NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 Founders Edition Pictured, Tested

[Xzibit]

I went back over a decade and provided 10 generations of data. Far enough is subjective, but there's plenty of data there to draw a conclusion. Rather than simply say, "You're wrong," please offer up corrections where needed.

Be prepared to get redirected to one of his facts opinions.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Be prepared to get redirected to one of his facts opinions.

As opposed to the mindless drivel that regularly comes out of you?

Research is helpful. Go look up MSRP's from reliable sources and you will find all sorts of useful information. You will also discover that the numbers in his graph are just a bit off.

 

[moproblems99]

Gotta disagree. It should be looked at like this; " What can level of performance can $350 get me today? Does it meet my needs? " While you have a good point, making comparisons to previous gen cards is fruitless as that is not going to help with a current purchase unless you're willing to buy used.

That is true when you are considering what you are actually going to buy but not when you are measuring progress between generations. I don't recall exactly and I don't care enough to look but the 1070 was either $349 or $399 MSRP launch price. If the 2060 is really $349 MSRP with 1070ti performance (which I don't believe) then the only progress this generation is RTX. People's belief of the value or RTX vary widely but RTX likely won't have much value for a view years and the 20 series will have a hard time keeping up by then.

That's for the FE direct from NVidia. Most did/do not pay anywhere near that price for an AIB model. For example mine was under $800. Yes, yes.

You got a 2080ti for under $800?

 

[lexluthermiester]

People's belief of the value or RTX vary widely but RTX likely won't have much value for a view years and the 20 series will have a hard time keeping up by then.

See, I'm one of those who like RTX. I didn't at first because there wasn't enough info to make an informed conclusion. Once that info was out there and the potential of RTX's RTRT was explored, even just a little, I saw the value of it. That was the motivation needed to get one and have fun with it.

You got a 2080ti for under $800?

2080. The 2080FE is MSRP'd at $999. The 2080tiFE is at $1199.

 

[Fouquin]

As opposed to the mindless drivel that regularly comes out of you?

Please cease the unnecessary ad-hominem attacks. There is no need to introduce personal attacks and toxicity in a debate about computer hardware.

I've already done that previously, you seem to have missed it.. Hint, look on page 3 of this thread.

Oh, I did. Is it this?

I can think of at least three other times were the percentage jump in price was comparable to this one. The Geforce 2 to Geforce 3, the FX 5X00 series to 6X00 series and the 9X00 Series to the GTX 2X0 series. And that's just NVidia. ATI had two instances where the generational price jump was huge. ATI justified it because of vertex shaders and such, as did NVidia. 3DFX did one as well. The Voodoo 2 was twice the price of the Voodoo 1.

Yes, that is still a lot of words and not a lot of actual price figures. It also doesn't say anything about how the data within the graph I posted is incorrect, as you insisted it was.

Here are the prices of older generations that I was able to gather from reviews and retail listings:

Those numbers are largely irrelevant as they show effectively the same general price scale, and have actually decreased the averaged MSRP to $517.

Go look up MSRP's from reliable sources and you will find all sorts of useful information. You will also discover that the numbers in his graph are just a bit off.

Please provide these reliable sources. All you have done thus far is act as the contrarian and provided no tangible proof of your facts. "You are wrong," is not an argument. If you have information to contribute, don't feel as though you need to hold it back. Put it out there, share it, let me be proven wrong! That's the point of the debate.

 

[bug]

There is a difference between silently not buying and saying you can't complain at all about pricing.

There is also a difference between complaining about pricing and making that the only point in every thread that has Nvidia in its title

The fact that "right and wrong don't apply to capitalism" sounds like communism with better cars.

They do, actually apply. Making money is good, losing money is bad. That's why the state has the supervisor's job

 

[lexluthermiester]

Please cease the unnecessary ad-hominem attacks. There is no need to introduce personal attacks and toxicity in a debate about computer hardware.

Thanks for the tip. And when you address everyone equally for such "attacks", I'll be all too happy to take it more seriously.

Please provide these reliable sources.

