The State of Cryptocurrency

[yesyesloud]

So what is it at right now? Where are my cheap 1080Tis? /s

Probably being RMAed, refurbished and then shipped out to different poor bastards who also tried to RMA their brand new but secretly refurbished 1080Tis

I only got a properly working 1080Ti - meaning suitable for gaming/not artifacting - after selling my Nvidia-branded FE unit and "upgrading" to a Gigabyte Gaming OC.

Crypto and hardware are intertwined to the core.
I lost a lot of money on ASICS. They depreciate too fast for ROI.

ASICs may depreciate at a certain rate but GPUs aren't aging like fine wine either (at least when it comes to mining).

The Antminer S9 is doing better at BTC/BCH mining than any 10x more expensive multi-gpu setup would do right now. I'm aware that ASICs turn into garbage within 2-3 years from their release dates while abused GPUs can still be sold for a decent amount, but I can't say money is actually wasted when you do the math beforehand, within a reasonable margin.

As for the increasing greed mumbo jumbo cryptocurrencies brought up lately, sure, it's pretty annoying. Regardless, there's also a very interesting, complex technical side to it.

 

[R-T-B]

ASICs may depreciate at a certain rate but GPUs aren't aging like fine wine either (at least when it comes to mining).

I don't know, ASICs tend to have back to back releases at trickle-down new nodes, we're talking like 3 months to obsolescence. They just aren't a good way to make money.

This was 2013 though. Maybe it's changed since nodes stopped jumping around.

 

[RCoon]

its time the mods did something about the situation

Asking members of TPU to stop overly preaching/complaining (yes, they're as bad as each other) is like leaving a bucket of skittles in a preschool and asking the children not to eat any.

I actively monitor the Crypto subsection daily, every fifteen minutes, more than I do for any other part of the site, to try to ensure things don't get out of hand. It is a very fine line to police.

 

[R-T-B]

Asking members of TPU to stop overly preaching/complaining (yes, they're as bad as each other) is like leaving a bucket of skittles in a preschool and asking the children not to eat any.

I actively monitor the Crypto subsection daily, every fifteen minutes, more than I do for any other part of the site, to try to ensure things don't get out of hand. It is a very fine line to police.

Ick. I don't envy you.

 

[yesyesloud]

I don't know, ASICs tend to have back to back releases at trickle-down new nodes, we're talking like 3 months to obsolescence. They just aren't a good way to make money.

This was 2013 though. Maybe it's changed since nodes stopped jumping around.

People are still using the Antminer S7 (released in 2015) in several profitable areas. I'm afraid it turned out to be a good way to make money.

ASIC is likely the only way to mine BTC/BCH properly nowadays as it's literally millions of times more efficient than GPUs in this particular task. Just compare MH/s with TH/s, basically the difference between recent GPUs and recent ASICs. Also good for other BTC-like cryptocurrencies (SHA-265 derived favoring raw processing power over RAM amount and frequency).

Things seem to have changed a bit since 2013.

 

[R-T-B]

People are still using the Antminer S7 (released in 2015) in several profitable areas. I'm afraid ASIC turned out to be a good way to make money.

ASIC is likely the only way to mine BTC/BCH properly nowadays as it's literally millions of times more efficient than GPUs in this particular task. Just compare MH/s with TH/s, basically the difference between recent GPUs and recent ASICs. Also good for other BTC-like cryptocurrencies (SHA-265 derived favoring raw processing power over RAM amount and frequency).

Things seem to have changed a bit since 2013.

I was dealing with litecoin (scrypt) ASICs too, no idea how that mixes things up...

 

[yesyesloud]

I was dealing with litecoin (scrypt) ASICs too, no idea how that mixes things up...

I can definitely see why the hardware restriction (non-ASIC-only) is important for most altcoin communities. Keeping ASIC slightly less ahead of the game (through different algorithms and/or automated gear clearance) is a good idea since many btc "farmers" own hundreds when not thousands of units.

So... For most things non-BTC, GPUs may remain great... And better.

