NVIDIA: Don't Expect Base 20-Series Pricing to Be Available at Launch

[cucker tarlson]

I am not an nVidia fanboy but wow, so much nVidia bashing. Are the prices too high? I don't know. It really depends on your situation. According to the CEO they spent 10 years of R&D (definitely with numerous failures) to get to this point. It is just like pharmaceutical companies charge a lot of money for a new drug. They spent a lot of time with trials and failures to get the products market ready. They have to recoup the cost somehow. It is called capitalism at work. Don't like it, don't buy it. But calling others sucker for buying them? That is sour grapes.

We pre-ordered 2 because of one thing - tensor cores. Previously to get 600 tensor cores we had to shell out for Titan V @$3000 each. Now the 2080 ti packs the same tensor cores count at less than half the price. We have to try them out to see how they fare. It is a bargain in my opinion, but like I said, it depends on your situation. For gaming though, if they can do 4k very well, then I think it is an okay deal if you can afford it.

There are no better alternatives, gaming or work load-wise. AMD has nothing that is even close at this point.

They took a gamble going into developing AI and RT acceleration instead of raw compute power,time will tell whether that was a good decision in the long run, they're a smart company though they are ruthless at the same time.

 

[LFaWolf]

They took a gamble going into developing AI and RT acceleration instead of raw compute power,time will tell whether that was a good decision in the long run, they're a smart company though they are ruthless at the same time.

I don't know much about the gaming "compute" power here but I believe, or I think, they are seeing that they will hit a wall with diminished return soon or very soon (such as shaders tech). At some point different innovation will have to come along to replacing aging tech, right? I guess ray tracing is what they come up with.

Every successful company is ruthless.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I don't know much about the gaming "compute" power here but I believe, or I think, they are seeing that they will hit a wall with diminished return soon or very soon (such as shaders tech). At some point different innovation will have to come along to replacing aging tech, right? I guess ray tracing is what they come up with.

Every successful company is ruthless.

They cant hit a wall soon ,, do you think panel makers and oems sit still, 8k is a year away at most , so shader tech still needs work , and Raytracing is not fully replacing rasterisation in the next decade ,imho.
Dont get me wrong though ,new tech , Innovation and ideas make me smile so im also tempted myself still ,but I await reviews and probably some settling time yet.

 

[Steevo]

since when performance between 1080 and 1080ti (worst case scenario for 2070) is entry level ? It's faster than AMD's current highest end liquid cooled hbm2 card that came out last year.

I didn't realize you had access to third party benchmarks. My bad.......

I am not an nVidia fanboy but wow, so much nVidia bashing. Are the prices too high? I don't know. It really depends on your situation. According to the CEO they spent 10 years of R&D (definitely with numerous failures) to get to this point. It is just like pharmaceutical companies charge a lot of money for a new drug. They spent a lot of time with trials and failures to get the products market ready. They have to recoup the cost somehow. It is called capitalism at work. Don't like it, don't buy it. But calling others sucker for buying them? That is sour grapes.

We pre-ordered 2 because of one thing - tensor cores. Previously to get 600 tensor cores we had to shell out for Titan V @$3000 each. Now the 2080 ti packs the same tensor cores count at less than half the price. We have to try them out to see how they fare. It is a bargain in my opinion, but like I said, it depends on your situation. For gaming though, if they can do 4k very well, then I think it is an okay deal if you can afford it.

There are no better alternatives, gaming or work load-wise. AMD has nothing that is even close at this point.

I hope the card is so amazing its price/performance is unbeatable.

That being said, if it's not, and suggestions are it's not, them making a 10 year mistake is on them, and people preordering and paying their price is only fueling their stupid idea.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[the54thvoid]

I don't know much about the gaming "compute" power here but I believe, or I think, they are seeing that they will hit a wall with diminished return soon or very soon (such as shaders tech). At some point different innovation will have to come along to replacing aging tech, right? I guess ray tracing is what they come up with.

Every successful company is ruthless.

They cant hit a wall soon ,, do you think panel makers and oems sit still, 8k is a year away at most , so shader tech still needs work , and Raytracing is not fully replacing rasterisation in the next decade ,imho.
Dont get me wrong though ,new tech , Innovation and ideas make me smile so im also tempted myself still ,but I await reviews and probably some settling time yet.

