NVIDIA's New GPP Program Reportedly Engages in Monopolistic Practices

[sith'ari]

nVidia outsells AMD's cards: we know this. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 70% of all GPUs sold to gamers from vendors that sell both brands are nVidia GPUs:

- do you honestly think GPU vendors are willing to let go of a 70% share? They don't care as much about the benefits as they do about that share
- don't forget that nVidia cards are pricier, which only inflates that 70% share that much more

nVidia knows these vendors have allot to lose if nVidia pulls the plug on GPUs entirely (look @ XFX) so they are strong-arming them to "voluntarily" participate. Even if they didn't cut off vendor X completely due to not participating in GPP, they could severely limit the GPU allocation to that vendor, thus putting it @ a disadvantage VS other vendors.

@FordGT90Concept : agree completely!

Guys , this is getting tiresome, since i've read all these at [H] and here as well, so i'll make this final post and i won't post again on the GPP thread.
1) Do they, or don't they , the AIBs receive many privileges & and money(*in all kind of forms) from nVidia?
If YES, does or doesn't nVidia has the right to ask something in return for what they give to AIBs? Must nVidia give these privileges to AIBs for ....free ????
2) Also , i asked something at [H] and here as well , -(#176)-, but still noone gave me an answer:

Doesn't a company -(NVidia in this case)- has the right, to use any legal means in order for her products to be distinguished compared to the competition?
Why both GPUs, GeForce & Radeon must have the exact same brand-name, whether this brand is called ROG or Aorus, or whatever ? !! Is this a free market or not? Why must NVidia has to tolerate their products to be sold under the same brand-name as their rivals ?
NVidia can also complain that this kind of current policy is damaging their own interests and advertisement, just like AMD complains for the opposite !!

We have as a given that right now nVidia is 1 generation ahead from the competition, since AMD in order to keep up with performance, their cards need to consume almost double power . With this in mind, what would you do if you were at nVidia's place? would you like your superior products being sold under the same brand name with your rivals (*especially now that you have a total advantage ) ?
Isn't this tactic completely logical from nVidia's point of view ?
Personally, I know for sure that i would want the exact same thing !! to differentiate my -superior- products from those of my competitors!!

 

[bug]

Yeah, this is getting way too ridiculous. It all went from "GPP will limit choice" to "ZOMG products with different video cards will be branded differently".
Not to mention people freaking out over crap like that are actually saying "if AMD has to stand on its own, fewer people will buy from them".

You don't like Nvidia, fine. Criticize away (I think I've made it clear I have my share of beef with them). But "criticism" in this thread has become such a cacophony that it started saying things like I've summarized above.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

1) Do they, or don't they , the AIBs receive many privileges & and money(*in all kind of forms) from nVidia?

Yes, engineering resources, marketing support, etc.

If YES, does or doesn't nVidia has the right to ask something in return for what they give to AIBs?

They do, like money for the GPUs they're selling and license to use NVIDIA trademarks to sell their product ("GeForce," "NVIDIA," etc.).

Must nVidia give these privileges to AIBs for ....free ????

It's not free. If the AIB doesn't know how to integrate NVIDIAs chips into their own boards, costs will skyrocket for producing cards because they have to reverse engineer NVIDIA reference cards.

With this in mind, what would you do if you were at nVidia's place?

Ilegal per se. Market position doesn't matter as group boycott is inherently illegal.

would you like your superior products being sold under the same brand name with your rivals (*especially now that you have a total advantage ) ?

None of my business unless they drag my trademarks through the mud (e.g. "GeForce" and "NVIDIA). I have no claim over an AIB's own trademarks and branding (e.g. "Aorus", "Strix"). Kind of like how no members of the computer industry has ownership over Dell brands like OptiPlex, Precision, and Alienware.

Isn't this tactic completely logical from nVidia's point of view ?

Logical doesn't imply legal. Case in point: it's logical for competitors to buy out each other to reduce competition but that's anti-competitive which is counter to a free market that governments (should) strive to protect.

 

[BiggieShady]

Tangentially, in the smartphone market, can Qualcomm ask Samsung to have device with their SoC sold under different name than variants with Exynos?
Maybe they can't because Exynos belongs to the smart phone maker itself?
Here we have 3 mutually "independent" parties, nvdia, amd and board maker ... seems like market share bias brought this one up, aib brand becomes defined by one gpu maker much more than the other.

 

[kruk]

Well, I certainly hope that brand split won't mean:
a) worse build quality for AMD cards
b) increases in prices for the nVidia cards

If any of that happens in the future, I hope supporters of GPP will have enough dignity to admit they were wrong ...

For me, GPP means nothing but trouble for consumers, but I will happily publicly admit I was wrong, if the situation won't get worse ...

