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Upgrade from z97 to z390

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The grass is always greener on the other side and I am extremely fickle. Ryzen gives me more than enough FPS in my games for me to be happy and also let's me do wcg better for less money I think. Now that I'm passionate about that.. the problem is everyone tells me Ryzen sucks for gaming and I start questioning my choices and get upset over it.

Go ask anyone from disqus on wccftech about the user "kittens". I was a complete mess there too. I am the dictionary definition of fickle
lol,no one says it sucks for gaming,with the exception of you saying we all do :laugh: what you should've understood from this exchange is that different people have different priorities when it comes to hardware shopping,not that ryzen sucks. neither amd nor intel have found a formula for a cpu solution that'd dominate every possible use and scenario.
 
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I'm sorry for making an idiot of myself and getting the thread off topic
well he might wait for the 3xxx in the end so your hard work could produce something to show for it actually :laugh:
 
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Guys thank you for your respectable opinions and knowledge that you have shared on AMD CPUs.

But I will never go to AMD I'm sorry with all due respect.



Do you desire the KF series because it may be cheaper (lacks iGPU)?


I forgot Vario, yes i hope 9900KF will be cheaper and from what i heard, they can use the extra dedicated part as GPU ( they call it black silicon when is unactive ) to improve the thermal of the CPU. A better heat spread and more stable overclock. Maaaaaaaybe will be cooler and OC better than the regular 9900K.
 
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Guys thank you for your respectable opinions and knowledge that you have shared on AMD CPUs.

But I will never go to AMD I'm sorry with all due respect.






I forgot Vario, yes i hope 9900KF will be cheaper and from what i heard, they can use the extra dedicated part as GPU ( they call it black silicon when is unactive ) to improve the thermal of the CPU. A better heat spread and more stable overclock. Maaaaaaaybe will be cooler and OC better than the regular 9900K.
With previous Intel CPU missing IGP, it doesn't run cooler nor does it overclock higher. Usually its about the same price too. I would just get the 9900K because the IGP can be useful for certain situations such as if you are troubleshooting a graphics card. Probably will hold its value better too.
 

SL2

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I forgot Vario, yes i hope 9900KF will be cheaper and from what i heard, they can use the extra dedicated part as GPU ( they call it black silicon when is unactive ) to improve the thermal of the CPU. A better heat spread and more stable overclock. Maaaaaaaybe will be cooler and OC better than the regular 9900K.
<My reply contains speculations>

That's a big maybe. Don't expect miracles. ;) You're looking at the hottest mainstream CPU (possibly ever) made by Intel. This is not the time to upgrade if you do it every 5 years. If you upgrade every 2 years then I wouldn't say anything.

If I was all set on Intel I'd wait until whatever 10 nm shows up. (Yeah some people here will say it's like waiting for HL3.) That i7 4790K is solid, but then again I don't know what you're using it for. :)

Intels Ice lake is supposed to be the biggest upgrade in maybe 10 years. Do you want to miss out on that?
https://www.techpowerup.com/250573/...-combine-sunny-cove-cpu-cores-with-gen11-igpu
 
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If Ryzen 3000 comes out and Intel loses the gaming leadership, I would like to see you eating your words please~

As much as I would like to see a competitive market place, AMD has a mindshare issue. Among the uninformed it's the medal thing ... everyone remembers who won the gold medal but no one remembers the silver, that guy / gal never makes the cover of the Wheaties box and they don't make the magazine covers and talk shows. But the other side of it has nothing to do with bias, but their own actions.

HBM is gonna change everything
Mantle is gonna change everything
More cores is gonna change everything

Now for the loyal brand followers, whether it be MoBo brands, CPU brands, GFX Card brands, they don't see the numbers. This is the source of the "this xxx thing overclocked is almost as fast as the other brand's yyy" posts that never seem to consider the fact that the other thing can be OCd too. Or "Yeah but while it isn't as fast in the things we do everyday, it is faster in things that we almost never do". For the "hardware whores" out there that just look at the numbers, too many folks has had the itch to upgrade, waited 6 months to see if the promises pan out and when they repeatedly fail to deliver on the promises, that has an impact. Sometimes, that costs money but everytime when the promises don't pan out, folks get frustrated and resentment sets in. So while folks used to be content waiting to see what happens, past disappointments from letting that itch go unscratched so long "for nothing" has made that much less of a popular option.