To you both, technology always moves along but at an extreme end. The 8k panels are absolutely the toys of the rich. 4k is not even wildly adopted yet, nowhere close. 8k will not be supported in any meaningful way for years. 4k has been around for years and still, it's poorly implemented (only UHD Blu-Rays actually give full uncompressed detail - in the UK at least)

As for RT, I don't call playing 60fps at 1080p a great thing. It doesn't suit twitch gamers, nor does it suit people who have moved up to 1440p or 4k. There is no doubt, RT is an awesome step forward and I am sure Nvidia will bring it to close to us as the time passes. But paying such hideous amounts to play at (max?) 60 fps at HD res? Nah. Not a positive step. It's a backward trek.

I paid a lot for a 4k TV (OLED) 2-3 years ago, but it was working tech without compromise. RT from Nvidia is too early to call working tech (doesn't work at 1440p or 4k as far as I'm concerned). The hardware to deliver such hampered framerates does not justify the price. For uses outside gaming - by all means, but this is being sold as a gaming card and few gamers can afford a $1000 card.

There's also a deeply philosophical meaning here as well. People who liked to buy the top end used to pay 500 bucks (or pounds/euros). That was HD7970, or GTX680. That slowly crept up until last generation a GTX1080ti was UK £699, at launch, at least. That was pricey, for me. And I'm not in any way poor. Not rich, a bit off comfortable, but not poor. But to jump to £1000 (more like £1100) is actually hard to take. It's Nvidia saying to people without such a disposable income, "you're not good enough to buy our shit". People who could barely afford the last generation can no longer afford the new top line. That's actually damaging to self-esteem. It makes you feel 'poorer' because you can't afford what you were used to buying. Nvidia have intentionally jacked prices to (A) cover the loss of mining revenue, and (B) increase stock price by having such an item for sale.

I'd love to tell JSH what a fucking arsehole he is being by asking such a stupid price for a card to play games on. Then I'd probably rob him, steal his trendy Star Trek Next Gen style jacket and act all cool.

The saddest part, AMD WILL NOT be saving us anytime soon.

 

[LFaWolf]

I didn't realize you had access to third party benchmarks. My bad.......

I hope the card is so amazing its price/performance is unbeatable.

That being said, if it's not, and suggestions are it's not, them making a 10 year mistake is on them, and people preordering and paying their price is only fueling their stupid idea.

I hope I'm wrong.

For work load, if they continue to give me the same performance at 45% of the price, I will continue to fuel their idea.

For gaming though, I am not sure. I can see that they are trying to steer the industry to their ray tracing technology and AI in gaming. For existing games, the 20xx series will not have astounding improvement. However, if enough studios adopt this new tech and utilizing them in game along with in game improved AI, that is a winner within a year in my opinion. The performance improvement will be well worth it.

 

[eidairaman1]

Means cards suck

 

[LFaWolf]

To you both, technology always moves along but at an extreme end. The 8k panels are absolutely the toys of the rich. 4k is not even wildly adopted yet, nowhere close. 8k will not be supported in any meaningful way for years. 4k has been around for years and still, it's poorly implemented (only UHD Blu-Rays actually give full uncompressed detail - in the UK at least)

As for RT, I don't call playing 60fps at 1080p a great thing. It doesn't suit twitch gamers, nor does it suit people who have moved up to 1440p or 4k. There is no doubt, RT is an awesome step forward and I am sure Nvidia will bring it to close to us as the time passes. But paying such hideous amounts to play at (max?) 60 fps at HD res? Nah. Not a positive step. It's a backward trek.

I paid a lot for a 4k TV (OLED) 2-3 years ago, but it was working tech without compromise. RT from Nvidia is too early to call working tech (doesn't work at 1440p or 4k as far as I'm concerned). The hardware to deliver such hampered framerates does not justify the price. For uses outside gaming - by all means, but this is being sold as a gaming card and few gamers can afford a $1000 card.

