NVIDIA: Turing Adoption Rate 45% Higher Than Pascal, 90% of Users Buying Upwards in Graphics Product Tiers

[lexluthermiester]

Said this in the other thread, it bares repeating here. That graph has a serious error, pay attention to the pie chart in the center, it should be as follows;

 

[moproblems99]

The third slide is my favorite. The only thing up is the price. The tier was the same.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The only thing up is the price.

And the performance. My 2080 kicks the crap out of the 1080 it replaced.

 

[Fluffmeister]

Looking at the February Steam survey shows the 2080 Ti already above RX Vega, and the 2070 and 2080 showing even bigger gains.

Early days, but they are selling.

 

[moproblems99]

And the performance. My 2080 kicks the crap out of the 1080 it replaced.

I'm glad you like it but I can't call 8% on average 'kicking the crap out of it' but I don't own either.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'm glad you like it but I can't call 8% on average 'kicking the crap out of it' but I don't own either.

Don't know where you are getting those averages, but they don't jive with the benchmarks I've done. The GPU is the only change made last year to my personal system and the minimum increase performance was 30%. Not one game got less than a 30% boost. The best was just over 50%. To me, that's "kicking the crap out of it".

 

[Caring1]

The third slide is my favorite. The only thing up is the price. The tier was the same.

The naming scheme was intentionally made confusing so consumers that don't want to buy a lesser card (in their mind) buy the "same tier" when in reality it is a tier higher and priced as such.

 

[moproblems99]

Don't know where you are getting those averages, but they don't jive with the benchmarks I've done. The GPU is the only change made last year to my personal system and the minimum increase performance was 30%. Not one game got less than a 30% boost. The best was just over 50%. To me, that's "kicking the crap out of it".

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_RTX_2080_Founders_Edition/33.html

EDIT: My bad, I read 1080 it as 1080 ti.

 

[lexluthermiester]

EDIT: My bad, I read 1080 it as 1080 ti.

OIC, gotcha. Yeah I had a 1080, not ti.

 

[R-T-B]

Didn't realise their stock was pushing back over 180+ again, so much for the doom and gloom there.

Sadly they are still competing with themsleves at the moment, a $699 Radeon VII competing with the 2 year old $699 1080 Ti isn't going to change things much above the mid-range, and Polaris is getting stale too now. Navi will hopefully shake things up a bit, but frankly beyond the RX 570 NV have most of the market covered already.

I hate it when it's so bad that you aren't spewing mindless propaganda...

 

[Fluffmeister]

I hate it when it's so bad that you aren't spewing mindless propaganda...

I hear you, I've literally run out of material it this point. I just sit back and watch the above discussions and laugh.

 

[R-T-B]

I hear you, I've literally run out of material it this point. I just sit back and watch the above discussions and laugh.

Kind of where I'm at only without the trollium deluxe operation you had going for a bit. I try to believe the best in people... I know I'm a gullible thing.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I try to believe the best in people... I know I'm a gullible thing an optimist.

Fixed that for you. And that's a good thing.

 

[Fluffmeister]

Kind of where I'm at only without the trollium deluxe operation you had going for a bit. I try to believe the best in people... I know I'm a gullible thing.

It's all too easy at this point sadly, but I won't give someone a hard time and get them to justify their purchases.

I've decided to take notes and go passive aggressive from now on (for future reference).

 

[SRB151]

Um...does 45% increase in revenue (i.e. profit) = 45% increase in adoption (i.e. cards sold) ?????

 

[John Naylor]

Didn't realise their stock was pushing back over 180+ again, so much for the doom and gloom there.

Sadly they are still competing with themsleves at the moment, a $699 Radeon VII competing with the 2 year old $699 1080 Ti isn't going to change things much above the mid-range, and Polaris is getting stale too now. Navi will hopefully shake things up a bit, but frankly beyond the RX 570 NV have most of the market covered already.

More appropriately, it is competing with the $500 2070, and once ya factor in relative OC ability .... (all data from TPU reviews)
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_VII/images/relative-performance_1920-1080.png
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_VII/images/relative-performance_2560-1440.png

At 1080p Radeon VII has a 1% advantage compared to the reference 2070....it overclocks 8.2% .... 100.0 x 1.082 = 108.2
At 1080p 2070 has a 1% disadvantage compared to the Radeon VII....it overclocks 8.2% .... 99.0 x 1.133 = 112,2

With both cards OC'd the 2070 (I used Zotac from TPU Review), 2070 is 37% faster @ 1080p

At 1440p Radeon VII has a 6% advantage compared to the reference 2070....it overclocks 8.2% .... 106.0 x 1.082 = 114.7
At 14400p 2070 has a 6% disadvantage compared to the Radeon VII....it overclocks 8.2% .... 94.0 x 1.133 = 106.5

Radeon VII is 7.7% faster @ 1440p

Other considerations ...