I don't think it's a "Ryzen sucks for gaming thing" given the choice, if ya live in a city with two sports teams .... (Jets / Giants ... Mets / Yankees ... Knicks / Nets ... Rangers / Islanders) outside the life long fans, the tickets everyone wants are the ones with a shot at the title. If ya go to the souvenier stand, you won't find a giant foam finger saying "We're No. 2".\

Now with that out of the way to the OP's questions ...

1. If ya not in a rush ... nothing wrong with waiting. Not for release tho ... we alays recommend waiting for the 2nd or 3rd steppings on componentry. Look what happened on the early 20xx series cards for example. Sometimes it's the base hardware (P67 MoBos) , sometimes it's just certain models (i.e. EVGA 970, EVGA 1060 - 1080s)

2. The approach we recommend is price out two systems, figure out the relative performance and price it out. If you will be overclocking, make sure that is accounted for. If secondary features matter, (i.e. GFX card fans off on idle, power usage, increased cost from higher temps and bigger PSUs, etc ...), make sure that is accounted for. If you will be overclocking, factor in the performance. If cost matters, forget the prices of individual components, just the total.

3. The Hardware

a) - Asus Maximus XI Gene ( micro ATX ) ... things have changed much in recent years ... up thru Z87, we were pretty much an Asus shop. Asus peformance tanked with Z87 / Z97 MoBos but came back with Z170, but then they decided to start using lower quality sound and LAN subsystems while competition did not ... then after on other manufacturer's followed suit. I understand your comfort level from the Asus "of the old days"; I am using an Asus Maximus Formula and despite waiting for the C.1 stepping which resolved many problems, it's sti;l been a horror story and tech support is now non-existent. When you call, they take a message and never call back...when you email they provide answers to questions you never asked but don't answer the ones you did. Not that MSI and Giga are all that much better.n Asus still has the most navigable BIOS. Since Z97, I'd say about 50% of our builds have had MSi, 490% Gigglebyte and 10% Asus, the latter being from the TUF series. Then there's the RoG tax which adds 450- $75 for having the RoG logo. I can say definitely that you "will not find the same things as with the ASUS boards" from 5 years ago..

My issues with this specific board are 1) reviews have not been good with cons including, Only two DIMM slots, doesn't support dual graphics cards in x8/x8 mode, No legacy SATA M.2 support, despite having only four SATA ports, Enabling CPU storage drops PCIe x16 slot to x8 mode, high RAM voltage when using the double capacity stuff. Has solid voltage regulation but it experiences extreme temps, WiFi if not usually "a thing" on a desktop, good LAN and audio subsystems. User reviews from board owners have not been good either. At $500+, I see it as far too much of a risk with no return on investment whatsoever. Before making a recommendation, I'd need to know the intended use of this build. If it's for gaming, I'd suggest something in the $150 - $200 price range.

Mini ITX seems to have been given short shrift w/ 390 with few ITX boards available and of those, none of them strike my fancy. So concur with your desire to go mATX,

MSI MPG Z390M Gaming Edge AC - DDR4 support tops out at 4500l ALC 1220, Intel I219-V, 5 fan headers, 8 + 4 pin EATX connector
Gigabyte Z390 M Gaming Aorus Pro WIFI - DDR4 support tops out at 2666, substandard Realtek ALC892, Intel GbE LAN chip, 4 fan headers, 8 + 4 pin EATX connector
Asus TUF 390M Gaming -DDR4 support tops out at 4266, ALC 1220, Intel I219-V, 5 fan headers, 8 pin EATX connector only

