Wireless mice faster than wired?

[P4-630]

Spoiler

 

[TheLostSwede]

Yeah, not a trustworthy "source".

 

[delshay]

I have a question.

What will happen if you plug in a wireless mouse dongle into the PS/2 port via an adaptor? ..Note I have never tested this, I have only used a USB keyboard plug into the PS/2 port via a adaptor.

 

[blobster21]

I have a question.

What will happen if you plug in a wireless mouse dongle into the PS/2 port via an adaptor? ..Note I have never tested this, I have only used a USB keyboard plug into the PS/2 port via a adaptor.

Probably nothing. The PS/2 port could not deliver sufficient voltage/amperage to power the wireless dongle.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Rather interesting, however in my opinion it's about what mouse is more comfortable to use, wireless or not a uncomfortable mouse that doesn't naturally work well with your hand will cause far more issues than anything else, I've tried a g903 but it just wasn't for me and it was rather uncomfortable to use, I then got a rat pro x which I've found is far better for my usage. I'm not surprised latency is virtually near the same anyways.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Probably nothing. The PS/2 port could not deliver sufficient voltage/amperage to power the wireless dongle.

As long as the dongle draws less than 275mA, it might work.

Rather interesting, however in my opinion it's about what mouse is more comfortable to use, wireless or not a uncomfortable mouse that doesn't naturally work well with your hand will cause far more issues than anything else, I've tried a g903 but it just wasn't for me and it was rather uncomfortable to use, I then got a rat pro x which I've found is far better for my usage. I'm not surprised latency is virtually near the same anyways.

I was given a G900 as replacement for a faulty G700 and I have to agree, it has terrible ergonomics. One of the most uncomfortable mice I've ever used.

 

[Vayra86]

Rather interesting, however in my opinion it's about what mouse is more comfortable to use, wireless or not a uncomfortable mouse that doesn't naturally work well with your hand will cause far more issues than anything else, I've tried a g903 but it just wasn't for me and it was rather uncomfortable to use, I then got a rat pro x which I've found is far better for my usage. I'm not surprised latency is virtually near the same anyways.

So much this. That chase for a few 'ms' here and there is utterly pointless. It reminds me of the audiophile world with its 80% placebo and 15% magical elven crafting by moonlight to improve the sound quality to optimal levels... here take this 200 dollar cable too. In gaming its the exact same cheap electronics getting marketed to the moon.

There are so many factors in play wrt responsiveness and ironically, the biggest one is the player behind the screen, how well he/she has slept and how much experience he/she has. The rest is just bonus and the vast majority has no idea what they're really even looking at.

 

[dorsetknob]

As far as i am concerned Wireless mouse with flat Battery's is always Slower than wired

 

[P4-630]

As far as i am concerned Wireless mouse with flat Battery's is always Slower than wired

That's a fast fix.

 

[delshay]

As far as i am concerned Wireless mouse with flat Battery's is always Slower than wired

It does not work that way. I use the MX Master & when the battery starts to go flat you get a warning & if you don't respond after a period of time ie 10-15 mins there's a sudden cut-off. You can charge the mouse & use it at the same time, so it's just like a wired mouse. I also have the G900 mouse which will probably do the same thing, ie you get a warning when battery is low. I use the MX Master as it is fast enough for my needs & i can switch between 3 computers with just one button press on the mouse.

 

[xtreemchaos]

ive found that a cheap wired mouse is better than a good wireless mouse when playing games at least that how I feel but im quite mad .

 

[micropage7]

actually i still prefer wired but for clean setup is wireless especially when you less gaming

 

[Deleted member 158293]

Been wireless for me, especially for twitch type games where the weight & drag of the wire can slow you down. G900 here also, still a tad small for my big hands, but nice & light.

 

[Eskimonster]

i love my g900, i wont ever got back too wire.

 

[ReHWolution]

Yeah, not a trustworthy "source".

And why is that? 'cause you don't like Linus?

 

[TheLostSwede]

And why is that? 'cause you don't like Linus?

Because he doesn't know his elbow from his ass.
Take it from someone that spent the better part of a decade testing and writing about hardware.

 

[Anarchy0110]

About to get a G304/305 for wireless as well. The tech has been going up a lot for sure

 

[shovenose]

About to get a G304/305 for wireless as well. The tech has been going up a lot for sure

I like my G305!

 

[TheLostSwede]

About to get a G304/305 for wireless as well. The tech has been going up a lot for sure

What has changed? A move from 900MHz to 2.4GHz? That's more or less it...
Maybe slightly better wireless MCUs, but that's about it.

