Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs

[Retrorockit]

Yes, but not on my mainboard Thats the problem. Otherwise the x5650 would be enough.

That was general information to help others who may want to try this. They are socket 1156 CPUs. When I first posted that I wasn't aware the i5 655K was 2 core so I added that info as a clarification.
The importance of them is they're under the 95W limit many locked BIOS OEM motherboards have.

 

[Retrorockit]

I just did another Throttlestop overclock. As usual for me it was a Dell BTX. XPS 420 went 4GHz easily witha QX9650. 12X333fsb with a tweak from SetFSB to 4067MHz.
That was with stock cooling. I'm going to do some cooling mods and see what it can really do.
FWIW the XPS430 is an X48 chipset version which supports DDR3 RAM.

 

[unclewebb]

So i bought a T3500 and a Xeon

I also bought a Dell T3500 to play with and I had enough money left over to buy a handful of CPUs for testing purposes. The bios in these workstations are completely locked down. Nothing useful in there for overclocking purposes. I first tried a Xeon X5650. These have a locked multiplier so the next processor I tried was a W3670. Same thing. Locked multiplier so no overclocking. Next up was a W3680. These have an unlocked multiplier and are almost identical to the Core i7-980X Extreme CPUs.

https://ark.intel.com/products/4791...12M-Cache-3_33-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI?q=w3680
https://ark.intel.com/products/4793...Edition-12M-Cache-3_33-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

Both have the unlocked multiplier and unlocked turbo power limits. The only difference is the W3680 can be found much cheaper on EBay. I paid $55 U.S.

The other two unlocked CPUs are the W3690 and the Core i7-990X.

https://ark.intel.com/products/5258...r-W3690-12M-Cache-3_46-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI
https://ark.intel.com/products/5258...Edition-12M-Cache-3_46-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

Same thing. Unlocked multiplier and unlocked TDP / TDC turbo power limits. Both are necessary to obtain maximum performance on a T3500. Is there any difference between these 4 CPUs when overclocking? There shouldn't be. Nothing significant anyhow. They all use the same 133 MHz BCLK speed so after you adjust the multiplier, there will not be any difference. There is no ability to control the CPU voltage on this board so they are all going to overclock approximately the same amount. The Xeon W CPUs might actually be a hair faster because they support faster memory.

I used ThrottleStop and bumped the multipliers up to 31 across the board so it runs at 4133 MHz regardless of how many cores are active.

I also used ThrottleStop to bump the TDP turbo power limit up from the 130 Watt default value to 180 Watts. This allows the CPU to maintain maximum speed even when fully loaded.

On this board the X5650 is handicapped because it only has a 90 Watt TDP limit and it is also locked so it cannot be adjusted in Windows.

The final result is a very competitive CPU without having to spend too much cash.

The heatsink is a fan less design on the T3500 but other than that, it is very well designed.

To significantly increase cooling performance, all I did was I used some plastic cable ties and strapped an old case fan to the side of it. Big difference. The screenshot above shows some great temps when fully loaded and the fan is only running quietly at 5 V.

The power supply includes a 6 pin cable which opens up more options for a GPU. You need to remove half of the hard drive plate to make room for a full size GPU but this is a 30 second mod with a Phillips screwdriver.

Great little bang for the buck system. I found my T-3500 for $80 U.S. locally.

 

[Retrorockit]

Thanks for taking the time to do that and post here.
The heatsink on the T3500 isn't actually fanless. The case fan air flow, when all the RAM ducts and HDD tray are in place is actually ducted through the the CPU cooler. The problem with the OEM fans isn't that they can't move enough air, it's that they wait until the temperature is too high before they speed up. But the bolt pattern of the CPU cooler is standard aftermarket so bigger coolers are plentiful. Larger coolers will require the removal of the HDD tray, but the 2x FDD bays leave plenty of room for modern 2.5" SSDs. One thing that isn't mentioned is dual GPU support for SLI. Aftermarket PSUs fit, and there was an optional 525W PSU with power for 2x GPUs. Also the 3 channel RAM helps this perform beyond what DDR3 1333 would normally be expected to provide.
If you could run that at userbenchmark.com it would provide a side by side ranking against other T3500s, and also other computers in general. There is one there @ 4GHz scoring 118% ranking in gaming. It was done using Intels Extreme Tuning Utility I think.
For the more agressive overclockers, heatsinks on the VRM MOSFETs, bigger cooler setup, and massive GPU/PSU upgrades should provide even more performance gains.
But 6 cores/12 threads and 4+GHz performance for under $150 is hard to beat.

