Core i7-8700K Reviewed by Lab501

[phanbuey]

Higher sustained boost? No... doesn't really work that way...with the stock intel cooler, all intel CPUs will hit their boost clocks. They are made for such behavior. So really, it is just the one-off overclocker that has issues with it. HEDT also doesn't come with a cooler...
I didn't say it was great. What I am saying is that it doesn't "suck". And there is clear evidence that it does not suck. People are welcome to criticize it. Just don't be surprised to continue seeing the same type responses from those who disagree with something completely untrue. I mean, writing is on the wall it can be better (to what end though is another question already answered). But it does not SUCK, again, as evidenced by its stock performance and out of spec performance (overclocking). 5.1 Ghz on air SUCKS for a hex-core... my 4.5 Ghz 20t SUCKS... 7700K at 5Ghz SUCKS... Good call on suck (phanbeuy).

I like to take my descriptive verbs to the extreme

7700K Delidded - ~20C drop with a 200Mhz headroom increase...
7820x Delidded - ~20C drop OC increase to 4.9-5.0Ghz range no throttling - stock paste - throttling at 4.7Ghz+ after sustained max load
7900X Delidded - VRMs explode and your house lights on fire. But the chip is cool...

8700K 14nm ++ with a delid will be sitting around 5.3 GHz at around 1.45v (my prediction)


And when I say "Higher sustained boost" I mean "they could release a higher clocked chip, with higher boost" (a-la AMD and the 1800x, where the chip is basically maxed out).

I don't agree, non-overclockers have nothing to complain about. Stock operation will be the same with any cooler with any other TIM.

So you think Intel has maxed out the headroom left in their chips, and can't offer a higher clocked chip to the mass market?

 

[Vya Domus]

Higher sustained boost? No... doesn't really work that way...with the stock intel cooler, all intel CPUs will hit their boost clocks. They are made for such behavior. So really, it is just the one-off overclocker that has issues with it. HEDT also doesn't come with a cooler...
I didn't say it was great. What I am saying is that it doesn't "suck". And there is clear evidence that it does not suck. People are welcome to criticize it. Just don't be surprised to continue seeing the same type responses from those who disagree with something completely untrue. I mean, writing is on the wall it can be better (to what end though is another question already answered). But it does not SUCK, again, as evidenced by its stock performance and out of spec performance (overclocking). 5.1 Ghz on air SUCKS for a hex-core... my 4.5 Ghz 20t SUCKS... 7700K at 5Ghz SUCKS... Good call on suck (phanbeuy).

It sucks / it's worse / it's not ideal / etc compared to solder. Call it whatever you want it has the same meaning really (as in not as good), at least that's how I view it.

 

[cadaveca]

And perhaps you should educate yourself on why people dont want TIM instead of solder. omg.

There's only two reasons to use TIM over solder between the die and the IHS

but so many TIM defenders in this thread.

It's silly that replacing the TIM is (essentially for overclockers) necessary with Intel.

Nobody is going to listen to anyone that calls this paste used "TIM", but then refers to solder as solder. They are BOTH TIM... TIM = Thermal Interface Material. Both the paste and the solder are TIM.


So yeah, unless you can use the terms you are using properly, you're just regurgitating nonsense, because it's clear you don't understand what you are saying.

 

[wrathchild_67]

I said this in previous post, Intel doesn't like you to overclock, and you do this on your own risk, and Intel doesn't have to pay for your overclocking adventures. This is something people don't understand. For the stock operations of Intel CPUs, the TIM is fine. Just because you want to set world records, that is on you, you can't blame them.

Using TIM means that amateur overclockers will feel the need to delid to get the most out of their chip whereas they would not be inclined to do that if the heatspreader were soldered. Statistically, more delids means more dead or damaged CPUs and maybe even more damaged motherboard sockets if someone fumbles and messes up the socket contacts; there is absolutely no arguing against that. Not every CPU delid is going to be successful. It's gotten a lot easier but it's not a fool-proof procedure.

