PSU Help! Are there different types of 24-pin PSUs that are not compatible with ATX mobos?

[Bluescreendeath]

So I have 2x proprietary Delta 475watt PSUs from the HPZ400 series.

Basically this thing: Delta DPS-475CB-1A
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Delta-DP...cAAOSwj0RbJ7B-

It comes with a 24 pin motherboard cable, 4 pin cpu cable, and a 6 pin GPU cable. I tried to plug this into a standard 24 pin Asus 1155 motherboard - I see a blue flash of light but the motherboard doesn't light up.

I tried to connect this to a Z230 (with a 18 to 24 pin cable)...nothing boots up.

I troubleshoot with my Antec 500watt with both the Asus computer and HP Z230 - and the Antec works for both computers. The Asus motherboard boots up immediately, while the Antec 500 works with the 24 pin to 18 pin adapter and boots up the HP Z230.

Does anyone know why both of my Delta 475 watts not work? Are they dead? Or do certain PSUs have some weird frequency/hertz/ATX spec/etc that doesn't work for standard motherboards despite being 24 pins?

 

[looniam]

ah, you said it yourself::

So I have 2x proprietary Delta 475watt PSUs from the HPZ400 series.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1760414/475w-psu-power-gigabyte-gtx-760.html#r11312434

 

[Good Guru]

I know that since haswell some power supplies need to be "haswell compatible" for the low c states not to crash this I think would be since lga1150?

Hope this helps!

 

[Bluescreendeath]

ah, you said it yourself::
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1760414/475w-psu-power-gigabyte-gtx-760.html#r11312434

Thanks. It's weird, because my HP Z230 18 pin motherboard works perfectly fine with standard 24 pin ATX PSUs when I use an 18 to 24 pin connector.

So despite being 24 pin, they have some proprietary wiring system that doesn't work?

I know that since haswell some power supplies need to be "haswell compatible" for the low c states not to crash this I think would be since lga1150?

Hope this helps!

I tested this in an 1155 ivy bridge and 1150 haswell pc. It looks like it's some weird proprietary wiring as looniam mentioned.

 

[looniam]

Thanks. It's weird, because my HP Z230 18 pin motherboard works perfectly fine with standard 24 pin ATX PSUs when I use an 18 to 24 pin connector.

So despite being 24 pin, they have some proprietary wiring system that doesn't work?

here you go:

found it HERE

 

[eidairaman1]

So I have 2x proprietary Delta 475watt PSUs from the HPZ400 series.

Basically this thing: Delta DPS-475CB-1A
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Delta-DP...cAAOSwj0RbJ7B-

It comes with a 24 pin motherboard cable, 4 pin cpu cable, and a 6 pin GPU cable. I tried to plug this into a standard 24 pin Asus 1155 motherboard - I see a blue flash of light but the motherboard doesn't light up.

I tried to connect this to a Z230 (with a 18 to 24 pin cable)...nothing boots up.

I troubleshoot with my Antec 500watt with both the Asus computer and HP Z230 - and the Antec works for both computers. The Asus motherboard boots up immediately, while the Antec 500 works with the 24 pin to 18 pin adapter and boots up the HP Z230.

Does anyone know why both of my Delta 475 watts not work? Are they dead? Or do certain PSUs have some weird frequency/hertz/ATX spec/etc that doesn't work for standard motherboards despite being 24 pins?

Connectors are certainly different by volts applied, you are fortunate you didnt blow the board up. You can always see if you can get an adapter or a pin extractor and get a resistor to drop the voltages at the bottom of the connector diagram above.

Thank goodness overvolt protection worked.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

You blew your board up, did you force the connector in?

Which board? I did not force anything in. They're all 24 pin PSUs. I only tried the HP Z400 PSU into the standard ATX motherboards. I think this won't blow any motherboards but trying to insert a standard ATX PSU into a Z400 mobo will blow the Z400 motherboard?

here you go:

View attachment 103176

found it HERE

Thank you! If i had a little more patience and a soldering gun, maybe I'll attempt the guy's modding project...

 

[eidairaman1]

Which board? I did not force anything in. They're all 24 pin PSUs. I only tried the HP Z400 PSU into the standard ATX motherboards. I think this won't blow any motherboards but trying to insert a standard ATX PSU into a Z400 mobo will blow the Z400 motherboard?




