US Department of Energy debunks Arctic Silver 5?

[newtekie1]

There's a concern of pressure though...CPUs have high pressure in order to ensure no air bubbles and tight contact with the HSF. Automotive inverters (what they were testing) are no where near as tight. AS5 could preform the best at high pressure...

I think you are on to something here. AS5 is a pretty thick paste, it doesn't spread all that easily. And mounting pressure, in my experience with AS5, is very important. I even remember some heatsinks having huge bolts that pressed right down on top of the center of the CPU to just put insane amounts of mounting pressure between CPU and heatsink. Now that we have thinner pastes that spread easier, and perform just as well or better, all that junk has gone away.

 

[Athlonite]

2. AS5 requires about 7 weeks of curing at 30 hours of use per week

Well that's just BS all it takes is about 24hrs of hard run then turn off let it cool down for 30mins then do it again hard run then cool down and by hard run I'm talking anything that'll get your CPU over 45~55°C for an hour at a time gaming or PI runs whatever tickles your fancy or install F@H and just let it run for 24hrs it'll have the same effect

I think you are on to something here. AS5 is a pretty thick paste, it doesn't spread all that easily. And mounting pressure, in my experience with AS5, is very important. I even remember some heatsinks having huge bolts that pressed right down on top of the center of the CPU to just put insane amounts of mounting pressure between CPU and heatsink. Now that we have thinner pastes that spread easier, and perform just as well or better, all that junk has gone away.

Using the dot and pressure method with AS5 is the wrong way to do it a dot the size of a grain of rice and use your finger in a rubber glove to evenly spread it across the IHS for a nice thin layer is what your wanting. Doing this way I've never had an issue with temps getting to high and always had complete coverage of the IHS

 

[Vario]

Well that's just BS all it takes is about 24hrs of hard run then turn off let it cool down for 30mins then do it again hard run then cool down and by hard run I'm talking anything that'll get your CPU over 45~55°C for an hour at a time gaming or PI runs whatever tickles your fancy or install F@H and just let it run for 24hrs it'll have the same effect



Using the dot and pressure method with AS5 is the wrong way to do it a dot the size of a grain of rice and use your finger in a rubber glove to evenly spread it across the IHS for a nice thin layer is what your wanting. Doing this way I've never had an issue with temps getting to high and always had complete coverage of the IHS

Thats how I do it as well. Spread it with my finger in a plastic baggy.

 

[newtekie1]

Using the dot and pressure method with AS5 is the wrong way to do it a dot the size of a grain of rice and use your finger in a rubber glove to evenly spread it across the IHS for a nice thin layer is what your wanting. Doing this way I've never had an issue with temps getting to high and always had complete coverage of the IHS

Spreading it like that can introduce air bubbles. I've used the dot method and had complete coverage with AS5 without a problem. Even Arctic Silver themselves don't recommend the spread method on any processor with an IHS. They either recommend the line or dot method.

Not that it really matters, no one should be using AS5 these days anyway. There are better pastes for the same price.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Well that's just BS all it takes is about 24hrs of hard run then turn off let it cool down for 30mins then do it again hard run then cool down and by hard run I'm talking anything that'll get your CPU over 45~55°C for an hour at a time gaming or PI runs whatever tickles your fancy or install F@H and just let it run for 24hrs it'll have the same effect

No, he's correct. AS5 take several weeks to fully cure and reach maximum effectiveness.

Using the dot and pressure method with AS5 is the wrong way to do it a dot the size of a grain of rice and use your finger in a rubber glove to evenly spread it across the IHS for a nice thin layer is what your wanting. Doing this way I've never had an issue with temps getting to high and always had complete coverage of the IHS

Both methods work fine.

 

[remixedcat]

I saw that too! Tell me that doesn't strike you as wacky funny?

I lost it when I saw that

 

[xorbe]

Yeah I like how mayo was solidly mid pack lol. What have I learned. To choose a paste/grease that doesn't dry out.

 

[Steevo]

I lost it when I saw that

I remember the olden days if testing everything under the sun. Like mineral oil and AS5 kicked everything out, but it only lasted a couple weeks in the vertical position.

 

[freeagent]

AS5 takes 200 hours to cure. You can help it along greatly with some thermal cycles, but you will still see some change at around 200 hours.. You also shouldn't use a baggie on your finger.. bubbles, uneven spread etc.. I just use about a grain of rice in the center or slightly larger, mount your cooler, give it a bit of a titty twister and clamp it down. Good to go. Some of you guys make it out to be this terrible stuff, but really, its all in your application. Its not as forgiving as other compounds. So if you are new, you may have to experiment with your application technique. I used it almost exclusively for about 10 years, and I don't have a problem with it. I just ran out and used the Chill Factor III that came with my Thermalright coolers, and then I ran out of that and I liked it enough to try their TF8. Gotta say probably the best I've used so far.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I don't think AS5 ever really cures. It thickens with time but it should never "dry out."

I have a large tube of AS5 that I probably bought back in 2005. It's really hard to get out of the syringe but it still works.

 

[freeagent]

I didn't say anything about drying out.. I used the term "cure" because those are their words, and so is the 200 hour figure, comes from them.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Arctic Silver Incorporated - Arctic Silver 5

www.arcticsilver.com

Due to the unique shape and sizes of the particles in Arctic Silver 5's conductive matrix, it will take a up to 200 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired.

Why the heating/cooling cycles are important is because it is using thermal expansion/contraction to sinter the silver particles. Once they all found their home and sintering is complete, the thermal properties won't change for thousands of cycles...then it will slowly decline over thousands of more cycles. I don't think NERL explained why that is... but only thermoplastics don't do that.


