Should I add an extra CPU fan?

[Splinterdog]

Ambient temps are important too. If the OP lives in a hot country without air conditioning, a push-pull arrangement would certainly help.

 

[Bones]

That model cooler is no longer made, you'd have to find one used if wanting that exact cooler but it's a good one.

It's clear you probrably woudn't have problems with pipes not being flat as a mounting surface - In truth that's just a cheaper way of making one but you can see the difference between the two base types which one is best.

 

[Jose Jeswin]

but isn't the direct contact heatpipes supposed to enhance cooling performance?...cooler master advertises the feature as a premium feature...same i have noticed on my asus R7 260x GPU heat sink...

 

[Vario]

The direct contact ones cool better from what I have seen but if there is any defect you can't lap it flat without ruining the heatpipes as the metal is too thin on the pipes to lap.

 

[Bones]

It's "Supposed" to but in reality it doesn't make alot of difference - More or less a marketing thing with that said.

Even if it does, still not worth all that with the issues that can be with the pipes themselves exposed like that. You also have to remember that those pipes where machined are inherently weak at that spot, if you should happen to drop it, bump it, or anything else that would push up on the pipes they could crack right open and...... That's it.

 

[Jose Jeswin]

my gpu cooler as an example.. the aluminium part in the middle of the tubes are a bit of trouble when re pasting..

 

[FreedomEclipse]

but isn't the direct contact heatpipes supposed to enhance cooling performance?...cooler master advertises the feature as a premium feature...same i have noticed on my asus R7 260x GPU heat sink...

DirectTouch heatpipes have been an industry gimmick for years. Im sure they help but if you look at high end coolers from Noctua like the D14 and D15 or Cryorig with R1 you will see that they dont use DirectTouch heatpipes.

I remember back in the skt 775 days when i had an OCZ Vendetta 2 CPU cooler that had these direct touch heatpipes.

 

[Jose Jeswin]

still using socket 775...everyday workhorse pc...cooled with a cooler master tx 3 evo.... with some strange type of direct contact plate..

 

[dirtyferret]

Pointless on this cooler. If you want extra cooling performance, add case fans and reduce ambient temp.

That said 212 will do 8600/9600k fine, but for an OC it won't be enough. Unless you want a very mild OC.

this, I've played around the 212 and two fans and never saw a diffenerence in temps that was greater then 1c. I beleive it was maximum pc that did a similar test several years back with the exact same results.

FYI, direct heat pipes are a marketing term for cost reduction not better performance. Ever see direct heat pipes on a Noctua, Scythe, Be Quiet cooler?

 

[Vayra86]

The properties of cooling solutions are massively overstated. Most of it is so minute in the real world differences that it doesn't matter.

But, all those tiny things do add up to meaningful gaps. In some cases. That is, only the best coolers - its usually the reason they shine. Its the overall balance that is most important. You can't force heat out faster than it goes on its own, no amount of fans will do that. You can increase the heatsink surface area, you can improve the base, increase heatpipes, and that is just about it. The fan just needs to push the hot air through and out of the heatsink. The rest is all about case fans and ambient temp + humidity. About balance: an example of great balance is that a second fan is usually added to dual-stack heatsinks. Why, because they dó benefit from having the stronger airflow on that second heatsink, the first fan is too far away to get fresh air to/through it.

 

[bug]

The properties of cooling solutions are massively overstated. Most of it is so minute in the real world differences that it doesn't matter.

But, all those tiny things do add up to meaningful gaps. In some cases. That is, only the best coolers - its usually the reason they shine. Its the overall balance that is most important. You can't force heat out faster than it goes on its own, no amount of fans will do that. You can increase the heatsink surface area, you can improve the base, increase heatpipes, and that is just about it. The fan just needs to push the hot air through and out of the heatsink. The rest is all about case fans and ambient temp + humidity. About balance: an example of great balance is that a second fan is usually added to dual-stack heatsinks. Why, because they dó benefit from having the stronger airflow on that second heatsink, the first fan is too far away to get fresh air to/through it.

With the caveat not even increasing the surface makes a difference if the top of your cooler doesn't get warm (i.e. heat is exchanged by the existing surface just fine). It's all a balance game, you just need to know what you're balancing.