 

[BiggieShady]

a) worse build quality for AMD cards

It should be same opportunity for AIBs to cut back on components quality as before ... under the same aib brand amd and nvidia gpus share only heatsink/shroud design and fans

b) increases in prices for the nVidia cards

Separation could give more opportunity to drive prices for either of gpu makers, AIBs will differentiate perception of quality (and real component quality) to justify price increase (or drop) to earn where product sells or to drive sales where it sells below expectation. They only have less incentive to do much for amd's small gpu market share.
So again, same as before, for aib brand recognition only shroud and fans need to look the same ... everything can be pricey/cheap and high/low quality as wanted, and still look the same ...
To summarize, it seems as if nvidia wanted to protect themselves from AIB's imminent messing with the cards that use gpu with small market share

 

[Xzibit]

Kyle from HardOCP confirmed the recent move by Asus

There will no longer be any AMD GPUs featured under the entire ROG branding. Confirmed.
AMD motherboards will still be under ROG banner. Confirmed.
If it was cheap, easy, and good for sales, why wouldn't ASUS move AMD mobos to Arez as well?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Because AMD isn't dictating, NVIDIA is, and their extent of caring is graphics cards. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if NVIDIA demands ROG is theirs and theirs alone in a month or two so it will vanish off of boards too.

 

[BiggieShady]

AMD isn't dictating ... NVIDIA demands ...

IMO Nvidia is in position to make demands with graphics cards (and only due to market share) but not with ROG motherboards, while AMD can make similar demand for mobo brand names if it were for their benefit

 

[FordGT90Concept]

IMO Nvidia is in position to make demands with graphics cards (and only due to market share) but not with ROG motherboards, while AMD can make similar demand for mobo brand names if it were for their benefit

ROG is Asus's brand, period. If NVIDIA wants it lawfully, they have to buy out Asus. To comply with said demand is to make them complicit in the group boycott NVIDIA is orchestrating. AIBs should have class-action sued instead of bending over backwards for NVIDIA.

 

[BiggieShady]

ROG is Asus's brand, period. If NVIDIA wants it lawfully, they have to buy out Asus. To comply with said demand is to make them complicit in the group boycott NVIDIA is orchestrating. AIBs should have class-action sued instead of bending over backwards for NVIDIA.

I don't know about lawfulness, but a demand is often presented as a deal that would not be prudent to refuse ... just sayin', gotta take corporate practices at face value. Also, when I said how nvidia is in position to demand this, I didn't mean rightful position, rather position of great leverage.

 

[Xzibit]

Kyle put up a quick follow-up

HardOCP - Dell and HP Resist the NVIDIA GPP Leash - So Far

We also now can share that NVIDIA has specified that it will not extend discounts to non-GPP partners. And what is appalling, but not surprising, is that NVIDIA is denying "priority allocation" to non-GPP partners as well. That basically means your GPU order must have gotten lost in the mail.

Not that Nvidia is willing to share or talk about it but it would be interesting to see if the old "non-GPP" agreement was even an option or if it was just replaced with GPP.

 

[bug]

Kyle put up a quick follow-up

HardOCP - Dell and HP Resist the NVIDIA GPP Leash - So Far



Not that Nvidia is willing to share or talk about it but it would be interesting to see if the old "non-GPP" agreement was even an option or if it was just replaced with GPP.

You read that piece and didn't get a wtf moment?
I mean, not only neither Dell nor HP have a gaming brand to surrender to GPP, but I don't recall either of them updating their models whenever Nvidia (or AMD for that matter) felt like launching something (i.e. they never cared about having products ready on launch date). So, from what we know, these manufacturers only loose Nvidia's marketing money and engineering expertise by not joining. Maybe they weren't even eligible for the program?

 

[Xzibit]

You read that piece and didn't get a wtf moment?
I mean, not only neither Dell nor HP have a gaming brand to surrender to GPP, but I don't recall either of them updating their models whenever Nvidia (or AMD for that matter) felt like launching something (i.e. they never cared about having products ready on launch date). So, from what we know, these manufacturers only loose Nvidia's marketing money and engineering expertise by not joining. Maybe they weren't even eligible for the program?

Maybe your not familiar with the companies

HP Omen
Dell Alienware

 

[bug]

Maybe your not familiar with the companies

HP Omen
Dell Alienware

Those are not video card brands. Afaik, GPP is about video card brands only, so let's stick to that.

 

[Xzibit]

Those are not video card brands. Afaik, GPP is about video card brands only, so let's stick to that.

You serious

Asus ROG isnt a video card brand either.

Now you want to take the OEMs out of the GPP discussion because its inconvenient

 

[bug]

You serious

Asus ROG isnt a video card brand either.

Now you want to take the OEMs out of the GPP discussion because its inconvinient

I don't want to take anything out. I was just asking whether you used any critical thinking between reading that news on HardOCP and reposted it here. I got my answer, so I'm going to stop now.

