Intel Enthusiast-Grade K Processors in the Comet Lake-S Family Rumored to Feature 125 W TDP

[hat]

You should not look at it as if Intel or AMD deceived you. They've sold you a CPU with 65W or 95W TDP. You can buy a cooler based on that TDP.
But they've also given you a bonus (not a lie!). Because they've made their CPUs so rapid and flexible, they can boost instantly for a short time when you need it in your typical consumer-ish PC using: to load a website, open a file, apply an effect in a photo editor etc. It's so short that the extra heat produced is tiny and your 95W cooler won't explode.
And if, during that short boost, your PSU can provide just 150W, not 200W? It won't explode either. The CPU knows when to stop pushing. It's all though out really well.

We test consumer CPUs by running hours of 100% load benchmarks, which is not how these CPUs are used in real life. Of course that's how we learn their performance limits (which is good), but the resulting average power consumption figures are unrealistic.
This is exactly the reason why workstation/server CPUs turn out (in similar tests) to be very conservative when it comes to TDP. Because their purpose is exactly to run at 100% all the time. That's how their TDP was calculated.

You... can't be serious. You expect me to look at a chip like the 9900k with a base clock of 3.6GHz and a turbo clock of 5.0GHz and take that 5GHz speed as a bonus for loading web pages faster? I can open web pages and open files pretty quickly with even a 15 year old computer. I don't need to be at 5GHz for a fraction of a second to do that only to slow down to 3.6GHz the moment I put any real load on the system. A lot of people are building systems with Intel processors for gaming, these days. It's one of their last few advantages, being able to get a few more FPS in games. As you know, running a game can be a pretty demanding task... and typically lasts for hours, not seconds. This is just one example of something very common that might happen with such a system. What about other examples of prolonged load? I hope you're not going to suggest we should be building workstations or servers to do transcoding, or running applications such as World Community Grid?

 

[cucker tarlson]

Load temps don’t really matter though.

riiiiiiight,temperatures don't matter,but tdp is so important people are arguing over it constantly.

So if I understand this correctly, a 95W cpu has more cooling efficiency than a 65W chip?

no,but 9700k runs good 10 degrees cooler than 3700x in gaming.
check out some in game youtube comparisons.
same testing methodology for the two,the 9700k is 10 degrees cooler at least.

like here,9700k 5ghz vs 3700x 4.3ghz,9700k runs cooler by 10 degrees despite higher OC and higher usage

you seem to be bothered by everything intel does and none that amd does.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

riiiiiiight,temperatures don't matter,but tdp is so important people are arguing over it constantly.


no,but 9700k runs good 10 degrees cooler than 3700x in gaming.
check out some in game youtube comparisons.
same testing methodology for the two,the 9700k is 10 degrees cooler at least.

like here,9700k 5ghz vs 3700x 4.3ghz,9700k runs cooler by 10 degrees despite higher OC and higher usage

you seem to be bothered by everything intel does and none that amd does.

My 9900k At 5ghz runs cooler than my stock 3900X in gaming as well with similar coolers at the same ambient..... The 9900k is getting pushed harder as far as FPS so it really isn't even a fair comparison. Rendering the 3900x is 20c cooler though lol.

 

[cucker tarlson]

My 9900k At 5ghz runs cooler than my stock 3900X in gaming as well with similar coolers at the same ambient..... The 9900k is getting pushed harder as far as FPS so it really isn't even a fair comparison. Rendering the 3900x is 20c cooler though lol.

absolutely.
these cpus are on far ends of spectrum.
9900k is to gaming what 3900x is to rendering.
I strongly believe in picking what cpu suits your usage scenario not going by purely cost per core or synthetic benchmarks.

9900k is cooler in gaming despite having fewer cores,higher tdp and older process.3900x is cooler in rendering because of more cores.all in all,it's the end result that matters.

 

[Dredi]

lol,another tdp debate.
why doesn't anyone pay attention to what actually matters

You have it all wrong. You need a less efficient cooler to dissipate the same amount of watts from an object that has a higher temperature, making the AMD design better in terms of noise. The scaling is even linear, so assuming that the 9900k in the graph uses the same amount of power as the 3900X, you would need 72% as efficient cooler for the 3900X. Just don’t go above the thermal limits set by the manufacturer.

 

[efikkan]

Love see people argument to TDP

Its easy

TDP intel = base clock
TDP amd = all core boost

Simple

You claim it's simple, yet you get it 100% incorrect.

Intel TDP is power consumption for sustained loads, not base clock. According to Intel's specs the CPU will throttle to the TDP, but allow short bursts above TDP, unless you disable the power limit. E.g. for i9-9900K it allows bursts up to ~28 seconds. Even the 127W i9-9900KS does consume only 127W sustained (at ~4.7 GHz all core) (unless the power limit is removed), with bursts up to ~185W where it achieves 5.0 GHz all core.

