NVIDIA threatens NGOHQ over ForceWare Distribution

[wickerman]

Speaking as an XP user who owns an 8800GTS, I have had no problems with any of the 8800 drivers, I have had nothing to complain about for any of my games, image quality has been great and performance at 1920x1200 has been exceptional, Ive yet to see any serious problems occur with any system running XP with the 8800 series that hasnt been addressed, or expected.

Now speaking of vista, I do have my complaints with the drivers. But Nvidia is not the only company that is seriously lacking in vista support, I have a system running a 9600 AIW and another running an x1300 AIW. I consistently get graphical corruption on my desktop with the 9600 to the point where the entire screen gets unreadable and I have to move the mouse around the whole screen before I can get a visible desktop, the latest drivers from AMD have seemed to have fixed this issue, but I built the box from day 1 of vista release and it has taken quite a while to be addressed. I should also mention that I still have NO capture or tv tuner support for either of the cards, making the main draw for the cards completely useless. AMD seem to have much better support in Vista for the games, but they are neglecting quite a heavy portion of us, the only saving grace is the fact that most people can go out and buy a supported Hauppauge tuner to use instead. Nvidias support in vista is terrible, I have no problem repeating that...but Vista is Vista, and probably about 60% of the hardware and software out there does not function to its fullest either, so I really dont think vista should be grounds for any argument about software or hardware issues from any company.

As for how I feel about Nvidias actions against NGOHQ, I do see Nvidias side of things. NGOHQ have received requests to remove content in the past, and have chosen not to comply with any of them. When things became elevated because of either (or both...) sides, NGO didnt back down and continued to attack Nvidia. Sure I dont mind seeing modified drivers but when you modify work done by someone else, if they dont like it you should agree to remove it and either rework things or simply avoid trying to piss off the company. Im sure TPU would not like it if someone took their tools, modified them, and then re-released them without any approval from TPU, if the work was done to improve things or not, its still the property of the creator.
Its nice to see sites stand up for their rights, but in this case I think NGOHQ are just doing it to get attention and sympathy. They complain a lot about Nvidia, but does anyone else notice the only video card reviews done by NGOHQ are of Nvidia? 6600GT, 7300GT, 7600GS, 7800GT, and 7800GTX, it seems to me that if Nvidia has a grudge against them NGO would have a reason to heavily criticize Nvidia, yet every review scores a gold award and a 9/10 or 10/10, and a complete lack of reviews for ATI/AMD or even any modern video cards, really makes me wonder why I would want to use their modified drivers when the site itself doesnt prove any advantage to using them.


It seems to me that all NGOHQ wants to do is cause trouble so they can get some attention. Their articles are poorly written, behind the times, and their best work is to be considered mediocre at best in comparison to the amount of effort put forth by other, more serious contributers to the hardware community. Their 5 minutes of fame will soon fade and their website will continue to be ranked just slightly above the occasional rantings of the cynical hardware blogger.

I'll support a website that is being oppressed by "The Man", but this is just BS and I dont see how Nvidia or anyone else could take these guys seriously.

 

[Wile E]

I had the 9700pro-9800pro-9800xt-X1950XT cards and the X2900...With the exception of the X2900 which has a HDMI the rest of the cards couldnt easily be configured to play with TVs. Even the X1950XT couldnt syncronize with my 55' TV so im getting my info from ME.

User error. I have never, and I mean never, had a problem running a TV with any of my ATI cards.

In fact, I think you are thinking of the wrong company, because one of the biggest driver issues that pushed me away from an 8800 is....you guessed it, TV out not working in Vista. That doesn't even mention some of the other missing features, like fan control and the like. There's more than gaming performance to consider for hardware this expensive. If it's supposed to be a feature, I want it to work.

You also keep bringing up game incompatibilities and AA issues on the 2900. Please be more specific.

 

[HellasVagabond]

User Error ?? Ive been in the PC world ever since the 8086 and ive been a tech since 1998 so User error doesnt apply to me my friend. I dont know what kind of TVs you use but im talking about a state of the art 55' inch 1080p TV so the X1950XT shouldnt have a problem producing an 1080p FULLSCREEN signal but it did. On the other hand the 8800 worked flawlessly.

