i9-9900KS OC high temps

[AlexV860]

Hi all,
I have been trying to get some more performance out of my 9900KS, as the stock 4 ghz just bugs me. I have been able to OC my GPUs no sweat, but whenever I even apply the factory Alienware OC with a 48x multiplier my temps start to skyrocket and it throttles. Running Kombustor I was hitting CPU temps of 100C. Any ideas on what may be happening here? I have already re applied thermal paste and it did lower temps by maybe a few degrees, but I have been afraid to even bench the CPU again for fear of frying something, especially with everything shut down from Coronavirus I am afraid if needed I wouldnt be able to get it serviced and would be without a PC for the foreseeable future. Any tips or info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[P4-630]

Running Kombustor I was hitting CPU temps of 100C.

Running Kombustor heats up the GPU....
Or were you running it on the iGPU.

 

[Vario]

These CPU run hot especially if on an aircooler or small AIO. For the 9900K machine I built, I set it to 45x for all core turbo and an offset of -20 that puts it at 1.184v maximum for full load IIRC. I also made sure the CPU had a long and short power limit to throttle it. You are not doing anything wrong, they are just hot. Set your expectations lower and use a lower multiplier. You won't be able to tell a difference between 45x, 48x, or 50x anyway.
I think this is the case that Aurora computer uses, its not particularly great for airflow so hotter temperatures are to be expected:

 

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

As P4-630 has stated, Kombustor stresses your GPU not your CPU. Run something like the CPU stress test from Aida64 and monitor with something like Core Temp to monitor CPU temps.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Part of the problem is that they have a single 120mm AIO cooling a CPU that is known to run hot at full speed.

Its not really adequate. Only thing i can suggest is make sure that you have all the spaces where you can mount fans populater for better airflow or get a better cooler.

 

[Regeneration]

MSI Kombustor also features CPU burner mode.

However, the stress and heat it produces isn't like Prime95 or Linpack.

Now with a case of this size:

Don't expect to run stress test apps.

But hey, at least it doesn't take a lot of space and it does look beautiful.

 

[mrthanhnguyen]

These i9 needs 280mm aio to cool it down. My 9900ks has 1 360 and 1 420 and it is hot under stress. 5ghz 1.1v during r20 and temp hit 60.

 

[Vario]

These i9 needs 280mm aio to cool it down. My 9900ks has 1 360 and 1 420 and it is hot under stress. 5ghz 1.1v during r20 and temp hit 60.

It needs to be underclocked and undervolted if using aircooler or a small AIO, that is for sure. It is perfectly manageable on thermals if the CPU is underclocked but for the Alienware Aurora R9's poor airflow case and small AIO cooler, its probably going to want to be around 4.2 GHz.

 

[AlexV860]

Thanks everybody, I have several stress tests that I have been using, from Kombustor, Intel's XTU, and yes Prime95. All of them have come up with similar readings. I just ordered an EVGA CLC 240mm cooler. I was going to go for the 360mm, however as @Regeneration & @Vario noted, space is pretty tight in the case. Additionally earlier today I ordered a 2080ti and had to opt out of the hybrid model for fear of lack of space to mount the extra fan, especially since eventual plan is another SLI setup. (Maybe) I've had so much trouble with RDR2 and my current SLI setup I'm beginning to have second thoughts on another SLI setup. Anyone know if the 240mm will be able to fit, or will I need to get creative? I'd really rather not have to cut holes into my new tower. I'm starting to wonder if I would get better performance if I reinstalled the original 9700k, gave it a strong OC and called it good.

 

[Vario]

Thanks everybody, I have several stress tests that I have been using, from Kombustor, Intel's XTU, and yes Prime95. All of them have come up with similar readings. I just ordered an EVGA CLC 240mm cooler. I was going to go for the 360mm, however as @Regeneration & @Vario noted, space is pretty tight in the case. Additionally earlier today I ordered a 2080ti and had to opt out of the hybrid model for fear of lack of space to mount the extra fan, especially since eventual plan is another SLI setup. (Maybe) I've had so much trouble with RDR2 and my current SLI setup I'm beginning to have second thoughts on another SLI setup. Anyone know if the 240mm will be able to fit, or will I need to get creative? I'd really rather not have to cut holes into my new tower. I'm starting to wonder if I would get better performance if I reinstalled the original 9700k, gave it a strong OC and called it good.

