XMG APEX 15 is a Laptop with AMD Ryzen 3950X CPU Inside

[XMG Support]

Can I easily detach/attach the laptop battery?
Because I want to ditch that battery off when gaming. It is really unpleasantly to use the battery when gaming.
Seriously, my laptop always connects to electricity when gaming and unfortunately it's very difficult to detach the battery.
It runs very hot easily and quickly degrades the battery itself.

The battery is removable like in the good old days.

Even if you keep it connected: the BIOS has the "FlexiCharger" feature where you can customize the battery charging levels. For example:

• Don't charge when capacity still above 40%
• Stop charging when capacity hits 60%.

40~60% level is supposed to be ideal for storage.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[EarthDog]

That's a lot of horsepower in a laptop, nice!

Wondering though, if so many people were up in arms about the new Intel chip and keeping it cool... where is the concern here? 45W 8c/16t vs 65W 16c/32t?

I also like how in the other article it was a mobil monstrosity.... but this is........?

In order to hit the 3200MHz speed, you need RAM modules that can already achieve this clock speed on JEDEC profiles. This requires new RAM modules that are coming out now in 2020.

Are these all with the very high CL22 rating? I'm wonder what performances differences are between a more typical 3200 CL16. Likely only a couple percent loss, but still. I'd rather XMP support to feed such a beast of a cpu... especially an architecture that loves lower latency.

 

[XMG Support]

Wondering though, if so many people were up in arms about the new Intel chip and keeping it cool... where is the concern here? 45W 8c/16t vs 65W 16x/32t?

Every vendor has different conceptions of what they consider "TDP", even within their own product range. Generally speaking, the TDP is usually not enough power to achieve the advertised Boost speeds, especially not with All Core boost. Comparing the TDP numbers between Mobile, Desktop, Intel and AMD is pretty much pointless, unfortunately.

Case in point:

Our Intel i9-9980HK (TDP: 45W) can boost up to 105W in XMG PRO series.
Likewise, the Ryzen 9 3900 (TDP: 65W) takes no more than 88W (PPT) in this system.

We've done the math. It does not check out.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[EarthDog]

Every vendor has different conceptions of what they consider "TDP", even within their own product range. Generally speaking, the TDP is usually not enough power to achieve the advertised Boost speeds, especially not with All Core boost. Comparing the TDP numbers between Mobile, Desktop, Intel and AMD is pretty much pointless, unfortunately.

Case in point:

Our Intel i9-9980HK (TDP: 45W) can boost up to 105W in XMG PRO series.
Likewise, the Ryzen 9 3900 (TDP: 65W) takes no more than 88W (PPT) in this system.

We've done the math. It does not check out.

Cheers,
Tom

Tom, this wasnt toward XMG, but towards the people in the other threads. Were all waiting with bated breath to see how that works out.

Where does this run all c/t (GHz) @ 88W?

Any consideration to enable xmp in the future so performance isnt left on the table?

 

[XMG Support]

Let me put it this way:

Test	CPU-Taktrate	CPU-Temperatur	GPU-Temperatur
Prime95, Small FTT's, 15min	3500MHz All Core	~80°C	-
Furmark+Prime95, 15min	2500MHz All Core	~82°C	~75°C
The Witcher 3 (FHD, Ultra Settings)	3700MHz	~86°C	~75°C

This is all with Ryzen 9 3900 and RTX 2070.

CPU Temperature is CCD1 value.

What do you think?

Not sure about XMP. Raising memory speed beyond DDR4-3200 might increase temperature and affect system stability. I'll try to get a thorough answer in the next couple of weeks.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[EarthDog]

Let me put it this way:

Test	CPU-Taktrate	CPU-Temperatur	GPU-Temperatur
Prime95, Small FTT's, 15min	3500MHz All Core	~80°C	-
Furmark+Prime95, 15min	2500MHz All Core	~82°C	~75°C
The Witcher 3 (FHD, Ultra Settings)	3700MHz	~86°C	~75°C

This is all with Ryzen 9 3900 and RTX 2070.




CPU Temperature is CCD1 value.

What do you think?

