Batman Returns

[E-curbi]

I guess the heatpipes being longer, thus more area contacting the fin stack and the air, helps the C14S. It could also be that most reviewers utilize an open air bench, much like Batman, which provides infinite intake air to the A14 and naturally removes a lot of the heat blown downwards. The D15/U14S/U12A would require good case fans to feed it directly along its airflow path to utilize its full potential. Also, while the C14S has a thin stack, it's probably the largest in terms of l x w, because the U14S is not any taller than a 120mm tower and D15 has cutouts.

Good point, well stated. I didn't think of it precisely from that most prudent aspect of reason and judicious comprehensibility.

Until now.

 

[sexpot]

Looky what the cat dragged in

 

[E-curbi]

Looky what the cat dragged in

So lucky, our cat only drags home Dell proprietary boards.

No more joking around. That M11Gene is probably the highest performing mATX board manufactured so far.

Your 4400Mhz Trident Z modules are going to love that board.

Congratulations!


...silly cat.

 

[E-curbi]

Buildzoid spends 23minutes letting us know that higher memory frequencies, tighter timings, and increased ram voltage applied in bios - increases your IMC power draw in watts.

Gee, who wudda thunk it?

That's one reason I get so happy with super-cold 8086K idle temps in the Summer (previous thread page) at 5400Mhz 6C12T since I know the 4400Mhz 17-17-17-34 1.45volts settings on the ddr4 is causing the 8086K's IMC to draw more watts and produce more heat vs memory at stock, even with CPU SpeedStep enabled, you still need to apply more voltage to CPU and memory in bios.

What's interesting in the video is The Zoid found out percent increase in IMC power draw is:

Applied ddr4 voltage in bios > Memory Frequency > Memory Timings

With changes in memory timings increasing IMC power draw the very least.

So you can tighten up your timings all day long and it's only like a 2watt delta - good to know, thank's Buildzoid.

Also, from my limited lol personal experience stay away from any ddr4 voltages over 1.5v on ambient cooling since it really doesn't help achieve any higher memory clock speeds. The Siliconlottery guy has told me this like a million times, even though the Z390 Dark's bios labels memory voltage of 1.55v and 1.6v still in the ambient non-LN2 non-extreme overclocking zone. Buildzoid and the SL guy are correct, I tried 1.6v with memory, doesn't get you anywhere, not on ambient air, AIO, or I would assume ambient water. LN2 cooling yes, the Z390 Dark's bios goes up to 2.0volts for memory overclocking using liquid nitrogen, but I'll never use those settings.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

ddr4 latency overview

Cascade Lake X

Not going to happen, Cascade Lake-X is running essentially the same memory design based on the mesh architecture, latency isn't going to drop much on the mesh bus (50ns~ at best like most of skylake-x?) and cascade lake-x is a complete fail in my opinion, same went for the 9XXX CPUs which were just soldered 7XXX cpus.

 

[E-curbi]

Not going to happen, Cascade Lake-X is running essentially the same memory design based on the mesh architecture, latency isn't going to drop much on the mesh bus (50ns~ at best like most of skylake-x?) and cascade lake-x is a complete fail in my opinion, same went for the 9XXX CPUs which were just soldered 7XXX cpus.

It's funny you mention that, the SL dood stopped binning Skylake X CPUs a few many months ago since they weren't selling well. Also looks like he won't be binning the Cascade X processors at all.

Makes me wonder why Asus ROG offers their best looking most feature-rich motherboards only for HEDT when so many more enthusiasts are interested in Mainstream - Performance platforms, from both AMD and Intel.

Really hoping for some beautiful Comet Lake Maximus XII boards much like the Crossfire VIII X570 series in about 90days or so.

I fell in love with the Rampage VI Extreme never bought it because of the slower MESH interface, but if I don't ever get to experience a PCIe shroud aesthetic cover plate, man I'm gonna pass from this world unfulfilled.

That PCIe cover shroud - so much drool!

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Makes me wonder why Asus ROG offers their best looking most feature-rich motherboards only for HEDT when so many more enthusiasts are interested in Mainstream - Performance platforms, from both AMD and Intel.

