AMD Unlikely to Fix DX9 Games Bugged by Adrenalin Driver

[Kursah]

And I say you don't know jack regarding what you're talking about, and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop. HBCC and Delta Color compression are miles apart as far as features go.

You have that distinct smell of a Fanboy, which I am very familiar with.

GCN 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4

I'd suggest you review the forum guidelines before continuing any form of communication on this forum, you're do. How you've been posting is unacceptable and is against said guidelines. Failing to follow them will result in earning infractions. Your call how this proceeds and this is your "free" warning.

This also goes for anyone else that wants to add any level of inappropriateness or toxicity to their posts. We'd appreciate you not doing so in the first place.

Thanks!

 

[OneMoar]

this WHOLE thing is microsofts fault the only reason DX9 hasn't been dead and gone for 10 years is windows xp and the idiots that keep supporting it
it needs to die every legacy api every legacy driver every single line of code needs to go

it is a performance and security disaster ANYTHING affiliated with the era should be burned and buried

 

[Romulus2K4]

They both necessitate changes to the GPU and memory controller to be implemented whereas DSR doesn't, that's my point.

What?

Perhaps I can guide you to the forum guidelines.
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/forum-guidelines.197329/

If you feel my posts are inappropriate, go ahead and report me to the admins, please. I encourage you to do so. I don't mind infractions or bans for saying things like they are.

and @Romulus2K4
shadup god everytime you post I want to cut my self

You'd probably be doing the world a favor.

I'd suggest you review the forum guidelines before continuing any form of communication on this forum, you're do. How you've been posting is unacceptable and is against said guidelines. Failing to follow them will result in earning infractions. Your call how this proceeds and this is your "free" warning.

This also goes for anyone else that wants to add any level of inappropriateness or toxicity to their posts. We'd appreciate you not doing so in the first place.

Thanks!

I tell you what, you can deactivate this account of mine right now, I wouldn't mind at all. While you're at it, remove all my posts too. Peace. TPU is a stupid forum anyways, full of retarded fanboys. I found that out years ago when I first joined here to discuss AMD drivers having a high CPU overhead, and I was told that AMD's drivers don't need any improvements regarding draw calls, and I am stupid for thinking such an issue exists.

 

[Aquinus]

Wow.. Fanboy's are out in force on this one. Just Wow. It shouldn't be surprising at all, but yet this kind of fanboyism never ceases to amaze.

I want to make it very clear that I'm not condoning AMD breaking compatibility with DX9 and they should fix it. What I am saying is that not everything is a driver problem.

Quit it with the name calling before a mod decides you need a vacation.

 

[OneMoar]

What?




If you feel my posts are inappropriate, go ahead and report me to the admins, please. I encourage you to do so. I don't mind infractions or bans for saying things like they are.




You'd probably be doing the world a favor.



I tell you what, you can deactivate this account of mine right now, I wouldn't mind at all. While you're at it, remove all my posts too. Peace. TPU is a stupid forum anyways, full of retarded fanboys. I found that out years ago when I first joined here to discuss AMD drivers having a high CPU overhead.

how you believe it to be, and how it accually is are two entirely different things

Your Opinion is just that Yours and yours alone. just because you think you are right and just does not make you so

*unless you are me

 

[Aquinus]

I tell you what, you can deactivate this account of mine right now, I wouldn't mind at all.

@Kursah, I think that's a challenge.

 

[OneMoar]

I want to make it very clear that I'm not condoning AMD breaking compatibility with DX9 and they should fix it. What I am saying is that not everything is a driver problem.

Quit it with the name calling before a mod decides you need a vacation.

game developers where told that DX9 was depreciated 12 years ago they choose not to act well now there games don't work anymore so sad too bad

 

[MuhammedAbdo]

What OS are you running those old games on. I know that W10 doesn't run anything below DX9 properly, so is it W7 perhaps?

No Win 10 64bit, just yesterday I ran Max Payne 1, Tribes: Vengeance, Road Rage, Red Alert 2, Hitman 1, they all ran without a hitch.