 

[Retrorockit]

Just found out about another unlocked LGA1366 (X58) Xeon. W3570 which is a 3.2GHz 45nm 4 core with Hyper threading. These can be had for $15.
http://www.overclock.net/forum/5-intel-cpus/1386102-so-xeon-w3570-s-had-unlocked-multi-s.html
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-W3680-vs-Intel-Xeon-W3570
A little further research has uncovered the W3580 which is equal to the i7-975 and is unlocked.
And here's where this gets really interesting (for some of the oddballs among us) the W5580/W5590 is rated for dual CPU configurations, and is rumoured to be unlocked also. Unconfirmed so far.
This is probably due to no 2 CPU workstation motherboards having the multiplier option in the BIOS.
I finally found a confirmation of this. W5580 running solo @ 42x133=5.6GHz
http://valid.x86.fr/81teia

 

[dorsetknob]

And here's where this gets really interesting (for some of the oddballs among us) the W5580/W5590 is rated for dual CPU configurations, and is rumoured to be unlocked also. Unconfirmed so far.

Most of the W series Xeon have 1 QPI link for Single Socket Use and yes the two you linked to have 2 QPI links So in Theory Should work in A Duel socket Board
Not having or had either of those CPU's or any Duel 1366 socket boards i suspect that in order for such a Board to boot with them it might need a Bios microcode mod/injection to recognize and work with duel W Series Xeon's
would be interesting Project with appropriate hardware

 

[Retrorockit]

If you click on the chart at the CPUZ link you will see some of them running dual CPUs in the list there. So dual CPU isn't a problem. I haven't tried Throttlestop on dual CPUs yet. I ordered some QX9775 LGA771 Extremes but they're not here yet. I don't know if it will control 2 CPUs at once, or if I'll need to run 2 instances of TS.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The heatsink is a fan less design on the T3500 but other than that, it is very well designed.

To significantly increase cooling performance, all I did was I used some plastic cable ties and strapped an old case fan to the side of it. Big difference. The screenshot above shows some great temps when fully loaded and the fan is only running quietly at 5 V.

This is what I did on the one I have. 90mm fan but I left it one 12v. I barely hear it.

The power supply includes a 6 pin cable which opens up more options for a GPU. You need to remove half of the hard drive plate to make room for a full size GPU but this is a 30 second mod with a Phillips screwdriver.

I didn't have to do that. The card I have leaves for enough clearance that the cable fit. It a bit tight but it works.

Great little bang for the buck system. I found my T-3500 for $80 U.S. locally.

I paid $125 for mine but it was fully equipped with gpu, ram, hdd and Dell OS recovery discs. But but heck yes, damn good bang for buck.

I also used ThrottleStop to bump the TDP turbo power limit up from the 130 Watt default value to 180 Watts. This allows the CPU to maintain maximum speed even when fully loaded.

I'm wanting to try this but have a concern. Will this hurt the VRM's? Even with an installed heatsink it's a bit worrying.

 

[Retrorockit]

VRMs run pretty hot anyway. IMO one of the good things about Dell is they find it cheaper to overbuild the VRM and then leave the heatsinks off. Then I get to put them on and reap the benefits.
The polymer caps, and VRM MOSFETS are pretty rugged parts. I haven't had them fail, they just seem to just work better with heatsinks on them. I've overclocked without heatsinks and they didn't fail they just ran out of Voltage for further overclocking. I've run as much as 1.5875V. through my QX6800 and didn't have VRM problems.
There is a bigger heatsink for the T7500 #U402F. It's taller. If you're not using the HDD tray it should fit.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Preci...m=382376829276&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598

 

[unclewebb]

I got lucky and found an old computer for sale about 2.5 km from home. It came with an EVGA Classified 3 motherboard, Core i7-920, a Corsair Hydro H100 liquid cooler, a Corsair power supply, 4 GB Corsair memory, a hard drive and an old Nvida GPU. At only $160 U.S., I couldn't resist.

https://www.evga.com/articles/00581/

I figured a full featured board would allow me to get the most out of a W3670. With its locked multiplier, I needed an X58 board that would be happy at a high BCLK.

My first ever suicide run at just over 5 GHz. Mission accomplished! After that I backed it down to 4.6 GHz for a more realistic overclock.

It is fun to play with and for benching it is faster than the W3680 in the Dell T-3500 board but in some ways, I like the Dell workstation better. The Dell took about 2 seconds to overclock, it is quieter and stand by mode actually works. The EVGA Classified board is an overclocking champ but it seems like it could have used another bios update or two before reaching the end of its life. It gets a little finicky when pushing it to the limit.