More specific when it comes to AA ? I think every site that has Reviewed the X2900 has encountered AA IQ errors so i cant be more specific

 

[MarcusTaz]

User Error ?? Ive been in the PC world ever since the 8086 and ive been a tech since 1998 so User error doesnt apply to me my friend. I dont know what kind of TVs you use but im talking about a state of the art 55' inch 1080p TV so the X1950XT shouldnt have a problem producing an 1080p FULLSCREEN signal but it did. On the other hand the 8800 worked flawlessly.

More specific when it comes to AA ? I think every site that has Reviewed the X2900 has encountered AA IQ errors so i cant be more specific

and nvnews.net has plenty of Nvidia enthusists...

 

[Wile E]

User Error ?? Ive been in the PC world ever since the 8086 and ive been a tech since 1998 so User error doesnt apply to me my friend. I dont know what kind of TVs you use but im talking about a state of the art 55' inch 1080p TV so the X1950XT shouldnt have a problem producing an 1080p FULLSCREEN signal but it did. On the other hand the 8800 worked flawlessly.

More specific when it comes to AA ? I think every site that has Reviewed the X2900 has encountered AA IQ errors so i cant be more specific

You're the only one I've heard that has problems with a 1080p set, so yes, user error. The fact that you are a tech, and have been doing this since the 8086 days doesn't mean you are exempt from making errors. I only have a 720p Samsung LCD, but one of my good friends has a 37" 1080p Westinghouse LCD, that even my X1800XT handled flawlessly. Haven't had the opportunity to test with the 2900 yet.

As far as the AA issue, I just don't know what everyone is specifically referring to. Just want more info.

 

[HellasVagabond]

Google it and find more info.
And like i said to claim that a guy thats been using PCs for almost 19 years made the same mistake again and again with a Card and with another card he didnt is weird to say the least.
Incompatibility with the TV set ? Perhaps, but even so its still a reason to dislike ATI cards.

 

[Wile E]

Google it and find more info.
And like i said to claim that a guy thats been using PCs for almost 19 years made the same mistake again and again with a Card and with another card he didnt is weird to say the least.
Incompatibility with the TV set ? Perhaps, but even so its still a reason to dislike ATI cards.

As is not having Fan control, or proper TV out support in Vista, for nVidia.

PS: I've been using computers since the 286 days, so I've been around for a while, myself. I still make mistakes, as do you. Nobody's perfect.

 

[DRDNA]

User Error ?? Ive been in the PC world ever since the 8086 and ive been a tech since 1998 so User error doesnt apply to me my friend. I dont know what kind of TVs you use but im talking about a state of the art 55' inch 1080p TV so the X1950XT shouldnt have a problem producing an 1080p FULLSCREEN signal but it did. On the other hand the 8800 worked flawlessly.

More specific when it comes to AA ? I think every site that has Reviewed the X2900 has encountered AA IQ errors so i cant be more specific

No problem with my rig at those settings ...I run 1920x1080 with my 37inch ..works fine with single card config and crossfire config ...no issues at all, right from the start no issues...I also have the ATI pci HDTV card and it runs flawless, absolutely perfect !!! My rig is constant vivo and while watching HDTV and righting the video to disk(part of vivo) my CPU usage is 5%-8% seems like a very well done app...I also have a x1950xtx and master never had a gaming issue ,so I guess I am fortunate as I have never had issues with the 9600xt or the X800XT PE or the X850XT PE or the x1800xtx or x1800xtx(master)I still have them all too and they all have been pushed to the limits and never ever a failed card or inconpatabilties...GUESS I am fortunate or just maybe ATI have something good going on.Thats just my 2cents...I cant speak on Nvidia cuz I have never used them personally , although I do support their hardware and software on a technician level.

 

[HellasVagabond]

Well i on the other hand had countless driver problems with ATI cards..Perhaps you didnt notice them cause most of them were Game-Based. ( Black Waters in Tomb Raider , Awefull Shadows in Homeworld , Broken Graphics in Splinter Cell etc etc etc. )

 

[WarEagleAU]

Honestly didnt have time to read through the huge amount of posts and the length of the posts, but I dont see what the big deal is. Especially if its beneficial to the End user.

