NVIDIA Responds to Tesla's In-house Full Self-driving Hardware Development

[Xzibit]

Of course I didn't

Typical. You dont have a shortage in making stuff up thats for sure.

 

[Steevo]

Which of those can boast double digit margins?


Which goddamn press release stated that was the reason, why are you people so freaking easy at making shit up?!!??

Musk, no less, told forbes Tesla's own chip was 10 times faster.
That's as direct a statement about PERFORMANCE of the chip as it gets, where did the crap about "more features" come from again??! QUOTE]

So, just like more GPU performance, allows for more eye candy..... Some things are inferred. 10X the performance in almost every metric of autonomous means faster and better performance. For example machines I work with calculate their 5D position 100 times a second and make changes according. The prior controller did it 50 times a second, and at 30MPH it makes a huge difference in on ground performance when we are aiming for centimeter level accuracy. It also allowed for more features to be added, automatic drive calibration routines, self learning algorithms that calculate fixed lag and overshoot percentages in near real time.

Also, your attitude sucks, perhaps chill out and realize others may have access to more information than you are privy to. Ask questions instead of ranting about something you may not know about

 

[Prima.Vera]

tell Huang to go have kamasutra with himself

I would pay to see this actually

 

[ratirt]

I have and I know the prices. So?

I seriously doubt you did my friend. BMW Mercedes etc. are not premium brands. Maybe back in the nineties they were but not now. These are regular cars and maybe one or two models can be considered more than average. Nothing more.

I would pay to see this actually

I'm sure you would I'd rather watch something more pleasant

 

[notb]

I seriously doubt you did my friend.

Yeah well... I don't have photos, so I guess this part of discussion is going nowhere.

BMW Mercedes etc. are not premium brands.

Now that's interesting.
What is a premium brand in your world?

Typical. You dont have a shortage in making stuff up thats for sure.

Buy why would I watch them? What's the point?
I can read as well. Reading is faster.

Why do you watch Tesla shows? What the added value for you?
It's basically turned into an Apple-like cult by now (AMD is going a similar path with their CEO-signed CPUs).

 

[Xzibit]

No offense. How is watching these shows remotely important? I can read as well. Reading is faster.

Why do you watch Tesla shows? What's the value?
It's basically turned into an Apple-like cult now (AMD is going a similar path with their CEO-signed CPUs).

To at least know whats being discuss and not come out with ridiculous comparisons with no factual basis because your too lazy or refuse to do the reading or viewing.

 

[notb]

Which of those can boast double digit margins?

?
Both Mercedes and BMW have very high margins (around 10%), whereas most car makers are happy with 5%.

Anyway, a "premium brand" is just making expensive products. It doesn't mean high profits (or any profits - like with Tesla).
Mercedes and BMW can afford an expensive Nvidia chip, because the cars are expensive and clients accept that.

The main problem with AI is that it'll have to work in cheap and small cars as well, like in a €10k Toyota Aygo, VW Polo or Fiat Panda.
Soon all new cars sold in EU will have to offer limited AI capabilities, like pedestrian detection.
Few years ago it was only available in expensive cars. Today even some models that cost €20k already have it in standard. But cheap cars are a real challenge.

To at least know whats being discuss and not come out with ridiculous comparisons with no factual basis because your too lazy or refuse to do the reading or viewing.

Everything can be found on Tesla website or news articles. I don't see the point of watching a show.
Do you watch Apple conferences?

 

[ratirt]

Yeah well... I don't have photos, so I guess this part of discussion is going nowhere.

Now that's interesting.
What is a premium brand in your world?

I think, this part of discussion is over, at least for us.
For your information there's only one world and I have no idea where you been at so far (a joke)
There's a lot of premium brands like Porsche if you want to stick to German cars. You've got others like Infinity, Jaguar, Lincoln, Genesis even Tesla and more.
Difference between BMW and what I consider premium is, no matter which model you buy, as a brand, they are all premium. With BMW or Mercedes it's not like that. They have models that are just piece of crap (most of them I think) but if you consider the top models of the two, then yeah you can consider them (models not BMW brand premium or luxury if you prefer) premium
That's what I consider a premium brand if you ask me.

 

[HwGeek]

Musk's revelations about Tesla's own AI chip development is a blow to the dominance of Nvidia's autonomous vehicle Drive platform in the automotive industry as it proves to the chipmaker's current 370 customers including Audi, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Honda, that 3 years and tens of millions of dollars of investment could bring them there as well.

This is the most important line- this is what other Company's read between the lines, and this is the main problem for Nvidia.
Nvidia just trying to push GPU's every where - even where ASIC's can be designed in relatively low budget (Ten's of millions is easy money for such big company's).

 

[medi01]

Mercedes and BMW have very high margins (around 10%),

Yay. While AMD has low margin of about 30%. Cool, eh?

The main problem with AI is that it'll have to work in cheap and small cars as well, like in a €10k Toyota Aygo, VW Polo or Fiat Panda.