Cheers,
Tom

Overall, looks good!!

That said, we see significant throttling happening in the furmark+p95 test...back to the base clock of the cpu. While that isnt a realistic load, I wonder what happens if people use both for a heavy blender session or some other activity that uses both (which isnt a light activity such as gaming).

And again, the only options for memory are 3200mhz cl22/jedec, or less and jedec...yes?

This is a beefy rig, just dont understand the decision to run the new 3200mhz JEDEC spec ONLY instead of leaving some flexibility for the user. You've got an unsoldered chip, but stripped software functionality that could improve performance.

Edit: saw you added info about xmp... my concern is that it really limits options to what many would consider slow (the JEDEC timings are abhorrent compared to 3200 cl16 you can get).

 

[Vayra86]

Can only agree with @EarthDog , bit strange to cut off the XMP option like this, the 'why' is also missing behind that. Is it cost saving? Is it something you might add? You bring a highly tweak-friendly box... make it tweakable. There is a bit of emotion involved here too, even if its just a few percent absolute performance, its the idea of not having an option that is otherwise pretty common and well known.

All things considered, I just went through the configurator, even if its highly competitive price wise, you're still looking at over 2K EUR for this machine in its top config (and that is without anything special regarding storage (500GB OS SSD) and just 16GB RAM). It damn well better have the ability to access everything, IMO.

Regarding temps, that looks very sweet, especially the GPU temp under TW3. It shows you got a loaded system nicely under control, no heat bleeds to the GPU and GPU loads are also stable. And most of everything else is also a killing spree of great choices: 1080p, IPS high refresh, desktop CPU. Well played. Just that XMP left This is a real desktop replacement and I like it a lot.

 

[Berfs1]

If that's the situation, then there is a case for a removable screen model to be made available, just use your own monitor when at home, or attach the screen when mobile.
I think it would work.

That would be rather interesting to integrate, I would totally go for that!

Can I easily detach/attach the laptop battery?
Because I want to ditch that battery off when gaming. It is really unpleasantly to use the battery when gaming.
Seriously, my laptop always connects to electricity when gaming and unfortunately it's very difficult to detach the battery.
It runs very hot easily and quickly degrades the battery itself.

lol then just game when plugged in, but there should be an option in more advanced laptops like this to primarily use A/C. However, uh, it should be using A/C (charger) when it is plugged in...

Can only agree with @EarthDog , bit strange to cut off the XMP option like this, the 'why' is also missing behind that. Is it cost saving? Is it something you might add? You bring a highly tweak-friendly box... make it tweakable. There is a bit of emotion involved here too, even if its just a few percent absolute performance, its the idea of not having an option that is otherwise pretty common and well known.

All things considered, I just went through the configurator, even if its highly competitive price wise, you're still looking at over 2K EUR for this machine in its top config (and that is without anything special regarding storage (500GB OS SSD) and just 16GB RAM). It damn well better have the ability to access everything, IMO.

Regarding temps, that looks very sweet, especially the GPU temp under TW3. It shows you got a loaded system nicely under control, no heat bleeds to the GPU and GPU loads are also stable. And most of everything else is also a killing spree of great choices: 1080p, IPS high refresh, desktop CPU. Well played. Just that XMP left This is a real desktop replacement and I like it a lot.

It helps protect the user against making dangerous mistakes. Though, I would personally feel allowing XMP shouldn't be a big problem, so long as it does not beat the processor's frequency. I say that because I believe 2666 should be the max for Zen, 2933 for Zen+, and 3200 for Zen 2 (max officially supported by each generation, but can be overclocked of course).

But JEDEC means it is guaranteed to work on any platform regardless of if it is Intel or Ryzen.

 

[Prince Valiant]

The battery is removable like in the good old days.

Even if you keep it connected: the BIOS has the "FlexiCharger" feature where you can customize the battery charging levels. For example:

• Don't charge when capacity still above 40%
• Stop charging when capacity hits 60%.

40~60% level is supposed to be ideal for storage.

Cheers,
Tom

Good choice. It's a pain when laptops require near complete disassembly to get at the battery (Alienware ).

