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Finally buildiing a new system ( AM4 )

dgianstefani

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It isn't though. Those are not mutually exclusive. YOu can have CPU limited things with bandwidth and latency not the issue...

but... I digress. THis is getting old. :)
So cool how you request evidence for my statements but provide none for yours.

Memory bandwidth and latency are half of the story.

Infinity fabric being tied to memory speed is the other half.

Memory speed directly affects all aspects of CPU performance with Ryzen CPUs.
 
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So cool how you request evidence for my statements but provide none for yours.

Memory bandwidth and latency are half of the story.

Infinity fabric being tied to memory speed is the other half.

Memory speed directly affects all aspects of CPU performance with Ryzen CPUs.
Old now bro we moved on since you helpfully provided our evidence too.
 
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Just did two builds ....

1. Same as yours but with MSI MoBo, 3900X and same RAM .... that one is here (youngest son)
2. Other one had Intel 9900KF, MSI MoBo and same RAM ... one of his friends

By the way, the RAM was chosen cause it was RGB much to my chagrim, not it's perfomance.

Haven't overclocked anything yet. Wanted to get a good baseline for 30 days before attempting that, not that I had to convince them as they were anxious to play ... may not get 2nd back till after shelter-in-place restrictions lessen. Initial impressions ...

-In every day tasks they run about the same (office suites, web usage, etc) ... didn't do any real application benchmarking
-Both are general usage builds, no heavy duty apps other than Video and Photo Editing
-Builds had different GFX cards (both nVidias) but used same GFX card for comparisons ... In testing just a few games, I couldn't really tell any difference @ 1440p, 165 HZ. Based upon TPU results, I expect the Intel system would be 2-4% faster.
-In video / image editing, again TPU has Intel a 5-10% edge to Intel but in the little time I spent w/ each box ... i couldn't notice any significant performance differences.

Did enable XMP on both boxes but didn't do any CPU or memory overclocking as yet, Graphics cards were OC'd. Both users seems more interested in RGB than performance which had me grimacing throughout.

Unfortunately, when this issue comes up, people will skew tha data to fit their own preconceived conclusion. Data that support that conclusion is relevant and data which disproves it is irrelevant. It's like if you can buy the same SUV with or without air conditioning or with / without 4WD fro the same proce or a small bump is it worth it ? We saw that with PhysX, we see it with memory speed, we see it with number of cores, we see it with many things.

One can argue that, AC is no big deal because you only really need it for 2 months out of the year ... so it doesn't matter. Well it does matter during those 2 months. One can argue that, 4WD is no big deal because you only really need it when it snows ... so it doesn't matter. Well it does matter when you stuck in the snow with no cell service. If you never play Battlefield, Kingdom Come or any game like them, then no it doesn't matter. F1 is another game that loves fast memory... the STALKER series was another. If you play those games on a 144 / 165 Hz monitor and get frustrated by that 1% stuttering, then you're gonna want that faster memory. If you don't play them or have a 60 Hz monitor, it's not going to help you/

My toolbox / bench has 6 different hammers, and yes I use all of them ... my wife's toolbox has a small ball peen hammer which she uses to hang pictures on the wall. Who's right ? Components are tools and each individual should pick the tool that best fits their needs. Just because my wife will never benefit from having more hammers, that doesn't make me buying 6 of them (rubber mallet, 1H Sledge, 2H Sledge, tack hammer, heavy carpentry and all-purpose) a foolish decision.... also have 3 battery powered drills - light, mdium and heavy duty (w/ screw attachments) and an air nailer.

If I get around to playing with the LPX , I'll try and come back and post the results
 

AsRock

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Hi, ii cannot get that ram until mid next month and was holding every thing up, are the higher rated ones as good as these as they are in stock.

For example


Or just say f it and get these 32GB 3200 sticks, which i know would be useful for our 7days to die gaming me and my wife do. Custom maps are done in physical memory which limits the size of the map your building.
 
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TheLostSwede

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Hi, ii cannot get that ram until mid next month and was holding every thing, are the higher rated ones as good as these as they are in stock.

For example


Or just say f it and get these 32GB 3200 sticks, which i know would be useful for our 7days to die gaming me and my wife do. Custom maps are done in physical memory which limits the size of the map your building.
I think, as I don't know this for sure, that the higher speed ones are using the same chips, simply at higher latencies. This is obviously a guess, but I'm fairly certain they can run at tighter timings. All of the kits have the same base timings.
 

AsRock

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I think, as I don't know this for sure, that the higher speed ones are using the same chips, simply at higher latencies. This is obviously a guess, but I'm fairly certain they can run at tighter timings. All of the kits have the same base timings.

Going get the 3200 2x16 sticks, hopefully all goes well lol.
 

TheLostSwede

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Going get the 3200 2x16 sticks, hopefully all goes well lol.

