The State of Cryptocurrency

[Space Lynx]

TPU used to be great, probably the best overall forum with great articles... now the articles are still good but the forum is shit.

Yep, the problem is there is no moderation on TPU. OCN annoys me sometimes with how strict it is in not cussing, no politics of any kind, etc and so on and so forth, but at the end of the day it really does keep the focus on what we are all originally there for to begin with hobby wise.

Doubt it. The bubble was created by investors, not miners. If there's no profit in mining though, miners will leave too.

I disagree with you on this one, a lot of the big miners in China are practically stealing electricity for free (some even have massive ASIC miners hidden in river mountain cave areas, I have seen pics). Even for those that do pay electricity and lose out, lot of big time miners still have an almost cult like religious fervor that Bitcoin is the future and they are willing to die for it, and they will, I have no doubt in my mind, keep their massive mining operations up and going at a loss all for the sake of "hope" that it will win out in the end.

Honestly there will be no way to prove them wrong, Bitcoin will exist whether it's $1 or $1 million per coin, it will exist, its just... a disillusion I think some people have. The funny thing about the vast majority of humans, is that they live paycheck to paycheck, no one can afford to invest in securities (mass populations I am referring to), and those of us with very high IQ's know that long term investment is still gold since gold actually has scientific properties and will be needed always. The world existed without the block chain and still does, so the world wants it, but doesn't need it. Risk /Reward ratios are much higher when want is the key word and not need.

I still stick with my original criticism of Bitcoin, even though I said a few posts back I knew it would rise again in price, it most likely is big big spenders doing the buying to trick the masses, its no different than corrupt companies doing insider trading at this point, but Bitcoin doesn't have the SEC eyeing it, thats why Bitcoin is still rising. Until the true believers of Bitcoin realize they are being played, they will just keep HODL'in night and day, waiting for that magic 500k moment John Mcfee promised.

 

[erocker]

I was speaking to TPU as a whole. It's gotten bad here as of late. Your quote was mostly coincidental. I just want to see the glee at misfortune stop.

Well.. When the discussion of something that is tanking the hobby that we're mostly here for, people aren't going to act great. As a matter of fact, I don't see how this discussion helps anything here. It's bickering and garbage.

there is no moderation on TPU

What do you mean? We respond to when the community reports something. I guess if you're unsatisfied, you failed on that part. I can only hope TPU never becomes the overzealous pit that is OCN.

 

[Space Lynx]

Well.. When the discussion of something that is tanking the hobby that we're mostly here for, people aren't going to act great. As a matter of fact, I don't see how this discussion helps anything here. It's bickering and garbage.

What do you mean? We respond to when the community reports something. I guess if you're unsatisfied, you failed on that part. I can only hope TPU never becomes the overzealous pit that is OCN.

No no mate, I was referring to cussing, I mean heck the guy I quoted and supported literally just cussed in the quote I was quoting. It is allowed here. I am saying maybe there is something subconcious related to having a strict forum rule set that keeps people focused, both forums are similar in a lot of ways. If I have a tech question I ask it and I get an answer, but any forum is going to have its share of zealot types. I was on GameFaqs for ten years before I discovered TPU lol oh boy let me tell you what an upgrade... I have made more friends on OCN though, thats why I favor it I think, not sure.

I highlighted in bold - a moderator seeing a topic that makes said moderator feel this way would just lock the thread and force the community to delve their energy elsewhere... maybe this has measurable repercussions for any community like this?

 

[Mindweaver]

its pretty easy to tackle.. people that troll the crypto section purely because they hate crypto for whatever reason need to be seen as the bad guys.. if they have something usefull to say.. say it by all means but this one liner trolling needs to stop.. trolling is bad dont f-cking do it.. if mods cant handle that maybe they need to change their thinking..

currently the trolls are simply being allowed to continue without censure of any kind.. this is whats wrong..

they dont have to come to this section.. and they certainly should not come just to troll..

the trolls are the bad guys but if i tell one to f-ck off its me that would be censured.. so in that sense the trolls are being protected.. i can handle trolls okay but not when mods are protecting the f-ckers..

rant over..

trog

I haven't seen any reported post over these "trolls". This is not my section, but I do try to help out in sections that are not mine. Plus, you can't just tell members to "f-ck off" without someone reporting you. In the future report them, and not try to take things into your own hands. Remember the first rule of TPU is that there are n.. Wait.. yea no.. there is a major rule, and that is you can't tell people to "f-ck off". Remember "trolls" feed off the tears of mad forum members. Report them don't feed them.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

Well.. When the discussion of something that is tanking the hobby that we're mostly here for, people aren't going to act great. As a matter of fact, I don't see how this discussion helps anything here. It's bickering and garbage.