There's a pair of TUF MoBos from Asus in the $250 range but they are very new such that I'd rtather let someone else suffer the bleeding edge.

of those 3, have to rec0mmend the MSI ... it also has the best user reviews on newegg

b) - i7 9900 KF ( currently im waiting for the release date ) .... I see the logic, but that IGP provides a nice option for a 2nd monitor. Again, if gaming, it's very big $ spike to go from 9600k to 9900k with very, very little to be gained over 9600k / 9700k

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i5_9600K/images/relative-performance-games-1920-1080.png

c) - Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB DDR4 3200 mhz 2x8 GB <<< please give me advice for the speed i see and heard that 3200mhz is enough and in games actually you get more FPS

Some games respond to lower CAS some games respond to more speed. Most are not affected to any observable extent. Cost wise, the sweet spot is 3000 / CAS 15 or 3200 / CAS 16 better performance rings inordinate increase in pricing.

Gskill Trident Z as example
3000 / 15 costs about $115
3200 / 16 costs about $110
3300 / 16 costs about $165
3466 / 16 costs about $170
3600 / 17 costs about $165
3733 / 17 costs about $215
3866 / 18 costs about $216
4000 / 18 costs about $241
4133 / 19 costs about $215
4266 / 19 costs about $235
4400 / 19 costs about $280
4500 / 19 costs about $380

While it's not a "real value" or anything, when judging what combo makes sense, you can get an approximate relative ranking using CAS x 1000 / DDR speed... smalles numbers are better. And of course, as was said above, some games react better to lower CAS, some to higher speed and some not at all. The biggest impact in the past has been with min fps as opposed to average and in multi GPU performance.

Intels Ice lake is supposed to be the biggest upgrade in maybe 10 years. Do you want to miss out on that?

Last I read (2018/08), 10nm was anticipated for 2020 ... and with the problems / delays they have had on 14nm, I expect that has been pushed back too, Have you seen anything newer ?
 
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SL2

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Last I read (2018/08), 10nm was anticipated for 2020 ... and with the problems / delays they have had on 14nm, I expect that has been pushed back too, Have you seen anything newer ?
I know, it doesn't look good. The last thing I heard was that 10 nm Ice lake mobile is planned for the end of this year, but given that the rarely seen 10 nm Cannon lake Core i3-8121U has been on the market for 6 months, I don't find that hard to believe. The GPU is disabled, and an AMD Radeon 540 is used instead. which is odd for a budget model. Makes you wonder what issues Intel have with the graphics..

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/mini-pcs/nuc8i3cysn.html
https://geizhals.eu/intel-nuc-8-hom....html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=eu&hloc=pl&hloc=uk

Cannon lake in itself isn't that interesting, it just shows that 10 nm works in some capacity, which we already know. The question is how long it will take to make an Ice lake CPU faster than a 9900K.
The only Cannon lake review I've seen is looong, and is more interesting for those who wants to read up on Intel's delays rather than the product itself. Except for AVX512...
1551919204265.png

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13405/intel-10nm-cannon-lake-and-core-i3-8121u-deep-dive-review
 
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a) - Asus Maximus XI Gene ( micro ATX ) ... things have changed much in recent years ... up thru Z87, we were pretty much an Asus shop. Asus peformance tanked with Z87 / Z97 MoBos but came back with Z170, but then they decided to start using lower quality sound and LAN subsystems while competition did not ... then after on other manufacturer's followed suit. I understand your comfort level from the Asus "of the old days"; I am using an Asus Maximus Formula and despite waiting for the C.1 stepping which resolved many problems, it's sti;l been a horror story and tech support is now non-existent. When you call, they take a message and never call back...when you email they provide answers to questions you never asked but don't answer the ones you did. Not that MSI and Giga are all that much better.n Asus still has the most navigable BIOS. Since Z97, I'd say about 50% of our builds have had MSi, 490% Gigglebyte and 10% Asus, the latter being from the TUF series. Then there's the RoG tax which adds 450- $75 for having the RoG logo. I can say definitely that you "will not find the same things as with the ASUS boards" from 5 years ago..
ASRock has been fantastic for me, they respond to tech support in a few hours and they will actually attempt to build a duplicate system with the same components as yours (CPU, RAM, MOBO) when they test it.
 

hat

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I agree with waiting for Zen 2 at this point. It may finally overtake Intel. Or it may not. If you don't want a bajillion cores, there are going to be lessor models with less cores available. In any case, it's bound to shake things up in the CPU market, a bit. If Zen 2 fails to impress, or you still want Intel for some reason, at least the prices should be lower.

