US: The Tax Man Cometh After Online Sales Tax Following Supreme Court's Decision

[GamerNerves]

Very good decision!

 

[eidairaman1]

In certain states the tax was already in effect, so it now will include all 50 states.

 

[Aquinus]

Very good decision!

I'm not sure about that. You should pay taxes to the state you're based out of, not for where the products are going. If I drive to Massachusetts, Maine, or Vermont and buy something, I have to pay their state sales tax. It doesn't really matter if I bring it back to NH or not, it's because the transaction occurred at a business in one of those states with their own sales tax. I don't get a free ride because my own state doesn't have a sales tax. If you apply this same logic to physically going somewhere and buying something, businesses in other states shouldn't charge me for sales tax because I'm a NH resident and NH has no sales tax but, it doesn't work that way. It's a double standard just so states can generate more revenue for transactions conducted in other states. I'm indirectly impacted because it digs into the bottom line of businesses in my state because the Taxachusetts Gravy Train™ needed to find ways to piss away more money and what better way than taking money from a state other their own.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

It's a double standard just so states can generate more revenue for transactions conducted in other states.

California did a study and only 4% of sales tax revenue based on virtual presence sales was collected by the state.

SCOTUS tried the honor system. It didn't work. Time for a new tact.

 

[the54thvoid]

It's never a good idea to ask a customer, who is looking for a bargain, to pay the sales tax later. Honesty doesn't always work that well. It's a sensible move but as always, some will lose out. But then again, it's the old choice, pay taxes (and hope) your state/country will use them well, or don't pay taxes and suffer.
Greece is a good example of being really bad with tax collection, that's a model you want to avoid.

 

[remixedcat]

Ugh we pay enough damn taxes on everything! ...and what does that tax money go to? paying crooked politicians and for illegals to get welfare checks.

 

[Aquinus]

...and what does that tax money go to? paying crooked politicians and for illegals corperations to get welfare checks.

I fixed that for you. You must have missed the part where we're ballooning the national debt and deficit to give the richest people and institutions in our country a tax cut. We pay enough taxes because the entities that should be, aren't. If anything should piss you off, it should be that.

 

[Ravenas]

About damn time.

I don't like being taxed obviously, but if our government either state/federal is going to require sales tax to be collected at brick and mortar, then online retailers should be treated the same. It creates a completely unfair environment for the moms and pops, and even the big box stores.

Nothing really new for me though. Amazon and Newegg both have distribution centers in the great state of Tennessee... I've been paying sales tax to these companies for years.

 

[Aquinus]

I don't like being taxed obviously, but if our government either state/federal is going to require sales tax to be collected at brick and mortar, then online retailers should be treated the same. It creates a completely unfair environment for the moms and pops, and even the big box stores.

I have a problem with expecting small businesses in other states having to understand the sales taxes for every single state that they might ship to or render services for. Companies like NewEgg and Amazon have the logistical muscle to handle it, mom and pop stores don't. Also, when you come up to NH to visit, when you walk into a store we don't ask you where you're from so we can tax you accordingly. It's a double standard. If we want to make this easy and fair, if I buy a product coming from Tennessee, I pay Tennessee sales tax. If I buy a product from Massachusetts, I pay Mass taxes. If I buy it from New Hampshire, I don't pay squat because there isn't a sales tax. I personally don't think where the product is going makes any difference.

 

[Ravenas]

I have a problem with expecting small businesses in other states having to understand the sales taxes for every single state that they might ship to or render services for. Companies like NewEgg and Amazon have the logistical muscle to handle it, mom and pop stores don't. Also, when you come up to NH to visit, when you walk into a store we don't ask you where you're from so we can tax you accordingly. It's a double standard. If we want to make this easy and fair, if I buy a product coming from Tennessee, I pay Tennessee sales tax. If I buy a product from Massachusetts, I pay Mass taxes. If I buy it from New Hampshire, I don't pay squat because there isn't a sales tax. I personally don't think where the product is going makes any difference.

It's a state's decision to enforce sales tax laws. The supreme court left them to that decision. You wouldn't pay Tennessee tax, you would pay NH tax if they chose to enact a sales tax. A lot of states don't have sales tax. Mom and pop businesses that sell online do not calculate tax for every state that they sell in to. There is software to do that.

