Major Problems with newly released Acer X35 and Asus ROG SWIFT PG35VQ. Nvidia, Acer and Asus are silent about it.

[MadHiding]

How do you explain the fact that it flickers the same with OD and FALD disabled?
How do you explain the scan lines appearing when Bright images show on screen?

There isn't so-called "flicker" with OD off. If it does, you can show me the links to the footage and I can check it. I didn't notice the scanline issue.

 

[Viruzz]

There isn't so-called "flicker" with OD off. If it does, you can show me the links to the footage and I can check it. I didn't notice the scanline issue.

Open this image, press F11 in browser to go full screen, look around the image and on it, everything will look pixilated/scanlike liek effect.
Download the image, open it on your PC, dont go full screen just open it full size and drag it near the taskbar, even tad below it, the taskbar will turn scanline/pixilated [and the image too of course]
With same image grab it and move it very very slowly around the screen, look at shiny parts like water and white mountains, they will Flicker/Pulsate in/out [you can disable everything OD/FALD it doesnt matter] to see it the best lower Contrast and BRithness to 50, to defult settings, it will flicker/pulsate in both HDR and SDR, but i just tested with maximum brightness because everything so bright its hard to notice, when its on default 50 its visible to the naked eye.

P.S. The Flicker/Pulsation is not ghosting as i said its more like pulsation

https://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/snowy-village.jpg

 

[MadHiding]

Open this image, press F11 in browser to go full screen, look around the image and on it, everything will look pixilated/scanlike liek effect.
Download the image, open it on your PC, dont go full screen just open it full size and drag it near the taskbar, even tad below it, the taskbar will turn scanline/pixilated [and the image too of course]
With same image grab it and move it very very slowly around the screen, look at shiny parts like water and white mountains, they will Flicker/Pulsate in/out [you can disable everything OD/FALD it doesnt matter] to see it the best lower Contrast and BRithness to 50, to defult settings, it will flicker/pulsate in both HDR and SDR, but i just tested with maximum brightness because everything so bright its hard to notice, when its on default 50 its visible to the naked eye.

P.S. The Flicker/Pulsation is not ghosting as i said its more like pulsation

You didn't list the picture link but I know that mountain image.
The picture is moving, not static, so the overdrive will do its job to speed up the color transaction.

I notice the ghosting but that is with OD on an extreme.

With OD off, there isn't any artifact or ghosting or scanline on my monitor.
I make the point clear.

What you see is eventually caused by the overdrive.
If you have an OD off footage that is flicking, put the link and let us see it.

If you consider it a problem and bothers you much, then it is on the hardware which needs a firmware update to configure the overdrive.
My 240Hz Zowie has extreme OD, the ghosting is visible, I still using it for on ranked session.
But without the technology of OD, it will look worse.

Regarding the "scanline", if it can be seen then it is still a pixel/color transaction issue.
I don't know how that happens but it could the overdrive voltage charging on the screen in a very large area.

Overall, it is caused by overdrive/(voltage charging). Without OD, there isn't a so-called flickering.

 

[MadHiding]

Here is my footage of OD normal vs Extreme.

As you can see, the overdrive will introduce ghosting, making the movement of the tree more flashy and shaper.
As a result, you can see more clearly. It is normal on 240Hz monitor as well if OD is extreme.

 

[SystemMechanic]

Guys, I just created an account to talk about this problem.

I have a PG35VQ monitor as well as a PG27UQ. The PG35VQ is bought 3 months ago from the physical ROG store way ahead of the availability than any other online retailer.
View attachment 134149


First, the "flickering" you guys see is, in fact, ghosting/overshoot made by overdrive.
Check the link about ghosting: https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/lcd-overdrive-artifacts/

PG35VQ is certified as flicker-free by TÜV Rheinland, the monitor doesn't flicker by this standard. So you cannot persuade ASUS to address the flicker problem that is actually ghosting.