Ok. Here's just a few examples;
https://www.anandtech.com/show/537/27
https://www.anandtech.com/show/742/12
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_fx_5800_ultra_the_review,24.html
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/albatron-geforce-6800-gt-256-mb-review,1.html

These are only examples of the kind of research done when I go looking for info. People can say I talk out my backside all they want, doesn't make them correct. And not all of your numbers jive well with the info out there. Nor does it jive with what I remember from back then. Thing is, I'm not going to hold anyone's hands. If I tell you I know something and that you might be wrong, you can bet your life on the fact that I've gone looking to verify info or have personal experience(that also gets re-verified).

There is also a difference between complaining about pricing and making that the only point in every thread that has Nvidia in its title

This. Yes.

 

[moproblems99]

See, I'm one of those who like RTX. I didn't at first because there wasn't enough info to make an informed conclusion. Once that info was out there and the potential of RTX's RTRT was explored, even just a little, I saw the value of it. That was the motivation needed to get one and have fun with it.

Hey, more power to you. Since they ruined the Battlefield series, it doesn't hold a lot of value to me. When I look at RTRT, I see all the other empty promises we've been given such as mGPU. If devs haven't gotten around to a feature that would be beneficial to far more people than RTRT then I don't see how RTRT is going to take off anytime soon. 10% of users on steam have above a 1070. Let's say that the 20 series matches that (which, to me, is doubtful at this point), what incentive do developers have to spend a metric boat load of resources (assumption on my part) to implement a feature that one out of ten users will be able to use? That doesn't even account for consoles which won't be RTRT capable for this generation (also an assumption by me).

Look at Bethesda. They can't even be bothered to update their engine from something this decade. I don't think CoD's engine has had an overhaul either (also an assumption). I honestly don't care what happens with RTRT as from the videos I have seen it doesn't even look that better. I haven't seen it in person so I will hold final judgement until then. Instead of RTRT, I wish developers would spend those resources on actually finishing their games before launch.

Except MSRP, for the 2080Ti At least, is "starting at $999". So far, only ONE SINGLE card has hit that price, on offer from EVGA: The 2080 Ti Black Edition.

That's for the FE direct from NVidia. Most did/do not pay anywhere near that price for an AIB model. For example mine was under $800. Yes, yes.

2080. The 2080FE is MSRP'd at $999. The 2080tiFE is at $1199.

Ah, I was confused. You had quoted someone referring to a 2080ti starting at $999 and said you had gotten it for $800. I was going to call that a deal I would consider paying.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Ah, I was confused. You had quoted someone referring to a 2080ti starting at $999 and said you had gotten it for $800.

No worries, sometimes these conversations go all over the place and can be hard to follow..

I was going to call that a deal I would consider paying.

That'd be a deal I'd go for too!

 

[Fouquin]

Ok. Here's just a few examples;
https://www.anandtech.com/show/537/27
https://www.anandtech.com/show/742/12
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_fx_5800_ultra_the_review,24.html
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/albatron-geforce-6800-gt-256-mb-review,1.html

These are only examples of the kind of research done when I go looking for info. People can say I talk out my backside all they want, doesn't make them correct. And your numbers don't jive well with the info out there. Nor does it jive with what I remember from back then.

Those are good sources, and are ones that I referenced myself to determine prices (as shown by the chart reflecting the very same values). I also referred to nVidia's product pages (when prices are listed) as well as archived retailer listings such as from Newegg and/or TigerDirect. A lot of the prices were also pulled directly from our very own GPU Database which uses information from all the aforementioned sources to provide the launch-day MSRP of a card if possible. If a specific number does not jive with you, offer up evidence to substantiate a correction. Otherwise, the values will not be changed and the debate will continue along using the alleged incorrect values.

Regardless, only a single instance of a price decrease across two generations is sufficient to disprove your presented fact of, "Every generation of new GPUs get a price increase."

Thing is, I'm not going to hold anyone's hands. If I tell you I know something and that you might be wrong, you can bet your life on the fact that I've gone looking to verify info or have personal experience(that also gets re-verified).

