of tech, but the last few weeks showed that AMD didn't take the time to refine it, it's costly to make, and doesn't look like it's ready for the gaming market. Vega is just too much for someone who would just want to game, all the Teraflops, all the benefit of HBM2, and the AI, seems waisted.

The Asus strix has been tested , and the power draw is worse than the reference model.

 

[Evildead666]

The only possible scenario is getting a pre-order w/ AMD promo discount from a single french online store, and those cards aren't shipping until at least mid-september, and it's limited to a grand-total of 137 lucky customers (according to their leaflet).
So, the chances of you being a current owner of a 508€ RX Vega 64 are so slim, that I would say with certainty that you don't have it.

There are two online stores in France doing the same price, afaik, LDLC and hardware.fr.
I got mine at LDLC, and it was delivered monday.
My EK Waterblock was delivered yesterday.

When I ordered it, it was stated as being available within 7-15 days.

You can still pre-order the Vega64 for 508€, so the price isn't a problem, just the supply problem. All the Vega cards are stated as being available in "more than 15 days".
I don't see any limit on the number of customers who are eligible, I even tried my best to see when the "special offer" would end, and could not find any reference to a date limit on their site.
Hardware.fr shop may have had a customer limit, but not that I have seen or heard of.

 

[c0d3x5]

It's all lies....

Ryzen flopped, so they are trying to get their money.

 

[Evildead666]

AMD wants to make money and whetever price they put on Vega 64, gamers will look elsewhere. Why? Because even if AMD decides to sell ALL Vega cards at their $399 or $499 points, Nvidia can come up with price reductions for their 1070 and 1080 models, making AMD bleeding money everytime they sell give away a Vega card. Even if Nvidia doesn't do a move, people will still keep buying GeForce cards because "they need less power and produce less heat". People will always find an excuse to go with Nvidia or Intel brands. If you don't believe me, just look how fast many people change their stance about Ryzen cpus, now that Intel is promising more cores.

Another thought. Let's say that AMD, or it's partners like Sapphire, sells the Vega 64 at $450 to the retailer and the retailer, because of mining craze, sells at $700. Who makes the more money? But if AMD, or it's partner, sells the majority of cards at $675 and only offers limited quantities at $499, then they can make some money. The retailers of course will come out crying because they wouldn't be able to enjoy huge(for an electronic device) profit margins.

AMD knows that Vega will sell to miners, to movie studios and professionals as Frontier, FirePro, SSG, Instinct, whatever pro card. And they probably already know that it is a lost cause to try to sell this card at significant quantities to gamers. So they try to sell Vega RX in a way that wouldn't cost them money and would help their partners that sell ONLY AMD cards make some money themselves. AMD puts it's financials and it's partners at top, leaving the retailers crying and gamers unsatisfied and angry. Well, I don't see something wrong here, at least from a business perspective. Gamers will come back when AMD will be ready to offer a true gaming card. For now they don't have the money to offer true gaming products. Both Ryzen and Vega are pro products, not so much for gamers.

PS I try to explain AMD's actions, NOT give excuses. They should have come out and say from the beginning that, because of the cost of the card to make and uncertainties with VRAM pricing, they can only offer limited amount of cards at discounts.

Retailers are buying cards for $675 only to turn around and sell them for $689-$699? Is that the profit margin these days. Seems to me you already sold these cards in your shop if you're buying just two. Or you're hoping to make a decent profit. Otherwise doesn't seem worth even placing the order

AMD is still selling the cards at the regular price.
Any price increase is not on their end, it is on the retailers end, gouging out the users wallets.

 

[dyonoctis]

There are two online stores in France doing the same price, afaik, LDLC and hardware.fr.
I got mine at LDLC, and it was delivered monday.
My EK Waterblock was delivered yesterday.

When I ordered it, it was stated as being available within 7-15 days.