If Intel didn't want to allow overclocking at all, there would be no "K" processors.

Intel doesn't have to pay for your overclocking adventures.

Yet, they are and most likely you are too since fraudulent RMAs are rolled into the price of their CPUs as a cost of doing business. Do you think everyone that kills their chip is honest and just eats the cost and buys a new CPU? Some surely do, some surely don't.

 

[EarthDog]

It sucks / it's worse / it's not ideal / etc compared to solder. Call it whatever you want it has the same meaning really (as in not as good), at least that's how I view it.

Clearly "SUCKS" is more negative than "not as good" or "not ideal" and is over-dramatizing the situation. My entire god damn point, lol!

... did I really need to explain that difference??? Seriously?


And it's funny that was the only retort... considering it works at stock and overclocks the CPU out of spec. The problem is that it's just not as far as some people want. Half those people that want it and think it "sucks" also believe you can pull 300MHz+ more because of it which simply isn't true. So people are now crying... wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh Intel didn't let me get another POTENTIAL 100-200Mhz and are not putting out their aboslute fastest they can wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh... give me a break.

Mountains and mole hills here...

 

[wrathchild_67]

Nobody is going to listen to anyone that calls this paste used "TIM", but then refers to solder as solder. They are BOTH TIM... TIM = Thermal Interface Material. Both the paste and the solder are TIM.


So yeah, unless you can use the terms you are using properly, you're just regurgitating nonsense, because it's clear you don't understand what you are saying.

You're being incredibly pedantic with that point. Everyone that is arguing for or against the heatspreader issue knows exactly what is being described.

 

[cadaveca]

You're being incredibly pedantic with that point. Everyone that is arguing for or against the heatspreader issue knows exactly what is being described.

You are right for sure, but I don't care. There is something to be said about being accurate in the words you use if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[phanbuey]

Nobody is going to listen to anyone that calls this paste used "TIM", but then refers to solder as solder. They are BOTH TIM... TIM = Thermal Interface Material. Both the paste and the solder are TIM.


So yeah, unless you can use the terms you are using properly, you're just regurgitating nonsense, because it's clear you don't understand what you are saying.

Uhhmmm... Actually is called sTIM or SMA-TIM depending on appli...



I crack myself up.

And it's funny that was the only retort... considering it works at stock and overclocks the CPU out of spec. The problem is that it's just not as far as some people want. Half those people that want it and think it "sucks" also believe you can pull 300MHz+ more because of it which simply isn't true. So people are now crying... wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh Intel didn't let me get another POTENTIAL 100-200Mhz and are not putting out their aboslute fastest they can wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh... give me a break.

Mountains and mole hills here...

The problem is it is an obvious anti-consumer practice that they rolled out after years of doing it properly due to an amazing lack of competition. It increases temps by 10-20C and limits clocks. Why is that ok? I can tell you why it's not ok - but maybe we should we get a few more years of quad cores while we are at it, too see how long the "suck it up and deal with it" mentality can last.

We are not animals. We demand solder.

 

[Vya Domus]

Clearly "SUCKS" is more negative than "not as good"...

... did I seriously need to explain that?

And do we seriously need to gripe on such details ? Just like that thing about terms such TIM/solder/thermal paste posted above.

I feel like we've reached a point where no one has anything relevant to say anymore and we've come down to the most basic and feeble arguments and points.

 

[wrathchild_67]

You are right for sure, but I don't care. There is something to be said about being accurate in the words you use if you want to be taken seriously.

There is also something to be said about dismissing critics by faulting them for grammar or pedantic details. I used TIM to describe thermal paste, it doesn't diminish my argument whatsoever.

 

[EarthDog]

I feel like we've reached a point where no one has anything relevant to say anymore and we've come down to the most basic and feeble arguments and points.

I agree..

