Global Warming & Climate Change Discussion

[StrayKAT]

It's hysteria to want clean air and clean water? That's fundamentally what it comes down to.


I don't support political solutions (that's not even a thing...politics solves nothing...it's like hiring a room full of architects when you only need a single engineer), I support tangible solutions. Third world nations shouldn't have to experience an industrial age if the technology is made available to them, at a price they can afford, to circumvent it. I think modular fusion reactors would go a very long way to achieving that. It's paramount nations with the means puts everything it can afford to making the breakthrough.

No, no.. I'm all in with that. Don't get me wrong.

But the whole "time is now" thing sounded a bit apocalyptic. This will move slowly at best. If it was as urgent as some like to say, we're already dead. It's time to prepare to live like Mad Max in that case. Not worry about the air.

I'm also just teasing a bit. You seem more practical than anything.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Truth is, there's already been actions taken regardless of what Washington thinks. Miami is elevating roads it is building. Energy efficiency in cars has gone up substantially because of Corporate Average Fuel Economy and consumer demands for fuel efficiency. Power companies have put in place a lot of incentives for people to replace old equipment with new, efficient or smart replacements. Power companies are also building wind turbines where they're feasible and adding capacity through natural gas instead of coal.

The thing that inspired the "time to act" is charts like this:

The things we could do to make this a nonissue, we're not doing.

 

[StrayKAT]

I'd actually like to hear more about the state of Miami after the flood is cleared a bit more. Haven't heard much about their progress, and this must've been a huge setback.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

"What will it take for people to recognize that a community of scientists are learning objective truths about the natural world and that you can benefit from knowing about it?" --Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

[StrayKAT]

"What will it take for people to recognize that a community of scientists are learning objective truths about the natural world and that you can benefit from knowing about it?" --Neil deGrasse Tyson

It will take them not taxing people to death and associating with politicians.

That alone would do wonders. Easier said than done though...apparently.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Simple enough solution: elect better representatives.

 

[R-T-B]

Sorry and its off topic
but they are considering backtracking and re instating Pluto (ABOUT TIME in my Opinion)
for god sake it has 5 confirmed moons ( more Suspected ) a suspected ring system and it orbits well outside of the inner Oort Cloud for most of its orbit
those other minor planets are justifiably KBO but pluto is not

It's still a matter of definitions and certainly not a mark against his science credibility.

 

[StrayKAT]

Bah! Pluto is definitely a planet. Damn Earth supremacists.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

But it's not because it's part of the Kuiper belt. The new, IAU definition of planet has three criteria and one of those is that it cleared its neighborhood (the mass of the planet caused objects in the same orbit to fall into it becoming one massive object). Pluto has a lot of neighbors in its orbit.

 

[AphexDreamer]

Wow, having revisited this page after a while its good to read that some people have started to change their minds about Climate change.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Solar industry fears for thousands of jobs should U.S. impose import restrictions

More than 90 percent of the world’s solar panel-making capacity is in Asia, with China accounting for 70 percent of the output followed by southeast Asia, O‘Neil said.

Dirtiest country in the world is producing most of the world's solar panels. How ironic.

 

[the54thvoid]

Solar industry fears for thousands of jobs should U.S. impose import restrictions

Dirtiest country in the world is producing most of the world's solar panels. How ironic.

That's more statistical than ironic. With 1.4 billion people (most populous nation on earth), you'd expect China (an industrial society) to be the worst for polluting as a percentage. Per capita though, it's well under other countries such as the oil states and the US.


It's their coal consumption that does it: here
For natural gas consumption: here


Wait till India wants it's full share of industrialisation. It's only smaller than China, population wise. CO2 time bomb.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The vast majority of people in China are still poor-impoverished. China only recently passed up USA in terms of raw manufacturing.

Something else that article says is that even though solar production is very localized, no one solar company has more than 8% of the global share. There's a lot of competitors vying for a breakthrough that isn't happening. That healthy competition is the reason why solar panel prices have fallen by 30%. At the same time, a lot of innovative solar companies went belly up as well. The future for solar doesn't look particularly bright, tariffs aside.

 

[the54thvoid]

The vast majority of people in China are still poor-impoverished. China only recently passed up USA in terms of raw manufacturing.

Something else that article says is that even though solar production is very localized, no one solar company has more than 8% of the global share. There's a lot of competitors vying for a breakthrough that isn't happening. That healthy competition is the reason why solar panel prices have fallen by 30%. At the same time, a lot of innovative solar companies went belly up as well. The future for solar doesn't look particularly bright, tariffs aside.

The article says nothing of solar powers future being negative, quite the opposite. A lot of companies went belly up due to reliance on subsidies. Just like any boom, only the better companies (or more ruthless) will survive. Solar power is improving its grid contribution and combined advances in battery tech mean it is more and more viable, in the right regions.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Battery tech is improving a lot. Solar tech isn't.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

The article says nothing of solar powers future being negative, quite the opposite. A lot of companies went belly up due to reliance on subsidies. Just like any boom, only the better companies (or more ruthless) will survive. Solar power is improving its grid contribution and combined advances in battery tech mean it is more and more viable, in the right regions.

