Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs

[Retrorockit]

I hope somebody will prove me wrong about that.

 

[EarthDog]

At OCN 4.5GHz is considered normal. That gets into QPI links, various Voltage offsets, RAM timings and. Almost 1000 pages of it. That's why I started a separate forum for TS overclocking.
They have almost nothing in common.
The word I used was "complex", not "difficult".

Fine. More complex than mindlessly flipping the CPU multi, I'll give you that. But it's easy to wrap your head around it. If I can do it......lol....

Actually looking closer I'm seeing a multiplier of 38 on a locked CPU so I'm going to say it's bogus.

I hope somebody will prove me wrong about that.

It doesn't appear to be bogus. I see over 200 bclk with using a lower multipler than max... quite common on that platform.

EDIT: Here are other results (including that same one) from hwbot.org. You'll see all CPUz screenshots are showing the same thing with that CPU (high bclk, middling multi).

CPU Frequency overclocking records @ HWBOT

Overclocking records

hwbot.org

 

[Retrorockit]

The CPU can do that.
It's the 5GHz Dell T5500 that appears bogus. I edited this link in but it got dropped, so I'll try again here.

Intel Xeon @ 5053.24 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[zqtdfm] Validated Dump by AILEM-PC (2016-07-06 21:17:25) - MB: Dell 0CRH6C - RAM: 11262 MB

valid.x86.fr

I would love to have someone tell me how to get 38x133 on a pair of HT X5687 in a Dell T5500 workstation. Even single CPU.
The reason for the "mindless" multiplier overclocking is it's the only game in town for Dell and HP workstation overclocking. Also many other OEM systems. It really is a separate subject than BCLK overclocking. Completely different computers in most cases.
HWBOT is useful for Intel XTU overclocking of systems newer than X58 and relevant to HP Z420, or Dell T3610 workstations. But again it requires unlocked CPUs. Usually the unlocked Xeons are the best choice.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The CPU can do that.
It's the 5GHz Dell T5500 that appears bogus. I edited this link in but it got dropped, so I'll try again here.

Intel Xeon @ 5053.24 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[zqtdfm] Validated Dump by AILEM-PC (2016-07-06 21:17:25) - MB: Dell 0CRH6C - RAM: 11262 MB

valid.x86.fr

I would love to have someone tell me how to get 38x133 on a pair of HT X5687 in a Dell T5500 workstation. Even single CPU.
The reason for the "mindless" multiplier overclocking is it's the only game in town for Dell and HP workstation overclocking. Also many other OEM systems. It really is a separate subject than BCLK overclocking. Completely different computers in most cases.
HWBOT is useful for Intel XTU overclocking of systems newer than X58 and relevant to HP Z420, or Dell T3610 workstations. But again it requires unlocked CPUs. Usually the unlocked Xeons are the best choice.

Perhaps it's a hardware+software(bios) mod? I wonder what role Thottlestop might be playing, if it's real?

 

[Retrorockit]

I've seen a lot of these at CPUZ on locked multiplier CPUs. Basically any X5xxx dual QPI Xeon with a multiplier overclock looks bogus.
I'm used to seeing them in first place there, and on an Asus MB. But now the Dell workstations are getting in the act.
But it's just a mindless multiplier overclock. So I'm sure Underdog can do it easily.

There were unlocked dual CPU LGA771 CPUs. May be there is a pinmod multiplier unlock out there? But I've seen a lot of them at CPUZ and if so the secret is well kept. Not just the specific method, but not even a hint of the practice existing. Also no known LGA775/771 unlocks which would be the logical starting point for that.

 

[EarthDog]

HWBOT is useful for Intel XTU overclocking of systems newer than X58 and relevant to HP Z420, or Dell T3610 workstations. But again it requires unlocked CPUs. Usually the unlocked Xeons are the best choice.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. I simply linked hwbot to show you that running a high bclk and lower cpu multi is possible on that CPU. Those aren't unlocked CPUs, the X5687s (are they?).

But it's just a mindless multiplier overclock. So I'm sure Underdog can do it easily.

Why are you insulting me? Did I miss something?

If you are calling BCLK overclocking complex (which I conceded to, more or less), isn't CPU multiplier overclocking easier? It's pretty mindless to just add multi and vcore. You don't have to worry about the other 'complexities' mentioned. My hardcore subambient overclocking days started just before X58 so I am intimately familiar with the platform (though my memory blows!).

EDIT: I have no idea on the Dell.

EDIT2: You meant the Dell in the first place I guess? Apologies man... but there isn't a need to be flippant in your response and twist my name around...