 

[MarcusTaz]

Well i on the other hand had countless driver problems with ATI cards..Perhaps you didnt notice them cause most of them were Game-Based. ( Black Waters in Tomb Raider , Awefull Shadows in Homeworld , Broken Graphics in Splinter Cell etc etc etc. )

Dude enough already... PLEEEEEEEASE this is getting sooooooo old and off topic.. go hang out on nvnews.net if you are such a Nvidia fanboy.....

 

[Ketxxx]

So the fact that ATI drivers dont crash in Vista is the decisive factor here ?
That the AA in the X2900 sucks aint ? Various game incompatibilites ( more than nvidia proven through the years ) aint ? The fact that their VIVO software sucks aint ?

Your ignorance is truely blinding. Please dont make me go digging up nvidia vs. ATI drivers to utterly put the fact to rest ATI drivers ARE far better than nvidia drivers, their not perfect by any means, but they are far better. FYI I have owned BOTH ATI and nvidia cards in equal quantities, so I'm well capable to speak from both sides of the line.

 

[Grings]

I still do own both makes of card (8800 and x1800), and yes, ATI's drivers are far better than nvidia's, period.
My ati card dosent do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQUMWqEcao
And its (svideo)t.v. output works properly

 

[mixa]

NVIDIA ..... they are mostly known for their lack of support and driver issues than anything else.Only the client can punish them, which may not be that far.
I hope the guys from NGOHQ will keep the good work up.

 

[spud107]

come to think of it there lack of support affects 2 friends and me, iv got an nforce2 chipset an i havent seen nvidia update those drivers for a while, need mod drivers there,
1 has the nforce2 too, but with onboard geforce, could only get that working properly with a set of modded drivers, couldnt run anything because of corruption with originals,
another has an asrock 939sli32, uli chipset, il say no more lol

 

[HellasVagabond]

The only reason i see for the fact that people support ATI drivers is perhaps that only a handfull of people owned ATI cards prior to the X8XX series and truly witnessed what Bad drivers Ati had back then...Not that it doesnt now but yes they have fixed them in comparison to back then.

@MarcusTaz : WHEN and IF i ever need you to tell me what to do i will ask you, meanwhile i dont think that you or anyone else has the authority to tell me to leave and go to another forum just because im not an ATI fanboy like you and Countless others in here who only know to yell at people that like Nvidia when at the same time they like ATI...Its stupid to say the least.
And just for the record i am a long time member in Nvnews along with many more that have nothing to do with Nvidia including the official Ati forums.

 

[Ketxxx]

Quite the contrary. There are just many folk who are much more open minded and accept ATi drivers ARE better. Catalyst for some years running was awarded industrys most stable software package, surely that must tell you something.

As for ATi drivers in the beginning.. yes they were terrible, ATi were a young upstart company learning the ropes, nvidia were the same at one point in time, ATi only had driver problems way back when Super 7 was one of the greatest socket types, and back then, the real contenders were still 3DFX and nvidia, so your argument is invalid here also.

My first "real" graphics card was a GF2 MX 64MB, it was an awful product. The drivers were so bad it would not even install properly, I even bought another MX from a different manufacturer, same problem. I promptly returned both cards and bought a Hercules 3D Prophet 4500, low and behold, it worked flawlessly and was based on the Kyro2 chipset, it also clocked pretty well too. As for my first Radeon, it was a 9000 64MB, not a special card in the slightest, it did work perfectly though with the drivers that were available at the time.

Now I understand you may want to go on a tangent again so fine fine whatever, but as you go on your tangent you should be aware I, and many other users have owned many cards from both sides, for me these cards would be;

GF2 MX 64MB
3D Prophet 4500 64MB
Radeon 9000 64MB
Radeon 9600Pro
FX5700 Ultra
X800XL
6800GT
X1950Pro

I make that a ratio of 3:4 across a long timeline, both companies having plenty of time to mature and gain experience, ATi drivers have just been superior, period. nVidias drivers could not even play theme hospital, causing all sorts of display oddities, ATI drivers on the other hand, had no problem what so ever, thats just one example of many, many problems I could bring attention to. Another would be, does anyone remember the WHQL nvidia drivers that were released that BROKE SLi? Thats hardly the kind of driver that should be making it past WHQL..