You can still pre-order the Vega64 for 508€, so the price isn't a problem, just the supply problem. All the Vega cards are stated as being available in "more than 15 days".
I don't see any limit on the number of customers who are eligible, I even tried my best to see when the "special offer" would end, and could not find any reference to a date limit on their site.
Hardware.fr shop may have had a customer limit, but not that I have seen or heard of.

It's ending the 15 september for 137 orders.
https://media.ldlc.com/bo/file/fiches/odr/amd/leaflet-amd_vega.pdf

And LDLC and shop.hardware.fr are pretty much the same store, the product they are selling, and their stock are way too similar to be really 2 different store. hardware.fr only seems to have lower price, but they must be sharing the same warehouse.

 

[birdie]

There's so much BS in this thread it's staggering.

1) We don't know for sure how many units AMD have shipped - it might be several thousand units - of course the prices will go up. AMD hasn't revealed any exact numbers.
2) The truth is most AMD cards are used for mining as indicated by Steam HW survey. This whole "give gamers RX Vegas is just BS".



3) Miners are much better off with Polaris cards.
4) Ethereum mining is not as profitable as it was 2-3 months ago, because the difficulty has increased threefold for this period, so blaming miners for everything is very far fetched.
5) RX Vega simply sucks for gaming.

This whole "drama" is too much ado about nothing.

 

[Breit]

The premium isn't spread across everyone, AMD gets the same share for one card sold for $500 and the same model sold for $1000 in another store. The question here is who takes the premium. Usually it's the stores, but it can also be the wholesalers or AIB partners. And of course AMD could also be lying, but I've not seen the evidence for that yet.

Then again, I see no reason for them to take action against that (other than losing their reputation amongst gamers). They sell all the cards they are able to produce for the price they are charging for it.

 

[Evildead666]

It's ending the 15 september for 137 orders.
https://media.ldlc.com/bo/file/fiches/odr/amd/leaflet-amd_vega.pdf

And LDLC and shop.hardware.fr are pretty much the same store, the product they are selling, and their stock are way too similar to be really 2 different store. hardware.fr only seems to have lower price, but they must be sharing the same warehouse.

Ah, When I click on the special offer link that comes up now.
It didn't when I bought the card, and for the next few days.
The wording is a bit weird though, as it states limited to 137 usages (utilisations), rather than limited to 137 customers (clients or acheteurs)....That could be construed to mean you could buy 137 cards at that price, and no more (very illogical, i know, but the wording isn't clear).
i suspect you are right though, and it is limited to only 137 customers.

I did order on the monday, early afternoon iirc (well, as soon as I saw it in stock). i almost sh!t myself when i saw the prices, and then thankfully saw the rebate price.
If there was no rebate, I would have just gone for the Liquid edition, seeing as they were ALL at 749€, no matter which vega you were getting (Black/Limited/liquid).

edit : The prices seem to be a bit better now, but the limited edition aircooled is still the same price as the liquid cooled one...

 

[ensabrenoir]

....the new Amd:

(only comic book readers may get this)

 

[Vayra86]

I'll just say this

 

[TheMailMan78]

Jesus what has happen to my TPU?!

@W1zzard @btarunr I got busted up for fighting with people more than once on TPU. Yeah, and a good amount of times it was 100% on me for trolling. But, dammit I trolled with honor! With that being said you guys have more mods than ever and the riff raff comes in here and starts insulting all the staff. More and more everyday! Things didn't used to be this way. There used to be a balance. You guys should let me off the leash like the old days. Ill have 90% of these noobs raging quitting life.

On a side note to the staff. Keep killing it guys. The old school guys are still here and got your back.

 

[EarthDog]

There's so much BS in this thread it's staggering.

1) We don't know for sure how many units AMD have shipped - it might be several thousand units - of course the prices will go up. AMD hasn't revealed any exact numbers.
2) The truth is most AMD cards are used for mining as indicated by Steam HW survey. This whole "give gamers RX Vegas is just BS".

