Sony Closely Associated with AMD "Navi" Development

[AltCapwn]

whooosh...

I was talking about payment for services and games.
As a PC gamer, you don't pay those 150$ for 3 years of online play, and if you buy games on a regular basis, add a few more hundreds to that.

God damn, I just realised I've been crooked...

For real tho, you make a good point here, I totally forgot the price of PSN and the higher price of the games. In my case, I buy a month or two if I want to play some games online but it rarely happen and you can buy used game if you don't wanna play full price for a game. Might be a better choice for casual?

 

[Naito]

whooosh...

I was talking about payment for services and games.
As a PC gamer, you don't pay those 150$ for 3 years of online play, and if you buy games on a regular basis, add a few more hundreds to that.

Paying only 400-500$ initially on the machine gives the illusion of saving money.

On-going service cost are definitely something to consider, but really not a huge cost. Look at it this way; I spend $65AU a year on a XBL subscription. Some quick maths and that comes to $650 over 10 years. That would barely buy an i5-8500, a decent MB and 16GB of RAM, let alone everything else for the system. And most people would probably get 2 to 3 systems in that 10 years, if not more. Even if you got 2 consoles in 10 years, that'd be still cheaper.

Then there are the benefits of the a console service. Generally a lot less hacks in MP, a more seemless update experience, most services offer cycle of free games everything fortnight/month, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a PC gamer through and through. My XOX is primarily used for BluRay and Netflix and the XBL subscription goes to waste. Only console exclusives will bring me to game on it.

 

[efikkan]

Console games are much better optimized than PC games, especially exclusives, which is the only thing I play on console.

If by "optimized" you mean console games have optimized content to hit that 30 FPS target, then yes.
If by "optimized" you mean console games perform significantly better than comparable PC hardware, then generally no. Lack of scalability in console ports doesn't mean they are optimized for consoles, it just means they have not designed it to be scalable.

 

[RH92]

He has a point though. For the cost of roughly what you'd for an upper mid-range GPU you'll get an entire system capable of running up to 4K.

That up to 4K is very tricky though ! At what avg frame rate , what 0,1% lows and the most important what graphical settings ..........

On PC despite what some peoples might believe even low tier GPU's ( $150 ish ) can play 4K games today but you have to sacrifice alot of details , consoles aren't any different , they do sacrifice ALOT of details to hit that 4K to the point where the word 4K becomes purely a marketing argument rather than a true feature .

Around 1:04 you can see there's basicaly a night and day difference between PC and consoles despite PC running at 1440p and cosoles at 4K !

 

[Naito]

That up to 4K is very tricky though ! At what avg frame rate , what 0,1% lows and the most important what graphical settings ..........

That is true, but you can't compare them to a $150 GPU as consoles often employ various tricks and techniques to provide a higher level of fidelity and when gaming at two, three or more meters from a TV, you probably wouldn't notice as much difference while engrossed by the game.

And sure, if you're looking for the best visuals and framerate possible, spend big on a decent gaming rig, but if you're a more casual gamer or budget minded, a console may be a pretty decent choice.

Just a note that the PC used in that comparison is running a GTX 1080 Ti; that GPU by itself at least 2 or 3 times the price of a console.

 

[RH92]

That is true, but you can't compare them to a $150 GPU as consoles often employ various tricks and techniques to provide a higher level of fidelity and when gaming at two, three or more meters from a TV, you probably wouldn't notice as much difference while engrossed by the game.

And sure, if you're looking for the best visuals and framerate possible, spend big on a decent gaming rig, but if you're a more casual gamer or budget minded, a console may be a pretty decent choice.

Just a note that the PC used in that comparison is running a GTX 1080 Ti; that GPU by itself at least 2 or 3 times the price of a console.

Yes i noticed that the PC on this comparison is running a 1080Ti but you missed the point . My point with that video was to show that you can't compare 4K on console and PC ( heck i wouldn't even compare it to 1080p on PC ) . Even on lower resolutions PC will always have way better graphical details (assuming you max those out ) .

You can easely hit 1080p 60fps Ultra settings on a $500 to $600 PC on most games today and even 1440p on some games so the price difference between PC and console is very minimal considering i would take 1080p ultra on PC any day of the week over that 4K console experience !