 

[Vayra86]

It helps protect the user against making dangerous mistakes.

In a mid range OEM dustbin I would get that, but for this type of machine... no.

 

[XMG Support]

We're having a very large number of unlocked BIOS options available already (more than any other laptop OEM would supply) and based on further testing and feedback we might also unlock additional DDR4 RAM options. Our first review samples is en route to a very knowledgeable reviewer and we gave him both DDR4-2666 and DDR4-3200 modules and all 4 supported CPU SKUs to compare them against each other.

Taiwan is now going into hibernation until Monday (it's the Tomb Sweeping Day holiday weekend). We'll continue to answer comments and questions here and will see to supply more hard info next week.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[lexluthermiester]

I mean if ur gonna use this plugged in all the time, might as well use a monitor lol

Some people want a mobile workstation. They're not going to carry a display around with them. For many, myself included, 15" screens are simply not good enough, regardless of the rest of the system specs. Personally, I would love to see a portable system with a 22" screen. The system in the article above with a 22" screen? Yes please! I'd buy that thing in an instant without a second thought.

 

[Rage Set]

Interesting. I wonder if Premamod BIOS will be available for this.... I'm going to go ask him.

 

[ARF]

Some people want a mobile workstation. They're not going to carry a display around with them. For many, myself included, 15" screens are simply not good enough, regardless of the rest of the system specs. Personally, I would love to see a portable system with a 22" screen. The system in the article above with a 22" screen? Yes please! I'd buy that thing in an instant without a second thought.

22-inch? They don't wanna make 17-inch laptops anymore, let alone 18-inch, you want 22-inch......
How would you carry it? There are no so large backpacks.

 

[lexluthermiester]

22-inch? They don't wanna make 17-inch laptops anymore, let alone 18-inch, you want 22-inch......

Yup, that is what I said.

How would you carry it?

Like I'd carry any other laptop..

There are no so large backpacks.

I don't and have never used backpack anyway, not really a problem.

 

[windwhirl]

22-inch? They don't wanna make 17-inch laptops anymore, let alone 18-inch, you want 22-inch......

If Acer didn't want to make one, they would have never made the Predator 21x... granted, it's not 22-inch, but 21-inch. Close enough though

There's a market for such devices, it's just a matter of how many would and could buy one. I know I'd buy a 17-inch laptop with high specs (maybe not this high-spec, but 8 cores would be pretty sweet, even more so considering form factor) if I could. Carrying it is the least of your troubles if you need/want to carry that much computing power around.

 

[lexluthermiester]

If Acer didn't want to make one, they would have never made the Predator 21x... granted, it's not 22-inch, but 21-inch. Close enough though

Wildly expensive though. An affordable large screen option would be great.

 

[TechLurker]

One thing I've noticed is no TB3 capability. Is that just not available on this particular model?

That aside, the price as spec'd to my liking isn't all that bad; looks to be pretty competitive price-wise with a high-end model ROG Zephyrus (trading battery life for more storage), though I'm waiting to see more 45w 4800/4900 mobile laptops first before I finalize.

 

[XMG Support]

One thing I've noticed is no TB3 capability. Is that just not available on this particular model?

No, it's not. While in theory it is possible to put an Intel Titan Ridge chipset on a mainboard with AMD platform (Lenovo has done it), it's supposed to be quite a hassle. Furthermore, cost and additional R&D time for Thunderbolt certification is huge (you gotta send working samples to various Intel labs around the world to get certified in multiple stages) which would increase the base price and delay market introduction.

And as has been reported and as you can read on many docking station reviews on Amazon, despite all the certification, Thunderbolt isn't really that "one size fits all" standard that it is marketed to be. Every vendors makes their own little exceptions, gets customized firmwares, difficult to update etc.

The only real use case for Thunderbolt is eGPU and those very rare cases where people have external storage units that exceed the 10 GBit/s speed of USB-C 3.1 Gen2.
If you want a docking state, look for USB-C/DP MST hubs. They forward the native DP signal from the USB-C port and deliver everything else (LAN, Audio, USB) through standard USB interfaces with little to no compatibility issues. They are also much cheaper than full-bown Thunderbolt docks.