Why the flickering is more visible is due to the VA panel itself. To maintain a clear image, the overdrive is more intense and has a higher voltage.
This effect is worsened in HDR because of FALD's effect due to high brightness, overdrie will trigger the FALD and make it more visible.
I've talked about this on many occasions that VA panel is a poor choice for PG35VQ at such specs but AU Optronics couldn't produce any high refresh rate IPS panel at that time. So we get the PG35VQ. It will be PG35UQ IPS in 2 years.

All the games in monitor industries right now are bet on the panel availability.

Back to the ghosting/overshoot problem, the VA panel is more visible and you can not do anything about it.
RMA or return or receive a second-hand is all the same if you are over panic about this issue.

The only thing that can assure you guys is the E-sport 240Hz monitor have the same ghosting effect if the overdrive is set to extreme. It is less visible as both the resolution, DPI and brightness are lower than PG35VQ. Ghosting is sharper on PG35VQ. I game from 240Hz and still using it, this is a normal technology problem.

Yet this is the only kind of monitor with 1000nits, 200Hz on the planet and the ghosting issue doesn't hurt the gaming performance because you can see more clearly in motion.

Now I'm rocking 200+fps BF4 and BF5 on this monitor with a 21:9 ratio. No other monitors can reach this satisfaction except Zowie for absolute low lag experience.

Good on you if you want to keep using a defective monitor, I dont. PG35VQ and X35 have the worse G2G responses. You clearly dont know the difference between Ghosting and Flickering with actual disgusting scanlines.

What do you call these vertical line in this scenes ?

Ghosting and overshoot are completely different they dont flicker your monitor. They also dont occur when making very slow movements because the pixels are able to keep up....

You didn't list the picture link but I know that mountain image.
The picture is moving, not static, so the overdrive will do its job to speed up the color transaction.

I notice the ghosting but that is with OD on an extreme.

With OD off, there isn't any artifact or ghosting or scanline on my monitor.
I make the point clear.

What you see is eventually caused by the overdrive.
If you have an OD off footage that is flicking, put the link and let us see it.

If you consider it a problem and bothers you much, then it is on the hardware which needs a firmware update to configure the overdrive.
My 240Hz Zowie has extreme OD, the ghosting is visible, I still using it for on ranked session.
But without the technology of OD, it will look worse.

Regarding the "scanline", if it can be seen then it is still a pixel/color transaction issue.
I don't know how that happens but it could the overdrive voltage charging on the screen in a very large area.

Overall, it is caused by overdrive/(voltage charging). Without OD, there isn't a so-called flickering.

I had flickering and scanlines on mine with

Overdrive extreme, off, normal.

Fald off and other fald settings

Gsync on and off.

I dont know why you are making up false information on both reddit and on here...

There is no way in hell 4 out of 4 monitor I used would have the exact same issue.

you can see how overshoot looks like here, ghosting and overshoot dont make your whole monitor go bright and dim they stay at the same colour/brightness.

 

[MadHiding]

Good on you if you want to keep using a defective monitor, I dont. PG35VQ and X35 have the worse G2G responses. You clearly dont know the difference between Ghosting and Flickering with actual disgusting scanlines.

1st, I do see the vertical lines in your video and know what it looks like.

Ghosting and overshoot are completely different they dont flicker your monitor. They also dont occur when making very slow movements because the pixels are able to keep up....

2nd, you shouldn't steal the concept from ghosting to flickering. The ghosting still happens when moving very slowly of high contrast/ high color-shifting pictures. It happens even on a 240Hz TN monitor.

I will tell you the reason:

• As long as the high contrast/ high color-shifting picture is moving, there are slow pixel transitions.
• If the overdrive is enabled, higher voltages will be used to increase the pixel transition speed
• But more overdrive will result in ghosting effects.

You know the VA panel is known for high contrast and the response time is slower than IPS and TN. Then you should know to reduce the slower response time, the overdrive is stronger on the VA panel and the overshoot/ghosting will be more visible.

And PG35VQ is a 2ms GTG VA monitor, so you should expect a much stronger overdrive and more visible ghosting on this monitor.