It's mostly due to the fact that mainstream platforms run fewer lanes and features in general, which leads to fewer options for high end storage / pci based storage / multi gpu etc which doesn't determine mainstream as super high end. Not having the lanes is the major issue however as it doesn't allow for most stuff to be used on a mainstream platform without dropping GPU lanes - which leads to less features being on boards which puts them "lower end" than HEDT.
HEDT is only really better than mainstream in games in ultra high resolution cases where you'll run two GPUs at 8k or something crazy with two rtx titans (x16/x16 rather than x8/x8 on mainstream) but overall the high end focus lies on the HEDT platform.
On a side note though, 4.7 + HT leads to some excellent gaming performance overall : P

http://imgur.com/fpDiScb

 

[E-curbi]

It's mostly due to the fact that mainstream platforms run fewer lanes and features in general, which leads to fewer options for high end storage / pci based storage / multi gpu etc which doesn't determine mainstream as super high end. Not having the lanes is the major issue however as it doesn't allow for most stuff to be used on a mainstream platform without dropping GPU lanes - which leads to less features being on boards which puts them "lower end" than HEDT.

We probably won’t get more CPU lanes from Intel until Sapphire Falls 2021.

Still, newcomers or anyone who utilize mostly single and slightly-threaded apps and workloads most of the time should realize HEDT is misleading terminology by Intel.

The HEDT platform will slow your work and play way down if you’re spending most of your time running single and slightly-threaded applications.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Still, newcomers or anyone who utilize mostly single and slightly-threaded apps and workloads most of the time should realize HEDT is misleading terminology by Intel.

The HEDT platform will slow your work and play way down if you’re spending most of your time running single and slightly-threaded applications.

Anything purely single threaded mainstream will win (240hz in particular) though if we're talking about the absolute highest end possible that's the only place HEDT makes sense, the 8086k would've been my second choice over this 7980xe, but I found the CPU cheap at £700 so it made more sense to me, seemingly I have a really nice bin too so once I get better cooling I'll be able to push it quite far.

 

[E-curbi]

I think the various platforms should be titled by the use-case they serve best either multi-thread or single slightly-threaded and terms like high-end mid-range mainstream and confusing marketing BS - should be left out of it.

Platform nomenclature should follow the primary function of the platform, and not some internal marketing dept’s idea of quality to the consumer.

Since for some of us, Intel’s HEDT is truly the low-end for getting work done.

 

[tabascosauz]

sexpotbro's Gene got me forgetting my bank account, again. C8 Impact and X570I Strix be looking mighty fine......maybe the I/O shield would even allow me to get a second C14S......

 

[E-curbi]

sexpotbro's Gene got me forgetting my bank account, again. C8 Impact and X570I Strix be looking mighty fine......maybe the I/O shield would even allow me to get a second C14S......

Sexpot working his magic.

He once positively influenced me to buy a Rampage V Edition 10 and a high-binned 6800K $600 and $480, respectively.

(Ok, the high-binned part was my idea)

Be careful of his talents, you’ve been warned.

 

[sexpot]

With the release of the AMD C8 Impact, I'm very hopefuly for an Intel based Maximus Impact maybe next gen? The Maximus VIII Impact was a true ITX board legend!

On second note, the plumber was out today and fixed our water closet! We went to install the washer set and found out the drain hose was too short, boohoo. I need to make a run to CAD Tire this evening and get an extension kit.

 

[E-curbi]

SIX FREE Batman Games, woooo, how could Bruce Wayne miss out on this?

Only thing is, need to create an account at EPIC Games to get the games, so there's that little tidbit.


...I'm outside trimming the bushes, geez, where is Alfred when you need him?

 

[E-curbi]

Looks pretty good in 2560x1440 for free.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

I think the various platforms should be titled by the use-case they serve best either multi-thread or single slightly-threaded and terms like high-end mid-range mainstream and confusing marketing BS - should be left out of it.

Platform nomenclature should follow the primary function of the platform, and not some internal marketing dept’s idea of quality to the consumer.

Since for some of us, Intel’s HEDT is truly the low-end for getting work done.

I guess so, though I can see why intel has laid it out the way they have.

 

[E-curbi]

I guess so, though I can see why intel has laid it out the way they have.