AMD's TDP rating for Zen has nothing to do with power at all. Their formula is the following:
TDP = (tCase - tAmbient) / HSF
tCase is usually 60-70°C - the max temperature between the silicon and the IHS before it will throttle.
tAmbient may be 42 or 32°C - maximum temperature at the heatsink inlet.
HSF - minimum required heatsink resistance ("heatsink quality").
All of these may vary from product to product.

AMD will boost their CPU cores individually until they reach a heat or voltage limit, per core individually. So Ryzen 3000 chips can easily use quite a bit more power than their TDP rating, but will work "fine" at a cooler matching their TDP rating, you may just loose some boosting potential.

The big difference here is that Intel will only exceed TDP in bursts but will throttle to TDP, even if you have cooling capacity for 300W. While Zen 2 may will have a sustained power draw that is more unpredictable, and is more dependent on the efficiency of the cooler and the ambient temperature. Zen 2 CPUs may use more power sustained than their TDP rating if the cooling is sufficient. On top of that Zen have the XFR which boosts above this in very tiny bursts.

Regardless of brand, I always recommend having at least 20-30% cooler headroom when building a PC; because of TDP meaning discrepancies, and obviously to get the maximum burst speed, but also to keep the noise at acceptable levels and since temperature affects longevity. Having a decent cooler is especially important for Ryzen 3000 series if you want all the performance you paid for. This doesn't mean you need an overkill water cooler though, just pick a good Noctua cooler and ensure good case airflow(!).

 

[qcmadness]

You claim it's simple, yet you get it 100% incorrect.

Intel TDP is power consumption for sustained loads, not base clock. According to Intel's specs the CPU will throttle to the TDP, but allow short bursts above TDP, unless you disable the power limit. E.g. for i9-9900K it allows bursts up to ~28 seconds. Even the 127W i9-9900KS does consume only 127W sustained (at ~4.7 GHz all core) (unless the power limit is removed), with bursts up to ~185W where it achieves 5.0 GHz all core.

AMD's TDP rating for Zen has nothing to do with power at all. Their formula is the following:
TDP = (tCase - tAmbient) / HSF
tCase is usually 60-70°C - the max temperature between the silicon and the IHS before it will throttle.
tAmbient may be 42 or 32°C - maximum temperature at the heatsink inlet.
HSF - minimum required heatsink resistance ("heatsink quality").
All of these may vary from product to product.

AMD will boost their CPU cores individually until they reach a heat or voltage limit, per core individually. So Ryzen 3000 chips can easily use quite a bit more power than their TDP rating, but will work "fine" at a cooler matching their TDP rating, you may just loose some boosting potential.

The big difference here is that Intel will only exceed TDP in bursts but will throttle to TDP, even if you have cooling capacity for 300W. While Zen 2 may will have a sustained power draw that is more unpredictable, and is more dependent on the efficiency of the cooler and the ambient temperature. Zen 2 CPUs may use more power sustained than their TDP rating if the cooling is sufficient. On top of that Zen have the XFR which boosts above this in very tiny bursts.

Regardless of brand, I always recommend having at least 20-30% cooler headroom when building a PC; because of TDP meaning discrepancies, and obviously to get the maximum burst speed, but also to keep the noise at acceptable levels and since temperature affects longevity. Having a decent cooler is especially important for Ryzen 3000 series if you want all the performance you paid for. This doesn't mean you need an overkill water cooler though, just pick a good Noctua cooler and ensure good case airflow(!).

But all consumer motherboards remove the limit.

 

[prnsforum]

The sign of 14nm+++++

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

You... can't be serious. You expect me to look at a chip like the 9900k with a base clock of 3.6GHz and a turbo clock of 5.0GHz and take that 5GHz speed as a bonus for loading web pages faster? I can open web pages and open files pretty quickly with even a 15 year old computer. I don't need to be at 5GHz for a fraction of a second to do that only to slow down to 3.6GHz the moment I put any real load on the system. A lot of people are building systems with Intel processors for gaming, these days. It's one of their last few advantages, being able to get a few more FPS in games. As you know, running a game can be a pretty demanding task... and typically lasts for hours, not seconds. This is just one example of something very common that might happen with such a system. What about other examples of prolonged load? I hope you're not going to suggest we should be building workstations or servers to do transcoding, or running applications such as World Community Grid?

I find that gaming is less demanding than other sustained loads for me. Maybe it’s just cause I’m not pushing high FPS, just going 1080p, but my 2700X won’t go over 60C in games, but will bump 75C in something like encoding. I think that’s why boost clocks are so beneficial for everyday users (or at least gamers), as modern CPUs like to boost a lot in games.