Unigen Heaven FPS: 131.0 (A) / 145.4 (N)
Peak Gaming Power: 313 watts (A) / 250 watts (N) ... A is 63 watts higher
Noise @ Load: 43 dbA (A) /35 dbA (N) ... 75% louder
Temps @ Load + OC: 76 C (A) / 69 (N) ... 7 C hotter
Cost: $700 (A) / $500 (N)
Other Considerations (1080p): I wouldn't normally see either of these as targeted for 1080p, but if that's where ya are I see several pluses for the 2070 ... a) It is slightly faster b) at this resolution just about every game in the test will allow you to drop G-Sync and use ULMB, or c) just about every game (recognizing of course that support is not there for most games at this time) when supported will have more then enough fps such that the performance penalty will still leave you well above 60 fps.
Other Considerations (1080p): At 1440p, the VII is the better card ... still I'd much rather have the ability to use ULMB than have the extra 7% performance. But if ya don't have a 144 Hz G-Sync monitor, then ya can't use ULMB so the VII makes more sense from a performance standpoint. Only the noise would keep me from going that way if i can't use ULMB anyway.

I don't understand all the negativity with the VII, it's a perty decent card in that it splits the performance wins at 1080p and 1440p with the 2070. The temperature and power differences are closer than we usually see and the noise if the only real annoyance. If we see AIB versions, AMD could improve significantly .... but still, right now, the pice is nutz .... I don't see a market for reference Radeon VIIs for more than $475 ... AIB cards, if they can improve a bit could get away with $525

Um...does 45% increase in revenue (i.e. profit) = 45% increase in adoption (i.e. cards sold) ?????

Depends on your PoV .... if you rooting for one side or the other it's significant .... if ya stockholder, none of them will care ... no doubt selling 2080 Tis at twice what must be twice what they cost to make is driving part of that.

The RTX 2070 now has 0.50% market share (36th place)
The RTX 2080 now has 0.40% market share (49th place)
The RTX 2080 Ti now has 0.21% market share (82nd place)

I don't think we'll see the 2060 pop onto the list till end of March and I think it will top the other 3 cards when it does.

By comparison ....

The RX 580 now has 0.94% market share (17th place)
The RX 480 now has 0.58% market share (29th place)
The RX 460 now has 0.35% market share (52nd place)
The RX 570 now has 0.28% market share (65th place)
The RX 470 now has 0.25% market share (68th place)
The two Vegas combine for 0.19% market share (86th place)

My eyes are crossed counting those rows, I'll bet some of those last few rankings are off. But items of concern:

a) The ridiculously priced 6 month old 2080 Ti has already outsold the two Vega cards (17 months on market) combined by a factor of > 2.5 to 1.0 ... and the 2080 by > 2.0 : 1.0
b) The are more GTX 1060 cards in use (15.88%) than all AMD cards combined (14.68 %) ... more than 10 times as many as the 480 / 580 competition.
c) AMD has only 1 card in the top 20 .... 2 in the top 50. Last month AMD had 15.3% ... that's a 4% drop in just 30 days. Intel dropped from 10.6 to 10.15% over the same period.

Methinks AMD has gotta move pricing down to push sales. The 1660 Ti, 2060 and 2070 I think will sit still for a while but i think the 208- will be $650 by May.

 

[moproblems99]

Um...does 45% increase in revenue (i.e. profit) = 45% increase in adoption (i.e. cards sold) ?????

revenue != profit

 

[Caring1]

revenue != profit

Wrong, revenue is sales or turnover, not profit.
Costs still have to be deducted from that initial figure.
Also increase in revenue does not equate to an increase in product adoption, it can reflect many things.

 

[John Naylor]

Revenue and profit are two different things .... For example... when they were in the console market, nVidia had loads of revenue (tons were sold) but very little to no profit (made tiny profit). Now AMD is in the same boat. You buy hot dogs, rolls, trimmings buy ya propane, pay off ya cart and you break even at $1.50 ... so you sell at $2.00 ... that's 33% profit. You sell 1,000 digs, that's revenue of $2,000 and $666.67 profit,

The a competitor starts competing with you selling at $1.50 ... that attracts loads of customers ... and you sell 3,000 dogs for $4500 revenue but $0 profit.