If you must buy right now, might I suggest taking a look at the 9700k instead? You still get 8 cores. You just give up HT and save $100. No HT would mean lower temps too. They'll all clock up to around the same 5GHz mark, anyway. These chips are already damn close to the limit out of the box.
 
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Sounds like he's dead set against AMD parts for his system, so maybe we should respect that choice.

To the OP: Your parts choices are good.
I have a 9900K ready to build here, but my current PC is an 8700K and it's pretty sweet for gaming and such.

I'll end up keeping both of them.
 
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I'd still consider getting the ram that is B-Die if it is the same price as the Corsair ram you selected. It overclocks a lot better than any other brand/model of ram. You can get corsair that is B die as well. You are paying a premium to have the Dominator Platinum heatsink on it, might as well have good ICs as well since thats the part that matters. Otherwise, just buy cheaper ram. It really doesn't matter much for gaming as long as its over 3200. C16 is fine. But if you are into overclocking, keep in mind B die can overclock into the upper 4000s. If overclocking and benchmarking is your thing, it would be worth it.
This site shows you which kits have it. https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/
 
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Guys know that goes against everything i said but i found some deals on z270 chipset a local store still sells some brand new Asus Maximus IX Apex for 280.- swiss francs





And on a site of small ads in my region i found a new i7 7700K CPU never used and opened with warranty valid until October 2019 for 300.- swiss francs

For RAM i will pick up something like you guys mention 3000/3200 C16.

Also i need to change the case to an ATX one mine is only micro ATX

Is it too old z270 and the 7700k? I state that so i save a lot of money and i do not have to wait for the 9900KF that costs as much as this system alone.
 
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You're wasting your money by going with yet another quad core, get the hex core at least even it it's locked. 7700k is seriously bad value & even less of an upgrade than say 8700k -> 9900k, if you're getting it dirt cheap sure go ahead but it's still not worth it IMO.
 
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I agree. The six or eight-core CPUs are much better now, and will remain so for a lot longer.
8700K is pretty sweet for the money.
 
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I agree with the last 2 post that 7700k would be a pretty big waste of an upgrade vs going with a slightly more expensive 8700k or 9700k... Your hate for AMD is much more than I originally thought if you're willing to spend that much on a dead platform over a 2700 that is substantially more future proof and probably cheaper.
 

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Another vote against the 7700k. No reason to get another quad core when you already have a 4790k.
 
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A OC'd 4790K will come close to a stock 7700K, no point in when a 2600X/8600K will beat it.
 

FireFox

The Power Of Intel
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I read just 3 or 4 posts and i noticed that as always when it comes to provide help about choosing a CPU the Thread turn into an Intel vs AMD debate, does it always has to be that way?:shadedshu:
 
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Guys know that goes against everything i said but i found some deals on z270 chipset a local store still sells some brand new Asus Maximus IX Apex for 280.- swiss francs





And on a site of small ads in my region i found a new i7 7700K CPU never used and opened with warranty valid until October 2019 for 300.- swiss francs

For RAM i will pick up something like you guys mention 3000/3200 C16.

Also i need to change the case to an ATX one mine is only micro ATX

Is it too old z270 and the 7700k? I state that so i save a lot of money and i do not have to wait for the 9900KF that costs as much as this system alone.

