• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Qantas uses 150 acres of mustard seeds to power 15 hour biofuel flight

CAPSLOCKSTUCK

Spaced Out Lunar Tick
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
8,578 (2.01/day)
Location
llaregguB...WALES
System Name Party On
Processor Xeon w 3520
Motherboard DFI Lanparty
Cooling Big tower thing
Memory 6 gb Ballistix Tracer
Video Card(s) HD 7970
Case a plank of wood
Audio Device(s) seperate amp and 6 big speakers
Power Supply Corsair
Mouse cheap
Keyboard under going restoration
The world's first US-Australia biofuel flight successfully completed its first journey today powered by fuel made from mustard seeds.

The Qantas QF96 plane completed a 15-hour trans-Pacific flight using 24,000 litres of biofuel blend.

Qantas estimates the plane saved around 18,000kg in carbon emissions during the flight.

But while it lowered emissions in the air, the biofuel used to power the single journey took up 150 acres of land to create - an area bigger than the Vatican City.

1517392741261.png


The QF96 flight from Los Angeles to Melbourne used fuel developed by Canadian agricultural-technology company Agrisoma Biosciences.

The carinata seed used in the latest flight makes high-quality oil with one hectare of seeds (2.47 acres) producing 400 litres of biofuel, writes Traveller.

Within just one day after harvesting the oil can be pressed and used as fuel




HOW HAS BIOFUEL BEEN USED IN PLANES?

In 2008 Virgin Atlantic became the first airline to power a commercial flight using biofuel.

The flight, between London's Heathrow and Amsterdam, used a fuel made from a mixture of Brazilian babassu nuts and coconuts which provided 20 per cent of the engine's power.

'This pioneering flight will enable those of us who are serious about reducing our carbon emissions to go on developing the fuels of the future,' said CEO Richard Branson at the time.

many airlines are now looking into incorporate biofuels on commercial flights.

In 2011, Alaska Airlines operated 75 flights on a cooking oil blend.

In 2014, a Finnish airline used a mix of recycled cooking oil and jet fuel to power a long-distance flight.

Finnair said it will be able to reduce its net carbon dioxide emission by 50 to 80 per cent by switching to a more sustainable and environmentally-friendly fuel source.

But biofuel is more than twice the price of conventionally produced jet fuel and it is too costly for any airline to operate with it exclusively.

In 2017 a Chinese airline boss flew 186 passengers and 15 crew members from Beijing to Chicago with the help of recycled cooking oil.

Sun Jianfeng, the President of China's largest private air carrier Hainan Airlines, was the captain of the 11-hour flight which flew across the Pacific on November 21.

Last year, Singapore Airlines also launched their first-ever flight powered by cooking oil.

The aircraft was powered by a combination of hydro-processed esters and fatty acids - a sustainable biofuel produced from used cooking oils - and conventional jet fuel.

By 2020 Qantas aims to have biofuel-based flights running regularly.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
27,494 (6.63/day)
While the intentions are admirable, the long-term sustainability & practicality is dubious at best. There simply isn't enough room on the planet to grow enough bio-material to fuel even 1/4 of the worlds aircraft. The better solution is to find more powerful fuel chemistries & blending techniques, developing stronger & lighter fuselage materials and design more efficient engines.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,011 (0.15/day)
Processor 2500K @ 4.5GHz 1.28V
Motherboard ASUS P8P67 Deluxe
Cooling Corsair A70
Memory 8GB (2x4GB) Corsair Vengeance 1600 9-9-9-24 1T
Video Card(s) eVGA GTX 470
Storage Crucial m4 128GB + Seagate RAID 1 (1TB x 2)
Display(s) Dell 22" 1680x1050 nothing special
Case Antec 300
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply PC Power & Cooling 750W
Software Windows 7 64bit Pro
While the intentions are admirable, the long-term sustainability & practicality is dubious at best. There simply isn't enough room on the planet to grow enough bio-material to fuel even 1/4 of the worlds aircraft. The better solution is to find more powerful fuel chemistries & blending techniques, developing stronger & lighter fuselage materials and design more efficient engines.

Don't forget some of the more unpopular ideas to increase efficiency...... decrease the number of flights so that each flight is more completely booked in addition to cramming as many of us in there as possible. Maybe have an entire pool of passengers that "register" in the morning and you keep filling flights to their destination until finally there is a flight that wouldn't be filled, then those unlucky leftovers get to wait until the next day and get priority on the first flight out in the morning. The customers would hate it but it would add to less energy wasted.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
12,062 (2.63/day)
Location
Gypsyland, UK
System Name HP Omen 17
Processor i7 7700HQ
Memory 16GB 2400Mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) GTX 1060
Storage Samsung SM961 256GB + HGST 1TB
Display(s) 1080p IPS G-SYNC 75Hz
Audio Device(s) Bang & Olufsen
Power Supply 230W
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD+
Software Win 10 Pro
While the intentions are admirable, the long-term sustainability & practicality is dubious at best. There simply isn't enough room on the planet to grow enough bio-material to fuel even 1/4 of the worlds aircraft. The better solution is to find more powerful fuel chemistries & blending techniques, developing stronger & lighter fuselage materials and design more efficient engines.

To quote some numbers from another site running this article:

Some BoE numbers. Quick Google says that in 2012 (first result) the aviation industry consumed about 5000 barrels of fuel per day, or around 800,000 litres. That's roughly 300,000,000 litres a year. To displace 10% of that we'd need to plant 75,000 ha a year to mustard seed.

Hmm. Now that I look at the numbers, that's not actually too bad. I thought it would be much worse.