Thank you...
You use words better than I.... Lol

It's only a matter of time before mining as we know it ends and I seriously hope that when that time comes there is still enough of a customer base left to sustain the market for such things...
I know 4 people personally that have given up and moved in to consoles only and one more waiting for GeForce Now...
I'm literally the only person I know of in real life that is still waiting for this BS to end... I will give till September and if market conditions are the same I'm out to.

 

[trog100]

I haven't seen any reported post over these "trolls". This is not my section, but I do try to help out in sections that are not mine. Plus, you can't just tell members to "f-ck off" without someone reporting you. In the future report them, and not try to take things into your own hands. Remember the first rule of TPU is that there are n.. Wait.. yea no.. there is a major rule, and that is you can't tell people to "f-ck off". Remember "trolls" feed off the tears of mad forum members. Report them don't feed them.

a left over habit from my school days.. i dont snitch or anonymously report anybody.. in fact i think its low life deplorably tool of repression.. he he

i aint angry i am simply making comment.. i also know what trolling is i just dont like them being protected simply because they are forum members..

in fact it not being allowed to call them for what they that niggles me the most..

i still recon my special thread for crypto haters was a good idea.. they could go in there and rant to their hearts content.. closing it was a short sighted move..

trog

 

[Mindweaver]

a left over habit from my school days.. i dont snitch or anonymously report anybody.. in fact i think its low life deplorably tool of repression.. he he

i aint angry i am simply making comment.. i also know what trolling is i just dont like them being protected simply because that are forum members..

in fact it not being allowed to call them for what they that niggles me the most..

trog

Ok, remember the report button is there for you, buddy. Don't feel like it's snitching, but rather a tool to help us keep our forums going in a positive direction.

 

[trog100]

Ok, remember the report button is there for you, buddy. Don't feel like it's snitching, but rather a tool to help us keep our forums going in a positive direction.

thats what all fascist dictatorships say.. only joking but maybe not.. i will remember the control tool is there even if my ethics wont let me use it.. he he

best of luck..

trog

 

[dorsetknob]

i will remember the control tool is there even if my ethics wont let me use it.. he he

Sorry Trogg but if you wont use the Button to help the mods maintain some semblence of Order then you are "part of the Problem"

 

[Captain_Tom]

Nah man , didn't you hear, crypto is definitely the future. Who needs stability.

I imagined you typed this statement with a smug face assuming it makes you look smart, right?

Do you realize your sarcastic remark is actually correct? This market doesn't "need" to be stable yet, and it is the future...

Thank you...
You use words better than I.... Lol

It's only a matter of time before mining as we know it ends and I seriously hope that when that time comes there is still enough of a customer base left to sustain the market for such things...
I know 4 people personally that have given up and moved in to consoles only and one more waiting for GeForce Now...
I'm literally the only person I know of in real life that is still waiting for this BS to end... I will give till September and if market conditions are the same I'm out to.

No offense - but cry me a river. Nvidia has been trying to jack up the prices this high for about 10 years now, and finally they will have the leverage to permanently do so. Mining's affect on prices will lessen over time, but the prices will never be where they used to be in the "PC Renaissance Era of 2010-2016." To be clear I am really not trying to be a jerk, I am just saying that we need to get used to the idea of Gaming Titan's costing $2000, and RX x80 and GTX xx60 gpu's costing $400.

It was never reasonable to expect AMD/Nvidia to sell professional cards for $5000 while their gaming counterparts are $650, and it was only a matter of time before some program monetized the latent processing power in gaming computers.

 

[Vya Domus]

I imagined you typed this statement with a smug face assuming it makes you look smart, right?

More like amused rather than smug.

This market doesn't "need" to be stable yet, and it is the future...

Pretty bold statement and exactly zero arguments to back it up as usual when it comes down to this matter. Not that I really need any to be honest , I don't really care , I'm just here to watch the true shitshow that crypto will inevitably ignite.

 

[Captain_Tom]

More like amused rather than smug.