View attachment 91411

3) Miners are much better off with Polaris cards.
4) Ethereum mining is not as profitable as it was 2-3 months ago, because the difficulty has increased threefold for this period, so blaming miners for everything is very far fetched.
5) RX Vega simply sucks for gaming.

This whole "drama" is too much ado about nothing.

i like the thoughts... but its one hell of a leap to say look at a steam survey a week or two after a card releases, nkt see many on there and think they went mining. Ill let you figure out the large gaps between those two things.

 

[Gasaraki]

AMD is so full of shit. Just the day before they claim that the high prices were because of demand. Now the truth comes out, again.

 

[xkm1948]

So many RTG supporters completely rid of critical thinking capabilities. RTG would put a Vega sticker on a turd and these people would still defend it.

Take a fu*cking minute to think about it, what does TPU have to gain by publishing this? Endangering its relationship with a major GPU manufacturer. TPU is trying to dig into this whole shitshow of RTG's Vega for the fu*cking sake of consumers.


And hey, I don't see a lot of you lovers of RTG buying a Vega card. How about putting your money where you mouth is first? You support RTG by purchasing their Vega and then we can talk.

 

[brian111]

Especially when anyone with a re-seller license / certificate / permit # can buy 2 cards. Could be a construction worker that needed 2 vega cards or a work from home mom selling jewelry as long as you have a # you can buy from distributors for whole sale. The only facts that picture shows is that 2 Sapphires were sold one time to someone with a seller # from the NJ branch and they had to be shipped from their HQ in CA San Jose.

Which is why I asked what the source of the photo was.

Wizzard already stated early in the thread,

"It is a well-known store with physical and online presence"

 

[Evildead666]

So many RTG supporters completely rid of critical thinking capabilities. RTG would put a Vega sticker on a turd and these people would still defend it.

Take a fu*cking minute to think about it, what does TPU have to gain by publishing this? Endangering its relationship with a major GPU manufacturer. TPU is trying to dig into this whole shitshow of RTG's Vega for the fu*cking sake of consumers.


And hey, I don't see a lot of you lovers of RTG buying a Vega card. How about putting your money where you mouth is first? You support RTG by purchasing their Vega and then we can talk.

Bought and delivered.
The one thing that should have been done, is asked AMD about it, maybe even showed them the photo, and asked for a comment on that.

You have a very good point that TPU has nothing to gain from this, apart from clicks and page visits.
There is a lot to lose though, and basically saying AMD should gimp their cards or BIOS's.

For AMD, a card sold, is a card sold, be it to a Miner, or a Gamer, = money in the bank.
AMD do not seem to sell cards directly to end users, so if anyone is to blame, its the retailers and distributors, not AMD or RTG.

One rule of fabrication (and distribution), is not to produce too many of them. Unsold stock is the worst possible thing you can have.
Sold out stock, is usually the best thing to have, just not on release day.....

edit : just one last thing, The picture shows only two being ordered. Is it possible that these are for two liquid Cooled cards ? Wouldn't $675 be not too bad for those ?
I mean, it doesn't explicitly show if its aircooled or liquid cooled in the invoice, as far as i can see...

 

[R0H1T]

Just to show how much of an effect mining has had ~

As JPR writes: the chart shows, this is the first time in over 20 years that Q2 has seen an increase in shipments, and never one this dramatic. The big difference is the impact Bitcoin, Ethereum and other coin miners are having on the market. Why Ethereum? There was a similar uptick in GPU sales for Bitcoin and Litcoin mining 2013. It drove up sales of GPUs and especially AMD GPUs because of AMD’s GCN architecture favored mining. Low cost application specific integrated circuits (ASICs) were then employed to do the job and that boom went bust, much to the relief of gamers looking for better deals on GPUs. Bitcoin miners who had built large GPU structures for mining, dumped their AIBs on eBay, cannibalizing the GPU market for a couple of quarters. Due to the architecture of Ethereum, that won’t happen.

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/31-more-graphics-cards-sold-thanks-to-mining.html

Wonder how can anyone defend miners now