Batman Returns

[Deleted member 178884]

Also forgot to mention one of the major design changes from broadwell to skylake:

 

[E-curbi]

Also forgot to mention one of the major design changes from broadwell to skylake:
View attachment 132665

So Intel could add more cores and keep up with AMD, no doubt.

Broadwell - E was maxed at 8core? or 10core?

My only hope is more CPU lanes and increased IPC, not certain that will happen with Comet Lake or Rocket Lake, although clock speeds are rumored to increase.

An IPC increase may have to wait until Sapphire Falls 2021. And AMD is catching up very quickly. Who knows, maybe I'll grab a Ryzen platform in 2020 if they work out the memory latency thing.

Although 64ns AMD vs 34ns Intel is a big gap to fill.

Not to mention, an AIDA 64 latency of 20.3ns lol - The Hurricane Whisperer!

 

[tabascosauz]

On the eve of X99, I was extremely excited about the X99E-ITX and what it meant for both SFF and HEDT. 4 years later, precisely no further groundbreaking change has taken place, and ASRock substituted SO-DIMMs into its X299E-ITX. Honestly, I can see why.

My plans originally included a move to HEDT after the conclusion of my studies (when I'd no longer have to fly my desktop around), specifically eyeing either the S3 or X2M. Obviously, huge wrench got tossed into those works, and Caselabs went out of business, so now I'll just continue to be invested in SFF as there aren't any high quality cases that make it worth my while to put up with going bigger again.

Personally, I think HEDT should stick to being big. Obviously, it takes big core count increases to push MSDT innovation, which AMD is currently doing, but that doesn't change the fact that a 3950X (and a 3900X, depending on how you look at it) really doesn't belong in a tiny case. The SFF circlejerk loves perpetuating the belief that "anything is possible", but it gets to a point where everything is so precariously balanced/squeezed/forced in there that the moment you try to use SFF as it's supposed to be used (on the move, go anywhere, because there would be very few reasons to spend extra money, blood and sweat to build SFF)........well, you'd better make sure you never have to troubleshoot/diagnose/fix absolutely anything in there.

And there's the 3950X. AMD had better be real aggressive in its boost limiting factors, or a lot of 4C10Ns are going to burn. HEDT from both sides prides itself on its stout power delivery, designed to specifically support high core counts and power draw of Skylake-X or TR; I can just see the legions of $100 AM4 mATX boards lining up to light on fire with a 3950X.

Yes, custom water can tame just about anything, but how many people out of the entire market really go to the hassle of putting a loop together, even if they can afford one? Everybody and their mother has an AIO these days.

Case in point: one of the first 3900X builds on PCPartPicker has a Noctua L9a sitting atop a 3900X without clock restrictions or voltage tweaks.

A L9a.

Not an L9x65 (not that a L9x65 would be much consolation). A L9a. That one puny cooler that is, in the entire product stack, the only one too small to support Secufirm2.

That little heatsink is incapable of keeping a stock 4c/8t below 90°C in stress tests. Yet, here it is, screaming for help atop a 12c/24t with a feisty boost that constantly makes idle/light load temps look like a stress test is running, even on a 120mm/140mm tower heatsink.

The justification, according to the owner, is that the computer is only responsible for only does light editing work.

I really don't know where I'm going with this. I blame the Русский Стандарт. Something to think about, I guess.

 

[E-curbi]

On the eve of X99, I was extremely excited about the X99E-ITX and what it meant for both SFF and HEDT. 4 years later, precisely no further groundbreaking change has taken place, and ASRock substituted SO-DIMMs into its X299E-ITX. Honestly, I can see why.

My plans originally included a move to HEDT after the conclusion of my studies (when I'd no longer have to fly my desktop around), specifically eyeing either the S3 or X2M. Obviously, huge wrench got tossed into those works, and Caselabs went out of business, so now I'll just continue to be invested in SFF as there aren't any high quality cases that make it worth my while to put up with going bigger again.

Personally, I think HEDT should stick to being big. Obviously, it takes big core count increases to push MSDT innovation, which AMD is currently doing, but that doesn't change the fact that a 3950X (and a 3900X, depending on how you look at it) really doesn't belong in a tiny case. The SFF circlejerk loves perpetuating the belief that "anything is possible", but it gets to a point where everything is so precariously balanced/squeezed/forced in there that the moment you try to use SFF as it's supposed to be used (on the move, go anywhere, because there would be very few reasons to spend extra money, blood and sweat to build SFF)........well, you'd better make sure you never have to troubleshoot/diagnose/fix absolutely anything in there.