I've shown you the ghosting effect in my Witcher 3 footage, and you thought that is flickering, in fact, it is just ghosting and nothing more.

I had flickering and scanlines on mine with

Overdrive extreme, off, normal.

Then you need to show us the actual flickering footage with OD OFF. I don't see your footage with OD off with flickering.

I dont know why you are making up false information on both reddit and on here...

3rd, The information is not misleading. Overdrive ghosting is common knowledge on high-end 240Hz monitor, I've discussed the ghosting effect in competitive games.

There is no way in hell 4 out of 4 monitor I used would have the exact same issue.

Now here is my thought on your scanline, the scanline happens is probably because the overdrive voltage is charging through the whole screen, which makes the vertical line appears. What I can be sure of is that this effect is eventually caused by overdrive.

The thing you need to figure out is why a large amount of overdrive will trigger the scanline, the scanline doesn't happen when you move a smaller picture or the picture is in less contrast, does it?
This should be a topic when you open a case to ASUS, one case with only one problem.
Also, as mentioned before, I think it is still caused by large overdrive or the voltage is not changing somehow.


4th, I can even show you the comparison footage if you want. My monitor doesn't have the scanline you experienced in games. If you want to compare, show me the settings and let me know.



The point I want to make is that the VA panel is known for having higher ghosting when overdrive is enabled. It doesn't matter it is PG35VQ or other high refresh rates VA panel.
When you bought this monitor in the first place, you need to think of this.

Then the monitor has you scanline issue, you need to separate the issues between actual ghosting and scanline. Don't just call it flickering, flickering is for something else.

 

[Viruzz]

I uploaded a video, Static Image flicker

 

[MadHiding]

I uploaded a video, Static Image flicker

You need to show us the settings. Is the OD on or off?
If it is off, then this is a different issue.
My monitor doesn't behave like this.

 

[Viruzz]

You need to show us the settings. Is the OD on or off?
If it is off, then this is a different issue.
My monitor doesn't behave like this.

Its static image, there is nothing for overdrive to overdrive

 

[MadHiding]

Its static image, there is nothing for overdrive to overdrive

Again, you need to show the actual OD setting in realtime in the footage.

You need not only to have a legit proof to the forum, more importantly, to ASUS so they can address the issue properly and know what is going on.

If the overdrive is busted, the voltage won't be stable. And the regulators that control the overdrive voltage might also control backlight voltage as well.

 

[Viruzz]

Again, you need to show the actual OD setting in realtime in the footage.

You need not only to have a legit proof to the forum, more importantly, to ASUS so they can address the issue properly and know what is going on.

If the overdrive is busted, the voltage won't be stable. And the regulators that control the overdrive voltage might also control backlight voltage as well.

Bro, EVERYONE has this identical issue, the guy that posted above you, people that posted on this forum, people that posted on acer forum, EVERYONE have this same issue, OD is not broken for everyone, people swaped 3-4 monitors.

 

[MadHiding]

Bro, EVERYONE has this identical issue, the guy that posted above you, people that posted on this forum, people that posted on acer forum, EVERYONE have this same issue, OD is not broken for everyone, people swaped 3-4 monitors.

What is the actual OD setting in your footage?

If you don't show the evidence, then I will assume it is still on. You turn it off, the flickering is gone.
Is that right?

If overdrive caused the issue, then you guys need to focus on a specific part.

Let's say the specific part is a large high contrast image moving while the OD is on. Then the monitor has the verticle lines/scanlines you guys observed.

But when people think the ghosting is flickering and say all the monitors are defective. That won't help you guys anywhere.
In fact, as far as you can concern, I am probably the one who can help you most. I have opened cases at ASUS and AU Optronics

So what is it? Is the OD off or ON while it is flickering in your footage?