Pretty bold statement and exactly zero arguments to back it up as usual when it comes down to this matter. Not that I really need any to be honest , I don't really care , I'm just here to watch the true shitshow that crypto will inevitably ignite.

Right back at you buddy - Please enlighten me on the arguments you have to back up your statement.


I am not being facetious, please let me know why you think it's silly to suggest cryptocurrencies could be a large part of the world's future. Because all I am seeing is some guy who thinks Bitcoin is too volatile, even though it is becoming less volatile over time.

 

[Vya Domus]

Please enlighten me on the arguments you have to back up your statement.

That's the thing , I don't need to. I can easily place my distrust in it and not have to argue about it because it is yet to become as widespread , and therefore , as relevant as traditional currency is.

Crypto has been around for almost a decade and that still hasn't changed , if it really was the future we already missed it.

 

[R-T-B]

Crypto has been around for almost a decade and that still hasn't changed , if it really was the future we already missed it.

I have a feeling the first coins took more than 10 years to take off...

 

[rtwjunkie]

thats what all fascist dictatorships say.. only joking but maybe not.. i will remember the control tool is there even if my ethics wont let me use it.. he he

best of luck..

trog

So, basically, you complain mods don't see everything, yet you don't point them in the right direction. They cannot be everywhere at once....remember, they have lives also.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I am not being facetious, please let me know why you think it's silly to suggest cryptocurrencies could be a large part of the world's future.

1) Inefficient.
2) Insecure.
3) Inflexible.
4) Has no intrinsict value and can't be enforcibly tied to anything that does.

There might be something important based on blockchain down the road but everything we see today isn't it.

 

[Vario]

I imagined you typed this statement with a smug face assuming it makes you look smart, right?

Do you realize your sarcastic remark is actually correct? This market doesn't "need" to be stable yet, and it is the future...



No offense - but cry me a river. Nvidia has been trying to jack up the prices this high for about 10 years now, and finally they will have the leverage to permanently do so. Mining's affect on prices will lessen over time, but the prices will never be where they used to be in the "PC Renaissance Era of 2010-2016." To be clear I am really not trying to be a jerk, I am just saying that we need to get used to the idea of Gaming Titan's costing $2000, and RX x80 and GTX xx60 gpu's costing $400.

It was never reasonable to expect AMD/Nvidia to sell professional cards for $5000 while their gaming counterparts are $650, and it was only a matter of time before some program monetized the latent processing power in gaming computers.

If this is the case, the desktop PC game is over.

 

[Captain_Tom]

If this is the case, the desktop PC game is over.

Nah we will swallow it. Everyone said the OG Titan was stupid, and yet Nvidia couldn't even keep it in stock! Even at $1200 it continues to sell (And it will at $1500 - $2000 too).

The 2050 Ti will be stronger than the 1060, and therefore people will swallow paying $200 for it. What's the alternative?


Hopefully Navi will change this, but idk why AMD would sell their product for too much less than they have to.

1) Inefficient.
2) Insecure.
3) Inflexible.
4) Has no intrinsict value and can't be enforcibly tied to anything that does.

Excellent points for why fiat is doomed

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Fiat is...
1) systematically it is inefficient (employs a lot of people because of it) but in terms of transactions it is very efficient. Money is exchanging hands thousands of times a second and there's no perceived slowdown. The system is designed to handle massive load it does so rarely missing a beat.
2) Every dollar is serialized, every bank needs to balance their books on a daily basis, and every transaction can be rescinded if the conditions are right. It's really only insecure in terms of theft in cash form but if you practice due diligence and report which serial numbers were specifically stolen, the fed can potentially use that to catch the thief and return them. Most people don't because they like the freedom and anonymity of cash. Counterfeit currency also has heavy, criminal penalties.
3) The fed creates and removes legal tender supply to keep the currency stable. That kind of responsiveness is impossible with cryptocurrency in its present form.
4) All fiat currencies are tied to their respective economies which include a plethora of assets.


RE: These prices being the new norm. 58% of NVIDIA's profits came from the sell of consumer GPUs. You're forgetting supply vs demand curves: the higher the price, the less demand, even with all these miners in the market. FYI, GTX 1060 only costs like $80 (if not less) for NVIDIA to build. If they get away with those kinds of prices, they're laughing their way to the bank. Then regulators knock on their door for price fixing.

