AMD CEO To Unveil "Zen 3" Microarchitecture at CES 2020

[mainlate]

Hopefully Renoir APUs do not have PCIe interface limited to 8x anymore. Even Intel´s lowest end Coffee Lake Celeron has 16x. And make Ryzen 4000 single CCD CPUS to have full memory write speed performance.

 

[Jism]

Gotta love AMD for bringing in CPU's that are compatible with one uniform socket, AM4.

Upgrade anytime you want.

 

[ERazer]

6 or 8 core APU pls!

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

AMD still struggles against Intel's 14nm. The only AMD laptop that has comparable battery life to 14nm intel is the new thinkpad t495, and notably, the t495 restricts the AMD chip to a lower TDP and reduces its clock rates more agressively then the intel model. Everything else shows considerably worse battery life numbers, which would line up with claims that AMD's drivers and software support for OEMs is still quite poor.

AMD cant "finewine" their way into OEM's hands. They need to deliver a competitive product, day 1. As long as their mobile chips are a generation behind, it shows a lack of willigness to commit the resources to the mobile market. There is no reason the 4000 series APUs shouldn't be zen 3 cores with a navi GPU, and a full speed memory controller FFS! (their 3000 series APUs are limited to 2400, while their desktop 2000 series can push 2933, and their APUs are memory bandwidth limited. Meanwhile, intel is pushing 3733 in mobile).

Not necessarily. If you recall the Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 debacle, the issue was related to MS implementing a 1.0 power feature that was new to Skylake. None of the other OEMs had these issues, because all of them knew not to implement a 1.0 feature from Intel. OEMs prefer stability over innovative, and so it makes sense for AMD to take a cautious approach to its APUs, as these are the most likely products to end up in OEM notebooks and desktops. I bet even for end users, buying a Zen2 today is a better experience versus right after it launched.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Not necessarily. If you recall the Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 debacle, the issue was related to MS implementing a 1.0 power feature that was new to Skylake. None of the other OEMs had these issues, because all of them knew not to implement a 1.0 feature from Intel. OEMs prefer stability over innovative, and so it makes sense for AMD to take a cautious approach to its APUs, as these are the most likely products to end up in OEM notebooks and desktops. I bet even for end users, buying a Zen2 today is a better experience versus right after it launched.

That's why OEMs never jump on intel's newest architectures, right? They always wait and deploy millions of new machines on the old chips, thats why there are no coffee lake laptops available, right?

A new feature is not the same thing an an entire architecture. A new feature is not the same thing as supporting only very slow mmeory from 3-4 years ago.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

That's why OEMs never jump on intel's newest architectures, right? They always wait and deploy millions of new machines on the old chips, thats why there are no coffee lake laptops available, right?

A new feature is not the same thing an an entire architecture. A new feature is not the same thing as supporting only very slow mmeory from 3-4 years ago.

AMD has to overcome the “budget brand” label they have long had. If you look at some implementations of mobile Zen, some OEMs were shipping them in single channel configurations! Others throttle them down under load. Until they can get OEMs to make premium Zen, there’s little point in making faster chips. And I would bet that you don’t see many Coffee Lake OEM machines due to Intel supply issues that they have been complaining about.

 

[notb]

AMD has to overcome the “budget brand” label they have long had.

They've adopted it voluntarily. No "overcoming" is going to happen.

No one stops them from asking more for their products.
They would have money for quality control, testing, drivers, support, libraries, partnerships, sponsorships, bug bounty, scholarships, global existence etc.
They would have profits to support the idiotic stock price.

Remember, they've chosen not to. CHOSEN.
It's a well though business strategy of minimal costs, laying low and building brand strength on strong fan group.

If you look at some implementations of mobile Zen, some OEMs were shipping them in single channel configurations!

Most laptops are offered with single channel memory. This is normal. Intel adapted and their CPUs don't lose that much.
AMD didn't adapt. They made the fastest CPU they could regardless of real world applications and issues.
And if it's slow in laptops: that's because OEMs don't offer them with dual channel, uses slow RAM or something.
And if a program can't use 16 cores, it's the program's fault.

And I would bet that you don’t see many Coffee Lake OEM machines due to Intel supply issues that they have been complaining about.

Google "irony".

All major mobile laptop lineups have already moved to Intel's latest CPUs:
Coffee Lake for mobile workstations (still as 9th gen).
Ice Lake for laptops with strong IGP (10th; 10nm).
Comet Lake for everything else (10th; 14nm).

 

[Turmania]

I wish they made Renoir Apu`s as well with up to date zen and radeon architecture.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

They've adopted it voluntarily. No "overcoming" is going to happen.

No one stops them from asking more for their products.
They would have money for quality control, testing, drivers, support, libraries, partnerships, sponsorships, bug bounty, scholarships, global existence etc.
They would have profits to support the idiotic stock price.

Remember, they've chosen not to. CHOSEN.
It's a well though business strategy of minimal costs, laying low and building brand strength on strong fan group.

Most laptops are offered with single channel memory. This is normal. Intel adapted and their CPUs don't lose that much.
AMD didn't adapt. They made the fastest CPU they could regardless of real world applications and issues.
And if it's slow in laptops: that's because OEMs don't offer them with dual channel, uses slow RAM or something.
And if a program can't use 16 cores, it's the program's fault.

Google "irony".

All major mobile laptop lineups have already moved to Intel's latest CPUs:
Coffee Lake for mobile workstations (still as 9th gen).
Ice Lake for laptops with strong IGP (10th; 10nm).
Comet Lake for everything else (10th; 14nm).