I think I was referring to AsRock on the previous page on the "dry out" comment. I think it's not dried out...it's sintered. Think packed sand...that's pretty much what it is like. That's a good thing, not a bad thing, for something that is "99.9% silver."


Edit: Yup, this is more what I was replying to:

Not really, i just think it starts showing it age after 18 months. I do have some MX4 around to and find it about the same.

As we do not use a air conditioner temps this time of year get around 33-36c ambient in the room with the computers. Which when i notice the computer temps get a little higher than i like i will change out the paste which as resulted in improvements in temps.

The shit just dries up, and probably should be changed after 2 years anyways, in fact due to do it again soon now although video cards still good although i believe i have had it only 8 or so months since my replacement only hitting 82c on a full load even with the high ambient we have right now.

Another factor is if the computer gets moved about which mine does time to time.

I find it interesting how Arctic Silver themselves never mention sintering. Maybe they never knew it was called that and stumbled upon it?


But yeah, looping back to the NERL study, they never tested AS5 in a sintered state. That's why the thermal properties of it were way under what the manufacturer claims. AS5 wasn't intend to be tested/used like that.

 

[freeagent]

Sorry man!

 

[remixedcat]

I remember the olden days if testing everything under the sun. Like mineral oil and AS5 kicked everything out, but it only lasted a couple weeks in the vertical position.

Next will be liquid cooling with belle delphine's bathwater

 

[lexluthermiester]

Like mineral oil

Actually, I still use mineral oil for liquid cooling. You buy the right kind it works as well as water without all the downsides, but I digress...

Next will be liquid cooling with belle delphine's bathwater

Seriously? Did you really need to go there?

 

[remixedcat]

Actually, I still use mineral oil for liquid cooling. You buy the right kind it works as well as water without all the downsides, but I digress...


Seriously? Did you really need to go there?

I was required to by the government. They would have killed me if I didn't

 

[Athlonite]

it will take a up to 200 hours the two underlined words are correct if you only use your PC like an office computer (ie: email, web browsing, word or xl) where as I've found that helping it along with hard cycles of heating and then cooling cuts that 200 hours down considerably so pretty much after 24hrs I know that's going to be the temps I'm getting for 3 years or until such time I take the HSF off for cleaning

FX8320 @ 4.0GHz 1.38V + Thermolab Baram + 2 fans in push/pull + AS5 spread very thinly and thermally cycled hard (ie: 50+ C to OFF multiple times in 24hrs) = 52 Degrees C running F@H on all cores and with gaming it was cooler 45~48 degrees C

 

[lexluthermiester]

it will take a up to 200 hours the two underlined words are correct if you only use your PC like an office computer (ie: email, web browsing, word or xl) where as I've found that helping it along with hard cycles of heating and then cooling cuts that 200 hours down considerably so pretty much after 24hrs I know that's going to be the temps I'm getting for 3 years or until such time I take the HSF off for cleaning

FX8320 @ 4.0GHz 1.38V + Thermolab Baram + 2 fans in push/pull + AS5 spread very thinly and thermally cycled hard (ie: 50+ C to OFF multiple times in 24hrs) = 52 Degrees C running F@H on all cores and with gaming it was cooler 45~48 degrees C

Didn't mean to offend you, no worries. I never really worried about it. Put it on, installed the cooler, ran a quick cycle of Prime95 and if everything was cool[pun intended], I sent it out the door.

 

[Athlonite]

@lexluthermiester

No offence taken it's good to have discussion

 

[FordGT90Concept]

it will take a up to 200 hours the two underlined words are correct if you only use your PC like an office computer (ie: email, web browsing, word or xl) where as I've found that helping it along with hard cycles of heating and then cooling cuts that 200 hours down considerably so pretty much after 24hrs I know that's going to be the temps I'm getting for 3 years or until such time I take the HSF off for cleaning

FX8320 @ 4.0GHz 1.38V + Thermolab Baram + 2 fans in push/pull + AS5 spread very thinly and thermally cycled hard (ie: 50+ C to OFF multiple times in 24hrs) = 52 Degrees C running F@H on all cores and with gaming it was cooler 45~48 degrees C

There's no point to any of this with AS5. You put it on, the temperatures fall 2C to 5C during "break in" and that's really it.

AS5 is perfectly fine 10 years after install with regular use. Sintering means it degrades very slowly (doesn't even start to until 300+ cycles).

Sintered silver is actually in the negatives until it starts heading into the positives as they all pack in.

 

[biffzinker]

 

[lexluthermiester]

Phil's channel is great. He should have got the 40mm version.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Those results don't surprise me. That thermal pad product can't fill the surface pores where most of the surface contact area comes from. It also can't fill the gap if the HSF and IHS aren't perfectly flat.

 

[Aquinus]

I don't think AS5 ever really cures.

Back when I ran 6870s I did a test after swapping out the thermal compound and I found that temperatures dropped over the span of 5 heating/cooling cycles. Curing might be the wrong word for it, but something definitely happens that improves heat transfer. I can't say why this is the case, maybe the heat helps the compound spread out more or maybe there is a structural change to the compound after it has been heated and cooled several times, I don't know... but I definitely have seen with my own eyes that it takes time for AS5 to perform as it should.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Those results don't surprise me. That thermal pad product can't fill the surface pores where most of the surface contact area comes from. It also can't fill the gap if the HSF and IHS aren't perfectly flat.

Did you actually watch that video? His results were very good. Greg, over at Science Studio uses them almost exclusively because they work so well. Linus at LTT raves about them too... Not sure sure what your point here was..