 

[Retrorockit]

This thread is about software overclocking locked BIOS computers.
So BCLK overclocking except SetFSB or Clockgen is pretty much OT here.
That's why I refer people to other sites for that information. Politely.
To call multiplier overclocking "mindless" pretty much insults everyone here. We're all doing it on locked BIOS computers that most people think can't be overclocked at all. BCLK doesn't work on our computers.
We have our own space for this so as not to disturb people who prefer the more traditional methods.
Starting an argument over which overclocking method is better or worse is basically just trolling.
We're overclocking different computers. Some people get these old workstations for free.
Since you're not familiar with this I will help you.
Discovering unlocked CPUs is job #1 here. Especially the undocumented unlocked Xeons.
CPUZ has a problem with posting high multiplier overclocks on locked CPUs. It's a known issue here.
Here's a W5580 5.6Ghz Nehalem at CPUZ showing a 42x overclock. It's in 1st ranking on an Asus P6T.

Intel Xeon W5580 @ 5612.23 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[81teia] Validated Dump by 123456-PC (2016-01-19 05:52:34) - MB: Asus P6T - RAM: 4096 MB

valid.x86.fr

We tried it. It's locked. Even an ES somebody tried was locked.
This may be confusing to traditional overclockers because the 2QPI Xeons are quite popular for that method. But they won't work at all for what we're doing here.
The only LGA1366 2 CPU overclocks that are known to be legitimate are the EVGA SR2. All BCLK method.
There has been some small success with a 2 CPU overclock using SetFSB on a Dell T7500 but without Voltage control it doesn't amount to much.

 

[EarthDog]

This thread is about software overclocking locked BIOS computers.
So BCLK overclocking except SetFSB or Clockgen is pretty much OT here.
That's why I refer people to other sites for that information. Politely.
To call multiplier overclocking "mindless" pretty much insults everyone here. We're all doing it on locked BIOS computers that most people think can't be overclocked at all. BCLK doesn't work on our computers.
We have our own space for this so as not to disturb people who prefer the more traditional methods.
Starting an argument over which overclocking method is better or worse is basically just trolling.
We're overclocking different computers. Some people get these old workstations for free.
Since you're not familiar with this I will help you.
Discovering unlocked CPUs is job #1 here. Especially the undocumented unlocked Xeons.
CPUZ has a problem with posting high multiplier overclocks on locked CPUs. It's a known issue here.
Here's a W5580 5.6Ghz Nehalem at CPUZ showing a 42x overclock. It's in 1st ranking on an Asus P6T.

Intel Xeon W5580 @ 5612.23 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[81teia] Validated Dump by 123456-PC (2016-01-19 05:52:34) - MB: Asus P6T - RAM: 4096 MB

valid.x86.fr

We tried it. It's locked. Even an ES somebody tried was locked.
This may be confusing to traditional overclockers because the 2QPI Xeons are quite popular for that method. But they won't work at all for what we're doing here.
The only LGA1366 2 CPU overclocks that are known to be legitimate are the EVGA SR2. All BCLK method.
There has been some small success with a 2 CPU overclock using SetFSB on a Dell T7500 but without Voltage control it doesn't amount to much.

Calling a method (you arent even using?) mindless isn't insulting anyone. It is the process that is easy/mindless, not the users doing it. This wasn't about preference of anything or to argue (your hackles went up instantly, though..). I simply tried to help, but seems that was misplaced...my apologies but there is no need to be insult anyone like that...wow...

 

[95Viper]

Stay on topic and take any personal things to PMs.

Thank You and Have a Nice Day.

 

[lexluthermiester]

After recent discussions and having taken in a few W3680's at my shop I wanted to try them out and use them. ThrottleStop easily allowed for an OC in both of my T3500's.

Of the 3 W3680's I have, one of them is limited to 3.86ghz OC, seemingly due to silicon lottery. The other two however both got to 4.13ghz(31multi). One needed settings in the "TPL" screen to be raised to 140w TDP and 114 TDC. The other needed 135w TDP and 112 TDC.

What surprised me was that while CPU benchmarks increased by levels that would be expected, GFX and game benchmark didn't increase by much. This strongly suggests that my systems are not CPU bottlenecked. I found this very interesting.

 

[Retrorockit]

What GPU are you using? At userbenchmark that setup should be good for about an 80% CPU ranking. Typically workstations are underendowed in that area. Even with a high spec. workstation GPU gaming is not that great. I think it would take a pretty strong GPU to choke one of these things. The front runners at userbenchmark are running GTX1080/2080.

UserBenchmark: Dell Precision WorkStation T3500 Compatible Components

 

[lexluthermiester]

What GPU are you using? At userbenchmark that setup should be good for about an 80% CPU ranking. Typically workstations are underendowed in that area. Even with a high spec. workstation GPU gaming is not that great. I think it would take a pretty strong GPU to choke one of these things. The front runners at userbenchmark are running GTX1080/2080.