The lesson here is if you are on a budget, the Xeon W series still offers good performance for not much cash. Anything X58 related is over priced on EBay so it is best to look around locally. You might be surprised by what you find at a good price.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Think I'm missing something. Can't find TS 8.60 and the TS 8.50 that's here on TPU does not seem to want to do the BCLK OC thing. Is there a download somewhere that's not in the download section? And is there possibly a guide?

 

[dorsetknob]

The lesson here is if you are on a budget, the Xeon W series still offers good performance for not much cash. Anything X58 related is over priced on EBay so it is best to look around locally. You might be surprised by what you find at a good price.

great find and at a fantastic price and

My first ever suicide run at just over 5 GHz. Mission accomplished! After that I backed it down to 4.6 GHz for a more realistic overclock.

You now understand why so many people here still run X58 and sing their praise
welcome to the CHOIR

 

[Retrorockit]

This is what I did on the one I have. 90mm fan but I left it one 12v. I barely hear it.

I didn't have to do that. The card I have leaves for enough clearance that the cable fit. It a bit tight but it works.

I paid $125 for mine but it was fully equipped with gpu, ram, hdd and Dell OS recovery discs. But but heck yes, damn good bang for buck.


I'm wanting to try this but have a concern. Will this hurt the VRM's? Even with an installed heatsink it's a bit worrying.

Think I'm missing something. Can't find TS 8.60 and the TS 8.50 that's here on TPU does not seem to want to do the BCLK OC thing. Is there a download somewhere that's not in the download section? And is there possibly a guide?

I don't see your CPU listed. For TS overclock to work you need one of the unlocked CPUs. The best are the W3680/W3690 32nm 6 cores, or i7-980X, i7-990X . The Xeons support faster memory.
There are also some 45nm 4 cores with 3 channel memory support and Hyperthreading. Basically upgraded Core2Extremes. Very cheap though $15-$20. W3570,W3580,W5580,W5590. I'm sure there are i series equivalents to these except for the 2x CPU versions (W55xx).
This thread is actually my attempt to create a guide for this. There are very few people aware of this method. Even fewer who actually try it. But for locked BIOS computers it's the only game in town, and can produce some good budget gaming rigs. I think if you read the whole thread you'll find what you need somewhere. It's a work in progress and we need results both good and bad here to help each other.

While researching the unlocked 2-CPU Xeons I came across some useful info. that's not always listed for the other CPUs. TDP is listed as 130W which is normal for these, but Maximum Power Disipation is also listed. This has more to do with the ability of the heatspreader to support overclocking and often isn't listed. 185W sustained, and 231 W peak. I would expect other LGA1136 CPUs to be similar.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon W5580 - AT80602000756AD (BX80602W5580).html
Here is a multiplier over clock on the W5580 at CPUZ. It's at the top of the chart there. 5.6GHz. Probably not on air for a 45nm. But the BCLK method can be quite potent also.
http://valid.x86.fr/81teia
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0202020202020573535383020204020332e323047487a

 

[lexluthermiester]

@Retrorockit
I have several X5600 series Xeons. Was reading in one of the other posts that this can be done on a Dell system, which I have a few of. Does the multi need to be unlocked or was a BCLK a thing? I read in an earlier post that someone(you?) OC'd a Dell system with S771 Xeons. I'm no stranger to OC'ing, but this concept is a new one as Dells are well known for lack of OC features and I'd like to try it out, if possible.

 

[jboydgolfer]

Would be great if this worked for locked CPUs, on unlocked mobo. More than the small bus changes that can be made in bios. A big diiference one little "k" makes , huh?

 

[Retrorockit]

AFIK the X5600s are not unlocked. The unlocked Xeons seem to be all in the W series. The BCLK method is just a new name for the FSB method to overclock locked CPUs on unlocked motherboards. This has been the standard method of overclocking due to the prohibitive cost of unlocked CPUs. There are hundreds of forums, and unlimited posts regarding this technique.

OEMs used modified BIOS without overclocking controls, and also CPU wattage limits to keep unlocked CPUs out of office computers. Sometimes they even seem to be blacklisted. Due to warranty and tech. support concerns it's quite justified. Also office computers are a cost sensitive market and they don't have the motherboard power to support much of an overclock anyway with a few exceptions. There have been a few low powered unlocked CPUs that can run in these. But AFIK no ones tried TS overclocking yet. The low powered unlocked CPUs should be kept in mind because they may actually overclock higher due to offering more thermal head room.