Thank you! If i had a little more patience and a soldering gun, maybe I'll attempt the guy's modding project...

I re did my last post, re-read it. It seems only 1 or 2 lines need a resistor

 

[Bluescreendeath]

I re did my last post, re-read it. It seems only 1 or 2 lines need a resistor

Connectors are certainly different by volts applied, you are fortunate you didnt blow the board up. You can always see if you can get an adapter or a pin extractor and get a resistor to drop the voltages at the bottom of the connector diagram above.
Thank goodness overvolt protection worked.

Yeh, good thing it worked.

Didn't see an adapter to convert non-ATX PSUs to ATX, but I did see an adapter for ATX PSU to non-ATX motherboard. As for the pin extractors...maybe. I do want to tweak it, but buying the correct PSU is only $10 more...hmmmm

 

[eidairaman1]

Yeh, good thing it worked.

Didn't see an adapter to convert non-ATX PSUs to ATX, but I did see an adapter for ATX PSU to non-ATX motherboard. As for the pin extractors...maybe. I do want to tweak it, but buying the correct PSU is only $10 more...hmmmm

If you want it working now buy the psu, if you want a challenge do the mods needed.

 

[looniam]

if you want something that won't turn into a flaming brick:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYGJL0E/
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=384

i was looking at that 400 until i saw its' review:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=436

though the ripple on the 550 is "iffy" it won't be an issue for a "lightweight" machine.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

if you want something that won't turn into a flaming brick:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYGJL0E/
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=384

i was looking at that 400 until i saw its' review:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=436

though the ripple on the 550 is "iffy" it won't be an issue for a "lightweight" machine.

Thanks, I'll look into that one for my budget builds. For my current one, I think I will be getting the OEM Delta 400 watt (gold rated 92% efficent) that comes in HP Z220s and Z230s. The EVGA PSU can provide more juice, but it doesn't have the right holes to install into my HP Z230 case.

For my regular ATX PSU needs, I often prowl ebay for lightly used/new-pulled Antec/Seasonic PSUs. A year ago, I got a great deal on a couple of new-pulled (no dust) Antec Truepower v2/v3 650 watts for only $30 each.

 

[looniam]

sounds like a plan that's worked for you before, so yeah, good luck "hunting"(?)

 

[Deleted member 163934]

here you go:

View attachment 103176

found it HERE

the +3.3V and +5V can be happy took from the other +3.3/+5V wires that already go in that 24 pin connector, voltage come from same rail in most if not all PSU cases (I don't really remember hearing in the last years of a psu that has 2 rails for the +3.3V or +5V to split the load..., most load is on the +12V). The only problem that I see is the -5V because meh there is only the -12V that can be used for that and it will require some work (if you have the tools see if by any chance there is actually a -5V inside the PSU but it's just not wired; be careful not to electrocute yourself if you open the psu and work with it like that). You were lucky that the +12V on the +5V and +3.3V didn't destroyed things...

 

[Bill_Bright]

I know that since haswell some power supplies need to be "haswell compatible" for the low c states not to crash this I think would be since lga1150?

This is true but it has nothing to do with the main 24-pin layout configuration. If the PSU is ATX compliant, the pin layout will be as prescribed by the ATX Form Factor standard.

Now some makers use a 20 + 4 pin connector where the last 4-pin part can break away to support older 20 pin motherboards. But the first 20 pins on a 24-pin connector and on the 20-pin connector are wired the same.

So as looniam first pointed out, you said it yourself - you have a proprietary supply.

The only problem that I see is the -5V

Yeah, but no current ATX compliant motherboard uses the -5 (or -12) VDC voltages. Those are only there for legacy hardware support and... wait for it... proprietary applications. It should also be noted that computer power supplies are often used in non-computer applications where negative voltages may be needed.

 

[nomdeplume]

@looniam saved me a lot of typing. The model specific HP PSU's are not awful. You need to remember their machines are built this way for safety and reliability. For as many of them as they make there is no getting around contracting an evolved design instead of using something off the shelf. This also means they can dictate how easy the workstations are to service, a good thing.