A million apologies for misunderstanding the OP's comment about Coffee Lake. I thought he was commenting about shortages, which is a real situation. Anyway, you don't think AMD can't adapt to single channel memory? It will work just fine, but it obviously handicaps the strengths the APU has, as no miracles are available to turn single channel memory into anything more than adequate for a relatively high-powered GPU. And no, until Ryzen, AMD was hurting big time. Their mobile stuff was mediocre to just plain junk. They are essentially starting at zero for mobile. Plus it's a bit of chicken and the egg. They were bleeding cash--not exactly the best time to add overhead. Hopefully their recent windfall has given them this opportunity. It only supports my original statement--AMD's mobile reputation isn't great, so they won't get high-margins on current products. I think their strategy is the correct one--refine proven processes and aim to move up the product stack. Also keep in mind Intel helps OEMs pay for advertising. Unless AMD is willing to campaign hard, Intel will always have more mindshare to the average buyer.

 

[notb]

A million apologies for misunderstanding the OP's comment about Coffee Lake. I thought he was commenting about shortages, which is a real situation.

"Shortages" are real and stem from the larger datacenter demand.
And, of course, since AMD's surge forced Intel to make larger CPUs, they make less of them.

Also, this isn't really "a shortage". It's just economy working.

"Shortage" is when there's not enough of basic goods that you can't live without: air, water, food.
Computers are just products. There's always a group of buyers that can't afford them. That's how it should be.

OEMs push the "shortage" narrative to justify higher prices (just like RAM makers do talking about floods etc.)

Anyway, you don't think AMD can't adapt to single channel memory? It will work just fine, but it obviously handicaps the strengths the APU has

Of course it'll work. But it'll be slower.
There's a big problem with how we perceive the competition between Intel and AMD. CPUs are tested with best RAM, best motherboards, best PSUs, best cooling, tweaks and so on.
But how much of that performance goes away when the scenario is less ideal?
And the simple fact is: Zen is a lot more sensitive than whatever Intel offers.
So how "real" is the performance we're seeing in reviews?

And now we move to OEMs and here's the thing. They want to make money. They'll do every shortcut and exploit every possibility to lower costs.
Yes, laptops come with single channel, slow RAM. That's it.
Yes, it hurts AMD more than it hurts Intel.
Seriously, people can't expect OEMs to totally redesign their PCs for Zen. Or to buy more expensive RAM to help it shine (because it goes straight from their margins).

Their mobile stuff was mediocre to just plain junk.

I disagree. AMD has been doing good low voltage chips for a long time. They have very strong position in APUs and embedded.
And the laptop APUs they've offered before ZEN weren't bad either. At least they were designed to do this, not forced to.

You're just focusing on the consumer PC market, especially gaming. Here they sucked. But no one forced them to tackle this. We still need ATM. IoT is exploding. They could have just left notebooks to Intel (who's much better at this) and focus on other markets.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

"Shortages" are real and stem from the larger datacenter demand.
And, of course, since AMD's surge forced Intel to make larger CPUs, they make less of them.

Also, this isn't really "a shortage". It's just economy working.

"Shortage" is when there's not enough of basic goods that you can't live without: air, water, food.
Computers are just products. There's always a group of buyers that can't afford them. That's how it should be.

OEMs push the "shortage" narrative to justify higher prices (just like RAM makers do talking about floods etc.)

Of course it'll work. But it'll be slower.
There's a big problem with how we perceive the competition between Intel and AMD. CPUs are tested with best RAM, best motherboards, best PSUs, best cooling, tweaks and so on.
But how much of that performance goes away when the scenario is less ideal?
And the simple fact is: Zen is a lot more sensitive than whatever Intel offers.
So how "real" is the performance we're seeing in reviews?

And now we move to OEMs and here's the thing. They want to make money. They'll do every shortcut and exploit every possibility to lower costs.
Yes, laptops come with single channel, slow RAM. That's it.
Yes, it hurts AMD more than it hurts Intel.
Seriously, people can't expect OEMs to totally redesign their PCs for Zen. Or to buy more expensive RAM to help it shine (because it goes straight from their margins).

I disagree. AMD has been doing good low voltage chips for a long time. They have very strong position in APUs and embedded.
And the laptop APUs they've offered before ZEN weren't bad either. At least they were designed to do this, not forced to.

You're just focusing on the consumer PC market, especially gaming. Here they sucked. But no one forced them to tackle this. We still need ATM. IoT is exploding. They could have just left notebooks to Intel (who's much better at this) and focus on other markets.

We aren’t seeing eye to eye. What you’re saying I’m saying is not what I’m trying to say. I agree to disagree.

 

[Tomorrow]

AMD still struggles against Intel's 14nm.

Apparenty so does Intel themselves with 10nm. It's a two way sword really. Refine 14nm over 5+ years and get good clockspeeds and yields but also give enough time for people to find security holes.

 

[AvrageGamr]

New consoles are coming out later this year. Should be something from AMD on that front.

 

[ypsylon]

On a LOL note: For the duration of Lisa Su presentation even Pr0nHub will be deserted.

On a serious note.

AMD doesn't just flexes its muscles. They are really on the course to steamroll Intel dominance. Even if only short term - let's not fool ourselves, Intel is working overtime on some sledgehammer of their own, they did it few times already. Who knows, perhaps that 4 series Threadripper for 64 cores will be already a Zen 3 part? Kind of makes sense in long term.