Example:
https://i-tec.cz/produkt/catriple4kdockpd-3/

It carries "Thunderbolt 3" in the title (because it's compatible with Thunderbolt-Ports, since USB-C/DP is a feature subset of TBT), but when you look at the spec sheet, you'll see it "only" uses USB-C for data and DisplayPort for video - guaranteed to deliver up to 4K@60Hz but it also works with 144Hz, G-SYNC etc. - because it's native DP signal.

(Sorry, I always get carried away on the Thunderbolt topic...)

That aside, the price as spec'd to my liking isn't all that bad; looks to be pretty competitive price-wise with a high-end model ROG Zephyrus (trading battery life for more storage)

Thank you!

though I'm waiting to see more 45w 4800/4900 mobile laptops first before I finalize.

We're working on 4800H as well and 4900HS is under consideration.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Vayra86]

@XMG Support Thanks for the quick and nice response. Looking forward to seeing this reviewed.

22-inch? They don't wanna make 17-inch laptops anymore, let alone 18-inch, you want 22-inch......
How would you carry it? There are no so large backpacks.

They're not going to carry a display with them.

But a 22 inch laptop that is twice the thickness of a similar panel, why not!

If Acer didn't want to make one, they would have never made the Predator 21x... granted, it's not 22-inch, but 21-inch. Close enough though

There's a market for such devices, it's just a matter of how many would and could buy one. I know I'd buy a 17-inch laptop with high specs (maybe not this high-spec, but 8 cores would be pretty sweet, even more so considering form factor) if I could. Carrying it is the least of your troubles if you need/want to carry that much computing power around.

Well, usually the lack of continued range of a certain diagonal is far more telling than 'company X has one product'. Companies try things, it says nothing about whether there is actually a market for them. It only tells us they tried.

 

[Cheeseball]

...

Cheers,
Tom

You guys need a US base. I played around with the configuration, did a conversion from Euro to USD and I'm actually very satisfied with the price. I would've bought one if you guys were here.

 

[XMG Support]

You guys need a US base. I played around with the configuration, did a conversion from Euro to USD and I'm actually very satisfied with the price. I would've bought one if you guys were here.

Let me check with our friends at Eluktronics if and when they're going to launch this platform. brb

/edit: They haven't replied to me yet.

// Tom

 

[Berfs1]

Some people want a mobile workstation. They're not going to carry a display around with them. For many, myself included, 15" screens are simply not good enough, regardless of the rest of the system specs. Personally, I would love to see a portable system with a 22" screen. The system in the article above with a 22" screen? Yes please! I'd buy that thing in an instant without a second thought.

If you are going for a mobile system, you want portability. 15" would be ideal for that (versus 17" or 18" laptops). The reason portable 22" laptops don't exist is because it is extremely heavy to integrate and maintain low flex. An alternative to your specific scenario would be a portable monitor. Yes they exist, and they can take power from your laptop if you are on the go.

In a mid range OEM dustbin I would get that, but for this type of machine... no.

Well now, you wouldn't want to tear apart the system just to get to the CMOS battery in case you messed it up that badly by accident, would you?

 

[lexluthermiester]

If you are going for a mobile system, you want portability.

Yes, with you so far...

15" would be ideal for that (versus 17" or 18" laptops).

That's an opinion. Not everyone agrees.

The reason portable 22" laptops don't exist is because it is extremely heavy to integrate and maintain low flex.

Rubbish. I have a Samsung 22" 1080p screen for one of my kids which it is ultra light and very sturdy. A matching laptop chassis would be trivial.

An alternative to your specific scenario would be a portable monitor.

No thank you. But you did just prove my point in a way...

Yes they exist, and they can take power from your laptop if you are on the go.

...and how difficult would it be to attach one to a set of hinges? Answer: It would not be difficult at all..

 

[XMG Support]

You guys need to check out this website:

Rugged Laptops | ACME Portable

Your source for the most powerful portable computers on the planet!

www.acmeportable.com

Yes, this company is called ACME. Like in Road Runner. Any more questions?

// Tom