The 240mm is not going to fit in that case. You might be able to put the radiator outside and leave the side panel off. Instead you should be able to just undervolt and underclock the i9 9900 and then you wouldn't have to change the cooler. Its possible to get the i9 running at similar temperatures as the 9700K if its underclocked.

 

[AlexV860]

So far I have been able to find a stable clock with adaptive voltage at 1.275V, -.02v offset, 45x with std BCLK so it comes in at just shy of 4.5ghz. Cache ratio 41. Put it all together and it gives it a max temp of 71C. I am still in the process of trying to dial down the voltage to see if I can squeeze a little more out of it somewhere.


Edit:
Hi again everyone. I'm at a loss for how to continue, as I have found a stable setting as listed below, but I actually havent found an unstable setting yet, just too hot of settings or ones that cause EDP Limit throttling. I'm just unsure as to how I should proceed from here or just call it good. I'm new to this in-depth of OCing. Anyone with any suggestions? Should I turn up the Voltage and down the offset to push it a little closer to its temp limit? (I've been imagining 80C to be a safe limit.) Unsure if that's high enough.

At current config it idles around 30-37C and 1.08-1.17V. During stress testing it heats up to a max of 71C.

My all core max turbo ratio x46,
core 1.2V w/ -.02V offset. Core Icc max 184,
Turbo Short power Max 276.5W, Turbo Boost Max 238W and a Turbo Boost Power Time Window of 28s.
Cache ratio 42, Cache Icc Max 184A
All the settings for iGPU are stock
Memory is set on XMP2, which is 2933MHz

Thanks again everyone.
Wash those hands

 

[Vario]

If the highest you see is 1.275V and 71C, you are fine. If you experience really high temperatures, lowering the short power and long power watt max will help as the CPU will throttle more aggressively. For the machine I assembled, I set them to 150 watt short and 100 watt long.

 

[AlexV860]

If the highest you see is 1.275V and 71C, you are fine.

right now its max voltage is 1.206V
I'm just wondering if I can squeeze anything more out of it by doing anything else. What kind of "else?" idk, there are a ton of settings in the XTU that i havent touched, which is why I'm asking. I still don't really understand the difference between adjusting the core voltage or the offset. I also am confused about the difference between the turbo boost power max and short power max. Both of which I just turned up by 25-50w increments whenever I would hit power limit throttling. As such I'm certain they could be dialed in more.
What about the turbo boost time window? Is that the max time it can run turbo boost or the amount of time between turbo boost periods? Are there any changes to the cache I could make?
What about BCLK changes? System Agent Voltage Offset? Would any of them apply to my situation?
I just tried RDR2 and it definitely has made an improvement to my framerate of a good 15+ fps. It must have been temp throttling the entire time. Unfortunately I still have no control over the fan speeds, as I have uninstalled Alienware CC because it was buggy and messed with my OC settings for my CPU and GPU. I have tried Speedstep, HW Monitor, still unable to access any control of the fan curves. Afterburner allowed me to control my GPU fans, but not the case fans themselves. Have any of you had any success getting control of the fans on an AW or Dell?

 

[Animalpak]

That CPU is running 5 Ghz at stock not 4 Ghz …

Already pushed to its limits…

If you want to getting more, go ahead with liquid nitrogen... And with that Alienware you dont go anywhere… Weak cheap motherboard poor memory ram's all green and generic powersuplly the prebuild systems disease, those components cheap are holding you too.

 

[dgianstefani]

1.2v is very low for the 9900ks. You should be able to push anywhere up to 1.35/1.4v comfortably.

Either swap the trash Aurora case with a laughable 120mm AIO, or swap the cooler to something actually suitable.

 

[AlexV860]

That CPU is running 5 Ghz at stock not 4 Ghz ...