 

[trog100]

ford how is every dollar serialized when most of it is digital and never gets handled or seen by its users... how do you serialize digits on a computer.. i am not sure of the exact figures but i think no more than 25% of so called cash comes come in paper form..

i rarely use cash notes they are a fraction of one percent of what i spend.. in fact i havnt spent any cash money notes or coins for several months.. in some ways its just as "ethereal" as crypto and its also only worth what people think its worth.. as for legal tender.. all it really means is that folks have to accept it if offered.. it dosnt mean anything else..

they dont have to accept plastic which thinking about it means most of us are spending something that isnt legal tender.. he he

as for graphics cards folk used to think one was worth lets say 400 dollars now they think one is worth double that.. and if you really want to buy one they are.. a dollar buys what it buys and for sure what it buys aint fixed in stone..

trog

 

[FordGT90Concept]

ford how is every dollar serialized when most of it is digital and never gets handled or seen by its users... how do you serialize digits on a computer.. i am not sure of the exact figures but i think no more than 25% of so called cash comes come in paper form..

Most digital transactions are handled by the FedACH. The fed itself acts as an intermediary between debtor and creditor. If you use credit or debit cards, the card issuer (Vista, MasterCard, Discovery, American Express, etc.) acts as intermediary. It's always digitized or exchanged for cash at banks/credit unions and they audit daily. If there's any discrepancies, the fed seizes the bank Saturday night cataloging all assets, accounts, and even rekeying the locks.

Remember, banking is a service industry. If something is amiss, you always have someone to talk to. Someone steals your crypto-wallet? Too bad, so sad.

 

[Captain_Tom]

Fiat is...
1) systematically it is inefficient but in terms of transactions it is very efficient. Money is exchanging hands thousands of times a second and there's no perceived slowdown. The system is designed to handle massive load it does so rarely missing a beat.
2) Every dollar is serialized, every bank needs to balance their books on a daily basis, and every transaction can be rescinded if the conditions are right. It's really only in secure in terms of theft in cash form but if you practice due diligence and report which serial numbers were specifically stolen, the fed can potentially use that to catch the thief and return them. Most people don't because they like the freedom and anonymity of cash. Counterfeit currency also has heavy, criminal penalties.
3) The fed creates and removes legal tender supply to keep the currency stable. That kind of responsiveness is impossible with cryptocurrency in its present form.
4) All fiat currencies are tied to their respective economies which include a plethora of assets.


RE: These prices being the new norm. NVIDIA took a stock hit because of the volatility. 58% of NVIDIA's profits came from the sell of consumer GPUs. You're forgetting supply vs demand curves: the higher the price, the less demand, even with all these miners in the market. FYI, GTX 1060 only costs like $80 (if not less) for NVIDIA to build. If they get away with those kinds of prices, they're laughing their way to the bank. Then regulators knock on their door for price fixing.

So I will respond to you in two parts, the first being your crypto points:

1) What you are describing is growing pains. Bitcoins recent hike in transaction costs is directly comparible to people complaining about a mall having too little parking space: Business is going TOO well.

What you don't seem to get is that these scaling issues are incredibly solvable. Pascal already does 100 transactions per second (It has a TINY marketcap for how much more efficient it is than Bitcoin), DASH already has a roadmap outlining how it will scale all the way to the point of handling infinite transactions (it's already instant for the volume it currently handles), and Bitcoin itself is preparing a lightning network that will likely be rolled out within a year.

Oh, and those are just the ones I am watching. I am sure there are others that look promising as well. But maybe you agree with this guy:

https://thenextweb.com/shareables/2010/02/27/newsweek-1995-buy-books-newspapers-straight-intenet-uh/

2) Bitcoin is immutable, not anonymous. Did you watch the recent governmental hearing on Cryptocurrencies? One of the people in the discussion (correctly) pointed out that Bitcoin would have allowed the government to crack down on banks' illegal dealings and speculating FAR easier if they had a Bitcoin-like blockchain to monitor. He literally said "We could have avoided the 2008 financial crisis." He is correct.

But if you like anonymity, Monero and DASH are there. If you want the backing of an institution - Credit cards and debit cards can (and some already do) be tethered to a token's blockchain instead of an inefficient and exploitable centralized banking server.

3) How is this a good or ok thing? I thought you didn't like that Bitcoin is "worthless" money. Oh but it's ok for these people to make money out of thin air? Well I disagree lol.