 

[Agility]

Nvidia got hit right back in the face.

 

[Agility]

Speaking as an XP user who owns an 8800GTS, I have had no problems with any of the 8800 drivers, I have had nothing to complain about for any of my games, image quality has been great and performance at 1920x1200 has been exceptional, Ive yet to see any serious problems occur with any system running XP with the 8800 series that hasnt been addressed, or expected.

Now speaking of vista, I do have my complaints with the drivers. But Nvidia is not the only company that is seriously lacking in vista support, I have a system running a 9600 AIW and another running an x1300 AIW. I consistently get graphical corruption on my desktop with the 9600 to the point where the entire screen gets unreadable and I have to move the mouse around the whole screen before I can get a visible desktop, the latest drivers from AMD have seemed to have fixed this issue, but I built the box from day 1 of vista release and it has taken quite a while to be addressed. I should also mention that I still have NO capture or tv tuner support for either of the cards, making the main draw for the cards completely useless. AMD seem to have much better support in Vista for the games, but they are neglecting quite a heavy portion of us, the only saving grace is the fact that most people can go out and buy a supported Hauppauge tuner to use instead. Nvidias support in vista is terrible, I have no problem repeating that...but Vista is Vista, and probably about 60% of the hardware and software out there does not function to its fullest either, so I really dont think vista should be grounds for any argument about software or hardware issues from any company.

As for how I feel about Nvidias actions against NGOHQ, I do see Nvidias side of things. NGOHQ have received requests to remove content in the past, and have chosen not to comply with any of them. When things became elevated because of either (or both...) sides, NGO didnt back down and continued to attack Nvidia. Sure I dont mind seeing modified drivers but when you modify work done by someone else, if they dont like it you should agree to remove it and either rework things or simply avoid trying to piss off the company. Im sure TPU would not like it if someone took their tools, modified them, and then re-released them without any approval from TPU, if the work was done to improve things or not, its still the property of the creator.
Its nice to see sites stand up for their rights, but in this case I think NGOHQ are just doing it to get attention and sympathy. They complain a lot about Nvidia, but does anyone else notice the only video card reviews done by NGOHQ are of Nvidia? 6600GT, 7300GT, 7600GS, 7800GT, and 7800GTX, it seems to me that if Nvidia has a grudge against them NGO would have a reason to heavily criticize Nvidia, yet every review scores a gold award and a 9/10 or 10/10, and a complete lack of reviews for ATI/AMD or even any modern video cards, really makes me wonder why I would want to use their modified drivers when the site itself doesnt prove any advantage to using them.


It seems to me that all NGOHQ wants to do is cause trouble so they can get some attention. Their articles are poorly written, behind the times, and their best work is to be considered mediocre at best in comparison to the amount of effort put forth by other, more serious contributers to the hardware community. Their 5 minutes of fame will soon fade and their website will continue to be ranked just slightly above the occasional rantings of the cynical hardware blogger.

I'll support a website that is being oppressed by "The Man", but this is just BS and I dont see how Nvidia or anyone else could take these guys seriously.

Why don't you compare TNT2 Vs 2900XT?

 

[HellasVagabond]

Agility i find it amusing that you have as your sig something that was directed to me but on the other hand i will kindly request that you remove it...

 

[Agility]

Agility i find it amusing that you have as your sig something that was directed to me but on the other hand i will kindly request that you remove it...

I added it cause it was nice. Not ment it to direct to anyone. Got permission from Wile E too (I think he's the author).

 

[HellasVagabond]

I know but that doesnt mean its right...It was infact directed to me and i just dont like beeing reminded of such a small minded line ( Im not refering to Wille but to the nature of that line ).

 

[Agility]

Well i know how you feel but you can't say it's reminding you of bad events. If bad things reminds you of your past irl then you're gonna scream and yell at it? Lol......no offence.

 

[HellasVagabond]

I did ask kindly

 

[Agility]

Ah my bad about the "yell and scream". Well sorry but i won't change it.