There's also a deeply philosophical meaning here as well. People who liked to buy the top end used to pay 500 bucks (or pounds/euros). That was HD7970, or GTX680. That slowly crept up until last generation a GTX1080ti was UK £699, at launch, at least. That was pricey, for me. And I'm not in any way poor. Not rich, a bit off comfortable, but not poor. But to jump to £1000 (more like £1100) is actually hard to take. It's Nvidia saying to people without such a disposable income, "you're not good enough to buy our shit". People who could barely afford the last generation can no longer afford the new top line. That's actually damaging to self-esteem. It makes you feel 'poorer' because you can't afford what you were used to buying. Nvidia have intentionally jacked prices to (A) cover the loss of mining revenue, and (B) increase stock price by having such an item for sale.

I'd love to tell JSH what a fucking arsehole he is being by asking such a stupid price for a card to play games on. Then I'd probably rob him, steal his trendy Star Trek Next Gen style jacket and act all cool.

The saddest part, AMD WILL NOT be saving us anytime soon.

The price increase also partly due to inflation, cost of goods sold including salaries of their engineers, cost of manufacturing increase etc. There are so many factors. To pin that on mining is ridiculous. If I remember correctly their last 10Q mining was only $100M of their income or something like that. A low 10-15% overall.

Good stuff ain't cheap. Free stuff ain't good. So you just want stuff for free all the time?

 

[the54thvoid]

So you just want stuff for free all the time?

Don't be so flippant. Happy to pay for premium stuff, if it delivers. I've owned 780ti (x2), 980ti (Kingpin) and my current card. But the increase in cost for the new card is highly disproportionate. Put it on a graph and come back and justify that to me.

Inflation is not 57% [£2080ti-£1080ti as a %]. BOM costs, salaries etc, not in any way related to such a hike in cost. The only thing is yield per wafer. Even then, none of that is likely to add to 57%. I'm afraid people were correct. The Titan model seemingly was an experiment in graphics card market capitalism. What will folks pay for the very top? Guess Nvidia took that to the bank and said, okay, next time, the xx80ti will replace the Titan in cost.

Anybody that believes a top end consumer 'gamers' graphics card should cost well above $1100/£1100 is smoking some hideous entitled shit.

 

[Steevo]

I'm curious, with all the new "cores" that are making the magic of Ray Tracing a thing, why are they only able to push 1080 60FPS unless they are losing graphics performance?

If the dedicated hardware not enough to perform all the work needed?

 

[BadFrog]

I guess nVidia figured if you're going to spend several hundred and up on your gaming monitor why not sell their cards starting at $500

Ahh. Good old capitalism at it's best. Don't hate the player, hate the game lol

 

[LFaWolf]

Don't be so flippant. Happy to pay for premium stuff, if it delivers. I've owned 780ti (x2), 980ti (Kingpin) and my current card. But the increase in cost for the new card is highly disproportionate. Put it on a graph and come back and justify that to me.

Inflation is not 57% [£2080ti-£1080ti as a %]. BOM costs, salaries etc, not in any way related to such a hike in cost. The only thing is yield per wafer. Even then, none of that is likely to add to 57%. I'm afraid people were correct. The Titan model seemingly was an experiment in graphics card market capitalism. What will folks pay for the very top? Guess Nvidia took that to the bank and said, okay, next time, the xx80ti will replace the Titan in cost.

Anybody that believes a top end consumer 'gamers' graphics card should cost well above $1100/£1100 is smoking some hideous entitled shit.

I don't mean to offend you, but you are the one showing your anger toward the CEO. Sounds like you are angry paying for the cards over the years.

I think price is slightly higher but justifiable. The 2080 ti is for the top end and for people that don't want to pay that, the 2080 is an option. It is faster than the 1080 ti but at a higher cost. The problem is people are anchored in that the ti is the top card and “should” be at a certain price point. I say buy what you can afford to pay if the performance gain gives you the satisfaction. Not everyone needs the top end cards.

 

[TheGuruStud]

I don't mean to offend you, but you are the one showing your anger toward the CEO. Sounds like you are angry paying for the cards over the years.

I think price is slightly higher but justifiable. The 2080 ti is for the top end and for people that don't want to pay that, the 2080 is an option. It is faster than the 1080 ti but at a higher cost. The problem is people are anchored in that the ti is the top card and “should” be at a certain price point. I say buy what you can afford to pay if the performance gain gives you the satisfaction. Not everyone needs the top end cards.

Faster than 1080ti lolololol. You have good jokes.