 

[las]

If by "optimized" you mean console games have optimized content to hit that 30 FPS target, then yes.
If by "optimized" you mean console games perform significantly better than comparable PC hardware, then generally no. Lack of scalability in console ports doesn't mean they are optimized for consoles, it just means they have not designed it to be scalable.

Consoles can extract very good graphics and performance from mediocre hardware. Why? Good optimization.
You seem to hate consoles, so why participate in this thread. Are you part of PCMR and stick to a single platform? Sad. I play on pretty much all platforms and the best single player experiences in the last ~5 years have been on console. I only use my PC for MP at this point.

Both PS4 Pro and One X looks pretty nice on my 65" 4K/UHD OLED with HDR. Maybe PC will get proper HDR some day too!

It's actually pretty sad to see how my 1080 Ti is not capable of more. PC games are not optimized well. SDR gaming seems dull after experiencing proper HDR gaming. Even when I connect my OLED TV, starts up a HDR supported PC game, using newest Win 10 and Drivers, HDR is not even close to the consoles right now. So sad.. I guess the dev's don't care much since 99% of PC gamers are using 6-8 bit panels anyway.

 

[Naito]

My point with that video was to show that you can't compare 4K on console and PC ( heck i wouldn't even compare it to 1080p on PC ) .

It's the budget I'm getting at - a console puts out very respectable performance for a rather small investment. Can't speak for the PS4, but most Xbox One X games have different performance modes. The 1080p modes are very, very good quality and you won't get that from a similarly priced PC.

I'm not turning this into a console vs PC war - each to their own and all that. I'm very fortunate to own both a 4K capable PC and an Xbox One X. For the money, the Xbox One X packs a punch and puts out very decent performance (also doubles as a 4K Blu-ray player). The GPU in my PC was almost as expensive as my Xbox.

And then, some people just want to play platform exclusives.

 

[medi01]

AMD has focused most on mainstream GPUs since... forever?
The only curious part is Sony pushing for xmas 2019 7nm release for no visible reason (2 to 1 lead vs Xbox).

 

[RH92]

It's the budget I'm getting at - a console puts out very respectable performance for a rather small investment. Can't speak for the PS4, but most Xbox One X games have different performance modes. The 1080p modes are very, very good quality and you won't get that from a similarly priced PC.

I already adressed this point in my last reply : 1080p Full capable PC's don't cost much more than a console and will certainly provide better graphical quality !

I'm not turning this into a console vs PC war - each to their own and all that. I'm very fortunate to own both a 4K capable PC and an Xbox One X. For the money, the Xbox One X packs a punch and puts out very decent performance (also doubles as a 4K Blu-ray player). The GPU in my PC was almost as expensive as my Xbox.

Well i own a 4K capable PC as well and i've owned many consoles in the past , i agree when you say each to their own and im certainly not trying to turn this into a PC vs console war since as im trying to demonstrate comparing PCs and consoles makes litle sense . All this is a question of standards , consoles provide a good all in one gaming experience for sure but if you want maximal graphical fidelity you have no choice but to go with PC .

 

[efikkan]

Consoles can extract very good graphics and performance from mediocre hardware. Why? Good optimization.

That's a myth. There is nothing inherently faster with console hardware than PC hardware. The software isn't faster either, at least not outside the margin of error. As I mentioned, the limit of actual console optimizations today are calibration of the content to fit a target frame rate. Any optimizations outside of that should benefit AMD on the desktop just as well as Xbox One and PS4, and while AMD favoring titles certainly exist, the favor usually is in the range of 5-20%. This is not enough to make a significant difference. The current consoles are low end hardware compared to PCs, we've not yet seen software optimization in games to make up for this.

You seem to hate consoles, so why participate in this thread.
…
Both PS4 Pro and One X looks pretty nice on my 65" 4K/UHD OLED with HDR

Wow, I didn't even say anything to justify that. I'm gong to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't read my post properly.

I actually like consoles, but I do know there are reasons to buy a console and reasons to by a PC, and "better optimized graphics" on consoles is not one of them. I'm perfectly fine with you being satisfied with your consoles, but I'm reacting to your claims of games having better optimized graphics on consoles, which is factually incorrect.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

That's a myth. There is nothing inherently faster with console hardware than PC hardware.

Actually they do. Consoles require fewer CPU instructions to render a frame than PCs do. CPU doesn't really bottleneck the GPU because of that so they can extract more process time out of the GPU (and CPU too). All of the layers of compatibility and bug checking Windows does prohibits PCs from being as efficient--the price of flexibility and stability.