 

[Aquinus]

game developers where told that DX9 was depreciated 12 years ago they choose not to act well now there games don't work anymore so sad too bad

It's more than likely that part of another DX API was using some of the same code that DX9 was and a change to that shared code caused something to break in DX9. Ideally, this should have been caught in testing and there is absolutely no reason why older APIs should break if they're not explicitly being deprecated. This is a problem that can be avoided and I suspect that AMD will pull the changes apart so DX9 has the older code while all the other DX revisions have the newer code because, if it's shared code with DX9, there is a good bet that it touches everything going forward as well (with the exception of possibly DX12 but, you never know.)

 

[OneMoar]

It's more than likely that part of another DX API was using some of the same code that DX9 was and a change to that shared code caused something to break in DX9. Ideally, this should have been caught in testing and there is absolutely no reason why older APIs should break if they're not explicitly being deprecated. This is a problem that can be avoided and I suspect that AMD will pull the changes apart so DX9 has the older code while all the other DX revisions have the newer code because, if it's shared code with DX9, there is a good bet that it touches everything going forward as well (with the exception of possibly DX12.)

I am sure it came up and I am sure they said fawk it

that leads to spaghetti code and thats what AMD is trying to fix years of spaghetti code

they might back pedal if enough people complain but it would hardly be worth the effort its 2018 if you want to play older DX9 games get a older computer

 

[Kursah]

@Kursah, I think that's a challenge.

Unfortunately it appears that way.

Challenge accepted.

As for the rest of you here, if I see anymore name calling, labeling, toxic BS, expect to earn infractions and bans. Play nice, follow our rules or STFU and move on.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I want to make it very clear that I'm not condoning AMD breaking compatibility with DX9 and they should fix it. What I am saying is that not everything is a driver problem.

Quit it with the name calling before a mod decides you need a vacation.

Thanks for the advice, but I don't think my comment is what Kursah was referring to.

 

[Aquinus]

I am sure it came up and I am sure they said fawk it

that leads to spaghetti code and thats what AMD is trying to fix years of spaghetti code

they might back pedal if enough people complain but it would hardly be worth the effort its 2018 if you want to play older DX9 games get a older computer

It's probably because they tried to treat DX like OGL where newer versions only added features, they didn't change existing ones. DX on the otherhand just screws with everything every time there is a major release which is the equivalent of going from OGL to Vulkan every time, which is crap.

Thanks for the advice, but I don't think my comment is what Kursah was referring to.

No but, directing it a one person or many people probably doesn't make a difference. Name calling is name calling. There is no need to make this personal.

 

[OneMoar]

porting from DX9 to 11 isn't THAT much work if you just stick to code path compatibility and don't bother with the extra functionality

I think AMD is just going though and ripping out any code that hasn't been touched in a few years
which given the history of their drivers isn't a terrible idea
API's sometimes die like this OGL 1.5,Glide,openal it happens time stops for no coder

 

[Kursah]

Thanks for the advice, but I don't think my comment is what Kursah was referring to.

I was warning everyone here, while warning the most toxic individual in the thread.

No need for the Fanboy/Fanboi talk here either, IMHO it detracts from an actual conversation and debate by adding in name calling and labelling. Both against the rules here and I will ask you and others nor to proceed with.

Alright, enough of all that. Let's keep this thread on track, play nice and enjoy!

 

[Aquinus]

porting from DX9 to 11 isn't THAT much work if you just stick to code path compatibility and don't bother with the extra functionality

That's the game dev side but, think about the driver. The API looks and feels very similar so you would think, those things do the same thing under the hood but that isn't necessarily the case. Driver dev is a very different world than dev'ing against that driver.

API's sometimes die like this OGL 1.5

Remember, OpenGL adds features with every version it doesn't replace them. OGL 1.5 only included 3 features so, if you don't use them, it doesn't matter. DX doesn't work that way.

Example: Every most OpenGL application uses OpenGL 1.0 because that's how you draw.

 

[lexluthermiester]

There is no need to make this personal.

I was warning everyone here, while warning the most toxic individual in the thread. No need for the Fanboy/Fanboi talk here either, IMHO it detracts from an actual conversation and debate by adding in name calling and labelling. Both against the rules here and I will ask you and others nor to proceed with. Alright, enough of all that. Let's keep this thread on track, play nice and enjoy!

Fair enough.

Thing is, we can all see that a lot of blame is being levied at AMD or NVidia and even MS. The thing is, blaming and complaining about the DX9 API now is like crying over spilled milk. Things are the way they are, complaining about them post-hence serves no purpose. What the focus needs to be is finding a solution. I've offered two that will work. But there's got to be more.