I tried Intel's HEDT for only about 15months, and only a 6-core 6800K high binned to 4.3Ghz not delidded, since Broadwell E was soldered. It was X99 and maybe X299 is much different, but it felt very sluggish and slow to respond from my POV. Could not get the Quad-Channel (4x8GB) memory kit to run at 3200Mhz 14CL XMP without crazy high CPU package temps at idle, like 52C 55C. Also, installed Intel's Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0 software and custom added my work apps and that did help lower the latency-increase responsiveness a small bit. Even went so far to grab my first Optane 900P PCIe SSD it was November 2017, and that also helped increase responsiveness at low QD-1, QD-2.

Also, 6800K Broadwell E still used Intel's very fast Ring Bus, when I began reading about the Mesh Bus for X299 at PCPerspective.com and other tech sites, the extremely high latency with core to core intercommunication, kinda killed my plans for a Rampage VI Extreme and 7000 Series CPU and subsequently a water loop.

Ended up simply SELLING the Rampage V Edition 10 X99 and 6800K and replaced with a Maximus X Apex motherboard and 8700K. The difference in latency/responsiveness was overwhelming.

Don't get me wrong, I got lots of work completed nicely using the X99 HEDT platform during that period, still much happier with Z370 and Z390.

Have never tried the Mesh Bus, only extrapolating from my X99 memory/experience. But from reading, it would most likely be an instant return to vender - don't believe it's for me.

Intel® Core™ Processors - View Latest Generation Core Processors

Find the latest Intel® Core™ processor family with specifications, benchmarks, features, Intel® technology, reviews, pricing, and where to buy.

www.intel.com

-------

From the small number of folks I've talked with it just doesn't seem X299 has been very popular since the 7000 Series CPUs.

We all have different experiences, mine with HEDT simply wasn't so great. Although the R5E10 motherboard was a beautiful work of art from Asus ROG. So wish I could get something that gorgeous for the Batman and still have amazing speed and responsiveness.

Also, creating your own custom Turbo Boost Technology (screenshot below) in bios works so much better than Intel's software, just sayin'

 

[tabascosauz]

I was under the impression that X99 was just a shitty, half-baked product, especially the memory controller. I watched the rollout with great interest, primarily due to the X99E-ITX, but knew in the back of my mind that the first crack at DDR4 was going to have problems.

I've been playing with the idea of getting an X570 board and dropping a 3400G into the Aorus. Still too attached to the 4790K to do it.

 

[E-curbi]

I was under the impression that X99 was just a shitty, half-baked product, especially the memory controller. I watched the rollout with great interest, primarily due to the X99E-ITX, but knew in the back of my mind that the first crack at DDR4 was going to have problems.

I've been playing with the idea of getting an X570 board and dropping a 3400G into the Aorus. Still too attached to the 4790K to do it.

Yea, I should've done more research into the Broadwell E's IMC and X99. I had no idea 3200/14 was going to present an extreme heat issue for the CPU. The Noctua C14S (my 1st at that time) actually did an ok job with 55C package temps, but I didn't want to run with those thermals all day long, ended up running a much reduced ddr4 speed and CL value for the lifetime of the platform.

This Asus ROG AMD X570 C8Impact board looks amazing:

No idea what it costs though. ROG time-staggered the launch. Save the best for last? lol

 

[Deleted member 178884]

I was under the impression that X99 was just a shitty, half-baked product, especially the memory controller. I watched the rollout with great interest, primarily due to the X99E-ITX, but knew in the back of my mind that the first crack at DDR4 was going to have problems.

This.
Bear in mind X99 was the first ddr4 based platform to exist, my RAM was originally designed for X99 and overclocks appallingly bad maxing out at about 2666 @ 14-16-16-35 CR2 1.33V....... X99 was overrated in my opinion and all the talk trying to claim 6950x is better than a 7900x for example is all nonsense.

From the small number of folks I've talked with it just doesn't seem X299 has been very popular since the 7000 Series CPUs.

Mostly due to cost and the fact AMD has a pretty good multi thread CPUs now too.

, when I began reading about the Mesh Bus for X299 at PCPerspective.com and other tech sites, the extremely high latency with core to core intercommunication, kinda killed my plans for a Rampage VI Extreme and 7000 Series CPU and subsequently a water loop.