That's all well and good, but you also made a completely false statement presented as fact that was incredibly easy to disprove by the very same research. I can only trust your knowledge by what you say, and when you say something which is false that trust is shaken and becomes uncertain. As it stands, doing independent research and verification has led to exposing that actual facts, something that would never happen if I had blind faith in your every word.

With all that out of the way it's clear the pricing on the 20 series GPUs is a rare case of substantial increase over the historical average. Since it has been so long since the last comparable increase, and the increase is subjectively not justifiable there has been an uproar surrounding it. That now taints the entire product line and as such continue to expect commotion when information on the 20 series continues to appear, including this news on the RTX 2060 FE.

 

[moproblems99]

No worries, sometimes these conversations go all over the place and can be hard to follow..

That'd be a deal I'd go for too!

Also, just wanted to say I wasn't trying to be a jerk when I said 'more power to you'. Gaming is supposed to fun. If you aren't enjoying it, you're doing it wrong.

 

[lexluthermiester]

"Every generation of new GPUs get a price increase."

Ok, I'll partly retract and re-qualify. Most generational transitions experience an increase. Still, this one isn't the largest jump in relative price.

That's all well and good, but you also made a completely false statement presented as fact that was incredibly easy to disprove by the very same research.

The problem with your conclusion is the following; when you compare an individual series and/or model group, there has always been an increase on one level or another. So it's not that the info I stated was false, it's more that it requires a bigger picture point of view. We could nitpick each other all day long. But hey, what would be the point beyond a bit of amusement..

Also, just wanted to say I wasn't trying to be a jerk when I said 'more power to you'.

I gotcha, no worries.

Gaming is supposed to fun. If you aren't enjoying it, you're doing it wrong.

Exactly, and that's the most important thing!

 

[Totally]

That's for the FE direct from NVidia. Most did/do not pay anywhere near that price for an AIB model. For example mine was under $800. Yes, yes.

You realize he said Ti right, direct from Nvidia those are $1,199, with AIB srp being the aforementioned $999, and quick look available ti are matching FE prices with a $100 markup on most. Where did you get this $800 2080ti?

 

[xkm1948]

You realize he said Ti right, direct from Nvidia those are $1,199, with AIB srp being the aforementioned $999, and quick look available ti are matching FE prices with a $100 markup on most. Where did you get this $800 2080ti?

He got 2080, not 2080Ti

Do you even read?

 

[GoldenX]

There is also a difference between complaining about pricing and making that the only point in every thread that has Nvidia in its title

Not my fault RTX looks like an entire i9 lineup.

 

[Totally]

He got 2080, not 2080Ti

Do you even read?

He was qouting some one referring to a 2080ti and referencing his that he didn't specific was the non-ti. Those following clarifying posts weren't present and were probably made while I wasn't double checking in case pricing had changed and hadn't taken note. So don't jump down my throat just because someone is being 'hard to follow'.

 

[Gutterbanger]

All the cards were a lot easier to get before they came out with the Ring Doorbell, Just sayin.

 

[Tsukiyomi91]

how about this... since the "teaser" data of how the RTX2060 performing as close or slightly better than the GTX1070Ti isn't reliable enough, why not let other reviewers do their work on it once the NDA is lifted, considering some might already get their hands on the card, particularly the Founders Edition of the 2060. Just stop all the complaints, laments & bantering... while leaving those folks who will take their time in reviewing said GPUs? Can we all do that so we can see how the card actually performs & not throwing opinions here & there??

 

[GoldenX]

And where is the fun in that?

 

[lexluthermiester]

And where is the fun in that?

Speculation is a ton of fun sure, but most of what has been going on in this thread has been NVidia bashing about price and supposed performance. If it were more about interesting speculation than it would be more fun.

 

[Tsukiyomi91]

Having constructive opinions are fine. Destructive ones while bashing others? Not cool & best to keep it to yourself.

 

[Renald]

Here's a set of facts;
1. Every generation of new GPU's get a price increase.
2. Every generation of GPU's offers a performance increase.
3. People always complain about said price increase while trying to minimize or ignoring the increase in performance.

I didn't read all 7 pages but I have to respond to that because you are clearly misunderstanding the situation and manipulating information.