Not sure some ASICs can't yield profitable amounts of LTC though as bitmain accepts offers in such currency

 

[trog100]

I don't know, ASICs tend to have back to back releases at trickle-down new nodes, we're talking like 3 months to obsolescence. They just aren't a good way to make money.

This was 2013 though. Maybe it's changed since nodes stopped jumping around.

i read something yesterday stating that the large ASIC miners are hurting.. with prices down down around the 8000/9000 level they are not in profit.. they need over 12000/13000 to be in profit..


trog

 

[Mindweaver]

Asking members of TPU to stop overly preaching/complaining (yes, they're as bad as each other) is like leaving a bucket of skittles in a preschool and asking the children not to eat any.

I actively monitor the Crypto subsection daily, every fifteen minutes, more than I do for any other part of the site, to try to ensure things don't get out of hand. It is a very fine line to police.

Yea, I'm finding myself watching "these" threads a lot lately as well. They can turn sour quick. I rarely join in, because I know little to nothing about it, but I do find it interesting and have enjoyed the informative posts by the actual miners. I can say without a doubt that when I started monitoring these threads I was very much against mining, but I understand it more now, and feel more neutral about the subject. I can't say I'll ever be a "miner", but I can understand the interest after reading these threads and also being apart of WCG.

 

[ShiBDiB]

Yea, I'm finding myself watching "these" threads a lot lately as well. They can turn sour quick. I rarely join in, because I know little to nothing about it, but I do find it interesting and have enjoyed the informative posts by the actual miners. I can say without a doubt that when I started monitoring these threads I was very much against mining, but I understand it more now, and feel more neutral about the subject. I can't say I'll ever be a "miner", but I can understand the interest after reading these threads and also being apart of WCG.

As a staff member has their been any talk of moving crypto to general nonsense or whatever that new forum section is called?

 

[dorsetknob]

On the whole i think the Crypto sub forum is fine and appropriate where it is
some threads could and should be moved to the lounge where they are better suited (this one for example)
there are quite a few posts made in the Video card section that in my opinion should be in the crypto forum
mainly flashing in regards to mining.
Those i understand would be difficult to assign to any perticular forum section as they can be covered in both forums guess those mods would have to debate this (is it a problem? )

 

[rtwjunkie]

This. And you are correct in that mining is not causing this, human nature is causing it.

Except.....TPU members have never sided up this angrily or viciously, not even in the most fervent Nvidia vs AMD spats. This is deeper. Mining may not be the cause, but it is the facilitator.

To make a fire, you must have a spark, and in this case it is cards being hoarded in large numbers.

I'm not saying this from an anger position, but as an observer, since I don't need a card right now. Many do though.

One interesting thing, it seems like a lot of 970's and 980's are finding new homes in the used market. Thankfully most even recent games still can run well on those at 1440 and below.

 

[R-T-B]

As a staff member has their been any talk of moving crypto to general nonsense or whatever that new forum section is called?

Frankly, the fact that the w1zzard is eagerly awaiting my next crypto article has me leaning towards "no."

The best you can hope for is a ban on discussing the politics of it... frankly I feel one is overdue. TPU has never been a place for politics.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Obviously, discussion of the topic really is moot unless it is from a strictly tech perspective. No one discussing in forums is going to change this in either direction.

Only the market will decide.

 

[yesyesloud]

i read something yesterday stating that the large ASIC miners are hurting.. with prices down down around the 8000/9000 level they are not in profit.. they need over 12000/13000 to be in profit..

Considering that most bitcoin farms started several years ago, they lost plenty of net value the same way they gained it in the long run.

BTC took a yooge hit but the major mines were already geared up with the most up-to-date hardware a year or so before the great bubble. From a technical perspective, they can't be losing money due to operating costs, for instance. All in all, they're still mining with the best, most power efficient hardware.

Also, we can't guess how much they converted into actual money/investments likely helping pop the bubble themselves cuz, say, fright. It's fun to watch the implosion though

 

[Space Lynx]

Frankly, the fact that the w1zzard is eagerly awaiting my next crypto article has me leaning towards "no."

The best you can hope for is a ban on discussing the politics of it... frankly I feel one is overdue. TPU has never been a place for politics.