What do you mean? It has a stock multiplier of 40x with a max boost mult. of 50x stock. The 9900k has a base clock of 3.6, and can also boost to 5ghz, but 9900ks has 5ghz boost on all cores.
While the CPU may have those settings stock, I am having cooling issues with my stock AIO water cooling.

 

[Vario]

1.2v is very low for the 9900ks. You should be able to push anywhere up to 1.35/1.4v comfortably.

Either swap the trash Aurora case with a laughable 120mm AIO, or swap the cooler to something actually suitable.

1.2V is a perfectly good voltage for a 9900KS installed in a Alienware which has a motherboard VRM design that is not suited for powering such a CPU. Ignore the Intel specification of 5+GHz turbo. Installed in an Alienware, 4.5GHz is plenty. Furthermore, the extra 500 MHz is not worth the increased risk of damage to the motherboard, powersupply, etc.

Intel designed these to boost to 5+ and draw unlimited quantities of power under an assumption that the owner is running a top of the line Z390 with a high airflow case, giant power supply, and an impressive watercooling loop.

Questions

I'm just wondering if I can squeeze anything more out of it by doing anything else. What kind of "else?" idk, there are a ton of settings in the XTU that i havent touched, which is why I'm asking. I still don't really understand the difference between adjusting the core voltage or the offset.
Core voltage is fixed voltage, as in you set it and it stays there always even at idle. Offset mode reduces voltage when in idle or lower power states based on the CPU's built in frequency to voltage table, the CPU's frequency is looked up and the CPU requests a VID voltage value. The motherboard then tries to supply that VID value, though generally not exactly that amount. The offset allows you to reduce or increase the voltage supplied. So if a hypothetical CPU wants 1.3V for 5 GHz and you run offset mode with -20mv setting it will try to supply 1.28V.
I also am confused about the difference between the turbo boost power max and short power max.
Short power max is the maximum amount of power that the CPU is allowed before it throttles for a short period. I presume that turbo boost power max is likely the same as the long power on other motherboards, the long power max would be how much power it can draw for a longer period than the short power limit before it throttles down.
What about the turbo boost time window? Is that the max time it can run turbo boost or the amount of time between turbo boost periods?
Yes
Are there any changes to the cache I could make?
You could increase your northbridge aka cache aka uncore frequency. This is set with the cache multiplier. This will provide a slight benefit, you might be able to get it close to the same as the core clock.
What about BCLK changes? System Agent Voltage Offset? Would any of them apply to my situation?
Leave BCLCK alone. System agent voltage should be checked in windows to ensure it isn't drastically overvolting your integrated memory controller when you have XMP enabled, you can go up to 1.2V for SA and 1.2 for VCCIO though likely you need less than 1.1V for these. They don't really apply to your situation.
Have any of you had any success getting control of the fans on an AW or Dell?
Can't really help you there besides I once used a program on a dell laptop to adjust the fan, but I don't recall the name.

 

[AlexV860]

It will definitely run at 1.35V, but as we have discussed, my cooler just can't handle it. This has become more of an undervolt build rather than more traditional overclock.
Update on previous post: I changed my order for my new 2080ti to the FTW3 Ultra Hybrid since I'm going to have to most likely place my new cooling radiator outside my tower so I'll put my GPU cooler where the 120mm CPU radiator was.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It will definitely run at 1.35V, but as we have discussed, my cooler just can't handle it. This has become more of an undervolt build rather than more traditional overclock.
Update on previous post: I changed my order for my new 2080ti to the FTW3 Ultra Hybrid since I'm going to have to most likely place my new cooling radiator outside my tower so I'll put my GPU cooler where the 120mm CPU radiator was.

Hopefully this is a lesson not to pay Dell to ship you an inadequate system regardless of how cool it may look. Hopefully the motherboard they've used can actually handle a 9900KS for prolonged use from a vrm perspective.... Make sure you have good airflow going over it to be on the safe side.