Facts :
1 - Indeed that's a fact but there must be a cause
2 - I couldn't agree more
3 - People complain indeed, but not because the increase of price, that's where you're forgetting point n°4 which explains this point, and doesn't justify point 1 and justify complaints

So :
4 - The ratio for manufacturers of performance/cost is ALWAYS increasing because performance increase a lot, but costs don't grow that fast, and sometimes they go down when doing shrinking or renaming.


Here is an example of your logic :
1 - a Voodoo card score 1
2 - a 2080 TI card score 1000
3 - In your logic, the starting price should increase accordingly to the increase of performance

So, saying, for example that a Voodoo costs 300$ at the time (like 20 ears ago), a 2080TI should cost 300 000$ at launch. See where you're wrong dude ?
A Voodoo should maybe cost a single dollar to produce today. And so you have to take that in input for point n°1 which explain point n°3. (old ratio : 1/300 | new ratio : 1, and higher is better)

That's the same thing for many things like HDD, SSD (remember when a SSD cost 1$/GB ? with Vertex 2 for example). Remember the cost of a 8086 ? now it's a single dollar, even less and a high-end CPU which is 200000x more powerful is "only" 400$. See ? Get out of the matrix lex, you're blinded.

People are complaining because Nvidia is putting crazy prices on something easy to produce for them. End of story.
And stop with "Vote with your wallet" or "learn how to save money". I could build myself a right now with the last Threadripper or i9 + 2TB SSD + 2080Ti and don't even sense it on my accounts. It's a question of taking people for idiots and Nvidia is doing it for many years now.

 

[efikkan]

Every generation gets a price increase? Well hang up just a second there, that's not a 'fact' I've ever heard or seen presented.

View attachment 113763

You have to calculate the inflated price for a fair comparison.
8800 Ultra becomes ~$1007
8800 GTX (which launched at $649) becomes ~$811
Prices for Turing doesn't look so bad then…

 

[jabbadap]

Every generation gets a price increase? Well hang up just a second there, that's not a 'fact' I've ever heard or seen presented.

View attachment 113763

The average MSRP of a flagship nVidia GPU was set at a hair over $525 for nearly a decade, with the majority of new releases being either cheaper or the same price. The GTX 780 was the first card to buck the trend in half a decade, and the GTX 980 looked like a return to that comfortable average before the 10 series and now 20 series have cranked up the heat. Even with the migration of flagship status to 'Ti' series cards the price increase is felt at the launch of the 20 series, with the 2080 Ti's minimum cost set where the first three generations of Titans were.

I have no argument against the fact that performance increased with each generation, except for with the 9800 GTX but that was a very strange special case as the 8800 Ultra was announced after the 9800 series launched, so there's this distinct overlap of product lines that lead to the 9800 GTX taking a bit of a back seat while still being sold as the flagship product of a new generation.

So the actual fact is the 20 series breaks the trend by being the first product series in over a decade to feature an increased MSRP over a previous generation that also had an increased MSRP. It also features the highest increase in average price, as well as the highest MSRP values to date since the 8800 Ultra 11 years ago. Those facts have helped form the opinion of large group of consumers that the entire product series is overpriced.

While generally I agree with you that every generations does not have price increases. But could you add the die sizes on that chart? As pricing is not always that black and white, it's depend on different variables. By die sizes: gtx 280 was a really big chip(die shrinked really fast to smaller GTX285 with $359 msrp), Fermis were big chips but had a fierce competition, gtx780 was a big kepler, gtx980 was on the same node as gtx680 thus fair, gtx1080 was rip off without a competition, RTX 2080 is again a big chip and no competition.

 

[B-Real]

Wrong, and every benchmark showing performance numbers bare that out as fact. The 2080 cleanly beats out the 1080 and beats out 1080ti if it doesn't match it. Also RTX offers advancements Pascal can not. The 2080/2080ti and RTX Titan are the best on the market. NVidia knows this and demands a premium price for it. If you don't want to pay that price, ok, don't buy one. Settle for less.

Key word there..

Everyone is complaining about price. Is it really that expensive? And if so, is really that difficult to save money for an extra month or two?

Haha. 2 pathetic tries to defend this gen.