The idea of a car that uses something as fragile as GPUs is ridiculous to begin with.

Soon all new cars sold in EU will have to offer limited AI capabilities, like pedestrian detection.

Most new cars already have it for years, without overpriced silicon from Huang.

Few years ago it was only available in expensive cars.

Who, the hell, told you? Ford Fiesta, Mazda have it.


Which serial car by Mercedes or BMW is using the hardware dumped by Tesla (in favor of "10 times faster" chip of their own, thank you, Jim)?

 

[Caring1]

Soon all new cars sold in EU will have to offer limited AI capabilities, like pedestrian detection.

And won't that open up a can of worms, city traffic constantly stopping for Jay walkers and nothing the driver can do except wait. Personally I'd prefer front mounted machine guns to deter pedestrian stupidity.
Give me an old car without any "driver aids" and I'm a happy man.
They are only put in place to cater for the lowest common denominator, stupid people.

 

[notb]

Yay. While AMD has low margin of about 30%. Cool, eh?

AMD's profit margin for 2018 was 5.2%.
You're looking at the wrong figure. AMD's gross profit is around 30%.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMD/amd/profit-margins

Also, comparing between different industries makes little sense.
5% profit margin is good for a car manufacturer, but not so great for a chip maker.

The idea of a car that uses something as fragile as GPUs is ridiculous to begin with.

What do you mean?
GPUs aren't made from sugar or paper. Don't worry.

Most new cars already have it for years, without overpriced silicon from Huang.

Simple, separate systems. Often as expensive options.

Lets say a car has a collision avoidance system that monitors the road ahead and a lane keeping assistant that steers the car on highways.
These 2 systems aren't talking and don't share "privileges". A collision avoidance system would have to be specifically designed to be able to avoid a crash by an evasive maneuver (e.g. Audi has that).

Move to proper autonomous cars (even level 3) means a different philosophy. You have a central system that processes all signals from sensors and controls everything in the car.
You need a lot of power for that. This is the kind of demand that Nvidia tries to answer with their Drive PX.

As for AI system suppliers: Delphi (now Aptiv) and Mobileye (now a subsidiary of Intel) are among the leaders in this
Both are offering full solutions and services.
Nvidia sells a slightly different product: a powerful inference platform. It's more expensive and you need to design the system yourself. But it's very flexible and future proof.

Who, the hell, told you? Ford Fiesta, Mazda have it.

Latest generation of Fiesta (2017) has it. The previous one AFAIR didn't. Ford Ka still doesn't. Many cars don't.

 

[medi01]

GPUs aren't made from sugar or paper.

In this context they are. No core feature you could find in cars is as fragile.

Simple, separate systems.

Yes.

Often as expensive options.

No. But it's irrelevant regardless.

Lets say a car has a collision avoidance system that monitors the road ahead and a lane keeping assistant that steers the car on highways.
These 2 systems aren't talking and don't share "privileges".

That's not how cars work.
There is a bus and there are various devices (most of them sensors) connected to it and making noise.
A number of those devices is made by different third party companies, that do not have a meaningful way to cooperate, given plethora of possible combinations available, unless someone introduces a particular standard for certain api's, which has not happened so far to my knowledge.

A collision avoidance system would have to be specifically designed to be able to avoid a crash by an evasive maneuver (e.g. Audi has that).

That's one hell of a dangerous collision avoidance system and I'd appreciate the link to the serial Audi "that has it".

Move to proper autonomous cars (even level 3) means a different philosophy.

Only Tesla (that has already killed at least 2 customers) looks like being crazy enough to put this kind of tech on a serial vehicle any time soon.

It's more expensive and you need to design the system yourself. But it's very flexible and future proof.

Funny to read it in this particular thread.

As for Audi and Co, at testing/sniffing/prototyping point, they will consider many things. Wake me up when someone decides to put overpriced green silicon into serial cars.

 

[Aquinus]

That's not how cars work.
There is a bus and there are various devices (most of them sensors) connected to it and making noise.
A number of those devices is made by different third party companies, that do not have a meaningful way to cooperate, given plethora of possible combinations available, unless someone introduces a particular standard for certain api's, which has not happened so far to my knowledge.

I liked your post, so I'll provide some supporting information, for this piece in particular. There isn't enough bandwidth on something like a CAN bus to accommodate all the data that an autonomous vehicle would require. A different system would be responsible for the operation of the vehicle, it wouldn't be intertwined with the ECU and its busses. Simply put, information like AFR and crankshaft position mean nothing to anything driving a vehicle, however something like throttle position, engine speed, and calculated acceleration might.

I suspect that for something like this to be done correctly, you would need fine-grained control over everything. So even if there is still something like a CAN bus for the engine to operate, there is likely something with far more bandwidth and a computer far more powerful to do everything else, but there would be a centralized computer/microcontroller controlling the vehicle, it wouldn't be a mish-mash of components like sensors for an engine to operate. Just my 2¢.