AMD Demonstrates 7nm Radeon Vega Instinct HPC Accelerator

[ppn]

Is it possible to estimate chip size from the slides?

My calculation based on the assumption that the green pcb is the same size on both 14nm and 7nm VEGA is 232-242mm2 or ~1/2 VEGA64~ RX580

 

[Vya Domus]

I always knew Vega was held back greatly by an unfitting manufacturing process.

However, what we get is ANOTHER product nobody really cares for, which is just a shrink of something that wasn't good to begin with.

You , don't care about it. Come on , I'm sure you where these things are targeted at.

It doesn't excel in other areas either relative to the competition's offering.

I am sure you know how this works as well. You can bet this will be at least half or maybe even a third of the price of a V100. It's very much competitive where it needs to, actually. And it's not just performance that matters so does software support , Nvidia for a few years refuses to support anything above OpenCL 1.2 whereas AMD does and for these things that sure as hell matters.

 

[Vayra86]

I always knew Vega was held back greatly by an unfitting manufacturing process.

You , don't care about it. Come on , I'm sure you where these things are targeted at.

I am sure you know how this works as well. You can bet this will be at least half or maybe even a third of the price of a V100. It's very much competitive where it needs to, actually. And it's not just performance that matters so does software support , Nvidia for a few years refuses to support anything above OpenCL 1.2 whereas AMD does and for these things that sure as hell matters.

I have seriously been looking for stories of large volume Vega purchases and I do not - not a few, but simply do NOT - see them anywhere. Regardless of segment.

I'm sure theoretically this is fantastic and possible. And then there's the real world.

 

[enxo218]

with the recent news on amd's efforts in cpu and gpu development I'm slowly turning into a fanboy

 

[Vayra86]

with the recent news on amd's efforts in cpu and gpu development I'm slowly turning into a fanboy

I can get that... on the CPU side and also in APU AMD is doing some fantastic stuff. Dedicated GPU though... the last announcement I had any hope for was Fury X and it being the 'overclocking dream'... look how that turned out. Since then it's only gotten worse.

 

[jabbadap]

I can get that... on the CPU side and also in APU AMD is doing some fantastic stuff. Dedicated GPU though... the last announcement I had any hope for was Fury X and it being the 'overclocking dream'... look how that turned out. Since then it's only gotten worse.

In some cultures nightmares are dreams too... Topic says HPC, so what is the fp64/fp32 ratio?

 

[iO]

Such a shame its going to be too expensive for a gaming card. But 2H18 means the manufacturing runs much better than projected as they talked about a launch sometime in 2019 back at CES.
Which makes Turing in 7nm also more likely..

 

[T4C Fantasy]

Vega 20

Vega 10

 

[jabbadap]

It's tiny for sure. On that PoV it might actually come with gaming variant with 16GB of hbm2. But that size makes me very much doubt it will have full fp64 compute power.

Edit: what is the die size estimation? Quickly counted 14*23 ~ 322 mm²

 

[ppn]

It's tiny for sure. On that PoV it might actually come with gaming variant with 16GB of hbm2...

1,229 GB/s seems a bit of overkill so 16GB 2048 bit is more adequate for desktop users (and keeps the miners away). +50% bandwidth improvement over VEGA10, and 35% overclock to 2.0 Ghz for average of 40% improvement and 1080Ti will be reached at 232mm2.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Yeah and what creates this bandwidth? The speed of the ram.

The bus width.

1,229 GB/s seems a bit of overkill so 16GB 2048 bit is more adequate for desktop users (and keeps the miners away). +50% bandwidth improvement over VEGA10, and 35% overclock to 2.0 Ghz for average of 40% improvement and 1080Ti will be reached at 232mm2.

They've got 7nm and HBM2, for crying out loud, they should be running circles around 1080Ti.

 

[jabbadap]

1,229 GB/s seems a bit of overkill so 16GB 2048 bit is more adequate for desktop users (and keeps the miners away). +50% bandwidth improvement over VEGA10, and 35% overclock to 2.0 Ghz for average of 40% improvement and 1080Ti will be reached at 232mm2.

Well yeah it's so small that they might actually release it with 2 or 3 hbm2 chips for gaming card. That size of gpu is easily mass produced and it should be relative cheap.

 

[HD64G]

If I was in the lead of RTG team, I would launch a Vega 7nm with +20% FPS from combination of higher clocks for both core and HBM and lower the power consumption to under 250W as possible. This could get very close or higher then 1080Ti in many games, could have competitive price even with the HBM2 added cost and would have no weak points at all (thermals, price, wattage). An even better Vega 56 which didn't have much appeal mostly due to its mining-craziness affected ultra high price (and partially due to the HBM2 shortage at least ultil recently).

 

[medi01]

If I was in the lead of RTG team, I would launch a Vega 7nm with +20% FPS from combination of higher clocks for both core and HBM and lower the power consumption to under 250W as possible. This could get very close or higher then 1080Ti in many games, could have competitive price even with the HBM2 added cost and would have no weak points at all (thermals, price, wattage). An even better Vega 56 which didn't have much appeal mostly due to its mining-craziness affected ultra high price (and partially due to the HBM2 shortage at least ultil recently).

Still too little to late, I'm afraid, with August release of 2080 being planned.

 

[T4C Fantasy]

Still too little to late, I'm afraid, with August release of 2080 being planned.

1180* lol

 

[HD64G]

Still too little to late, I'm afraid, with August release of 2080 being planned.