Well you do have to bear in mind that mesh generally runs 2.7ghz at stock, or at least that's what my 7980xe does at stock and you need to get the CPU as cool as possible to push the mesh really far, I know someone running a 9980XE + X299 Omega with 5ghz / 3.2ghz mesh and he's doing 221cb~ single thread which is quite an improvement over stock - nothing super mind blowing but a CPU of this core count it's insane. The mesh bus generally does have higher latency but it's a small price to pay for the scalability of core counts and given these CPUs OC well, it doesn't matter too much to me at least.
Another thing to bear in mind is that ring runs at 3.5ghz (at least on my 6600k it does) which is quite a clock speed advantage over slug stock mesh (2.7ghz) and generally these CPUs can do up to 3.3ghz mesh. And of course it's not going to beat a 8086K in single threaded workloads but for me at least this CPU delivers both excellent gaming and productivity performance across the board (more to come when I push it further and sort out better cooling)

 

[E-curbi]

This.
Bear in mind X99 was the first ddr4 based platform to exist, my RAM was originally designed for X99 and overclocks appallingly bad maxing out at about 2666 @ 14-16-16-35 CR2 1.33V....... X99 was overrated in my opinion and all the talk trying to claim 6950x is better than a 7900x for example is all nonsense.

Mostly due to cost and the fact AMD has a pretty good multi thread CPUs now too.

Well you do have to bear in mind that mesh generally runs 2.7ghz at stock, or at least that's what my 7980xe does at stock and you need to get the CPU as cool as possible to push the mesh really far, I know someone running a 9980XE + X299 Omega with 5ghz / 3.2ghz mesh and he's doing 221cb~ single thread which is quite an improvement over stock - nothing super mind blowing but a CPU of this core count it's insane. The mesh bus generally does have higher latency but it's a small price to pay for the scalability of core counts and given these CPUs OC well, it doesn't matter too much to me at least.
Another thing to bear in mind is that ring runs at 3.5ghz (at least on my 6600k it does) which is quite a clock speed advantage over slug stock mesh (2.7ghz) and generally these CPUs can do up to 3.3ghz mesh. And of course it's not going to beat a 8086K in single threaded workloads but for me at least this CPU delivers both excellent gaming and productivity performance across the board (more to come when I push it further and sort out better cooling)

Yes that 221cb is extremely impressive for a High Core Count CPU. Another issue for me with X299 even using an Omega board (that's a beautiful board ) with the huge spread out efficient VRM section, is managing the heat. I'd like to maintain an inaudible work rig, and Coffee Lake delidded with liquid metal Conductonaut TIM and the A14 fan at 700rpm allows for that with very sweet all day long temps even at high CPU clock speeds.

If I was running multi-threaded apps all day that would be a different story altogether. Single-Slightly threaded workload is easier to manage thermally.

 

[Deleted member 178884]

Another issue for me with X299 even using an Omega board (that's a beautiful board ) with the huge spread out efficient VRM section, is managing the heat. I'd like to maintain an inaudible work rig

Yeah I love the VRMs on my board they stay nice and cool:

System has been running WCG for the past 5hrs or so now and the VRM fans sit at 5-6k rpm at most it seems (HS fan = VRM fan).
Though yeah noise is definitely a pain though you won't be running a silent and high clocked HEDT cpu, the guy running 5ghz is using a eiszeit chiller 2000, I'm going to have a shot at cranking down the noise levels once I upgrade my cooling solution and I'll let you know how that gets along : P

 

[tabascosauz]

@E-curbi you have to remember that while 5856MT/s would be outrageously high on Intel, it's meaningless on Ryzen because uclk:mclk:IF decouples from 1:1 after 3800 on good boards and even lower on shitty boards. With 2:1 IF you can go as high freq as you want on DDR4 and a 3200C14 will still prove to be quicker.