 

[efikkan]

The latest rumor:
AMD’s Navi will be a traditional monolithic GPU, not a multi-chip module

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Yeah, that most recent WCCF slide omitted the modular feature that previous slides of Navi showed. It adds credibility to the argument that there was a course change in regards to Navi.

 

[Xzibit]

Computex Navi was missing Scalability & Next-Gen memory the roadmaps had since 2014. Next-Gen was just given to what comes after Navi in 7nm+

 

[Naito]

1080p Full capable PC's don't cost much more than a console and will certainly provide better graphical quality!

You would struggle to, in my honest opinion, particularly if you were aiming to buy all new components for warranty purposes. I believe you under estimate how powerful the console refreshes (XOX/PS4P) are. Say XOX GPU is most similar to a RX580; that GPU alone is $450AU. So building a computer for $650AU (the XOX price), with 4K Blu-ray support and other equivalent features, will be very difficult indeed. That'd be true even if the prices weren't inflated due to supply issues. Then there's the closer to metal tools developers can use to squeeze extra performance out of games.

 

[RH92]

You would struggle to, in my honest opinion, particularly if you were aiming to buy all new components for warranty purposes. I believe you under estimate how powerful the console refreshes (XOX/PS4P) are. Say XOX GPU is most similar to a RX580; that GPU alone is $450AU. So building a computer for $650AU (the XOX price), with 4K Blu-ray support and other equivalent features, will be very difficult indeed. That'd be true even if the prices weren't inflated due to supply issues. Then there's the closer to metal tools developers can use to squeeze extra performance out of games.

First of all even if XOX GPU is close to an RX580 you don't need a RX580 or 1060 to run 1080p ultra on PC , something like 1050Ti will perfectly do the job for a fraction of the cost .
Don't know about Australia but here in France XOX sells for around 450 euro and you can have a rig with R3 1200 + 1050Ti for less than 500 euro ( including PSU , ram , mobo etc all new parts ) wich will not only play 1080p Ultra nicely but will also give you a decent upgrade path ( you can go even lower with a Pentium etc ) .

 

[JoniISkandar]

4 new consoles within 10 years. That's rich.
Stop funding this 80s trend of closed machines with shitty closed OSs already...

what kiddo, the console ecosystem is the best Optimized Gaming platform,, run smooth with beautifull graphic, Like God Of War 4,, << ps4 running AMD FX CPU and Polaris GPU,,

i better throw windows if they cant keep with what PS4 OS can do,, especially PC gaming with lot a lot crappy Company like nvidia involve game developer to put their Gameworks and screw performance,, with different Hardware configuration on PC and with Lot bloatware Windows game is,

I already adressed this point in my last reply : 1080p Full capable PC's don't cost much more than a console and will certainly provide better graphical quality !



Well i own a 4K capable PC as well and i've owned many consoles in the past , i agree when you say each to their own and im certainly not trying to turn this into a PC vs console war since as im trying to demonstrate comparing PCs and consoles makes litle sense . All this is a question of standards , consoles provide a good all in one gaming experience for sure but if you want maximal graphical fidelity you have no choice but to go with PC .

can you build 399$ Equivalent PS4 Pro 1080p gaming with PC ? what can you build ? Inlcuding Windows OS, RAM Price and GPU Price right now is fucked, the main thing Console for casual gamer not some people that spend Thousand dollar to play game is Easy use, just turn on Console and plug Bluray disc and play

no bother FPS Drop when certain Setting apply, especially with LOW END gaming machine cost just 400$, and trying to get rid with game settings, to maintain stable FPS,, dont forget Software update like Driver when new game come out,,

dont say you can build with junk USED pc hardware from ebay,,if you do and you can do same when buy PS4 pro used right now is only around 200$,,

 

[dj-electric]

^
People like you who fuel console sales fund this fad. Users get locked in, bending to whatever rules and regulations thrown at them by the always hungry money makers like Microsoft\Sony.

Keep telling yourself that you get a smooth (30FPS) and beautiful (pop ins, low res textures) experience on the pathetic hardware that PS4 has. FX CPU? lol, that low power Jaguar CPU thats in there is similar to a 4 generation old Core i3 at best.