And there's the 3950X. AMD had better be real aggressive in its boost limiting factors, or a lot of 4C10Ns are going to burn. HEDT from both sides prides itself on its stout power delivery, designed to specifically support high core counts and power draw of Skylake-X or TR; I can just see the legions of $100 AM4 mATX boards lining up to light on fire with a 3950X.

Yes, custom water can tame just about anything, but how many people out of the entire market really go to the hassle of putting a loop together, even if they can afford one? Everybody and their mother has an AIO these days.

Case in point: one of the first 3900X builds on PCPartPicker has a Noctua L9a sitting atop a 3900X without clock restrictions or voltage tweaks.

A L9a.

Not an L9x65 (not that a L9x65 would be much consolation). A L9a. That one puny cooler that is, in the entire product stack, the only one too small to support Secufirm2.

That little heatsink is incapable of keeping a stock 4c/8t below 90°C in stress tests. Yet, here it is, screaming for help atop a 12c/24t with a feisty boost that constantly makes idle/light load temps look like a stress test is running, even on a 120mm/140mm tower heatsink.

The justification, according to the owner, is that the computer is only responsible for only does light editing work.

I really don't know where I'm going with this. I blame the Русский Стандарт. Something to think about, I guess.

I don't think there will be a Rampage VII (7) Omega Impact or Gene for HEDT Cascade Lake, but you never know.

Had my eye on another CaseLabs S8S or Bullet BH4 for our 3year old in pink/white like CaseLabs created for Linus' little girl, buuuuut, CL out of business.

Just happy I have (2) basic test benches and lots of spare parts if something breaks or gets damaged.

 

[E-curbi]

sexpotbro, tabascobro, Tek Tip Triple X, you guys if you want keep the thread going with your builds if you like, I'll tune in and see what you're up to but I won't be posting or building or updating until we relocate FAR AWAY from these nerve-wracking hurricanes, thinking late December, to early March.

Should have some new components to chat about at that time.

Enjoy yourselves!

Peace and Love

ok, it's not funny, but it's kinda funny.

 

[E-curbi]

I'm absolutely certain PT is the National Weather Service's acronym for Post-Traumatic.

As in Post Traumatic Storm Syndrome

 

[tabascosauz]

Good luck with your move.

I'll be putting some stuff on my own thread in the next little while, but since sexpot also got a TJ08, thought I'd leave this here. I got the A14 iPPC today. It's pleasantly quiet - except at 1500rpm, where it becomes a cross between a GE90 and an exhaust-braking 6.7 B-series. No more AP181 with its maracas bearing. The problem with my old H97N-WIFI is that the SYS fan header is a little unpredictable, and sometimes the fans will just be twitching and not moving at idle. Getting the PWM speed up quickly solves the problem, but it's annoying nonetheless.



I'm not going to lie, the TJ08 hasn't really been blowing my socks off. There's zero space above the motherboard to manage Y-splitters and the 4/8-pin, the front panel is cheap and plasticky and hard to take off, and the alignment on the 5.25" bay covers is really, really pepega. So far, I haven't managed to find some semblance of symmetry for the bay covers. I wasn't expecting an M1, but for the same price of a SG08, I thought it not too unreasonable to ask at least the same "attitude" in build quality, if not the solid aluminium block that is the SG08 front panel. The nicest part of the TJ08 is the side panels.

Note to self: don't ever buy iPPC fans again if intending to mount them with screws. Regular Noctua fans are made of a fibreglass material, and iPPC sports an even harder variant. Truly a diabolical experience.

Did I mention that the 4790K draws 185W under P95 Smallest at 4.2GHz? "88W TDP". Amazing, really, just not in a good way. 3700X manages barely 105W supporting double the threads, at the same clocks, with similar temperatures under a much less capable U9S. It's crazy how far we've come.

 

[sexpot]

Good luck with your move. Same, catch you on the flip side Bruceypoo!


I'm not going to lie, the TJ08 hasn't really been blowing my socks off. There's zero space above the motherboard to manage Y-splitters and the 4/8-pin, the front panel is cheap and plasticky and hard to take off, and the alignment on the 5.25" bay covers is really, really pepega. So far, I haven't managed to find some semblance of symmetry for the bay covers. I wasn't expecting an M1, but for the same price of a SG08, I thought it not too unreasonable to ask at least the same "attitude" in build quality, if not the solid aluminium block that is the SG08 front panel. The nicest part of the TJ08 is the side panels.