 

[trparky]

pay taxes (and hope) your state/country will use them well

what does that tax money go to? paying crooked politicians

In my neck of the woods, yes... the tax money goes to the already overstuffed pockets of the corrupt politicians. Cuyahoga County in North East Ohio is known to be one of the most corrupt counties in the state of Ohio. I can't help but to think that we fought a war over this crap and dumped a crap ton of tea into the Boston Harbor over this crap. Taxation without representation and all of that stuff.

Look, if I knew that the tax money was being used for good reasons and not for some pork barrel crap that so many politicians in my area are known to use it for, I wouldn't have a problem paying taxes. But we continue to pay taxes and yet our infrastructure is in deplorable shape; roads, bridges, sewers, all of it are in disrepair.

 

[TheGuruStud]

Oh, look, 9% of disposable income wiped out so the criminals can defraud us even more. 90% of tax money is already wasted, so I'm sure this extra bit will be put to good use.

Scotus is a joke. Where are they on all the super illegal activity the executive branch has been up to for the last 20 years? Oh, right, they're bought and paid for and rule in 5/4 decisions or straight refuse to "hear" cases, so they don't even have to vote. Execute them.

 

[Aquinus]

A lot of states don't have sales tax.

When you say a lot, I think you mean 5.

except for Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon.

Mom and pop businesses that sell online do not calculate tax for every state that they sell in to. There is software to do that.

I'm sure that they're just jumping at the chance to spend some more money on some new software that very well might have licensing costs. It's just like paying ADP so you can easily handle income tax laws for workers in different states, except now it's practically a requirement to do business online. Once again though, it doesn't chance how it's a double standard because a business won't charge you Tennessee sales tax should you come up and visit and buy stuff up here instead of having it shipped. So once again, what difference does shipping it make? The only difference is who brought it back to your house.

 

[Prima.Vera]

Have you seen our economy compared to most of Europes? Not only are we the largest economy in the world we are one of the fastest growing. So yeah......we are different. You literally have to use the entire EU to beat the US economically in growth.

Typical ignorant comment....
You forgot that EU has 28 states, while the US has 50? And no, US definetly is NOT one of the fastest growing economies. Not by a long shot...

 

[rtwjunkie]

Typical ignorant comment....
You forgot that EU has 28 states, while the US has 50? And no, US definetly is NOT one of the fastest growing economies. Not by a long shot...

True, but it was a two parter. It is the largest GDP, followed by EU.

 

[R-T-B]

actually this is a boon to small businesses whose customer base was largely closer to home and thus is already paying sales tax.

You are assuming small businesses all operate "close to home"

Take a look at many ebay cell phone repair shops and such, you will quickly realize that is not the only or even common reality anymore. A metric ton of "small business" happens that way. Heck, in an age past, maybe even I did this.

True, but it was a two parter. It is the largest GDP, followed by EU.

Fair response but I think the point was that mailman's claim has no basis.

Ugh we pay enough damn taxes on everything! ...and what does that tax money go to? paying crooked politicians and for illegals to get welfare checks.

I'm on welfare right now. and trust me, it isn't that special. I make about enough to eat ramen noodles and live in a 6-man bunkroom if I lived on my own.

 

[remixedcat]

I'm on welfare right now. and trust me, it isn't that special. I make about enough to eat ramen noodles and live in a 6-man bunkroom if I lived on my own.

I'm talking about the illegal migrants. They get more welfare benefits than a disabled citizen born n' raised here. Those people should come to work or leave. Japan has a very strict process, yet nobody calls them racist or talk shit about them like they do about the US. Cut welfare to all migrants and you'll have way more money to spend on infrastructure, etc. Just let disabled and vets be the only ones that get permanent aid, and have temporary aid for those in between jobs, had a disaster happen (death of a family member that the house depended on, natural disasters, home insurance claim denials, and if something like arson happened or a pipe leak or whatnot) low income mothers and fathers (this is also a bonus because it will end a majority of abortions - makes me highly support that as a pretty hard pro-lifer) (only have it the first 2 years, and if child has disabilities give them permanent aid,). If this system was worked in like that we'd clean up that system and have more money and not having to raise taxes.

