HP Printers Try to Send Data Back to HP

[trparky]

Really, in the Windows 95 / 98 / Windows 2000 era we never needed any telemetry or tracking. Yet today with all the telemetry in the OS as a substitute for monitoring performance and what more the amount of BSOD's after a failed update is even bigger then back in that era.

I see that you've bought into all of the clickbaity articles that talk about how bad Windows 10 is and now incompetent Microsoft is today. Yet, as @bug pointed out, Windows today is (despite the issues) is nowhere near as bad as Windows 9x was. I remember Windows 9x would crash if you looked at the screen funny. Windows 10, despite all of the so-called articles and news of it being a dumpster fire, is in fact not anywhere as bad as it truly is. Remember, these sites need clicks, they need advertising dollars, so they write their articles about Windows 10 to make it out to have massive issues.

However, I am in no way saying that Windows 10 doesn't have issues. I agree that it does have issues; however, they're not nearly as widespread as some of the clickbaity articles would have you believe. You try writing an OS to run on just about everything from a high-end gaming machine, a cheap Dell, to a Frankenstein-box cobbled together from pieces and parts you found in your attic. Even Apple, who has vertical integration in which they own everything from how the hardware is designed to how the software is written still has issues. If Apple can't do it right 100% of the time and they own the whole platform, how do you expect Microsoft to do it right with an ecosystem with hardware and software permutations that number the stars in the night sky? That's right... you can't.

 

[bug]

^^^ I'd add to that that at any given moment, Apple only supports like 30 different configurations (desktops+laptops) and that's it. On the PC, you can get 30 different configurations by just swapping out the CPU.

 

[trparky]

^^^ I'd add to that that at any given moment, Apple only supports like 30 different configurations (desktops+laptops) and that's it. On the PC, you can get 30 different configurations by just swapping out the CPU.

That's the point I'm making. If Apple can't do it right 100% of the time on a limited number of configurations... just how the hell does anyone expect Microsoft to get it right 100% of the time on quite possibly millions of configurations? The fact that Windows runs as well as it does on such a galactically huge ecosystem is quite simply a miracle of biblical proportions.

 

[bug]

That's the point I'm making. If Apple can't do it right 100% of the time on a limited number of configurations... just how the hell does anyone expect Microsoft to get it right 100% of the time on quite possibly millions of configurations? The fact that Windows runs as well as it does on such a galactically huge ecosystem is quite simply a miracle of biblical proportions.

Not such a miracle when you look at Linux or BSD and see them running on anything from supercomputers to embedded systems
But like we both said, 95/98 don't hold a candle to 10.

 

[trparky]

Not such a miracle when you look at Linux or BSD and see them running on anything from supercomputers to embedded systems

The difference is that Windows is a general-purpose operating system, we basically expect it to run on virtually anything. Linux, however, is different. Though it can be a general-purpose OS when you need it to be, more often than not Linux is purposely built for the task at hand.

For instance, you probably wouldn't be running KDE on a supercomputer but you would on a desktop. Your average download-and-install distros of Linux like Ubuntu and Mint have general-purpose built versions of the Linux kernel. You wouldn't have that same kernel running on an Android device. The point I'm driving at is though Linux can be a general-purpose OS, it's generally custom-built for the task at hand.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

HP wants to know if you're using legitimate HP cartridges. In before they use this data to add more DRM to printer/cartridge.

Haven't bought any HP hardware in two decades and don't plan to start now. Brother has been better in every way (cheaper ink, lean drivers, cheaper initial cost, long operational life, etc.)

 

[bug]

The difference is that Windows is a general-purpose operating system, we basically expect it to run on virtually anything. Linux, however, is different. Though it can be a general-purpose OS when you need it to be, more often than not Linux is purposely built for the task at hand.

For instance, you probably wouldn't be running KDE on a supercomputer but you would on a desktop. Your average download-and-install distros of Linux like Ubuntu and Mint have general-purpose built versions of the Linux kernel. You wouldn't have that same kernel running on an Android device. The point I'm driving at is though Linux can be a general-purpose OS, it's generally custom-built for the task at hand.

You are correct, yet just offering the ability to tailor the kernel for all those purposes, makes Linux and BSD more general purpose than Windows in my book

 

[trparky]

makes Linux and BSD more general-purpose than Windows in my book

I guess that we're working on two ideas of what general-purpose means. I think general-purpose means being able to be shoehorned into service without any changes and have it run on just about anything. A "jack of all trades, expert of none" kind of thing.

 

[bug]

I guess that we're working on two ideas of what general-purpose means. I think general-purpose means being able to be shoehorned into service without any changes and have it run on just about anything. A "jack of all trades, expert of none" kind of thing.

Any desktop-oriented Linux distro will do that just fine. It won't have drivers for everything Windows does, but at the same time it will have drivers for things that are long abandoned on Windows.
But let's try to get back on topic

 

[RichF]

1) "Blah blah blah companies do far worse" = Tu quoque fallacy.

Remember, kids... running over grandma isn't okay just because someone else runs over grandma and shoots the dog.

2) It's only a paltry bit of unimportant information.

a) Imagine a giant hierarchical chart, one that tracks all of the spying that's done on a person — let's say you. Now, not only do you have to take immense pains to get enough data to create that chart, you need to memorize it or keep it at the ready which means keeping it in your mind at the expense of other things. To top it all off, you have to constantly add, subtract, and adjust the inclusions, rankings, and understandings of all of those things on that chart.

b) Meanwhile, in a different world, the same person just has all of the stuff they buy and use and it's not spying on them. They have no need of that chart, at least the huge amount of it that covers spying by electronic devices you've paid for.

If you have time and energy to waste, I suppose you can enjoy a). I think the majority of people would prefer to not be enslaved by this burden. Somehow they might prefer getting what they thought they were buying instead of a giant time/energy-sucking vortex, a burden to shoulder.