Keep paying just for the right to play with your friend. Keep being restricted to a limited input selection, to one operating system, to DRM, to inexcusably expensive games and services, to a limited library without being able to use other Etailers to buy your games. Stay zombified, drooling over every shitty promise at every E3 to re-invent your gaming experience. Keep the illusion that all games are optimized, that the only payment a user have is for the hardware itself, and there's no bugs or issues of any kind.

 

[JoniISkandar]

^
People like you who fuel console sales fund this fad. Users get locked in, bending to whatever rules and regulations thrown at them by the always hungry money makers like Microsoft\Sony.

Keep telling yourself that you get a smooth (30FPS) and beautiful (pop ins, low res textures) experience on the pathetic hardware that PS4 has. FX CPU? lol, that low power Jaguar CPU thats in there is similar to a 4 generation old Core i3 at best.

Keep paying just for the right to play with your friend. Keep being restricted to a limited input selection, to one operating system, to DRM, to inexcusably expensive games and services, to a limited library without being able to use other Etailers to buy your games. Stay zombified, drooling over every shitty promise at every E3 to re-invent your gaming experience. Keep the illusion that all games are optimized, that the only payment a user have is for the hardware itself, and there's no bugs or issues of any kind.

HUH DUR im asking you BUILD 400$ PC including Windows OS that can run New Game with lot detail that you praise so much on PC without messing around with settings and without bother New game released and asking yourself is my PC can run this thing without upgrade plus updating new driver,, but what you throw to me ? huh

Tell me your glorious PC Graphic build for 400$ That can run More than 30 fps without drop with maintain Graphic Level same as God Of War and Horizon Zero Dawn without messing around in Game Setting trying to figure how maintain GLORIOUS HIGH TEXTURE and 60 FPS minimum..

Yeah that what im said, PS4 still running CRAP Processor, that the point, OS optimized in console is greater than PC, i said above PS4 ecosystem is for people that dont care about Graphic gimmick that today game is throw over the gameplay itself, just how many PC game right now is More and More graphic but lack good gameplay,,

ONE Operatyng system huh ? just how you only play game on Windows, especially Windows 10 right now,, so you build expensive PC gaming to wait cheap game ?

 

[RH92]

can you build 399$ Equivalent PS4 Pro 1080p gaming with PC ? what can you build ? Inlcuding Windows OS, RAM Price and GPU Price right now is fucked, the main thing Console for casual gamer not some people that spend Thousand dollar to play game is Easy use, just turn on Console and plug Bluray disc and play
no bother FPS Drop when certain Setting apply, especially with LOW END gaming machine cost just 400$, and trying to get rid with game settings, to maintain stable FPS,, dont forget Software update like Driver when new game come out,,
dont say you can build with junk USED pc hardware from ebay,,if you do and you can do same when buy PS4 pro used right now is only around 200$,,

Read my last post to Naito ! You can have a decent 1080p gaming PC for around 450 euro ( ps4 pro 400 euro ) . Heck even 100 bucks more isn't much to pay for better graphical quality and much bigger game library !

 

[dj-electric]

HUH DUR im asking you BUILD 400$ PC including Windows OS that can run New Game with lot detail that you praise so much on PC without messing around with settings and without bother New game released and asking yourself is my PC can run this thing without upgrade plus updating new driver,, but what you throw to me ? huh

I throw logic at you, but you seem to be a very slippery one. Nothing catches. I can build an 800$ PC and would still pay much less for the overall experience after 3 years of use, just from the money i save on games.

 

[las]

That's a myth. There is nothing inherently faster with console hardware than PC hardware. The software isn't faster either, at least not outside the margin of error. As I mentioned, the limit of actual console optimizations today are calibration of the content to fit a target frame rate. Any optimizations outside of that should benefit AMD on the desktop just as well as Xbox One and PS4, and while AMD favoring titles certainly exist, the favor usually is in the range of 5-20%. This is not enough to make a significant difference. The current consoles are low end hardware compared to PCs, we've not yet seen software optimization in games to make up for this.

Optimization is a myth? hahaha... You are clueless.
It's way easier to optimize a game for consoles than PC's with 100.000 different configurations. Basic knowledge.
HDR is also a joke on PC. Won't change anytime soon.

I feel sorry for people sticking to a single platform.

 

[Readlight]

to fed more ea whit their ea sports games.