 

[Vario]

Hopefully this is a lesson not to pay Dell to ship you an inadequate system regardless of how cool it may look. Hopefully the motherboard they've used can actually handle a 9900KS for prolonged use from a vrm perspective.... Make sure you have good airflow going over it to be on the safe side.

It should be fine if he sets the long and short power limits to reasonable levels, seeing as the i9 9900 (non k) is 65W TDP and the 9700K that that Aurora came with has a 95W TDP rating, he could set his max power limit to say 100 or a bit less to prolong the hardware. The 9900K can underclock and undervolt quite well and is actually quite good on power if set to 4.0 to 4.5GHz range, the issue is just that the stock values are unreasonable. The extra frequency really doesn't matter much beyond bragging rights, its better to have a cool running system that doesn't fail and cost a lot to fix.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It should be fine if he sets the long and short power limits to reasonable levels, seeing as the i9 9900 (non k) is 65W TDP and the 9700K that that Aurora came with has a 95W TDP rating, he could set his max power limit to say 100 or a bit less to prolong the hardware. The 9900K can underclock and undervolt quite well and is actually quite good on power if set to 4.0 to 4.5GHz range, the issue is just that the stock values are unreasonable. The extra frequency really doesn't matter much beyond bragging rights, its better to have a cool running system that doesn't fail and cost a lot to fix.

if you pair it with a 2080 ti and play a lot of MP games the extra frequency helps especially in games like BFV but I agree its not worth it if you have to leave radiators outside your case and worry about your vrm catching on fire.

 

[AlexV860]

It should be fine if he sets the long and short power limits to reasonable levels, seeing as the i9 9900 (non k) is 65W TDP and the 9700K that that Aurora came with has a 95W TDP rating, he could set his max power limit to say 100 or a bit less to prolong the hardware. The 9900K can underclock and undervolt quite well and is actually quite good on power if set to 4.0 to 4.5GHz range, the issue is just that the stock values are unreasonable. The extra frequency really doesn't matter much beyond bragging rights, its better to have a cool running system that doesn't fail and cost a lot to fix.

Well I thought I was good on my settings, but under 100? My IccMax is 205A, at 170 it starts EDP throttling. My Turbo Max is 238a, and short power max is 276a. Which should I start lowering first?

 

[Vario]

Well I thought I was good on my settings, but under 100? My IccMax is 205A, at 170 it starts EDP throttling. My Turbo Max is 238a, and short power max is 276a. Which should I start lowering first?

A Messy Situation: Intel's Stock Profile and Power Limits

If you have followed the reviews of Intel's new mainstream top model, i9-9900K, closely you may have seen that performance, heat and power consumption are all over the place. This is nothing new as some review sites benchmark with Intel's recommended stock profile while others prefer the...

www.overclockers.at

IccMax, a limit dedicated to the VRMs restricting current on all parts of the CPU like its cache, the iGPU and the cores as a whole. Intel recommends 193 Ampere as stock value for an average system within the specifications (DDR4 @2466 MHz). In our tests IccMax, sometimes called "CPU Core/Cache Current Limit Max" will only interfere with turbo frequencies when Power Limits are raised to a certain level. More on that later in our benchmarks.
...
here are the recommended stock values for Intel:

• PL1: TDP of the CPU - 95 Watts for 9900K
• PL2: 1.25x PL1 - 118.75 Watts for 9900K
• Tau: 28 seconds

PL2 is less restricted though and Intel states that the value should match the maximum power and cooling capability of the platform. System integrators may chose a value that depends on the system's PSU, VRMs of the mainboard and the cooler.
...
PL1 95W, PL2 119W, IccMax 193A: This is the most conservative Stock Profile that Intel recommends.

Based on this article, you could try ICC Max 193A Turbo Max 95W Short Power Max 119W. Give it a load test and see what the temperatures and voltages are.

 

[king of swag187]

Bad airflow with a mediocre cooler combined with a auto OC? Houston we have a problem

 

[xBruce88x]

Could be some aggressive voltage setting if your using the preset from alienware.

Amps x volts = wattage... Lower the voltage and the watts (both power and heat) goes down

Also, there's a chance you didn't win the silicon lottery