 

[jboydgolfer]

Make sure you also plug-in any 4 or 8 pin CPU power cables that may be required for your system

 

[Bluescreendeath]

@looniam saved me a lot of typing. The model specific HP PSU's are not awful. You need to remember their machines are built this way for safety and reliability. For as many of them as they make there is no getting around contracting an evolved design instead of using something off the shelf. This also means they can dictate how easy the workstations are to service, a good thing.

HP switched to standard ATX PSUs (but with 18 pin for a lot of them...) in their more recent models as my ATX PSUs works fine with them with an adapter. Their recent proprietary PSU models in the Z200 series (ATX PSU) are slightly better than the ones in the older Z400 series (non-ATX PSU) - with 92% gold rated Deltas vs 85% bronze rated Deltas.

 

[Bill_Bright]

For as many of them as they make there is no getting around contracting an evolved design instead of using something off the shelf.

I disagree completely. "Evolved design"? No way! There is no reason they cannot use industry standard, off-the-shelf components. The military learned this years ago. As long as the equipment is not subjected to extreme conditions as might be found in battle/mobility scenarios, off the shelf components are just as capable and reliable, and of most importance to their customers (us taxpayers), less expensive too.

Which brings me to your next point.

This also means they can dictate how easy the workstations are to service, a good thing.

Again, not true. Off-the-shelf, industry standard components does not impose more difficult service requirements. In fact, it means less specialized training is required - and that's a good thing. It also means off-the-shelf devices in need of repair can be fixed with more, and easier to find, less expensive off-the-shelf components. Also a good thing.

What using proprietary parts does is dictate how consumers must obtain service and replacement parts only from the maker. And that does two things: (1) it drives up costs for us consumers and (2) increases profits for the maker. Well, 3 things actually. The use of proprietary parts greatly limits options for the consumer.

Why did Apple Macs cost so much more than PCs? Because Macs were extremely proprietary. Every part, even software had to come from Apple. So there was no competition. No competition is never good for the consumer.

And were Apple Macs more reliable? No. Did they have longer longevity? No. Did they cost more? Yes? Were they easier to repair? No. Were they easier to upgrade? No. In fact, they had fewer, more expensive upgrade options.

The greatest thing that EVER happened for the PC and for consumers of PCs is the ATX Form Factor standard. Without that, we consumers could NEVER EVER use a Gigabyte motherboard with an MSI graphics card, Crucial RAM, WD hard drive, Samsung SSD, Seasonic power supply and put them all in a Fractal Design case, connect power and all the interconnecting data cables, then attach a Samsung and a Benq monitor and expect them to work! Yet that is exactly what we can do BECAUSE we can use industry standard, off-the-shelf components.

JUST BECAUSE there is no similar form factor standard for notebooks, there is no thriving notebook parts industry, or retailers like NewEgg, Microcenter, TigerDirect specializing in notebook components where we, as consumers, can custom build (or upgrade!) our own notebooks with parts from 100s of different makers.

 

[nomdeplume]

Specialized training to replace something in a HP workstation. OK Bill, you got me. I stopped right there having discovered my position was not worth defense.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Specialized training to replace something in a HP workstation. OK Bill, you got me. I stopped right there having discovered my position was not worth defense.

Okay, perhaps I should have said "additional" training instead of specialized but I am pretty sure you knew what I meant.

Specialized does not mean advanced training that takes a PhD to understand. But if something is proprietary, and does not comply with industry standards (which is what is taught in tech schools), then techs at HP, Dell, Apple, etc. will require "additional" training to learn how to identify the differences, and then how to troubleshoot and repair them.

Beyond that, I stand by what I said. There is nothing to suggest proprietary means "evolved" in to something better or easier than the industry standards - especially when it comes to moving a couple wires around on a PSU and motherboard power connector and in particular, proprietary does not mean something better or easier for us consumers.

 

[bug]

As I like to say again and again: standards are essential, we wouldn't know what to deviate from without them. Stupid HP

 

[sneekypeet]

How about we argue less about semantics and try to help the OP solve his issue.

 

[bug]

How about we argue less about semantics and try to help the OP solve his issue.

Didn't @looniam do just that? The PSU is non-standard, it will not work with standard motherboards. Case/thread closed.

 

[sneekypeet]

Didn't @looniam do just that? The PSU is non-standard, it will not work with standard motherboards. Case/thread closed.

So now we have to close every thread because you all cant keep yourselves from arguing?