In agreement on this point, though some facts may be in order.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...make-renewable-energy-so-costly/#2cbb805a128c

The thrust is that Solar is "cost effective" because of subsidies. Said subsidies are going away, and in short order those tax incentives will show what solar really costs.

As said before, nuclear mixed with renewable is the short term solution until more exotic reactors can be proven out. Maybe future generations can look back on this time as a changing point, but I'm still looking at Solar Roadways and scratching my head as to why the average person is too uninformed to see it was crap. You know what, screw the average person. I can see a lack of knowledge there due to specialization. The blame should be on a media that started pulling for this without spending the 20 minutes necessary to figure out its massive problems.



Additionally, solar cell technology is getting better:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell_efficiency#/media/File:PVeff(rev170414).jpg

The qualifier there is the common panels you might be buying for a house are not. Better technology, with a much greater price tag, is not a way forward. It is a way for people to feel good, while doing bad.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The qualifier there is the common panels you might be buying for a house are not.

Exactly, they're doing some great stuff in labs but it isn't mass produced.

 

[Ahhzz]

 

[qubit]

This heatwave currently affecting the northern hemisphere is awful. The temperature is reaching 40C or more in places like Spain and the more vulnerable people are starting to die.

The weather is getting noticeably hotter here in England, without me even trying to notice it. I seem to remember the predictions reckoning that these unbearable heatwaves would start to really affect us in 30-50 years time, but with what I'm seeing and feeling with my own eyes, along with the often record-breaking weather reports, suggests that it's started already and perhaps the warming is gonna be much more marked than anyone thought. Even the winters now are just mildly cold weather. I'm currently sitting here writing this post at my PC at 1:25 in the morning with the fan on high and it's 31C. It would be totally unbearable without the fan, but is "just" hot and sticky with it on.

I think the world is in for a nasty shock. No way is this natural, climate change skeptics.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm really upset about this.

EDIT: wanna clarify that I've noticed the summers getting hotter year on year and winters getting milder year on year.

 

[StrayKAT]

I think the real tragedy of climate science is it's controversy has dampened an actual clear and cut concern: pollution. Something people on both sides of the fence could fight, when it comes down to it. We all need to tackle these very tangible problems most of all.

I also don't think hyperbole and apocalyptic scenarios help anything. I'll be upfront - I am actually a religious person, but I've never been into eschatology (nor are a lot of religious people, just to point this out). Spirituality is about seeking contentment and peace, not anxiety and madness. So it's strange to see the same Chicken Little behavior play out in supposed scientific circles. It's like listening to those crazy people on the street with signs about the "World is Ending!" And if it's not scientists doing it themselves, they're still not stopping politicians and journalists from exaggerating the concerns. Or if this is some kind of tactic to get people to act, it's not going to work. They'll get sick of hearing the whining and just tune out. If you want to solve problems, you have to do better than be emotional and alarmist.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

This heatwave currently affecting the northern hemisphere is awful. The temperature is reaching 40C or more in places like Spain and the more vulnerable people are starting to die.

The weather is getting noticeably hotter here in England, without me even trying to notice it. I seem to remember the predictions reckoning that these unbearable heatwaves would start to really affect us in 30-50 years time, but with what I'm seeing and feeling with my own eyes, along with the often record-breaking weather reports, suggests that it's started already and perhaps the warming is gonna be much more marked than anyone thought. Even the winters now are just mildly cold weather. I'm currently sitting here writing this post at my PC at 1:25 in the morning with the fan on high and it's 31C. It would be totally unbearable without the fan, but is "just" hot and sticky with it on.

I think the world is in for a nasty shock. No way is this natural, climate change skeptics.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm really upset about this.

Global surface warming enhanced by weak Atlantic overturning circulation

TL;DR: Atlanic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC) is slowing causing your heat wave.

 

[StrayKAT]

For me, it's always been hot as hell in the summer. I live in Texas.

Yet just this last winter, it actually snowed. It hasn't happened in that area since the 80s.

Go figure.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Because the jet stream was way further south than it should be, likely because of all the polar ice melting in the Arctic. Same reason why Europe is getting warmer--the water coming south in the Atlantic isn't as cold as it used to be because there's less and less ice to counter the heat coming north.

Once the ice is mostly gone then everyone in the northern hemisphere gets hotter.

 

[StrayKAT]

One thing I forgot to mention is why scientists (some) would be so apocalyptic in their rhetoric, when they know full well what kind of weather the Earth has undergone since it's origins. This is peanuts. The planet could endure a million times worse (literally).

Humankind? Not so much. But that's a whole different subject. Don't tell me to "save the planet" when what you actually wish to do is save yourself.

 

[R-T-B]

One thing I forgot to mention is why scientists (some) would be so apocalyptic in their rhetoric, when they know full well what kind of weather the Earth has undergone since it's origins. This is peanuts. The planet could endure a million times worse (literally).

Humankind? Not so much. But that's a whole different subject. Don't tell me to "save the planet" when what you actually wish to do is save yourself.

I mean, the planet isn't much fun for humanity without humans.