If people can stop being overdramatic about it, perhaps it wouldn't warrant a response and the inevitable digression into the TPU abyss. The real problem is its being skewered and shat on as if it did "SUCK". People like me have to Hoover out a more tempered, and accurate response..... and then get labeled as the 'bad guy' for "griping" about those details...

There's a 'lot of ya' that need a people's elbow to the dome to snap out of it.

 

[cadaveca]

There is also something to be said about dismissing critics by faulting them for grammar or pedantic details. I used TIM to describe thermal paste, it doesn't diminish my argument whatsoever.

Sure, but complaining about something that isn't real problem is also rather pedantic, so I respond with like comments. But unlike your use of that word "pedantic", I refer to being finicky. I'm not the one trying to be Goldilocks.

And like I said, I don't care, just pointing out the obvious in hopes that when people complain about this issue, they formulate decent arguments that can then be used to perhaps get them what they want... rather than hopping on the Goldilocks train.

 

[Vya Domus]

I agree..

If people can stop being overdramatic about it, perhaps it wouldn't warrant a response and the inevitable digression into the TPU abyss. The real problem is its being skewered and shat on as if it did "SUCK". People like me have to Hoover out a more tempered, and accurate response..... and then get labeled as the 'bad guy' for "griping" about those details...

Yes , we need to stop being overdramatic , I definitely agree. But such arguments wont really make people resort to more tempered responses.

Thing is , chances are no one will ever agree with the opposing party on this matter from what I've seen regardless of whether or not you are formally correct.

 

[jagjitnatt]

There's SO MUCH confusion over TIM vs Solder here. Let me make this clear for everyone.
There are 2 groups here, first the ones who claim to be able to OC their chip to 5 Ghz with TIM, and they are right, the other group which run into thermal limits with their chips, and they are also right.

The problem with TIM is the inconsistency. One chip might do 5 Ghz with <80 C load temps, another might reach 100 at 4.7 Ghz. I've had multiple chips and have seen a lot of variance in the temps with TIM.

Solder is better than TIM any day. TIM may work for some people, but when it doesn't work well, it can be frustrating. I couldn't push more than 1.35v on my 6700k without reaching 100 C even on a water cooling with a 280 mm rad. The rad was cool to touch. Others were pushing 1.4v with ease.

I considered delidding several times, just didn't want to spend so much time on it, so settled at a lower OC.

 

[EarthDog]

Yes , we need to stop being overdramatic , I definitely agree. But such arguments wont really make people resort to more tempered responses.

Thing is , chances are no one will ever agree with the opposing party on this matter from what I've seen regardless of whether or not you are formally correct.

And such misinformation if left alone only propagates the overdramatic opinion further...quite a quandary, you see.

I didn't fight fire with fire. I put a cover on the pan by showering the forum with facts in an effort to keep the collective's head out of their rears.

 

[phanbuey]

And such misinformation if left alone only propagates the overdramatic opinion further...quite a quandary, you see.

I didn't fight fire with fire. I put a cover on the pan by showering the forum with facts in an effort to keep the collective's head out of their rears.

Dont you have a full $$ watercooling loop to your processor that extra 5C cooler for *drumroll* extra OC performance and longevity?

@jagjitnatt +1

 

[cadaveca]

The problem with TIM is the inconsistency. One chip might do 5 Ghz with <80 C load temps, another might reach 100 at 4.7 Ghz. I've had multiple chips and have seen a lot of variance in the temps with TIM.

I considered delidding several times, just didn't want to spend so much time on it, so settled at a lower OC.

That has nothing to do with the thermal interface material used. That's the CPUs not being of exactly equal quality, which has been some that most enthusiasts have exploited for OC'ing for as long as you've been able to OC.


Like, you've simply explained what anyone with access to many CPUs sees within one SKU... even soldered ones.

 

[Dave65]

That TIM!