 

[ppn]

Not really, 5-8 core boost is 4.6Ghz under all kinds of loads. At least level1tech claimed that the 65 watt limit was non existent for the 8700 and the boost stays at 4.3 all day, never droping to base clock. So this may be the norm now for any solid motherboard at least. Can't imagine H410 with 4 phases surviving without some limits being set. Who knows.

 

[Berfs1]

Not really, 5-8 core boost is 4.6Ghz under all kinds of loads. At least level1tech claimed that the 65 watt limit was non existent for the 8700 and the boost stays at 4.3 all day, never droping to base clock. So this may be the norm now for any solid motherboard at least. Can't imagine H410 with 4 phases surviving without some limits being set. Who knows.

9700K is 46x for 6-8 core turbo.

You claim it's simple, yet you get it 100% incorrect.

Intel TDP is power consumption for sustained loads, not base clock. According to Intel's specs the CPU will throttle to the TDP, but allow short bursts above TDP, unless you disable the power limit. E.g. for i9-9900K it allows bursts up to ~28 seconds. Even the 127W i9-9900KS does consume only 127W sustained (at ~4.7 GHz all core) (unless the power limit is removed), with bursts up to ~185W where it achieves 5.0 GHz all core.

AMD's TDP rating for Zen has nothing to do with power at all. Their formula is the following:
TDP = (tCase - tAmbient) / HSF
tCase is usually 60-70°C - the max temperature between the silicon and the IHS before it will throttle.
tAmbient may be 42 or 32°C - maximum temperature at the heatsink inlet.
HSF - minimum required heatsink resistance ("heatsink quality").
All of these may vary from product to product.

AMD will boost their CPU cores individually until they reach a heat or voltage limit, per core individually. So Ryzen 3000 chips can easily use quite a bit more power than their TDP rating, but will work "fine" at a cooler matching their TDP rating, you may just loose some boosting potential.

The big difference here is that Intel will only exceed TDP in bursts but will throttle to TDP, even if you have cooling capacity for 300W. While Zen 2 may will have a sustained power draw that is more unpredictable, and is more dependent on the efficiency of the cooler and the ambient temperature. Zen 2 CPUs may use more power sustained than their TDP rating if the cooling is sufficient. On top of that Zen have the XFR which boosts above this in very tiny bursts.

Regardless of brand, I always recommend having at least 20-30% cooler headroom when building a PC; because of TDP meaning discrepancies, and obviously to get the maximum burst speed, but also to keep the noise at acceptable levels and since temperature affects longevity. Having a decent cooler is especially important for Ryzen 3000 series if you want all the performance you paid for. This doesn't mean you need an overkill water cooler though, just pick a good Noctua cooler and ensure good case airflow(!).

So basically Intel’s TDP is a super complicated and useless metric. Ok, got my answer, thanks a lot!

 

[Midland Dog]

since neither intel/amd can be trusted on TDP if it follows the trend prepare youselves for a power hungry chip... geez

for a company people like to hate nvidia have the best tdp

 

[E-curbi]

New Comet Lake Rumors and Leaks:

Intel Core i9-10900K 10-core to boost up to 5.3 GHz using "Thermal Velocity Boost".

Intel Core i9-10900K to boost up to 5.3 GHz, specifications of 10th Gen Core Comet Lake-S leaked - VideoCardz.com

Update: Right before the story went live we were asked not to share some of the slides, but we are still sharing the information from them. Original story: It appears that guys over at Informatica Cero leaked the most interesting slides for the Intel CPU market in 2020. Intel Core...

videocardz.com

 

[qcmadness]

Not really, 5-8 core boost is 4.6Ghz under all kinds of loads. At least level1tech claimed that the 65 watt limit was non existent for the 8700 and the boost stays at 4.3 all day, never droping to base clock. So this may be the norm now for any solid motherboard at least. Can't imagine H410 with 4 phases surviving without some limits being set. Who knows.

Try AVX2 codes

 

[MrAMD]

I don’t think the 10 core chips were supposed to come with iGPUs, I believe those were all F/KF cpus, but I may be wrong. Then again, if you need 10 cores, ur probs gonna get urself a GPU anyways.

Think it's backwards, F/KF don't have iGPUs. K/KS do. Seems the leak mentions it having UHD 630 integrated graphics. I use it for accelerated video rendering via quicksync. Quicksync is a huge perf cheat not known by most people. Makes my 9900K render like it's a 14 core HEDT while only having 8 cores. Also have the 2080 Ti for CUDA acceleration in the same render job.