Ah yes, the TJ08 does show it's age in terms of build quality when compared to other chassis in similar price point from today's standards. The screws can easily strip the covers when you take them on/off so be careful when doing so! I'm planning to connect as much as I can to the Aquaero with the help of extensions so hopefully I can nip and tuck cables out of sight. It's a tight space for sure, which is why I opt to watercool. Fortunately for me, I don't need to silence the rig to Bruce's level so I can afford some compromises in component choices to be more practical instead of function, whoo hoo.


Edit - Picked up a 120mm fan for the rear radiator.

 

[sexpot]

Whoa what the heck happened. I received some notifications on my email of thread updates then come to check and it's just my post.

 

[tabascosauz]

Whoa what the heck happened. I received some notifications on my email of thread updates then come to check and it's just my post.

 

[E-curbi]

Whoa what the heck happened. I received some notifications on my email of thread updates then come to check and it's just my post.

Your mail notification must be messed up bro.

Nobody’s posted here for ages.

 

[sexpot]

Twilight zone ooo eee oooh.

 

[E-curbi]

Tabascobro. Amazon US has the Strix X570-I Gaming motherboard just listed at $259.99USD. That's a sweet price. Yet not available until October 21st - meaning it's not yet in stock.

Newegg US has no listing yet.

It's a nice looking little board.

I'd wait out the 30-day return window and as long as everything checks out "known good" on the board remove the L-shaped heatsink cover plate and silicon isolate the two small fans. From diagrams it appears they function as X570 chipset and VRM cooling fans. Fans that tiny don't weigh anything at all. Place them on a kitchen scale, like 50grams-75grams so very easily to isolate.

It's too bad super-small fans have such a bad reputation for extremely loud operation simply because they're hard-mounted to their substrate.

These soft rubber grommets below could be used to set up a "floating bolt or floating screw" mounting design or take a blade to them and use as flat silicon washers, depending on the structure-anatomy of the fans that arrives in the box and your mounting substrate, and of course the mass and rated rpm of the fans would determine just how much noise absorption material would be needed.

I love little mods like this. To me that's what building a custom machine is all about. 30minutes and .69cents improves your overall computing experience exponentially.

...at least if you love silent to inaudible machines.

Two small fans, each a different size

 

[tabascosauz]

$259USD is pretty expensive, since I can get the X570I Aorus for $300CAD. But then again, I can't use Gigabyte boards with the C14S......U9S has actually been a happy feller though. I might try my luck with a 32GB G.skill kit soon; if that works, I don't need a new board.

I just blew my hardware budget for this month on a RTX 2060S FE last night paid a slight premium for the FE, but I don't really mind. There's no other card out there that ticks all the options, 1 x 8-pin (so no 2070S or 5700), short (Zotac Mini cools worse than FE and has dodgy warranty), and 3-year warranty (EVGA has no short cards). My 1070 is getting to the point where it needs to be in the TJ08 to "bend" it back the other way, and it's just now out of warranty after 3 years.

Gonna have pics up soon on my thread to show the U9S and 2060S.

 

[E-curbi]

$259USD is pretty expensive, since I can get the X570I Aorus for $300CAD. But then again, I can't use Gigabyte boards with the C14S......U9S has actually been a happy feller though. I might try my luck with a 32GB G.skill kit soon; if that works, I don't need a new board.

I just blew my hardware budget for this month on a RTX 2060S FE last night paid a slight premium for the FE, but I don't really mind. There's no other card out there that ticks all the options, 1 x 8-pin (so no 2070S or 5700), short (Zotac Mini cools worse than FE and has dodgy warranty), and 3-year warranty (EVGA has no short cards). My 1070 is getting to the point where it needs to be in the TJ08 to "bend" it back the other way, and it's just now out of warranty after 3 years.

Gonna have pics up soon on my thread to show the U9S and 2060S.

I’ve always gone for E-ATX boards, the least costly was the Apex X at $349, so from that pov $259 seems like a relatively good deal.

Ask Tek Tip XXX what it feels like to pay over $600 for a Rampage board, ouch, I did that only once.

Asus really can create a beautiful motherboard when they want to.

Anyhoo, whichever X570 ITX board you end up choosing, should be easy to silence the chipset fan.

Someone should produce a noise absorption material delivered from a tube that doubles as an adhesive like epoxy for super-custom applications. (lightbulb moment)

Oh wait, wonder if RTV Silicon in a tube has noise absorption properties, fans so small and lightweight - might work just fine. Woooooo

 

[tabascosauz]

I’ve always gone for E-ATX boards, the least costly was the Apex X at $349, so from that pov $259 seems like a relatively good deal.