 

[R-T-B]

They get more welfare benefits than a disabled citizen born n' raised here.

I'm really doubtful of that... and will request some facts to back it up, as such. I'm on pretty much the same shit tier "you didn't pay in" tier they'd be on, I'm fairly certain.

I'm in Washington State, which granted, has about as many illegal immigrants as you can expect from... canada ... but I mean isn't SS a federal establishment and rate?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Off topic: this was discussed Wednesday on TPU Discord:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...mmigration&btnG=&oq=economic+impacts+of+immig

Borjas and Trejo (1991) calculated that the average immigrant family costs $13.5k for the welfare system over the course of their US stay, compared to the $7.9k cost of a native family.

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are in California, Nevada, and Texas:

The pacific northwest doesn't even register in the top 10. Granted, the number of illegals in Washington state have increased where most other states have decreased between 2009 and 2014. Pew disagrees with the above, 2012 image. Here's their 2014 infograph.

On topic: Most of my sales tax goes to public schools and community college.

 

[R-T-B]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...welfare-than-american-families-5-692-vs-4-431

See above. Poor people do tend to cost more to take care of. Sadly, I'm as poor as a mexican fresh off the border right now, in raw cash and income terms... so the government probably pays me the same. Again, it isn't much. Welfare is NOT a cakewalk.

Keep in mind those are all averages too. This isn't a situation of "you are illegal, automatic bonus!"

The pacific northwest doesn't even register in the top 10. Granted, the number of illegals in Washington state have increased where most other states have decreased between 2009 and 2014. Pew disagrees with the above, 2012 image. Here's their 2014 infograph.

Irrelevant what state it is as benefits are federal.

You are including medical costs and such (ala medicare and the like from social security) to come to this conclusion. I guess that makes sense. I'm just talking the money in blank check form. Believe me, it's next to nothing. And unless you feel we should start turning away illegals at hospitals, not much can be done on that front.

But this is very offtopic, so I'll cut it there as basically it's all a matter of what you count at this point.

 

[remixedcat]

I'm really doubtful of that... and will request some facts to back it up, as such. I'm on pretty much the same shit tier "you didn't pay in" tier they'd be on, I'm fairly certain.

I'm in Washington State, which granted, has about as many illegal immigrants as you can expect from... canada ... but I mean isn't SS a federal establishment and rate?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...welfare-than-american-families-5-692-vs-4-431

 

[Norton]

Subject of news article- US state sales tax....

Excerpt:

Supreme Court decision last Thursday may be just what the doctor ordered for states' ability to collect taxes on online sales from a much wider variety of businesses. The decision, passed with 5-4 votes from the Justices involved, overrules previous understandings regarding the physical presence rule: essentially, that a business was only forced to collect sales tax and send it to the State it's operating if it had some sort of physical presence (be it warehouses or some such) in that particular state. If not, taxes were still due - but shoppers had to take the initiative of delivering their taxable amount to the state.

Anything else is off topic- return to topic please

 

[yogurt_21]

You are assuming small businesses all operate "close to home"

Take a look at many ebay cell phone repair shops and such, you will quickly realize that is not the only or even common reality anymore. A metric ton of "small business" happens that way. Heck, in an age past, maybe even I did this.



Fair response but I think the point was that mailman's claim has no basis.



I'm on welfare right now. and trust me, it isn't that special. I make about enough to eat ramen noodles and live in a 6-man bunkroom if I lived on my own.

... just what percentage of US small businesses do you think ebay based cell phone repairmen represent????


my point stands.

 

[Fx]

Even with all of Europe combined, we can't beat your (USA) debt ... so you win that one ...

Personally, i think it's better to grow less while having low debt than grow fast with high debt.

It is only the illusion of growth and prosperity. The bubbles are there and they will burst sooner than later. Next one will be much worse than the last and will effect everyone else like a domino effect.

 

[R-T-B]

... just what percentage of US small businesses do you think ebay based cell phone repairmen represent????


my point stands.

That's very specific case I was using as an example. You want the other extreme? Look at etsy.

My point is small online business has exploded. I'd very much maintain my point is very valid, and stands.