Quicksync - H.264 rendering
CUDA - Effects rendering

For me it's the best of both worlds. Can game uncompromised and can render like no tomorrow. Yes please.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Think it's backwards, F/KF don't have iGPUs. K/KS do. Seems the leak mentions it having UHD 630 integrated graphics. I use it for accelerated video rendering via quicksync. Quicksync is a huge perf cheat not known by most people. Makes my 9900K render like it's a 14 core HEDT while only having 8 cores. Also have the 2080 Ti for CUDA acceleration in the same render job.

Quicksync - H.264 rendering
CUDA - Effects rendering

For me it's the best of both worlds. Can game uncompromised and can render like no tomorrow. Yes please.

funny how much value an igpu can have while so many people scoff.
I've had 4 gpus on my current z97 platform,always had to fall back on my igpu in between cards.
mighty useful when troubleshooting my pc too.

 

[MrAMD]

funny how much value an igpu can have while so many people scoff.
I've had 4 gpus on my current z97 platform,always had to fall back on my igpu in between cards.
mighty useful when troubleshooting my pc too.

Yep that is also a big saver. Don't have any backup gpus so I would be SOL if anything happened during work / maintenance.

 

[Object55]

Can we just stop talking about TDP, nobody cares.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

But all consumer motherboards remove the limit.

All the ROG Asus boards and probably the lesser boards as well all default to Intel's spec for TDP. When you enable XMP it asked if you want to disable all limits or not and warns you about having adequate cooling.

 

[GoldenX]

Looks nice, decent clocks, HT, exactly as it should have been 4 years ago.

 

[hat]

I find that gaming is less demanding than other sustained loads for me. Maybe it’s just cause I’m not pushing high FPS, just going 1080p, but my 2700X won’t go over 60C in games, but will bump 75C in something like encoding. I think that’s why boost clocks are so beneficial for everyday users (or at least gamers), as modern CPUs like to boost a lot in games.

Of course. I wouldn't expect any game to load an 8 core, 16 thread processor to 100% sustained load, even though games these days are starting to take advantage of more and more cores after quad cores were the norm for so long. Encoding, on the other hand, is a heavy, consistent load that scales well even on systems with tons of cores. However, gaming is one scenario that does impose a relatively heavy, consistent load for a prolonged period of time... it will last for far longer and is going to be much heavier than opening a webpage. It's also something that someone who is buying a chip like a 9900k would want the most out of their systems...

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Of course. I wouldn't expect any game to load an 8 core, 16 thread processor to 100% sustained load, even though games these days are starting to take advantage of more and more cores after quad cores were the norm for so long. Encoding, on the other hand, is a heavy, consistent load that scales well even on systems with tons of cores. However, gaming is one scenario that does impose a relatively heavy, consistent load for a prolonged period of time... it will last for far longer and is going to be much heavier than opening a webpage. It's also something that someone who is buying a chip like a 9900k would want the most out of their systems...

Yes, like you said, in games the load doesn't max an 8 core. Instead the work is spread around across all the cores at random, which allows for more boosting of the clocks. My 2700X seems to hover around 4.1-4.2GHz in games, but an all core sustained load is more like 3.9-4.0GHz. I think that's a good thing about boost clocks--you do get more performance than had AMD (or Intel) capped the clocks to the rated--or even the boosted--all-core speed. I get an extra 200MHz in games (or in Lightroom), and another 150MHz in short bursts. There are efficiencies to be had for a CPU to boost up and complete a task and return to idle sooner. Smartphone SOCs have been doing this for years now, and it's mainly done to improve battery life. I don't see an issue with this approach at all--give me the most my CPU can do, depending on the task. I suppose it's all in how it is advertised though. I always get more than the base rated speed, but I usually get less than the max boost.

 

[hat]

AMD has been doing some work on that with "preferred cores" or whatnot... when it can it will shift workload to the better cores.

 

[GoldenX]

AMD has been doing some work on that with "preferred cores" or whatnot... when it can it will shift workload to the better cores.

It also applies to the Intel HEDT platform, not just Zen2.

 

[Berfs1]

Think it's backwards, F/KF don't have iGPUs. K/KS do. Seems the leak mentions it having UHD 630 integrated graphics. I use it for accelerated video rendering via quicksync. Quicksync is a huge perf cheat not known by most people. Makes my 9900K render like it's a 14 core HEDT while only having 8 cores. Also have the 2080 Ti for CUDA acceleration in the same render job.

Quicksync - H.264 rendering
CUDA - Effects rendering

For me it's the best of both worlds. Can game uncompromised and can render like no tomorrow. Yes please.

I meant what I said, and I originally meant that I thought the 10 core cpus wouldn’t have iGPUs. I may have been wrong if those leaks are correct. And the reason many people don’t know how QuickSync works is because it’s useless to them, as they usually are gamers. For normal people, iGPU is a rather handy thing to have, it saves a bunch of electricity.