Ask Tek Tip XXX what it feels like to pay over $600 for a Rampage board, ouch, I did that only once.

Asus really can create a beautiful motherboard when they want to.

Anyhoo, whichever X570 ITX board you end up choosing, should be easy to silence the chipset fan.

Someone should produce a noise adsorption material delivered from a tube that doubles as an adhesive like epoxy for super-custom applications. (lightbulb moment)

Oh wait, wonder if RTV Silicon in a tube has noise adsorption properties, fans so small and lightweight - might work just fine. Woooooo

To hell with the board, I'll ask the man how I can be chad enough to drop $2000 on a CPU seriously, I've never brought myself to spend more than $470 CAD on one!

I've always been used to $150-225 high end ITX boards so the recent wave of $300 boards is a little new to me.

If the B450 feels like running 2x16GB 3200/16, then we good. If it doesn't, then I'll be deciding between X570 and B550, between which the deciding factor will be whether I want TDA21472s, and more NVMe.

 

[E-curbi]

ITX SFF Custom Brown Air - Single and Slightly Threaded - HEDT Multithreaded HCC, we all took different paths, yet LOVE our tech all the same.

———

In bed all day because it’s Raft Day.

Gf likes to pretend the bed is a giant rescue raft afloat on the high seas with a rationed food and water supply she grabs from the kitchen, air conditioning and a 65in Samsung tv and we’re only allowed to leave the survival raft briefly to pee - rules of the raft.

When I questioned the practicality of such a scenario, she firmly believes all survival rafts in the future will come equipped with 65in Samsung televisions.

I only hope we get spotted by a Coast Guard helicopter before the sun goes down.

 

[sexpot]

Going to throw back to previous builds as I'm waiting for parts. Mobile alert, lotsa pics be coming!

2012 - My first venture into watercooling, guess what case?

2014 - Changeover to a Lian Li PC-A05NB.

2014 v2 - Things didn't work out with Lian Li, swapped to a Corsair 350D.

2016 - Year of the Caselabs, S8S into the picture!

2017 - Need some parallel res action, SMA8 join the party.

2018 - Lian Li makes a come back with the PC-O11.

And that wraps up my build history. 2019 will be the year where I take it back to where it started, welcome TJ08 v2!

 

[E-curbi]

@sexpot

You know my favorite is the Mercury S8S, not too small, not too big - just right!

Small enough to live comfortably on top of you desk right next to you so you can enjoy it while you work vs positioning on the floor. Big enough to house an E-ATX motherboard with a little extra breathing room left over.
Mercury S8S!

Yea, I've seen SMA8s on top of enthusiasts desktops, just looks crazy big to me, I like a low and wide overall profile (vs a tall and narrow) for some strange reason - gives me a feeling of stability or comfort vs impending disaster, I guess.

One guy in the CaseLabs forum had a really tall CL tower case and (3) pedestals mounted underneath one on top of the other, like 6.5feet tall and 10inches wide, and I told him "If you breathe too hard and that case falls over, it's gonna kill your dog"

I only moved my S8S to S8 test bench for this Batman work build, to eliminate the number of fans needed most of which were functioning only to push air in and out of an enclosure. Was looking at 7-8 fans with radiators.

And although multiple fans look gorgeous in a still photograph, living day to day with a work PC is a much different animal altogether, I just had to find a way to eliminate as much noise as possible down to the bare cooling minimum, and eventually that worked out ok by sacrificing aesthetics. lol

Build On Sexpot!

 

[tabascosauz]

Same. I love the look of the Mercurys. The squat, fat look is a signature of the Caselabs look.

@sexpot you just knew that milk-coloured coolant is my kryptonite, huh. But seriously, I could never pull off a custom loop. I hate the idea that by the time I'm done brainstorming/planning/waiting for parts/setting it up, the hardware is already obsolete. That's why I love looking at other people's work

 

[E-curbi]

Same. I love the look of the Mercurys. The squat, fat look is a signature of the Caselabs look.

@sexpot you just knew that milk-coloured coolant is my kryptonite, huh. But seriously, I could never pull off a custom loop. I hate the idea that by the time I'm done brainstorming/planning/waiting for parts/setting it up, the hardware is already obsolete. That's why I love looking at other people's work

 

[E-curbi]

Amazon US has no stock yet, but is pricing the ROG AMD X570 Crosshair VIII Impact at $429.