Makes sense in terms of cost if nothing else, as 2x 16GB is a lot cheaper than 4x 8GB.
I have a feeling they might work at 3600MHz, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 

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Makes sense in terms of cost if nothing else, as 2x 16GB is a lot cheaper than 4x 8GB.
I have a feeling they might work at 3600MHz, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Just changed it to the 2x16GB sticks, still got to wait till mid next month haha, apparently when they say they are in stock they mean more on the way.

Anyways time will tell.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 

TheLostSwede

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Just changed it to the 2x16GB sticks, still got to wait till mid next month haha, apparently when they say they are in stock they mean more on the way.

Anyways time will tell.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Urgh, got to love Amazon at times...
Could also be because it's a non essential item, so it doesn't have any priority?
 
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Hi, ii cannot get that ram until mid next month and was holding every thing up, are the higher rated ones as good as these as they are in stock.

For example


Or just say f it and get these 32GB 3200 sticks, which i know would be useful for our 7days to die gaming me and my wife do. Custom maps are done in physical memory which limits the size of the map your building.
I've seen no issues personally with patriot viper kits, I've Rma'd two Corsair vengeance and a gigabyte set, they're good for compatibility.
As for 32GB that's a choice for you bro.
 

AsRock

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Urgh, got to love Amazon at times...
Could also be because it's a non essential item, so it doesn't have any priority?

Might be but i bet it be a lot faster if i was paying extra to be a prime member
 

AsRock

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Well got the CPU and ram a few days ago, dam that chip is heavy haha. Just waiting on the mobo now (Tomorrow). Dam i hate Amazon shipping bs, says it's due tomorrow and says it's not shipped yet lmao.

@TheLostSwede

I had to split the order up to get them ship them when available.
 
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it's heavy because it comes with a large useless cooler. Unless you like hitting over 85C in heavy loads even at low ambients then its the cooler for you.

To be fair it's till night and day better than what intel gives us which is usually nothing with their cpu worth buying.
 

AsRock

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it's heavy because it comes with a large useless cooler. Unless you like hitting over 85C in heavy loads even at low ambients then its the cooler for you.

To be fair it's till night and day better than what intel gives us which is usually nothing with their cpu worth buying.

I wasn't on about the cooler, but the CPU it's self.

Anyways did a little fiddling. was a total pain at 1st until i updated the bios from 2.20 as apparently, i am only running the CPU at 3800MHz right now as i wanted to get rid of the crazy 1.5v on the cores which in turn pushed the idle temps to 53c. All so wanted to see if ii could at least get this memory to 3200 before messing with any thing else CPU related as voltages are not that clear.

 
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I wasn't on about the cooler, but the CPU it's self.

Anyways did a little fiddling. was a total pain at 1st until i updated the bios from 2.20 as apparently, i am only running the CPU at 3800MHz right now as i wanted to get rid of the crazy 1.5v on the cores which in turn pushed the idle temps to 53c. All so wanted to see if ii could at least get this memory to 3200 before messing with any thing else CPU related as voltages are not that clear.

That's a spike and not the true ambient temp but who cares if it spikes up to 50c and back down over and over again while it's constantly boosting as long as it doesn't go over the max temp when it's fully loaded it doesn't make any real difference to your system. You should let pbo and auto boost do its thing and leave it at that imo
 
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I agree, the only temp with Ryzen 3000 that matters is what it hits under heavy sustained load.
 

TheLostSwede

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I wasn't on about the cooler, but the CPU it's self.

Anyways did a little fiddling. was a total pain at 1st until i updated the bios from 2.20 as apparently, i am only running the CPU at 3800MHz right now as i wanted to get rid of the crazy 1.5v on the cores which in turn pushed the idle temps to 53c. All so wanted to see if ii could at least get this memory to 3200 before messing with any thing else CPU related as voltages are not that clear.

With Ryzen, it's important to use the latest UEFI/BIOS, as there are a lot of fixes that are needed. Be glad you weren't an early adopter, as the platform took about three months to get stable and another couple of months to be really good. Can't speak for ASRocks implementations though, but keep in mind that the temperature spikes are from sensors inside the cores, so they're quite different to what we're used to, hence the very fast up and downs. It's really nothing to worry about. What you should look at is the motherboard CPU temp, as it's more representative of what we're used to seeing in older platforms.
 

AsRock

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But what about the CPU voltage ?, or they just spikes too ?. i guess i be better of monitoring the temps and voltages just to make sure they are not staying high for long ?.
Although it's going get hotter here soon so gotta be careful their too.

With Ryzen, it's important to use the latest UEFI/BIOS, as there are a lot of fixes that are needed. Be glad you weren't an early adopter, as the platform took about three months to get stable and another couple of months to be really good. Can't speak for ASRocks implementations though, but keep in mind that the temperature spikes are from sensors inside the cores, so they're quite different to what we're used to, hence the very fast up and downs. It's really nothing to worry about. What you should look at is the motherboard CPU temp, as it's more representative of what we're used to seeing in older platforms.