My opinion is I would rather have an i5 8400 than a i7 7700K. The 7700K is in reality only one generation newer than the 4790K, if you ignore the poor selling broadwell. Its the same CPU as the 6700K. The biggest innovation in the Lake architecture over Haswell besides DDR4 was really just having 6 or 8 cores instead of 4. Don't buy a quad core in 2019 if your intention is a high end gaming system. Get at-least a six core. Don't buy a Z270. Don't pay the Asus ROG tax on a 3 year old motherboard.
Don't buy 3000/3200 C16 if you can find 3000 or 3200 C14 instead for the same price, the lower latency means it has the higher quality Samsung B Die that can be overclocked to the mid 4000s easily. The C16 stuff is lower quality ICs.

I read just 3 or 4 posts and i noticed that as always when it comes to provide help about choosing a CPU the Thread turn into an Intel vs AMD debate, does it always has to be that way?:shadedshu:
:lovetpu:
 
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Vario im a big fan of the Republic of Gamers brand and Asus motherboards in general ... :clap:

Thanks guys for all the advice means alot for me. The 9900KF is close to be release and is just 60-70 swiss francs cheaper than the 9900K.

I found a ROG Maximus X APEX Z370 motherboard again brand new that is cheaper than the Z390 Gene ( my first and only choice ) for 281.- swiss francs a good deal !





The z370 chipset supports core i9 via BIOS upgrade. I will spare some money with this motherboard that also i like alot for features and design.

The rest of the Maximus z390 line is expensive and with things and others stuff that i dont need, i just want a system that performs high and overclock's well and stable.

But a question how im gonna upgrade a brand new motherboard BIOS with the 9900KF on it ? If at least will boot on the BIOS i will able to upgrade it via USB stick ( the only way to upgrade it )
 
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The z270 chipset supports core i9 via BIOS upgrade. I will spare some money with this motherboard that also i like alot for features and design.

You may wanna double check the power delivery on that board. The 9900K isn't gentle.
 
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The z270 chipset supports core i9 via BIOS upgrade. I will spare some money with this motherboard that also i like alot for features and design.

The rest of the Maximus z390 line is expensive and with things and others stuff that i dont need, i just want a system that performs high and overclock's well and stable.

But a question how im gonna upgrade a brand new motherboard BIOS with the 9900KF on it ? If at least will boot on the BIOS i will able to upgrade it via USB stick ( the only way to upgrade it )

First I want to check, you mean Z370 correct? Because Z270 requires hardware modification to support Coffeelake processors as the socket is different. I assume Z370 as you show the Maximus X, but wanted to be sure.

To update the bios
https://rog.asus.com/technology/republic-of-gamers-motherboard-innovations/usb-bios-flashback/
Since it's first introduction on the Rampage III Series motherboards, USB BIOS Flashback has become the simplest and most fail-safe method of (UEFI) BIOS updating possible. Simply drop the (UEFI) BIOS file onto a FAT32 formatted USB stick, plug it into the USB BIOS Flashback port and press the Flashback button next to it. No CPU or memory install is needed, only the ATX power connector is required.


You may wanna double check the power delivery on that board. The 9900K isn't gentle.
Maximus X Apex is a good board and should be able to run a 9900K... it was considered one of the best Z370 boards for the 8700K.
 
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I think the gene would likely overclock higher or at least more stable with a 9900k you also wouldn't have to hassle with either buying a cheap coffee lake cpu or getting a shop to update the bios for you which could also cost you more money... Asus switched up the design for better transient response on their Z390 motherboards ditching doublers. On the Z370 Apex it looks like an 8 phase with doublers on the gene you have 10 power stages grouped in 2 which makes it technically a really strong 5 phase that should outperform an 8 phase with doublers. I believe the Z390 apex is something crazy like a 16 power stage 8 phase and actually may be the best motherboard for you because it lacks igp support using those power stages for the CPU.

More info on the z390 Gene

More on the z390 Apex

maybe all this is redundant and you've already done a ton of research on these asus motherboards you love. My Asus Maximus XI Code handles a 9900k at 5.1ghz no problem and both the Z390 Gene/Apex have better Vrm.
 
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