3) As has been pointed out, how benign data is on its own is one thing but how benign it is when combined with more spying is another.

4) Corporations and the people who created the concept of the corporation are masters at hiding the true price of things. When you accede to these kinds of slimy practices you are helping them to obfuscate the cost, to you and to the world.

 

[Jism]

You're doing something very, very wrong over there. Back in Windows 95/98 days, common wisdom mandated a clean OS install every year or so.

Well is'nt wisdom these days to completely do a reinstall of windows 10 now?

It's just that every company wether it's an app all the way to OS is using a form of telemetry. Do things get better ? No, at least not in my opinion. They should stick to what it's intended for, and not share contacts, voices, whatever that's completely irrelevant to the workings of a OS or app in the first place.

Adobe started to add telemetry as well. Why? Their products worked seamless in the past. And NOW it needs TM in order to have it's features running.

I'm paying for their software, and a bunch of other things as well. It still crashes tho when you load a bunch of crap compiled HTML code with weird behaviour.

Anyway: there are quite a few updates on Windows 10 causing a BSOD. What good is telemetry if one of your (beta testers, lol) cant properly get back into the OS? Here, a fresh one: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/w...etwork-adapters-not-working-update,40407.html

 

[tfdsaf]

Overreaction much? It's just anonymous data here folks, it's not nearly the same data that Facebook knows about you. Give it a rest.

It's only as anonymous as they want it to be, I bet you most of their software engineers can see most of your data, just like various companies and government agencies have been revealed to take a lot more data than advertised and even low level employees often having access to that data. In fact in the NSA even low level agents were spying on their ex gf's wife's.

Again the fact that it reads data directly from the document you are printing should send shivers down your spine, what if you were writing a market analysis, a financial report,your credit card numbers and copying that to send to your employer, business partner, spouse, etc...

Again it's only as anonymous as they want it to be. Heck even Yahoo, Google and Microsoft were caught storing user passwords in data files, not even hashing them, let alone encrypting them.

So pleasant. Still, my point stands - the data collected is not personally identifying and more importantly - HP actually states quite clearly what it's doing. It's people like you that over-react to clickbait and then get worried about your filthy porn habits being exposed.

It's only as anonymous as they want it to be, I bet you most of their software engineers can see most of your data, just like various companies and government agencies have been revealed to take a lot more data than advertised and even low level employees often having access to that data. In fact in the NSA even low level agents were spying on their ex gf's wife's.

Again the fact that it reads data directly from the document you are printing should send shivers down your spine, what if you were writing a market analysis, a financial report,your credit card numbers and copying that to send to your employer, business partner, spouse, etc...

Again it's only as anonymous as they want it to be. Heck even Yahoo, Google and Microsoft were caught storing user passwords in data files, not even hashing them, let alone encrypting them.

Overreaction much? It's just anonymous data here folks, it's not nearly the same data that Facebook knows about you. Give it a rest.

It's only as anonymous as they want it to be, I bet you most of their software engineers can see most of your data, just like various companies and government agencies have been revealed to take a lot more data than advertised and even low level employees often having access to that data. In fact in the NSA even low level agents were spying on their ex gf's wife's.

Again the fact that it reads data directly from the document you are printing should send shivers down your spine, what if you were writing a market analysis, a financial report,your credit card numbers and copying that to send to your employer, business partner, spouse, etc...

Again it's only as anonymous as they want it to be. Heck even Yahoo, Google and Microsoft were caught storing user passwords in data files, not even hashing them, let alone encrypting them.

 

[bug]

^^^ In reply to "overreaction much", you've quoted and replied the same thing twice. That'll show him

 

[R-T-B]

Windows 10, despite all of the so-called articles and news of it being a dumpster fire, is in fact not anywhere as bad as it truly is.

Comparing it to 9x is a horribly low bar. OS/2 was better than that shit.

Try anything else with the NT kernel and I think you'll find it not fairing so hot.

 

[trparky]

Try anything else with the NT kernel and I think you'll find it not fairing so hot.

I don't know, Windows XP was pretty horrible especially from a security standpoint until Service Pack 2. Vista was a straight-up dumpster fire and I think you'd be hardpressed to find anyone who wouldn't agree with that sentiment. Windows 7 was by far the best version of Windows but there are features in Windows 10 that I absolutely love and wouldn't trade for Windows 7 at all.

Windows 10 handles multiple audio devices far better than Windows 7 and we're not even getting to Bluetooth devices yet, Windows 10 handles Bluetooth headphones ten times better than Windows 7. Once a pair of Bluetooth headphones are paired to a Windows 10 system, reconnecting to them is an absolute breeze. You simply put your headphones into pairing mode, press Windows Key+K, click your device and it's done. In Windows 7 this is absolute pain, choosing which audio device to output to is also not nearly as easy. The Action Center is also a Godsend as well, notifications (much like a smartphone) go to the Action Center whether it be from your web browser or other programs on your system. Multiple monitor support is also much better on Windows 10 as well since you can put a taskbar on every monitor, not just your primary monitor.

 

[R-T-B]

I don't know, Windows XP was pretty horrible especially from a security standpoint until Service Pack 2. Vista was a straight-up dumpster fire and I think you'd be hardpressed to find anyone who wouldn't agree with that sentiment. Windows 7 was by far the best version of Windows but there are features in Windows 10 that I absolutely love and wouldn't trade for Windows 7 at all.

In terms of BSODs I can safely say things have been very low since the NT switch. Not much to write home about there.

10 has a lot of bugs. They don't bluescreen, they are just odd niggly things like registry searches crashing and settings not "sticking" as intended. If anything, it reminds me of Vista in that way more than anything... a faster, but buggier Vista.