 

[Paco572]

Mad hiding said" The thing you need to figure out is why a large amount of overdrive will trigger the scanline, the scanline doesn't happen when you move a smaller picture or the picture is in less contrast, does it?
This should be a topic when you open a case to ASUS, one case with only one problem. "

I can confirm this. The scanlines are not seen when you make the picture smaller. I agree this should be the area of focus and not flickering. It's very clear, scanlines is an issue in FarCry 5. I haven't play BF5 yet or the new Call of Duty (when it comes out). I'm almost afraid to. I appreciate Madhidings furbur, telling us in detail what's going on, but to a gamer like me all I'm hearing is bad news. Like the flickering issue is covered by someone company in the Rheinland. and here I am, under the impression from the ads on the website "eliminating any chance for noticeable flicker" and all the hype about this monitor, to me, VA panel issue or not, scanlines issue or not, FALD flickering or not, the bottom line is, I paid for a monitor that was to be flicker free and it sure wasn't. Only after I played Farcry 5 did I see this problem SO EVIDENTLY CLEAR. So splitting hairs on the "what people perceive" as flickering only goes to show they must have known about it and were just being legally blind to the scanline problems. To the average person looking at this problem, I'm certain everybody would agree it's a flickering problem (even though we know from Madhiding information the issue maybe isolated to another area of the device.) So when they say, "This technology works by providing stable, consistent power to the display and eliminating any chance for noticeable flicker." I have to question this given the very high price of this monitor.

I'll be filing a case for sure.

PACO572

Using the test image the are no scanlines or flickering on my monitor X35 when overdrive is OFF only when its ON do I see the flickering/scanlines.
These are the same flickering/scanlines I see in FarCry 5.

Cheers
PACO

 

[Viruzz]

What is the actual OD setting in your footage?

If you don't show the evidence, then I will assume it is still on. You turn it off, the flickering is gone.
Is that right?

If overdrive caused the issue, then you guys need to focus on a specific part.

Let's say the specific part is a large high contrast image moving while the OD is on. Then the monitor has the verticle lines/scanlines you guys observed.

But when people think the ghosting is flickering and say all the monitors are defective. That won't help you guys anywhere.
In fact, as far as you can concern, I am probably the one who can help you most. I have opened cases at ASUS and AU Optronics

So what is it? Is the OD off or ON while it is flickering in your footage?

Flicker on ASUS with Overdrive set to OFF:

 

[MadHiding]

Flicker on ASUS with Overdrive set to OFF:

I noticed that the constant appearing and disappearing of the verticle lines caused the flickering on the monitor.
When the OSD is opening, the flickering is gone. OSD is a large black area, the image pattern changed.

These artifacts are in fact the same as the scanlines you mentioned.

But the OD is off, the issue is still there in your monitor.

Have you noticed the motion differences when OD is set to off, normal, extreme?

Example: While the picture is moving around, does the monitor's look the same with the 3 different OD options?

 

[Paco572]

I took your advice. Focus on a specific part. Scanlines which I did. I called Acer Predator Support, only to have the phone hung up in my ear 3 times before someone actually listened to me and they did listen in the end. (no surprise there I'm banned from the ACER forums for bitching about this problem).
Acer is looking into it right now. Just got off the phone with them. Hopefully we will hear something soon from them. They know about it.

Cheers
PACO

 

[MadHiding]

I took your advice. Focus on a specific part. Scanlines which I did. I called Acer Predator Support, only to have the phone hung up in my ear 3 times before someone actually listened to me and they did listen in the end. (no surprise there I'm banned from the ACER forums for bitching about this problem).
Acer is looking into it right now. Just got off the phone with them. Hopefully we will hear something soon from them. They know about it.

Cheers
PACO

Better focus on the scanline, from all the footages, the flicker is caused by scanline shifting artifacts when there is a high contrast image.
Here are the things:

• The "flicker" we see is shifting verticle line/scanline artifacts.
• When the OD is on, every monitor can be triggered by a large high contrast image that is moving.
• When the OD is on, there is ghosting as well. In high contrast motion pictures, the ghosting effect combined with the scanline made the overall image worse.
• When the OD is off, one monitor can still have the scanline artifacts.

I dealt with enterprise merchandise with Acer. Predator supports are usually nice, you talk to them the first time, describing the details and they will respond to you in 3 business days. If the T3 support can do something about it, they will look for resources as soon as possible.