 

[ReHWolution]

Because he doesn't know his elbow from his ass.
Take it from someone that spent the better part of a decade testing and writing about hardware.

I've been reviewing hardware since I was 18, and now I'm 28, and still, I consider the approach used to make that video quite reliable. Hating on someone without any real reason is stupid.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I've been reviewing hardware since I was 18, and now I'm 28, and still, I consider the approach used to make that video quite reliable. Hating on someone without any real reason is stupid.

Good for you, but you have a lot of catching up to do. I'm old school and started reviewing gear when computer magazines were still a thing. Come back when you've done a 30+ graphics card or motherboard group test.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

His testing method does suck because it relies on GPU/monitor performance. The proper way to test this would be a custom USB device (even an Arduino would work) that intercepts the USB signal for a left mouse button click and illuminates an LED. You'd also have to disassemble the mouse to account for throw distance of the switch.

Your average wired mouse has a polling rate of 500 Hz which corresponds to 2ms. Add in, say 1ms for CPU, USB, and OS overhead and the absolute maximum latency is 3ms--well below his testing. My guess is Logitech is maybe about 4 ms (figure 1ms added because of wireless transmission).

13.8 ms = 72 fps which is terrible.

 

[Aquinus]

Honestly, I love my G602. It's pretty cheap these days which is nice and its battery life is exceptionally good. The middle mouse button likes to be a pain in the ass over time though, but this was the first wireless mouse that (to me,) didn't feel like a wireless mouse. It's got fairly good ergonomics (to me,) as it's got that same kind of shape that the G5 and G500 had, so I can't really complain.

Your average wired mouse has a polling rate of 500 Hz which corresponds to 2ms. Add in, say 1ms for CPU, USB, and OS overhead and the absolute maximum latency is 3ms--well below his testing. My guess is Logitech is maybe about 4 ms (figure 1ms added because of wireless transmission).

There is also the time it takes for the sensor in the mouse to detect that motion and to send out that information. I've found (in the past,) that a lot of mice might have a good (or even meh,) polling rates, but the sensor was just really freaking slow. Even on the G602 I have, 125Hz polling feels pretty smooth to me which is a pleasant surprise. I'll switch to 500Hz when I've playing an FPS game and the difference is (in my opinion,) pretty minor, but there are definitely other sources of delay beyond communication latency. I do think though that CPU, USB, and OS overhead might be less than 1ms. Distance isn't a huge factor and USB 2.0 latency could be as low as 125 nanoseconds for an IRQ from the USB controller to occur, so it might not bad as bad as you think on the computer side.

 

[Ferrum Master]

You'd also have to disassemble the mouse to account for throw distance of the switch.

Just record the click with a capsule mic with a trigger to GPIO port. Instantly fast. Albeit arduino or RPI tend to wobble with latency due to shared resources.

There was a RPI project also.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Yeah, not a trustworthy "source".

This is just a silly comment. Did you actually watch the video? In terms of technical accuracy for the intended and stated purpose of the test , what was wrong?

I'm old school and started reviewing gear when computer magazines were still a thing.

So? I started analyzing and comparing high-tech IS/IT electronics for the US Government (DoD) back in the early 70s. I emphasized for who because that indicates I had a duty (punishable by law - the UCMJ, to be precise) to be unbiased. And spending taxpayer's money for such very expensive equipment was one of my fiduciary responsibilities too. Does that make me a review god? Nope.

His testing method does suck because it relies on GPU/monitor performance.

Sorry, but this method is valid the stated purpose of the test was about human perception (what we "see" on a monitor) and because the same GPU and monitor (and computer) are used for each mouse. Therefore, any latency they might impose will affect/handicap any mouse in the same way. Your suggested custom USB device would impose a similar latency issue - but reveal nothing in terms of perception.

You'd also have to disassemble the mouse to account for throw distance of the switch.

Huh? They were measuring mouse movement, not switch throw distances. This video had absolutely nothing to do with mouse clicks.

Folks need to set aside their biases, prejudices, and dislikes for the messenger and look only at the content of the message.

And folks need to take a moment to understand what the tests are about!!!!! The video was about what the manufacturers claimed. And that was stated just 7 seconds in - that Logitech and Corsair claims their wireless mice are "indistinguishable" to wired mouse. That is a human perception issue Linus was testing. In fact, Linus explained this was the perception we, as human have between moving the mouse and "seeing" the movement on the monitor. So again, the claim the method sucked because it depended on the GPU and monitor is just wrong.

He was NOT doing technical measurement to determine on paper - which was better. He was just testing to see if humans could distinguish the difference. And he proved we couldn't - with the right mouse of course.