 

[OneMoar]

That's the game dev side but, think about the driver. The API looks and feels very similar so you would think, those things do the same thing under the hood but that isn't necessarily the case. Driver dev is a very different world than dev'ing against that driver.

Remember, OpenGL adds features with every version it doesn't replace them. OGL 1.5 only included 3 features so, if you don't use them, it doesn't matter. DX doesn't work that way.

Example: Every most OpenGL application uses OpenGL 1.0 because that's how you draw.

except the differences in DX9 and 11+ shading and threading models are different enough where needing to support both incurs a penalty because so many functions are shared but handled differently
supporting both code paths is a nightmare

 

[Aquinus]

Fair enough.

Things is, we can all see that a lot of blame is being levied at AMD or NVidia and even MS. The thing is, blaming and complaining about the DX9 API now is like crying over spilled milk. Things are the way they are, complaining about them post-hence serves no purpose. What the focus needs to be is finding a solution. I've offered two that will work. But there's got to be more.

Microsoft's archaic and monolithic approach to graphics APIs over the decades has contributed to this problem. OpenGL has grown far more gracefully than DX has because DX doesn't grow, DX gets replaced. It's hard to manage change, which is why strictly adding features and not changing them yields stability and scalability. Rewriting APIs takes a ton of time for everyone involved and it's a terrible way to develop software.

except the differences in DX9 and 11+ shading and threading models are different enough where needing to support both incurs a penalty because so many functions are shared but handled differently
supporting both code paths is a nightmare

You can thank Microsoft for that nightmare, not the driver dev shops that have to implement them.

 

[OneMoar]

Microsoft's archaic and monolithic approach to graphics APIs over the decades has contributed to this problem. OpenGL has grown far more gracefully than DX has because DX doesn't grow, DX gets replaced. It's hard to manage change, which is why strictly adding features and not changing them yields stability and scalability. Rewriting APIs takes a ton of time for everyone involved and it's a terrible way to develop software.

You can thank Microsoft for that nightmare, not the driver dev shops that have to implement them.

this WHOLE thing is microsofts fault the only reason DX9 hasn't been dead and gone for 10 years is windows xp and the idiots that keep supporting it
it needs to die every legacy api every legacy driver every single line of code needs to go

it is a performance and security disaster ANYTHING affiliated with the era should be burned and buried

 

[lexluthermiester]

Microsoft's archaic and monolithic approach to graphics APIs over the decades has contributed to this problem. OpenGL has grown far more gracefully than DX has because DX doesn't grow, DX gets replaced. It's hard to manage change, which is why strictly adding features and not changing them yields stability and scalability. Rewriting APIs takes a ton of time for everyone involved and it's a terrible way to develop software.

True or not, it still amounts to crying over spilled milk. Instead, finding solutions to the current problem is more constructive and productive.

 

[OneMoar]

True or not, it still amounts to crying over spilled milk. Instead, finding solutions to the current problem is more constructive and productive.

but there is no problem
No your 10 year old games not working is Not a problem its time, time moves on

 

[lexluthermiester]

but there is no problem
No your 10 year old games not working is Not a problem its time, time moves on

It's a problem for those people who have current gen Radeon GPU's and still love & play those games. I still have and play many of the games affected. So I can empathize with those having difficulties.

 

[OneMoar]

It's a problem for those people who have current gen Radeon GPU's and still love & play those games.

buy a older gpu

 

[cdawall]

Wow.. Fanboy's are out in force on this one. Just Wow. It shouldn't be surprising at all, but yet this kind of fanboyism never ceases to amaze.

AMD should at least look at this problem as A LOT of great games run on DX9. The solution might very well be simple. However, DX9 is a retired API. Devoting resources to it is not and should not be a priority for them anymore than it would be for NVidia.

Folks, the solution is simple. Built an inexpensive retro gaming rig and install the mainstream OS of the time. Most systems built in 2012 have support for WinXP, which is a great OS for the games affected and anything else DX9.

Alternatively, you could dual boot on the same system with either a second partition or a second SSD/HDD and use the older drivers without the bug.

Or simply buy an nvidia card that not only performs better, but still supports the games.