Throttlestop was developed for underclocking , undervolting, and removing thermal throttling on laptops. Sometimes to increase performance, but also to extend battery life. There are several large forums dedicated to this activity. Some of them over 1000 pages long. Hidden in them are reports of unlocked CPU overclocking, mostly on laptops. I created this Desktop Overclocking thread so others wouldn't have to wade through thousands of laptop posts to find this information. But realistically it's so little known or practiced that you are very likely to be the first one to try it on any particular combination of MB, or CPU that you try. Props to the laptop overclockers out there. They have it much harder than desktop overclockers, and they dig really deep into their systems to get their results. We're talking board level hardmods, and chipset and memory controller editing. The difference between TS and other overclocking software is it's ability to raise Volatge on unlocked CPUs. SetFSB, Clockgen, etc. can raise FSB, but without control of Voltage results are seriously limited.

For this to work you must have an unlocked CPU. Core2Extremes that were $1000 are now availablefor <$80. Locked BIOS computers in the LGA775 can be had for almost nothing, and X58 systems for not much more. The other thing that's required is a motherboard that can run an unlocked CPU. http://www.userbenchmark.com/?redirFrom=userbenchmark.com& is very useful for finding these. You can see at a glance hundreds, often thousands, of examples of just about any system. It very common to see unlocked CPUs running there on locked motherboards but no overclocks posted. The few systems that have been overclocked are easy to see because the CPU score will be way beyond those of the base clocked CPUs. The Dell T3400 is a good example. The QX9650 score 41% at base speed, but jumps up to 57% with a 4.15GHz TS overclock. Overclocked T3500s are posting scores over 100% compared to their target "modern gaming system". Thermal mods used in traditional overclocking definitely still apply here. Heatsinking The VRMs, big CPU coolers, fan and airflow mods, lapped CPUs all still apply.

The best candidates for this seem to be the workstations, or high end gaming computers, old WS being common and therefore cheap, but the gamers might be found with decent GPUs. Dual GPU support is a huge bonus. Next would be multimedia systems, and for those in dire financial straits the office computers that can run unlocked CPUs (towers much preffered due to PSU, and GPU sizes).

Other things to watch for at userbench are missing CPUs that one would expect. This can indicate a lack of chipset or BIOS support ( many Q9550, but no Q9650 for example). Sometimes only early CPU steppings are supported. Look for Xeons running, or not. With Dells you will notice an almost total lack of AMD GPUs newer than R7 series. There is a known (among Dell users) BIOS issue with AMD GPUs from GCN3 on up. This was resolved on newer Dells. But for the systems being considered here it's typical. You might see a couple running ( I've done it) but the BIOS settings will not be available at all.

 

[John Naylor]

Throttlestop was designed for underclocking, and undevolting laptop computers to extend battery life.

Apple phones have a similar built in feature and the public went nutz . The wise thing for Apple to have done was to include access to the settings and now with the "fix" out, I wander how many have opted to change to "to be able to play cat videos at work at full perforamce setting" from the "I don'tt want my phone to die on the way home from work in the snowstorm" setting.

Thottlestop and BatteryCare utilities or equivalents should be standard fare on all battery operated devices.

 

[natr0n]

Actually the X5600s are indeed unlocked with the right board/software.

 

[Retrorockit]

I'm referring to multiplier unlocked. If you know of any multiplier unlocked X series Xeons please feel free to share. Examples from CPUZ showing a raised multiplier are always welcome.
One of the reasons few people try this is lack of knowledge about which CPUs are multiplier unlocked. I give part numbers, or links to results.
Cryptic comments suggesting secret knowledge don't really further the purpose of this thread. Which is to let people know that they can take advantage of the millions of locked BIOS computers out there,and easily, and inexpensively overclock them. And provide them with the information to do so.
So let's see what you've got?

 

[Retrorockit]

I sent someone here from another forum, and they got the impression that TS only worked on Core, and 1st Gen. CPus. I know this isn't rue so I downloaded TS 8.50 but couldn't find any release notes, or readme files to show what CPUs are currently supported. TS 8.50 supports Sky Lake, and Kaby Lake CPUs.
Here's the Throttlestop Primer.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/ThrottleStop-Primer.213140.0.html
Just be aware that TS is primarily intended for laptop use, so you may have to infer some things about using it with unlocked CPUs in a desktop environment. This means it's up to you to provide sufficient power and cooling for the settings you want to attempt.
Since TS operates from inside the OS it's a good idea to have another boot option (Linux DVD) available so you can remove TS if you save an unstable setting. This is equivalent to a CMOS reset in traditional overclocking. It can be reinstalled easily.