4) False. Period. It's just as "Made up" as any cryptocurrency. The gold standard is dead.


As for GPU prices:

LOL your own argument works against you on this one. They are already making insane profits NOW, on each gpu sold. It's already hilarious! Why stop? People will KEEP buying their s*^t.

It's pretty clear that 70% of the market will only buy Nvidia as long as they have good marketing. Their mindshare is just too powerful. Consider the one time AMD managed to have a larger marketshare than Nvidia (by a measly 5%).... and it was when they had a product that was around 3x better (not a random number). That's not something AMD can do often, and so they have (recently) decided to just offer better price/perf and keep their 30% of the desktop market. Consoles will adopt them anyways.

Now we will probably have to agree to disagree on this, but I CERTAINLY hope you are right. But I don't see why Nvidia wouldn't raise prices when Radeon has basically declared they won't be trying for at least a year.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

1) What you are describing is growing pains. Bitcoins recent hike in transaction costs is directly comparible to people complaining about a mall having too little parking space: Business is going TOO well.

What you don't seem to get is that these scaling issues are incredibly solvable. Pascal already does 100 transactions per second (It has a TINY marketcap for how much more efficient it is than Bitcoin), DASH already has a roadmap outlining how it will scale all the way to the point of handling infinite transactions (it's already instant for the volume it currently handles), and Bitcoin itself is preparing a lightning network that will likely be rolled out within a year.

Oh, and those are just the ones I am watching. I am sure there are others that look promising as well. But maybe you agree with this guy:

https://thenextweb.com/shareables/2010/02/27/newsweek-1995-buy-books-newspapers-straight-intenet-uh/

Uh huh. Try posting a transaction with crypto when there is no internet service. The entire financial system is designed to revert back to paper ledgers if they have to. Transactions occur slower but they still happen. The inefficiencies are fundamentally because of that fact: everything is localized until the transaction is posted. It's redundancy.

2) Bitcoin is immutable, not anonymous. Did you watch the recent governmental hearing on Cryptocurrencies? One of the people in the discussion (correctly) pointed out that Bitcoin would have allowed the government to crack down on banks' illegal dealings and speculating FAR easier if they had a Bitcoin-like blockchain to monitor. He literally said "We could have avoided the 2008 financial crisis." He is correct.

But if you like anonymity, Monero and DASH are there. If you want the backing of an institution - Credit cards and debit cards can (and some already do) be tethered to a token's blockchain instead of an inefficient and exploitable centralized banking server.

Lehman-Bros collapsed because of an internal audit that discovered they owed far more money than they possessed due to a vast number of mortgages being underwater. No currency system can fix that. The problem was and is that regulators saw the problem and decided to look the other way.

Name one exploit for the "centralized banking server." Hint: never happened. Why? Banks exist by the authority of the fed. If they step out of the line, it's game over for them.

3) How is this a good or ok thing? I thought you didn't like that Bitcoin is "worthless" money. Oh but it's ok for these people to make money out of thin air? Well I disagree lol.

Because dollars have this thing called "purchasing power" which is calculated annually by BLS and summarized by the "cost of living" standard. These are things like how much a loaf of bread costs or how much rent costs year over year. A lot of years, it's <1% difference. Sometimes it's 1-2%. The reason for this is the fed stabilizing the currency. When the economy is strong, more money is pumped into the economy to stop the cost of living rising (every dollar is made to be worth about the same). When the economy is weak, it removes money so that $700 paycheck you got doesn't go completely towards a single loaf of bread. You can't buy dollars and sit on them hoping to make a lot of money because the dollar is stabilized by the fed. It's why it is a fiat currency and not a commodity like cryptocurrency.

4) False. Period. It's just as "Made up" as any cryptocurrency. The gold standard is dead.

See the response to #3 above. The federal reserve system has proven to be more stable than the gold standard (which is why all countries use fiat now). Gold standard is hardly better than cryptocurrency except the part where gold is a physical commodity that is tradable under virtually all circumstances. Not so much for crypto because, you know, gold has intrinsic value.

 

[xkm1948]

So has it crashed or not?

 

[moproblems99]

So has it crashed or not?

I mean it is pretty easy to go look at numbers and pricing....

EDIT: Sorry, forgot some links.

https://coinranking.com/

https://www.newegg.com/Desktop-Graphics-Cards/SubCategory/ID-48?Tid=7709