This is why I prefer and spend most of my time at Overclock.net no politics allowed, and crypto discussion is pretty limited as well, its only for those of us who enjoy PC hardware, tech news, gaming, science news, etc. none of this nonsense, which is just the way I like it. I only come here from time to time to TPU because I like the reviews of hardware better here.

 

[yotano211]

Ick. I don't envy you.

Me neither

 

[ShiBDiB]

This is why I prefer and spend most of my time at Overclock.net no politics allowed, and crypto discussion is pretty limited as well, its only for those of us who enjoy PC hardware, tech news, gaming, science news, etc. none of this nonsense, which is just the way I like it. I only come here from time to time to TPU because I like the reviews of hardware better here.

TPU used to be great, probably the best overall forum with great articles... now the articles are still good but the forum is shit.

 

[Mindweaver]

As a staff member has their been any talk of moving crypto to general nonsense or whatever that new forum section is called?

No, IMO I feel it's to relevant to hardware and even software to a lesser degree. It maybe hard to believe, but there are sections I don't care for, and I stay out of them, other than moderating.

Plus, GN is mainly for non tech related stuff and mining is very much tech related no matter how you spin it.

 

[R-T-B]

TPU used to be great, probably the best overall forum with great articles... now the articles are still good but the forum is shit.

I still think the forum and community are great... We just need to tackle this.

 

[trog100]

I still think the forum and community are great... We just need to tackle this.

its pretty easy to tackle.. people that troll the crypto section purely because they hate crypto for whatever reason need to be seen as the bad guys.. if they have something usefull to say.. say it by all means but this one liner trolling needs to stop.. trolling is bad dont f-cking do it.. if mods cant handle that maybe they need to change their thinking..

currently the trolls are simply being allowed to continue without censure of any kind.. this is whats wrong..

they dont have to come to this section.. and they certainly should not come just to troll..

the trolls are the bad guys but if i tell one to f-ck off its me that would be censured.. so in that sense the trolls are being protected.. i can handle trolls okay but not when mods are protecting the f-ckers..

rant over..

trog

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

im not really anti crypto. im just not appreciative of what its community has done to the market. i respect your opinion on the matter, TPU was here before Mining, and will be after, i just hope the latter comes sooner than later.

also, the whole "crypto" thread trend, seems more financially driven than tech driven, IMHO its off site topic, and out of place here when that direction is the predominant focus.
(im certainly the last person to claim "on topic" driven, as im a clown who jokes 95% of the time, it just seems like a LOT of crypto related conversation would better be suited in a different location. but what do i know....just one guys opinion.

I can see your point. However a lot of techies are into crypto. The entire infrastructure, back-end and mining are awesome tech. The financial end is pretty much unavoidable though as it is a direct relation to the techs success.

As a staff member has their been any talk of moving crypto to general nonsense or whatever that new forum section is called?

Dood if you don't like it...don't participate..wow. You need a mod to censor threads for you when you can CHOOSE not to participate?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I can see your point. However a lot of techies are into crypto. The entire infrastructure, back-end and mining are awesome tech. The financial end is pretty much unavoidable though as it is a direct relation to the techs success.



Dood if you don't like it...don't participate..wow. You need a mod to censor threads for you when you can CHOOSE not to participate?

some are very much in this category I got into it due to an already abundant ish access to gpus due to folding at home ,its always a hobby not a life choice and personally i am keeping it fairly calm on the mining front (8s enough for me) but it is 100% mostly the messing with the tech i enjoy and do it for ,the rests a bit murky but sufferable to me.

 

[yesyesloud]

Hey, I was looking for some decent ASIC and came across this:

GMO Internet’s Cryptocurrency Mining Business Develops 12 nm FFC Process Technology for Semiconductor Chips: Progressing towards realizing a cutting-edge 7 nm process technology for mining chips (referrer: https://mining.gmo.jp/en/)

The hashrate leap will reach new heights. If it's also aimed at altcoins (kinda doubt it), we'll behold something entirely new. Perhaps we're on the verge of another bubble

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Doubt it. The bubble was created by investors, not miners. If there's no profit in mining though, miners will leave too.