Right now the profit margin on the 2080 Ti gotta be 100% ... the 20160 / 1660 Ti much larger revnue, must smaller profit margin.

 

[Onemanlan]

Ha! this is some soopa doopa balony even by Nvidias low standards for reporting factual information.

How about they publish data on the volume of actual 'units' sold with Pascal VS Turing?

 

[R-T-B]

Fixed that for you. And that's a good thing.

Depending on the situation, both may be true, but yes it is still a good thing. Thanks.

 

[64K]

Wrong, revenue is sales or turnover, not profit.
Costs still have to be deducted from that initial figure.
Also increase in revenue does not equate to an increase in product adoption, it can reflect many things.

I think he meant ≠ with the "!="

Right now the profit margin on the 2080 Ti gotta be 100%.

Granted the 2080 Ti is $500 more than the 1080 Ti on release but no one seems to know what the markup is on the 2080 Ti or how much Nvidia is selling the GPUs for to the card manufacturers. The 2080 Ti GPU is huge at 754 mm² with 18.6 billion transistors compared to the 1080 Ti GPU at 471 mm² with 11.8 billion transistors. It must surely be more expensive to manufacture. The GDDR6 VRAM is more expensive than the GDDR5X on the 1080 Ti as well.

I believe Nvidia is taking advantage of having no competition at the 2080 Ti level but I wish someone with insider info would step up and tell us by how much. Right now we have no frame of reference because there isn't anything else like the 2080 Ti to compare it with.

 

[XiGMAKiD]

Good for them but I'm not buying 2060 maybe 3060 if the price is right, also that pie chart where 48% is bigger than 50% is plain stupid

 

[Robcostyle]

Suggesting from the third picture, don’t even hope ngreedia to return to old way of pricing - presenting THIS they mean to maintain things this way only. You can blame whoever you want - ngreedia itself, slowpoke amd, hardware-junkies with no spend-money-break - but that what we have now, and I doubt something gonna change it in nearest future at all. Monopoly at it’s best.
For 5 years ngreedia kept selling their top-tier chips only for 1000$ and more, leaving bits and pieces like GM200-310, then GP102. And now they sell *104 tier chip for almost 1000 bucks. *quick reminder: how much was the GTX 560Ti?
And I’m not even mentioning other restrictions they apply in order to strict users even more - like hardware voltage limit, so you won't be able to overclock you good old 1080 Ti to the level of (2080Ti -10%). So you have to buy pricier card if you want a little more.
Best case is if amd/intel releases those things they smithing ATM - and I suppose their cards are only 30-50% of top end TU100/102 perfomance - and nvidia dropping prices only in targeded market, claiming any other, faster product of their own “exclusive, worth paying extra”.


Yeah, huge chip tier card is only >1200$ more from now on. Thus I’d like to ask thois junkies “How do you feel now, spending ~1500-2000$ each year or two for lower tier and 2500-5000$ For higher tier highend card? I mean any *Ti and Titan?”

 

[64K]

Suggesting from the third picture, don’t even hope ngreedia to return to old way of pricing - presenting THIS they mean to maintain things this way only. You can blame whoever you want - ngreedia itself, slowpoke amd, hardware-junkies with no spend-money-break - but that what we have now, and I doubt something gonna change it in nearest future at all. Monopoly at it’s best.
For 5 years ngreedia kept selling their top-tier chips only for 1000$ and more, leaving bits and pieces like GM200-310, then GP102. And now they sell *104 tier chip for almost 1000 bucks. *quick reminder: how much was the GTX 560Ti?
And I’m not even mentioning other restrictions they apply in order to strict users even more - like hardware voltage limit, so you won't be able to overclock you good old 1080 Ti to the level of (2080Ti -10%). So you have to buy pricier card if you want a little more.
Best case is if amd/intel releases those things they smithing ATM - and I suppose their cards are only 30-50% of top end TU100/102 perfomance - and nvidia dropping prices only in targeded market, claiming any other, faster product of their own “exclusive, worth paying extra”.


Yeah, huge chip tier card is only >1200$ more from now on. Thus I’d like to ask thois junkies “How do you feel now, spending ~1500-2000$ each year or two for lower tier and 2500-5000$ For higher tier highend card? I mean any *Ti and Titan?”

There are plenty of people that rank a card by price but technically the 2080 (non-Ti) is a midrange GPU just like the GP104, GM104, GK104 and GF104. Only the RTX 2080 Ti and RTX Titan are high end. The TU104 isn't any more high end than the GTX 460 was years ago. Yes, Nvidia now sells a midrange card for $700 to $800 and some people are paying it.