Me thinks that August will be a paper launch or a talk about the next gen features and most possibly will get new nVidia GPU series only in 2019 on 7nm and GDDR6. If we get anything new from them in 2018, it won't be anything great. Just a testament model for the next gen with small performance increase (10-20% max) and GDDDR6. Not easy to make any performance jump when going from 16nm to 12nm.

 

[Vayra86]

Me thinks that August will be a paper launch or a talk about the next gen features and most possibly will get new nVidia GPU series only in 2019 on 7nm and GDDR6. If we get anything new from them in 2018, it won't be anything great. Just a testament model for the next gen with small performance increase (10-20% max) and GDDDR6. Not easy to make any performance jump when going from 16nm to 12nm.

On Computex in a closed doors speech Jensen was caught saying the next Geforce 'is going to take a looong time' making a waving motion with his hand. Then again - long is an abstract term.

Logic suggests we may see a refresh of Pascal similar to Kepler refresh.

And for some reason I get this feeling there may just be more in the tank with that refresh than just a 10-20% uplift. Not sure why. Gut sense

 

[HD64G]

On Computex in a closed doors speech Jensen was caught saying the next Geforce 'is going to take a looong time' making a waving motion with his hand. Then again - long is an abstract term.

Logic suggests we may see a refresh of Pascal similar to Kepler refresh.

And for some reason I get this feeling there may just be more in the tank with that refresh than just a 10-20% uplift. Not sure why. Gut sense

Exactly what I said. If launched in 2018, not much more than 10% increase in performance due to the small benefits going from 16nm to 12nm. If launched in 2019 oon 7nm though, it will surely get a big jump in performance. Up to 35% as AMD revealed for the next process.

 

[Vayra86]

Exactly what I said. If launched in 2018, not much more than 10% increase in performance due to the small benefits going from 16nm to 12nm. If launched in 2019 oon 7nm though, it will surely get a big jump in performance. Up to 35% as AMD revealed for the next process.

I do not think their next launch will be on 7nm. They have no reason to get in the crowded queue for 7nm production lines because Pascal is easily up to snuff for improvements to last another gen on 16nm. From a cost perspective, I would consider that much more logical and also much more Nvidia style. They literally already have product to cover a full new tier up with Volta and kicking Pascal cards down a tier.

 

[nemesis.ie]

Didn't Lisa imply the gaming version of the new Instinct GPU would follow "soon"? There was also pretty much confirmation of linking chips/cards with infinity fabric.

At the size it is, if power can be kept under control, it should be very doable to pop two of these on one card that behave much closer to a monolithic GPU than multiple cards have done up to now.

If you can then have multiple cards connecting by re-purposing PCIe lanes to IF (like Epyc does) and if they can be made/sold at a reasonable price, we could have a real winner.

 

[sergionography]

1,229 GB/s seems a bit of overkill so 16GB 2048 bit is more adequate for desktop users (and keeps the miners away). +50% bandwidth improvement over VEGA10, and 35% overclock to 2.0 Ghz for average of 40% improvement and 1080Ti will be reached at 232mm2.

35% more performance i believe is more general about 7nm vs 14nm rather than specifically about vega. Problem here is that normally its not very likely for a gpu of this size to be rated at 250w tdp. So we are more likely to see this at 150-180w with slightly better performance than 14nm vega64 due to more stable clocks and better bandwidth. If anything this is more likely to be made into multi chip modules(MCM) via infinity fabric similar to threadripper, but then for that to happen they need to overcome the vega 4096 core scaling limitation, since i heard vega doesnt scale beyond 4096 radeon cores.

 

[londiste]

Vega 20
View attachment 102142
Vega 10
View attachment 102141

HBM size is probably the best common size here, we can be pretty certain that this is HBM2 on both.

• HBM2 die size is 7.75 mm × 11.87 mm (91.99 mm²)
• This puts Vega 10 at around 20.94 mm × 26.79 mm (560.98 mm²).
• And Vega 20 at around 14.79 mm × 23.72 mm (350.82 mm²).

Numbers do come from fairly small images so error might be around 3-4% and up to 10% for areas.
All in all - Vega 20 is ~35% smaller than Vega 10. Assuming this is direct die shrink (which it likely is), pretty nice.

For comparison, 350 mm² is around the size of Tahiti/Tonga in 7970/RX280/RX380. On the other side of the fence, GP104 in GTX1080 is a bit smaller and GM204 in GTX980 is a bit bigger.

 

[T4C Fantasy]

HBM size is probably the best common size here, we can be pretty certain that this is HBM2 on both.

• HBM2 die size is 7.75 mm × 11.87 mm (91.99 mm²)
• This puts Vega 10 at around 20.94 mm × 26.79 mm (560.98 mm²).
• And Vega 20 at around 14.79 mm × 23.72 mm (350.82 mm²).

Numbers do come from fairly small images so error might be around 3-4% and up to 10% for areas.
All in all - Vega 20 is ~35% smaller than Vega 10. Assuming this is direct die shrink (which it likely is), pretty nice.

Vega 10 without hbm is 484 i believe

 

[londiste]

Vega 10 without hbm is 484 i believe

Yeah, that has been the official message. As much as I have seen that, measuring the actual dies always ended up somewhere over 500. So did my Vega. 560 might be a bit too much but I would still put the actual size inside my 10% error margin, at least 520.

 

[T4C Fantasy]

Yeah, that has been the official message. As much as I have seen that, measuring the actual dies always ended up somewhere over 500. So did my Vega. 560 might be a bit too much but I would still put the actual size inside my 10% error margin, at least 520.

Do you still have a vega?