Yeah their is a bunch of needed ones. i didn't once i knew it was stable was due to the fixes they said they had done since 2.20, i guess i should of known better.
2.602020/4/1613.70MBInstant Flash How to Update
1. Add auto rule for specific memory module.
2. Improve UAD-2 DUO audio card compatibility.​
2.302020/2/1913.70MBInstant Flash How to Update
Support individual SATA port control in BIOS setup.​
 
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The parts i am looking at are

CORSAIR VENGEANCELPX16GB (2x 8GB)

All I can add is stay away from Corsair on ram. Really!
 

TheLostSwede

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But what about the CPU voltage ?, or they just spikes too ?. i guess i be better of monitoring the temps and voltages just to make sure they are not staying high for long ?.
Although it's going get hotter here soon so gotta be careful their too.



Yeah their is a bunch of needed ones. i didn't once i knew it was stable was due to the fixes they said they had done since 2.20, i guess i should of known better.
2.602020/4/1613.70MBInstant Flash How to Update
1. Add auto rule for specific memory module.
2. Improve UAD-2 DUO audio card compatibility.​
2.302020/2/1913.70MBInstant Flash How to Update
Support individual SATA port control in BIOS setup.​

Yeah, the Voltages are all over the place with Ryzen 3000. As long as you don't go over 1.5-ish Volts when it peaks, you're fine. There were threads upon threads when the Ryzen 3000-series launched with people freaking out about the high peak Voltages, but AMD has confirmed it's all normal behaviour. Again, the sensors are different from past CPUs and are much more accurate, as such there are a lot more fluctuations than what you might be used to.
You can't even monitor things like before, as it jumps up and down within a few ms, so a lot of the software doesn't respond quickly enough for those kind of fluctuations.
Download Ryzen Master and you'll see that some of the graphs goes crazy over time.

They're all stable, nothing to worry about, install the 2.60 release. ASRock seem to have worse release notes than the competition though. I never understood the crappy release from these companies, as if they're trying to hide the fixes they've implemented.
 
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Yeah, the Voltages are all over the place with Ryzen 3000. As long as you don't go over 1.5-ish Volts when it peaks, you're fine. There were threads upon threads when the Ryzen 3000-series launched with people freaking out about the high peak Voltages, but AMD has confirmed it's all normal behaviour. Again, the sensors are different from past CPUs and are much more accurate, as such there are a lot more fluctuations than what you might be used to.
You can't even monitor things like before, as it jumps up and down within a few ms, so a lot of the software doesn't respond quickly enough for those kind of fluctuations.
Download Ryzen Master and you'll see that some of the graphs goes crazy over time.

They're all stable, nothing to worry about, install the 2.60 release. ASRock seem to have worse release notes than the competition though. I never understood the crappy release from these companies, as if they're trying to hide the fixes they've implemented.

I'd add that the spikes are not random, they are user created for one and two that just by monitoring it you are doing it wrong. Before I continue I'd mention that users should choose to monitor die average cpu temp and not bny default sit and watch individual cores get unparked in context switches. What you describe is the observer effect which was featured on TPU, that makes it doubly ironic. And then there's the difference between discrete cpu clocks which "has" been the default way to read clocks but is not inaccurate, very inaccurate on Zen 2+ which leads us to AMD's effective clock. Add to this even more new and different ways AMD has changed the game with FIT voltage and how low threaded low load voltage is used. Take their use of FIT voltage, effective clock, and user created observer effects and the regular joe user is completely confused. Shit isn't doing what I think it is supposed to, or is it?

Observer effect

Effective clocks

Not really final final cuz it doesn't get into voltage limits, see link below
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g
Welcome to FIT voltage
 

TheLostSwede

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@thesmokingman I was trying to go for a simple explanation here, as I don't think the OP or most people care about most of what's included in your post. However, I did not say the Voltage spikes were random. Please don't try to put words into my mouth so to speak.

Things are getting very complex with these new CPUs and yes, maybe I should've pointed out that running almost anything that checks the frequency of the CPU makes it and the Voltage jump/spike. However, how many people actually care about this? I think some people are simply too paranoid and worry about things that I'm not sure it's worth worrying about.
 

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Memory seems to be holding up at 3600 ( only 2fps in it anyways ), finally got around in trying it. I will just run them at spec. Just wanted to let @theoneandonlymrk know how they are running.

According to Thaiphoon Burner the chips are CJR

 
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Memory seems to be holding up at 3600 ( only 2fps in it anyways ), finally got around in trying it. I will just run them at spec. Just wanted to let @theoneandonlymrk know how they are running.

According to Thaiphoon Burner the chips are CJR

See how it goes it's worth running some memory Tests though and if possible monitor your memory temperature for a bit.
Looking good the gain's beyond that are minimal.
 
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