 

[Vayra86]

And do we seriously need to gripe on such details ? Just like that thing about terms such TIM/solder/thermal paste posted above.

I feel like we've reached a point where no one has anything relevant to say anymore and we've come down to the most basic and feeble arguments and points.

Exactly what I said two pages ago, but this was already a reality since IvyBridge if you really think about it. We're half a decade further, still complaining, while Intel chips can do 5Ghz on air and the best competition has 4Ghz with tremendous added voltage under a soldered heatspreader.

Honestly, any sense of realism is far gone here by now. Meanwhile, all Intel had to do to hurt the brilliant Ryzen line up, was pull a release forward and here we are. With that awful paste no less.

Complaining that the winning team does it wrong - only on forum and comment sections does this really happen, do try this in the real world, you'll be laughed at.

 

[phanbuey]

That has nothing to do with the thermal interface material used. That's the CPUs not being of exactly equal quality, which has been some that most enthusiasts have exploited for OC'ing for as long as you've been able to OC.


Like, you've simply explained what anyone with access to many CPUs sees within one SKU... even soldered ones.

So I know it's not really this cut and dry but do you find with intel that, within the same SKU, you have some chips that are limited by thermal headroom and some because the processor maxes out at a wall? (I'm actually really curious - because i had a similar thermal bottleneck with a 360 rad 6700K but was unsure if that was skylake or just my sample)

Maybe the answer to make everyone happy is that intel just sells a delidded chip with the IHS in the box

 

[Vayra86]

So I know it's not really this cut and dry but do you find with intel that, within the same SKU, you have some chips that are limited by thermal headroom and some because the processor maxes out at a wall? (I'm actually really curious - because i had a similar thermal bottleneck with a 360 rad 6700K but was unsure if that was skylake or just my sample)

Maybe the answer to make everyone happy is that intel just sells a delidded chip with the IHS in the box

No the answer is that first Intel needs a competitor that does it better. That hasnt happened in 10 years but feel free to keep waiting.

Ill be honest, there hasnt been a more interesting mainstream CPU since the 5775C with this 8700K. Its a real step in the right direction for unlocking more than quad core for gaming, much more so than Ryzen has pushed that forward. In a couple of years, thats really going to pay off for all of us. The whole TIM discussion should be second fiddle to this IMO.

 

[Kyuuba]

Impressive performance, however they use Tooth Paste again, and that is my main issue with this. Besides you need yet another new mobo...

Will wait for next Ryzen for comparison, as apparently the 12nm version will come this February.

Lets wait and see what happens then. Am4's longevity + solder is more attractive to me than 10 extra fps.

But lets wait and see.

And then get your Ryzen soldered chip that has no overhead whatsoever for overclocking, pretty messed up logics you see these days.

 

[jagjitnatt]

That has nothing to do with the thermal interface material used. That's the CPUs not being of exactly equal quality, which has been some that most enthusiasts have exploited for OC'ing for as long as you've been able to OC.


Like, you've simply explained what anyone with access to many CPUs sees within one SKU... even soldered ones.

That is not accurate. You are trying to label it as silicon lottery. Sure, all CPUs are not equal. But when two dies are capable of similar speeds, but one is limited by the thermal interface, you have to put the blame where it is due.
Delidding has helped drop temps by as much as 25 C on some CPUs. One cannot be blind to that. Some CPUs, hell, most CPUs might not benefit from it, but there are millions of CPUs out there that need a delid for any OC headroom.

As I said, it is this inconsistency in application of TIM that causes different temps.
It is also frustrating when you spend 100s of dollars on high end CPUs and top of the line cooling gear, but you never use it to its potential because of something as trivial as TIM which literally costs less than a cent.

 

[Lionheart]

The Intel dick riding in here is over 9000 lol

Seems like a good chip though.

 

[Prima.Vera]

but...but...the i7-9700K is suppose to have 8 Cores next year and will require a new mobo.... AGAIN.