My connections to ASUS go directly to R&D. They definitely know what happens but haven't figure out how to deal with it and won't tell anything confidential.

 

[SystemMechanic]

BTW Paco

Bro, EVERYONE has this identical issue, the guy that posted above you, people that posted on this forum, people that posted on acer forum, EVERYONE have this same issue, OD is not broken for everyone, people swaped 3-4 monitors.

Just stop replying to him, he is just thread crapping now, . Same with Paco572...I literally mentioned in the Original Post that Acer, Asus and nvidia has know this for months...and he comes on here and makes Acer look like some good guys. Got em on ignore now.

My connections to ASUS go directly to R&D. They definitely know what happens but haven't figure out how to deal with it and won't tell anything confidential.

Clearly this person is a Asus shill. Nothing to see here. He just said it himself.

 

[Paco572]

This was the first time ACER confirmed to me "they acknowledge they have a problem" and are working to find a solution. Yes they said they were looking into back then at the ACER forum but I was not educated enough about my own monitor to know WTF was going on. I guess I'm getting roasted for it know.. See ya later.

 

[SystemMechanic]

From twitter:

 

[MadHiding]

Just stop replying to him, he is just thread crapping now, . Same with Paco572...I literally mentioned in the Original Post that Acer, Asus and nvidia has know this for months...and he comes on here and makes Acer look like some good guys. Got em on ignore now.

Clearly this person is a Asus shill. Nothing to see here. He just said it himself.

You need to quit imaging stuff in your head and learn some basic monitor knowledge instead of thinking ghosting is flickering.
And 99% of your claim is just ghosting and nothing more.

The artifacts you need to deal with is like this.

But in fact, all you want to fix is actually ghosting. So that is what triggers you. No one will fix that for you.

 

[n00brac3r]

Well the visual facility you get is totally worth it, i have seen many HDR Tv's and nothing comes close to these unless OLED which have burn in. TV's r also way too big for desks.

I dont know if you get good after service for buying something like a Ferrari but you definitely dont for buying these G SYNC ultimate monitors and its a huge issue to people who are legitimately interested in buying them for the extra visuals you get.

So OLED "have burn in" do they? I think you will find that ALL current display technologies can suffer burn-in to some degree or other depending a whole host of factors. Let me set the record somewhat straight though because I actually own an OLED - about 2 years old now. That TV is on several hours a day displaying PC windows, games, movies, streaming services etc. Not one issue with burn-in, absolutely pristine image, and sometimes Windows start is on for hours at a time. It's people like you who read some crap on the internet and repeat it that spreads FUD about exactly this kind of thing. Mine could suffer burn in, but it hasn't. Neither has my colleagues at work, or my cousins. 3 for 3, no burn in. Go figure.

Aside from that, is HDR worth it? For me, OLED is worth it for the high contrast alone. Is HDR on top even better? Again, in my case a bit, but I could take or leave it having seen my OLED beat out many normal LCDs with supposed HDR capability. Even with all of that, my 55" TV cost significantly less than these tiny monitors. So they have 200Hz refresh rates, nice. Show me a single graphics card that on it's own can run a game with full details and ray tracing at 3440 x 1440, 200Hz? Even dual cards would struggle. Sure, in the future you'll be able to hit that performance, but right not it's for bragging rights only. Not only that, I'd argue that if you can't enjoy games at 60fps, then you are a bit spoiled. Yeah, 120fps things get smoother, but after that, it's turned into a numbers game again, like resolution. Diminishing returns and just something else for an excuse to push out yet more overpriced hardware nobody really needs.

Give me a 1080p screen with inky blacks and super-fast response times with great colour accuracy and great contrast any day.

 

[Rahnak]

So OLED "have burn in" do they? I think you will find that ALL current display technologies can suffer burn-in to some degree or other depending a whole host of factors. Let me set the record somewhat straight though because I actually own an OLED - about 2 years old now. That TV is on several hours a day displaying PC windows, games, movies, streaming services etc. Not one issue with burn-in, absolutely pristine image, and sometimes Windows start is on for hours at a time. It's people like you who read some crap on the internet and repeat it that spreads FUD about exactly this kind of thing. Mine could suffer burn in, but it hasn't. Neither has my colleagues at work, or my cousins. 3 for 3, no burn in. Go figure.