 

[Bones]

this, I've played around the 212 and two fans and never saw a diffenerence in temps that was greater then 1c. I beleive it was maximum pc that did a similar test several years back with the exact same results.

FYI, direct heat pipes are a marketing term for cost reduction not better performance. Ever see direct heat pipes on a Noctua, Scythe, Be Quiet cooler?

Believe it or not Scythe does have at least one that way but it's a cheaper one too. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W04C65843
You'll have to look carefully at the bottom of the cooler in the pics but it's clearly a pipe contact cooler.

For the money this one I believe is the best balance between price and performance within the Scythe family of coolers: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9ZH3S91295

Scythe makes good coolers - You guys should know by now which one of them I've been running.

 

[Vayra86]

Believe it or not Scythe does have at least one that way but it's a cheaper one too. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W04C65843
You'll have to look carefully at the bottom of the cooler in the pics but it's clearly a pipe contact cooler.

For the money this one I believe is the best balance between price and performance within the Scythe family of coolers: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9ZH3S91295

Scythe makes good coolers - You guys should know by now which one of them I've been running.

At the level of the Hyper 212 I've always been partial to Gelid myself. They offer a better fan, at least a more silent one. Yes even better than Scythe.

https://gelidsolutions.com/thermal-solutions/cpu-cooler-rev-4-tranquillo-2/

Tends to go out for about 26-30 EUR over here.

 

[bug]

Believe it or not Scythe does have at least one that way but it's a cheaper one too. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W04C65843
You'll have to look carefully at the bottom of the cooler in the pics but it's clearly a pipe contact cooler.

It's not. I've looked it up on the manufacturer's website
Unless they have several revisions out there and I looked at the wrong one.

 

[Bones]

Nice cooler - I woudn't have it because it's a direct contact type but not bad.
As for playing at the level of a Hyper 212 - You know I've already went way beyond that.

@bug That's what it looks like in the pics on that site, the pipes do appear to down to the very bottom of the base.
I could be wrong though.

 

[bug]

At the level of the Hyper 212 I've always been partial to Gelid myself. They offer a better fan, at least a more silent one. Yes even better than Scythe.

https://gelidsolutions.com/thermal-solutions/cpu-cooler-rev-4-tranquillo-2/

Tends to go out for about 26-30 EUR over here.

I've been using Arctic ever since they were called Arctic Cooling. Sure, I don't overclock much (if at all).

 

[dirtyferret]

Believe it or not Scythe does have at least one that way but it's a cheaper one too. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W04C65843
You'll have to look carefully at the bottom of the cooler in the pics but it's clearly a pipe contact cooler.

For the money this one I believe is the best balance between price and performance within the Scythe family of coolers: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9ZH3S91295

Scythe makes good coolers - You guys should know by now which one of them I've been running.

I like Scythe and actually have use their CPU fans on several of my builds including one with a CM 212+ and 212 hyper. I find all CM fans (case and CPU) to be too noisy.

 

[Bones]

I have a really old Arctic Cooling cooler and from the moment it arrived I didn't like it.
From being incredibly hard to mount, the fan being held on by some rubber "Thingys" that eventually broke, to the actual block surface itself being rough and uneven, I've stayed away from anything related to that maker eversince.
And it was supposedly a "Good" one - Clearly not from what I got.

 

[Vayra86]

I like Scythe and actually have use their CPU fans on several of my builds including one with a CM 212+ and 212 hyper. I find all CM fans (case and CPU) to be too noisy.

For midrange (40-50 EUR/$) this one is still unbeatable and has been for many years

http://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/cpu-kuehler/mugen-5-revb.html

 

[Bones]

That is a good cooler.

 

[dirtyferret]

For midrange (40-50 EUR/$) this one is still unbeatable and has been for many years

http://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/cpu-kuehler/mugen-5-revb.html

I use a noctua U12s on my main PC. It's pricier but does the job well.

 

[Vario]

this, I've played around the 212 and two fans and never saw a diffenerence in temps that was greater then 1c. I beleive it was maximum pc that did a similar test several years back with the exact same results.