Approximate land area being farmed in Kansas, USA: 74489 sq miles

75,000 ha of mustard seed = 289.5 sq miles
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
27,494 (6.63/day)
Don't forget some of the more unpopular ideas to increase efficiency...... decrease the number of flights so that each flight is more completely booked in addition to cramming as many of us in there as possible. Maybe have an entire pool of passengers that "register" in the morning and you keep filling flights to their destination until finally there is a flight that wouldn't be filled, then those unlucky leftovers get to wait until the next day and get priority on the first flight out in the morning. The customers would hate it but it would add to less energy wasted.
Interesting. It's easy to see how problems might develop, but there is merit to those ideas.
Quick Google says that in 2012 (first result) the aviation industry consumed about 5000 barrels of fuel per day, or around 800,000 litres.
That isn't even close. Excluding aircraft with a seating load smaller that 100, on average in any one moment there are over 3000 aircraft in the air world-wide with over 7000 flights per given 24 hour period. Each aircraft on average carries between 35000 and 65000 liters, depending on the aircraft, and uses much of that on any given flight. So those numbers simply don't add up. However, mustard plants are very hardy and could be cultivated in desert areas with the right methodologies employed. Anything is possible, but again, how practical is it?
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
6,040 (1.14/day)
System Name RemixedBeast-NX
Processor Intel Xeon E5-2690 @ 2.9Ghz (8C/16T)
Motherboard Dell Inc. 08HPGT (CPU 1)
Cooling Dell Standard
Memory 24GB ECC
Video Card(s) Gigabyte Nvidia RTX2060 6GB
Storage 2TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD//2TB WD Black HDD
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster P2350 23in @ 1920x1080 + Dell E2013H 20 in @1600x900
Case Dell Precision T3600 Chassis
Audio Device(s) Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 // Fiio E7 Amp/DAC
Power Supply 630w Dell T3600 PSU
Mouse Logitech G700s/G502
Keyboard Logitech K740
Software Linux Mint 20
Benchmark Scores Network: APs: Cisco Meraki MR32, Ubiquiti Unifi AP-AC-LR and Lite Router/Sw:Meraki MX64 MS220-8P
biofuels are wastes of land and soil nutirents that can be used to grow food. bio fuels are very unsistainable and are just for "philantropists" to stroke their egos. best to use nuclear
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.47/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
USA is vastly overproducing corn so transition some of the FAA incentives to produce corn to produce mustard seeds instead.

The problem is that I think it was 150 acres of mustard seeds just for this *one* flight. Crops only get harvested once per year (I think). So unless you're planning to fly that aircraft only once per year, it's not enough.

This one is a particularly long flight at 15 hours. Let's say it's made every 3 days so 360 / 3 = 120 flights made in a year which means 18,000 acres to service that one aircraft. There's 640 acres per square mile so you'd need over 28 square miles worth of mustard fields.
 
Last edited:

silentbogo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
5,538 (1.38/day)
Location
Kyiv, Ukraine
System Name WS#1337
Processor Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard ASUS X570-PLUS TUF Gaming
Cooling Xigmatek Scylla 240mm AIO
Memory 4x8GB Samsung DDR4 ECC UDIMM
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 3070 Gaming X Trio
Storage ADATA Legend 2TB + ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) Samsung U24E590D (4K/UHD)
Case ghetto CM Cosmos RC-1000
Audio Device(s) ALC1220
Power Supply SeaSonic SSR-550FX (80+ GOLD)
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Modecom Volcano Blade (Kailh choc LP)
VR HMD Google dreamview headset(aka fancy cardboard)
Software Windows 11, Ubuntu 24.04 LTS
USA is vastly overproducing corn so transition some of the FAA incentives to produce corn to produce mustard seeds instead. I doubt it's a huge problem.
Lol. I remember this one.
There are few reasons why US is overproducing corn, and all are related to government and free money.
Basically some time ago, when the whole "green energy" thing took off on a massive scale, US govt. started pouring tons of money into ridiculous stuff, like growing more corn for ethanol/biofuel production, wind farms in inappropriate places, "creative" energy storage tech and other ridiculous stuff. Even though the whole thing ended up being a flop, like Obama's investment into domestic solar panel production (see Suniva and SolarWorld), those fields are still growing corn and getting cash from deep federal pocket cause politicians are slow and forgetful.
Found this brief article, if you are interested:
https://www.taxpayer.net/energy-nat...l-subsidies-corn-ethanol-corn-based-biofuels/
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.47/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
It's not a "flop." The crop insurance (which is biased towards corn) is to protect farmers from bad years. It is keeping farms afloat and the food supply secure but it has become mismanaged because it over-incentivizes the production of corn since other crops are considered risky. It needs tweaking to diversify what is grown and secure a broader range of crops.
 

the54thvoid

Super Intoxicated Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
13,010 (2.39/day)
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar B650 (wifi)
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
Memory 32GB Kingston Fury
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX4070ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 M.2 1TB / Samsumg 960 Pro M.2 512Gb
Display(s) LG 32" 165Hz 1440p GSYNC
Case Asus Prime AP201
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply be quiet! Pure POwer M12 850w Gold (ATX3.0)
Software W10
biofuels are wastes of land and soil nutirents that can be used to grow food. bio fuels are very unsistainable and are just for "philantropists" to stroke their egos. best to use nuclear

You need a transportable fuel. A nuclear reactor on a plane doesn't really work.

Nuclear is the best short term solution for global energy but plants take years to create, billions to construct and the waste produced takes literally tens of thousands of years to become non-hazardous. If only we had Japanese style super monsters that could eat radiation. Where's Mothra?
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.47/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
NASA is building a micro fission reactor for use in space. It is possible that such a reactor could fit on, say, a train engine.
 
Top