Yes, they can suffer burn in. Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it can't happen. And people should always be alerted to that if they're planning on using it with very static content, such as a PC desktop. Rtings did a very lengthy, extreme case scenario test regarding oled burn in.

 

[Viruzz]

Yes, they can suffer burn in. Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it can't happen. And people should always be alerted to that if they're planning on using it with very static content, such as a PC desktop. Rtings did a very lengthy, extreme case scenario test regarding oled burn in.

I been using OLED as my PC monitor since 2016, its old model, the very first 4K OLEDs LG made that got popular C6p, there is no visible burn in.
Rating burn in test says the same, in regualr use there is no burn in.

 

[Vayra86]

BTW Paco


Just stop replying to him, he is just thread crapping now, . Same with Paco572...I literally mentioned in the Original Post that Acer, Asus and nvidia has know this for months...and he comes on here and makes Acer look like some good guys. Got em on ignore now.



View attachment 134242
Clearly this person is a Asus shill. Nothing to see here. He just said it himself.

Sorry to break the spell in this topic... but I'm seeing a guy that is legitimately trying to help you narrow down the issue to its core. Ignore? Really?

It IS possible that a monitor with new technology exhibits problems. And it IS useful to actually get that problem described as detailed as possible.

Is this really about crapping all over ACER, or do you want to have a good monitor? I mean... you could have refunded it by now. You've had four replacements, isn't that decent service?

In addition, I own a VA monitor too, and it IS true that especially darker hues have slower G2G transitions and it will cause much of said effect - minus the full screen flicker we've also seen, but it certainly looked different from your example of The DIvision 2. Overdrive can only do its best to mask that but it won't kill it completely. Guy has a legitimate point and 'should you know VA is slower'... no. But you've been told now.

So OLED "have burn in" do they? I think you will find that ALL current display technologies can suffer burn-in to some degree or other depending a whole host of factors. Let me set the record somewhat straight though because I actually own an OLED - about 2 years old now. That TV is on several hours a day displaying PC windows, games, movies, streaming services etc. Not one issue with burn-in, absolutely pristine image, and sometimes Windows start is on for hours at a time. It's people like you who read some crap on the internet and repeat it that spreads FUD about exactly this kind of thing. Mine could suffer burn in, but it hasn't. Neither has my colleagues at work, or my cousins. 3 for 3, no burn in. Go figure.

Aside from that, is HDR worth it? For me, OLED is worth it for the high contrast alone. Is HDR on top even better? Again, in my case a bit, but I could take or leave it having seen my OLED beat out many normal LCDs with supposed HDR capability. Even with all of that, my 55" TV cost significantly less than these tiny monitors. So they have 200Hz refresh rates, nice. Show me a single graphics card that on it's own can run a game with full details and ray tracing at 3440 x 1440, 200Hz? Even dual cards would struggle. Sure, in the future you'll be able to hit that performance, but right not it's for bragging rights only. Not only that, I'd argue that if you can't enjoy games at 60fps, then you are a bit spoiled. Yeah, 120fps things get smoother, but after that, it's turned into a numbers game again, like resolution. Diminishing returns and just something else for an excuse to push out yet more overpriced hardware nobody really needs.

Give me a 1080p screen with inky blacks and super-fast response times with great colour accuracy and great contrast any day.

Burn in will exhibit, 2 years is young for a display. Try 5 or 7. And to be fair with you, a display should easily last a good 10 years, the last few years becoming a bit more dim perhaps.

Even LG admits burn in is an issue they actively fight with algorithms etc. So...

The main caveat with a TV for PC use isn't the refresh rate. Its the latency. If you add interpolation from your TV that latency doubles.

I do fully agree on your 120hz statement. Going beyond is hitting diminishing returns hard.