Wow, that's a tidy sum of money for an ITX board. Still (2) tiny fans to deal with/work with modify, no problem there. Love the Mini-DTX form factor and the fact ROG seems to always be innovating or at least trying to. Avoid mention the Z390 Maximus XI Series huge VRM disappointment along with VRM phase marketing disparities, along with NO North American availability of the M11A or M11G, at least since then the X570 ROG board selection is outstanding. Hoping for a Maximus XII Z490 Series with extremely powerful VRM sections arriving in January.

On Single Thread Performance:

No one knows if Intel will be able to find some new tweaking methodology performance boost within the SAME SAME Skylake 14(+) architecture to increase single-thread performance coinciding with the Comet Lake launch.

The 8700K/8086K Coffee Lake chips from 2017 and 2018 cannot be expected to uphold the single-thread front position forever.

The Comet Lake 10-core certainly will not be taking that lead position.

The Comet Lake 8-core maybe it can overtake the 8700K/8068K if greater efficiency and clock speeds increase as rumored to do so.

The Comet Lake 6-core would from a purely technical standpoint seems to be the prime candidate to push clock speeds higher by 100Mhz or 200Mhz, allowing a few of the higher binning CPUs to run stable for instance utilizing Siliconlottery's vast battery of testing at 5.4Ghz or 5.5Ghz, moving daily OCs into a comfortable 5.6Ghz 6c12t or 5.7Ghz 6c6t??? Unfortunately, Intel is not going to concentrate their energies or marketing strategies or internal performance binning with the 6-core chips. Internally, Intel does not want the lesser core CPUs to outperform the higher core CPUs at any level or any metric, even if lesser cores means technically higher clock speeds are more easily attainable. Same old marketing Product-Stacked by price and relevance bs we've always had to deal with.

So the 8-core Comet Lake 10700K if not soldered seems to be the greatest hope for a single-core performance improvement.

That raises another quandary, will Intel solder or paste? Yea and Geez another deep breath going nowhere. If they solder again and the 8-core Comet hits that thermal wall just as hard as the 9900K, even the 9900K 5.1Ghz high-bins, we can forget any single-thread improvement. Wait until Rocket Lake? Sapphire Falls? That's a head-shaker. I may be holding onto my 8086K for a very long time.

------

I think the Comet Lake Processor "supposedly fake" chart below was indeed produced and leaked directly by Intel to get the information out there and remain relevant during that all-eyes-on-AMD snapshot in time and yet intentionally made to appear rogue and fake as if it was not created by Intel internally, those slight alterations from norm, reverse of order, and lack of pixelation - so they could if need be claim any degree of deniability they felt necessary at a later date.

The Intel psychologists working within their marketing department are well paid and far from stupid.

Although sometimes it seems that way.


And if Intel cannot give us any single thread low latency CPU boosts until 2021, at least at minimal effort they could REPACKAGE the Optane 905P PCIe SSD cool-blue LED with overclocked controller as lower capacity 280GB and 480GB drives, more easily attainable at a much lower cost than where the $1200 and $2200 905P drives stand today. Come on Intel, the 900P 280GB capacity is 2years old next month November and so far you've given us no replacement future except after the 2nd Gen Optane Enterprise Data-Center PCIe SSDs finally move to client in late 2021. That's FOUR years without updating the 900P?

Just give us the soothing blue 905P lighting, slightly higher speeds, and slightly higher thermal efficiency at a lower cost that we can afford.

...only my humble opinion.


Soapbox Surfing at it's finest.


*Not meant to confuse. Single-thread performance per CPU above is considering manually overclocked CPUs, not the single-thread performance values at stock speeds with core boost.

 

[sexpot]

Thanks for the kudos everyone!

I noticed a reoccurring theme is that I tend to go back to previous brands as I test new builds. Hopefully, that means a future S8S can make a return. I agree with bruceypoo that it's the best case overall. Whether it be air or fully decked out watercooling, it offers great expandability! (Is that even a word?!)

The horizontal feature is my favorite, there is no GPU sagging even if you load it up with 7x single slot GPUs! A true work horse of a case should you fancy some Octane rendering! Fingers crossed for a Caselabs return in the near future.

 

[tabascosauz]

@E-curbi It just occured to me that the C8I's M.2 combo riser card may not be usable with the C14S. So unless one can make do with no NVMe (heresy!!), the Strix is the way to go.

 

[E-curbi]

@E-curbi It just occurred to me that the C8I's M.2 combo riser card may not be usable with the C14S. So unless one can make do with no NVMe (heresy!!), the Strix is the way to go.

Hmmm, wonder if the C14S's built-in physical offset would offset that issue physically.