 

[Super XP]

Remember, in the end Price / Performance wins in the GPU arena.
Overall GPU Market share.
Q4 2017 (Including iGPU & dGPU)

• AMD @ 14.2% (versus 13.0% Last Quarter)
• NVIDIA @ 18.4% (versus 19.3% Last Quarter)
• Intel @ 67.4% (versus 67.8% Last Quarter)

FTC & EU Commission Zero in on NVIDIA GPP Calls for Investigation & Complaints
https://wccftech.com/ftc-eu-commission-zero-in-on-nvidia-gpp-calls-for-investigation-complaints/

Those that think Nvidia's scam GPP won't hurt them and hurt those that joined? Think Again. This is but one POLL among several others I am sure.

• Yes, I will boycott NVIDIA and/or its GPP Partners.
  5630 votes 83%
• 
  
• No, I will not boycott NVIDIA or its GPP Partners.
  1121 vote 17%

And why is GPP utter BS? Here's one reason why, and it keeps getting worse and worse. This is regardless who created GPP, because even if AMD pulled this nonsense off, they too should not get away with such scams.

QUOTE:
As some of the biggest names in the industry, including MSI and Gigabyte, ostensibly began removing AMD products from their gaming brands, giving indication that they may have signed on to the program, the GPP garnered even more opposition.

Calls for a boycott of NVIDIA and its GPP Partners erupted all over the web and some have gone as far as to contact the FTC and EU Commission to call for an investigation of the program. Both the Federal Trade Commission and the European Commission appear to have begun heeding and responding, literally, to those calls.

 

[Xzibit]

HardOCP: NVIDIA Starts Disinformation GPP Campaign

Interesting rumors are now coming out that "Kyle was paid" big bucks for breaking the NVIDIA GPP story. And apparently NVIDIA's disinformation campaign to discredit the story around GPP is rubbing some folks the wrong way. Elric mentions below that "his name is also Brian," so I have to assume that PR at NVIDIA is starting this nastiness. No, I did not get paid for GPP, but I wish I would have. Hell, AMD even gave credit to PCPer for breaking story in its Freedom promo video. Interesting thoughts from Elric below.

Also worth mentioning is that I can tell you for sure that two of the things that NVIDIA told me about GPP are simply lies. Brian Burke of NVIDIA told me this about GPP before we wrote our initial story:

There is no commitment to make any monetary payments, or discounts for being part of the program.

That is a lie. I have it in writing that is not true. NVIDIA is withholding MDF monies as well as rebates and discounts if you don't go GPP. I have had conversations with people that have confirmed exactly what I have in writing.

NVIDIA is quickly painting itself into a corner, and I can say is that the silence from NVIDIA is deafening, and the rest of us know that too. If GPP was so great for the consumer as NVIDIA states, it would have already put hundreds of thousands of dollars into a PR campaign instead of going silent and telling the tech world it has "moved on" from the GPP story. They want this to just die and go away. Telling fellow journalists in the community that I am a paid mouthpiece of AMD is not below NVIDIA, and that is just a shame. And apparently some other folks don't like the way they are handling all of this either.

 

[BiggieShady]

Let's translate 'There is no commitment to make any monetary payments, or discounts for being part of the program.' from legalese ...

... it reads: Yeah we are doing it whenever we deem necessary, but we are not really committed to the practice (because we don't do it all the time)

 

[bug]

Let's translate 'There is no commitment to make any monetary payments, or discounts for being part of the program.' from legalese ...

... it reads: Yeah we are doing it whenever we deem necessary, but we are not really committed to the practice (because we don't do it all the time)

I think what this really means is that Nvidia is not committed to make payments towards manufacturers (their statement), but they can offer discounts (stated in GPP). Refuting a statement that wasn't actually made (that Nvidia will pay the manufacturers) is standard diversion business.

 

[BiggieShady]

standard diversion business

Eh, they obviously feel untouchable ... it'd be nice to see them proved wrong, even if it is proverbial slap on the wrist measured in billions

 

[bug]

Eh, they obviously feel untouchable ... it'd be nice to see them proved wrong, even if it is proverbial slap on the wrist measured in billions

Eh, AMD hasn't been able to touch their high end since I don't remember when. To the point they didn't feel like turning Volta into a consumer product and they don't feel pressured to release the Volta successor either. Wouldn't you feel untouchable in that position?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Irrelevant to the topic. You don't have to be #1 in a market to participate in illegal anti-competitive practices.

 

[BiggieShady]

Wouldn't you feel untouchable in that position?

Nope, but that's just me ... I mean I already said many times how they are in position to do these things, meaning anything gained is worth more to them than any slap on the wrist they may receive ... however I don't think it's right nor good for customer loyalty.
Customer loyalty is affected by both reason and emotion ... and nvidia cleverly waited for it to become less driven by emotion