I'm looking at the Strix because it's a much better practical choice. I just can't see any reason to get the C8I:

- Impact has a ridiculous I/O area with not one but two tiny fans
- Impact I/O is even closer to the socket than Strix, possibly interfering with C14S heatpipes
- Gigabyte still has the supreme power delivery setup in X570, 8 x mindboggling TDA21472 true phase on IR35201
- Strix has the same setup as the C8I, 4x2+2 TDA21472 on Asus' rebranded IR35201 as the Impact
- Asus is making the fan do double duty on PCH and VRM having moved X570 under the shroud, so there's no reason a single fan on the Strix shouldn't be enough to cool the most efficient Powerstages known to man
- Still not thrilled about DTX, regardless of the necessity of it

TDAs are 70A max. The IR3556s in my Aorus are really good 50A PowIRs but being only 4 phase undoubled, they run a little warm. The 3553s, 3555s and 3556s have been a staple of high end OC boards for generations, but TDAs are on a whole other level entirely.

I love Gigabyte as they are pretty much the masters of power delivery, but the socket placement on the Aorus ITX boards rules out the C14S.

 

[E-curbi]

Yeah I love the VRMs on my board they stay nice and cool:
View attachment 132657
System has been running WCG for the past 5hrs or so now and the VRM fans sit at 5-6k rpm at most it seems (HS fan = VRM fan).
Though yeah noise is definitely a pain though you won't be running a silent and high clocked HEDT cpu, the guy running 5ghz is using a eiszeit chiller 2000, I'm going to have a shot at cranking down the noise levels once I upgrade my cooling solution and I'll let you know how that gets along : P

Exactly! A silent and high-clocked HEDT CPU is an oxymoron. But if you have a multi-threaded workload, that's what you need to get the job done fast.

IF on the other hand, your workload is single and slightly, then you can choose a different platform entirely.

EVGA calls VRM - PWM. I have NO IDEA why. And I have no idea what System SYS temp is referring to on the motherboard. But here's some HWiNFO64 Z390 Dark sensor data at my normal daily work bios profile.

VRM=PWM=29C
PCH=34C

Every component air-cooled.

Z390 platform temps like this I can run with all day long in a hot climate with 5400Mhz CPU and 4400Mhz ddr4, inaudible. Cannot do that with X299 HEDT.

Not sure why my ddr4 voltage is at 1.500v, don't remember doing that. Usually run it at 1.450v. Oh I know, the LUUMI DAILY OC profile preset in bios I used it as a template and it runs ddr4 at that voltage, just need to adjust it.

These are idle - just above idle values, not a stress test or anything. Pretty much work just above idle 90% of the time, with only brief time periods of super-stress on the CPU.

I'm addicted to ZIPPY keystrokes, what can I say?

 

[E-curbi]

@E-curbi you have to remember that while 5856MT/s would be outrageously high on Intel, it's meaningless on Ryzen because uclk:mclk:IF decouples from 1:1 after 3800 on good boards and even lower on shitty boards. With 2:1 IF you can go as high freq as you want on DDR4 and a 3200C14 will still prove to be quicker.

I'm looking at the Strix because it's a much better practical choice. I just can't see any reason to get the C8I:

- Impact has a ridiculous I/O area with not one but two tiny fans
- Impact I/O is even closer to the socket than Strix, possibly interfering with C14S heatpipes
- Gigabyte still has the supreme power delivery setup in X570, 8 x mindboggling TDA21472 true phase on IR35201
- Strix has the same setup as the C8I, 4x2+2 TDA21472 on Asus' rebranded IR35201 as the Impact
- Asus is making the fan do double duty on PCH and VRM having moved X570 under the shroud, so there's no reason a single fan on the Strix shouldn't be enough to cool the most efficient Powerstages known to man
- Still not thrilled about DTX, regardless of the necessity of it

TDAs are 70A max. The IR3556s in my Aorus are really good 50A PowIRs but being only 4 phase undoubled, they run a little warm. The 3553s, 3555s and 3556s have been a staple of high end OC boards for generations, but TDAs are on a whole other level entirely.

I love Gigabyte as they are pretty much the masters of power delivery, but the socket placement on the Aorus ITX boards rules out the C14S.

Yea I know bro, that 5856Mhz is only an advertisement.

There's a Buildzoid Ryzen memory analysis video a few pages back, 3800Mhz got him 64ns best latency for Ryzen 3rd gen. Still, a beautiful ITX X570 ROG motherboard if you are considering a new ITX motherboard for your Ryzen CPU.