 

[unclewebb]

ThrottleStop works on the majority of Intel CPUs released during the last decade. From unlocking Core 2 Extremes to Coffee Lake and everything in between. Mr. Fox on NBR has always been a big fan of ThrottleStop.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-684#post-10626057

ThrottleStop automatically adjusts what features are available based on what CPU family it detects.

The safest way to use ThrottleStop is do not add it to your Windows start up sequence until you are confident that your settings are stable. Do plenty of stability testing before adding it to Windows using the Task Scheduler.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/#post-6865107

If you ever do accidentally save some unstable settings and get stuck in a boot loop, just boot up into safe mode, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and you will be OK after that.

To get a 5 GHz screenshot out of my W3670, I booted up in Windows at 4800 MHz and then I used ThrottleStop to enable Intel Turbo Boost which got me the 25 multiplier for a quick screenshot. After that, I clicked on Disable Turbo and I was instantly back to a much more stable 4800 MHz. This gave me lots of time to paste, edit and save my screenshot without having to worry about a crash.

The X5650 I tested is multiplier locked. On the right board you can adjust the BCLK but not the multiplier. I think the multiplier unlocked W3680 is the best bang for the buck. The multiplier locked W3670 is just as good as long as you have an X58 board that lets you adjust both the voltage and BCLK.

For memory I am using 12GB of triple channel DDR3 1600 MHz Corsair Vengeance. Very stable memory as long as you do not try to push it beyond that speed.

http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeance-12gb-triple-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmz12gx3m3a1600c9

 

[m&m's]

Sorry to hijack the thread but I just bought myself a T3500 and I have some questions.
It has a W3550 and 12GB of RAM. I paid $128 CAD which is like ~100 USD. I think it was good deal considering current RAM prices. I did not receive it yet, but I'm already looking at W3680 CPUs and people on eBay are all asking $100 CAD ~80 USD.

Was ~100 USD a good deal for a T3500 with 12GB?
Is ~80 USD too much for a W3680?
Are the VRMs good enough for a mild overclock (with a W3680 ~4GHz)?

 

[jboydgolfer]

I'm not familiar with that particular chip, but I'm guessing it's Xeon. Today I just happened to be looking on Amazon at the used enterprize computers. They had the x5650 which Was $220 iirc. 12gb ram, and some enterprise gpu.

Edit
So it's a 4 core 8 thread Xeon. As long as the computer functions I'm sure it was a good deal at that price but whether or not it's a good deal to you is what matters.

 

[Retrorockit]

The reason the W3680 is pricey is it's a 32nm 6 core 12 thread unlocked multiplier CPU. It's an i7-980X with better RAM speed. if your not going to overclock then the locked X5680/5690 would be cheaper. When overclocked the unlocked 6 core CPUs can provide comparable performance to many current CPUs. So yes they're worth it.
If money is the primary concern there are some unlocked 45nm 4 core 8 thread CPUs that trade for under $20US. W3570/3580, and W5580/5590. The 3 channel memory and DDR3-1333 support means they can still be relevant also. This will get you in the OC game for not much risk.
You paid the right price for a bacic T3500. I paid twice that for one with a W3690 and 12GB.
BTW your not hijacking the thread. This is what it was created for. I just hope you'll reciprocate by posting your results here, and at Userbenchmark.com to further the project.
Look around in here to see what T3500 are doing.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-WorkStation-T3500--/2522
You have to click on individual setups to see the overclocks, and there won't be many. But you will see how much performance each CPU will produce. ASFAIK the 4 cores haven't been done in a T3500 yet.

 

[unclewebb]

I'm already looking at W3680 CPUs and people on eBay are all asking $100 CAD ~80 USD.

I found my W3680 recently on EBay for $55 US. It was from a Canadian seller so the price was a little lower than the typical EBay price. If you can, shop locally. You tend to find much better deals close to home.

The VRMs should be just fine at 4 GHz. The T3500 bios does not allow voltage adjustment so my W3680 tops out at 4000 MHz when running Prime95 and 4133 MHz seems OK for most everything else. If all you want is 6 cores then the X5650 is a good deal at $29 U.S.+ shipping but I think you should consider getting a 6 core W3680. The unlocked W can run 50% faster. Put a decent GPU in and you will be surprised at the performance.