Nvidia didn't think the naming through. They should have known it was going to be called Turding.

 

[birdie]

Lies on top of lies on top of meaningless/false accusations - it's getting really old already ;-)

1) NVIDIA doesn't force anyone to buy their GPUs. Let me repeat that, you are not forced to buy Turing GPUs ;-)
2) NVIDIA sets the prices as they see fit (actually they have very smart accountants/marketing staff). There's very little if any competition at the high end, so we're reaping the "benefits" of underperforming RTG.
3) Though async is not implemented in HW in Pascal, NVIDIA GPUs work just fine in games/benchmarks which use it.
4) Async gives a boost to AMD GPUs and NVIDIA doesn't benefit from it as much but it's because NVIDIA's D3D11/OpenGL hw/sw implementation is close to perfect (NVIDIA GPUs with lower theoretical performance have almost always outperformed "faster" AMD GPUs), thus async is basically a gimmick for NVIDIA GPUs.
5) Guys, if you have so much spare cash to burn, what your issue is? And if you don't, 1080p/1440p are perfectly served by GTX 1060/1070 (Ti) which are reasonably priced nowadays. Why are you moaning about the RTX series?

Edit: it's funny to have received four -1 ratings with zero rebuttals. Someone is hurting over buring their cash. LOL. 1st world problems, I see.

 

[moproblems99]

For work load, if they continue to give me the same performance at 45% of the price, I will continue to fuel their idea.

For gaming though, I am not sure. I can see that they are trying to steer the industry to their ray tracing technology and AI in gaming. For existing games, the 20xx series will not have astounding improvement. However, if enough studios adopt this new tech and utilizing them in game along with in game improved AI, that is a winner within a year in my opinion. The performance improvement will be well worth it.

I am pretty sure that they changed the name to RTX instead of GTX because GTX is a gaming line and these RTX cards are clearly not focused on gaming. They don't seem to be able to push ray tracing to useful levels (1080@60, nah). This way, next gen they can relabel the 30 series as GTX because it will most likely bring ray tracing to a close to acceptable level and not tarnish the GTX name.

 

[LFaWolf]

Faster than 1080ti lolololol. You have good jokes.

Nvidia didn't think the naming through. They should have known it was going to be called Turding.

So you don't think the 2080 will be faster than the 1080ti? History (the last 2 gen) has shown that is the case though.

980 > 780 ti
1080 > 980 ti

 

[Ithanul]

I can afford it but I refuse to pay it.

My GTX1080ti will keep me company for a while yet.

Same. I think I will skip out this generation of cards. The tech looks neat, but I never much cared to be an early adopter. Plus, considering I have not bought any PC games for over a year or two, I'm good.

 

[TheGuruStud]

So you don't think the 2080 will be faster than the 1080ti? History (the last 2 gen) has shown that is the case though.

980 > 780 ti
1080 > 980 ti

Same clocks, same arch, less CCs. Do the math. Baloney tricks don't count.

 

[LFaWolf]

Same clocks, same arch, less CCs. Do the math. Baloney tricks don't count.

The 2080 has higher base and boost clocks, and is a different architecture.

 

[TheGuruStud]

The 2080 has higher base and boost clocks, and is a different architecture.

Zero to negligible increase, especially since everyone has AIB cards. And we know clocks don't do much for paxwellvolturing.

Citation required for "new".

 

[AsRock]

NVIDIA: Don't Expect Base 20-Series Pricing to Be Available or even reasonable at Launch

Most likley priced high so they can sell their old stuff at a much higher cost. feel sorry for those who actually want a good video card.

 

[LFaWolf]

Zero to negligible increase, especially since everyone has AIB cards. And we know clocks don't do much for paxwellvolturing.

Citation required for "new".

paxwellvolturing? What are you talking about? What does AIB have to do with new architecture?

 

[TheGuruStud]

paxwellvolturing? What are you talking about? What does AIB have to do with new architecture?

1080ti boost clocks are 18-1900. Sorry, no real clock increase will be had from 2080.

 

[Prima.Vera]

The GTX 1080/TI is a bargain right now

I would definitely NOT call a 500€ for a GTX 1080 vanilla card "a bargain"

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

I love a good thread drama with lots of facts!