Push/pull is overrated in my opinion.
I tried 2 fans on my PHTC12DX and it was hotter than running with a single fan. The best results I saw was running a single very powerful fan. I also tried running three fans on my PHTC14PE and it was the same temperature but noisier than running two fans. I also tried running a single fan on my PHTC14PE and it was only about 1 degree warmer than running two fans.

More fans doesn't make the heatsink any better. In fact, because the second fan isn't counter rotating, it can impair the efficiency of the cooler by generating turbulence. Also if you have a second fan on the backside of the heatsink and then a third fan only an inch away that is the case exhaust, you end up with a lot of turbulence without increasing throughput.

There are various tricks to getting a cooler machine that don't involve buying more fans. You pretty much have to use trial and error with each case to figure out the best way. As a general rule you don't want obstructions in front of or behind the fans. This goes for arranging your hard drives if they are behind the fans, or tucking wiring away from the path of air. I also found that removing the unused PCI slot covers reduced my graphics card temperatures. Removing grills can increase the throughput substantially and reduce the noise but are a hazard to fingers. So I don't run a rear case exhaust fan grill. If you must run grills, the best grills are the wire grills. The worst kind are the perforated mesh grills, which impair air flow substantially and generate a lot of whistle noise. I also don't run intake dust filters because I have a room with minimal dust. I blast the case out every 1 to 2 months with compressed air but there is very little dust buildup ever because I keep the room clean, don't have pets, and vacuum frequently. Most importantly I have the case on my desk, which keeps it off the floor. Keeping the case free of dust will reduce temperatures. The great thing about optimizing your case for airflow is it doesn't cost you anything and it reduces the fan noise because you need fewer fans and they run at lower RPM.


Here is an article on grill patterns: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/
Here is doyll's big megathread on how to run a cool system: https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...ing-airflow-cooler-fan-data.html#post22319249
effect of filter on airflow: https://silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?area=en&tid=wh12_008

 

[eidairaman1]

Skip the 8400, you are just limiting yourself

 

[Jose Jeswin]

Push/pull is overrated in my opinion.
I tried 2 fans on my PHTC12DX and it was hotter than running with a single fan. The best results I saw was running a single very powerful fan. I also tried running three fans on my PHTC14PE and it was the same temperature but noisier than running two fans. I also tried running a single fan on my PHTC14PE and it was only about 1 degree warmer than running two fans.

More fans doesn't make the heatsink any better. In fact, because the second fan isn't counter rotating, it can impair the efficiency of the cooler by generating turbulence. Also if you have a second fan on the backside of the heatsink and then a third fan only an inch away that is the case exhaust, you end up with a lot of turbulence without increasing throughput.

There are various tricks to getting a cooler machine that don't involve buying more fans. You pretty much have to use trial and error with each case to figure out the best way. As a general rule you don't want obstructions in front of or behind the fans. This goes for arranging your hard drives if they are behind the fans, or tucking wiring away from the path of air. I also found that removing the unused PCI slot covers reduced my graphics card temperatures. Removing grills can increase the throughput substantially and reduce the noise but are a hazard to fingers. So I don't run a rear case exhaust fan grill. If you must run grills, the best grills are the wire grills. The worst kind are the perforated mesh grills, which impair air flow substantially and generate a lot of whistle noise. I also don't run intake dust filters because I have a room with minimal dust. I blast the case out every 1 to 2 months with compressed air but there is very little dust buildup ever because I keep the room clean, don't have pets, and vacuum frequently. Most importantly I have the case on my desk, which keeps it off the floor. Keeping the case free of dust will reduce temperatures. The great thing about optimizing your case for airflow is it doesn't cost you anything and it reduces the fan noise because you need fewer fans and they run at lower RPM.


Here is an article on grill patterns: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/
Here is doyll's big megathread on how to run a cool system: https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...ing-airflow-cooler-fan-data.html#post22319249
effect of filter on airflow: https://silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?area=en&tid=wh12_008

Doing the same as Vario said....some pics...

filters on front and side intakes..

 

[Vario]

between the grill and the filter combination shown below it is a miracle any air passes through. You also have a fan on your heatsink that is mere inches away from the case exhaust fan

If you need to run filters run the nylon kind, those metal filters are very restrictive.

No need to run grills on the internal fans either.

Doing the same as Vario said....some pics...

View attachment 112456

filters on front and side intakes..