UserBenchmark: Dell Precision WorkStation T3500 Compatible Components

In one I have my EVGA RTX2080, which is my main gaming machine. In the other I have a GTX980. It had a GTX1070, but my daughter wanted to play a gaming that the GTX980 was struggling with so I traded her.

 

[Retrorockit]

So the base clock W3680 doesn't bottleneck a RTX2080. It's a good thing the overclock is free.
Sounds like you need to add another GPU to solve your "problem".
Since you have a good GPU in one of these could you run Supersposition and get a score there? IDK if any one has run that with one of these.

 

[lexluthermiester]

So the base clock W3680 doesn't bottleneck a RTX2080. It's a good thing the overclock is free.
Sounds like you need to add another GPU to solve your "problem".

Right? I was going to upgrade my gaming system, but nothing I'm running is lagging. So I'm good for a little while.

 

[Retrorockit]

Some benchmark don't always read TS correctly. The computer boots one clock in the BIOS and then another with TS in Windows. Sleep/ Restore gets them in synch. . Geekbench was funny. It refused to accept a run unless I did the 2 step, and then it charted the performance increase on the graph, but at the base CPU speed.
Do you think another subsytem is holding it back? Or the GPU doesn't need the help?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Do you think another subsytem is holding it back? Or the GPU doesn't need the help?

Honestly, I think it depends on the game/program. For example, GTA5 doesn't run so well until I turn a few things down. I have to drop to 1080p to get a solid 120fps. With all the benchmarking I did, everything was running at 720p so that CPU would have to work harder than the GPU. This is how I discovered these W3680 are not bottlenecking the GPU's they're paired with.

 

[Retrorockit]

So that's a good thing then. But the overclock didn't help? Hmmmmmmmmm. Just wondering what latency and speed RAM you have. I'm assuming 1333, but did you go with ECC or not?

 

[lexluthermiester]

So that's a good thing then. But the overclock didn't help? Hmmmmmmmmm. Just wondering what latency and speed RAM you have. I'm assuming 1333, but did you go with ECC or not?

I think I wasn't very clear. The OC increased performance by a percentage that was expected. It's the overall results of the testing which showed that I'm not fully CPU bottlenecked. It seems right on the edge of it. I think if I were to put a 2080TI or an RTX Titan in the system, the CPU would become the bottleneck. I never expected that result.

 

[Retrorockit]

I'm relieved to hear the OC worked as expected. I'm not much of a gamer so dropping down from 1080 to load the CPU is not intuitive for me. I doubt if my X5470 Xeon would benefit from a bump up to 1440K very much.
From what I understand the first lap of a good racing sim with 30 cars on track tests a CPU due to the large number of physics problems it presents. I have no idea if any of them can access multiple cores. But even then the overclock should show it's merit.
I think a lot of people attribute bottlenecks to the CPU when it's a RAM capacity or bandwidth issue. 2 things the T3500 shouldn't have an issue with.

 

[rGBurninator]

Hey everyone, Sorry to intrude in the middle of any conversations that might be going on. I am new to the forum but not this page as I have read literally all 37 pages of this thread to help me with achieving the best performance out of my T3500. I started my T3500 adventure off with a X5570, 12gbs ECC 800 RAM, Raedeon HD 6950 Sapphire and stock case. It has been a long time since I have played with computers and really needed to build one with a tight budget in mind, so I did ALOT of research and that is what brought me to this machine, which I am really enjoying. I love getting the most out of older products by infusing modern technology into it, just gets me all kinds of jazzed. So anyway, before reading this forum I picked up a X5687 on eBay for $30 and a EVGA GTX 1060 SSC GPU for $75 locally, a free case, a USB 3.0 PCIe card, 24gbs of 10600 ECC RAM, Cooler Master 212 RGB Black Edition Cooler, Thermaltake 700w PSU and added 2 SSD's and a HDD, but wasn't super happy, just satisfied. After reading this post I realized I should have went with an unlocked CPU but after installing the ThrottleStop and applying turbo lock I am achieving pretty close to what I would get out of an unlocked CPU with a stock Dell system. Also I used EVGA's Precision OC software and played with numbers for a while to get the to that 60% mark on the GPU, I am very satisfied with this build and so with all that said I would like to introduce Red Beauty.

User Benchmark

 

[Retrorockit]

You're more than welcome to join the conversation. The X5687 is an excellent choice. I see you have a nice aftermarket heatsink installed. The 212 is a nice budget cooler. ATX case swap too!
The conversation going on now is Lexluthermeister is the first one here to install a modern gaming GPU in one of these. GTX2080 and he's finding no CPU bottleneck.
37 pages of reading requires some commitment, but trying to find this information in the other 1,000+ page overclocking forums or notebook modding sites is almost impossible.

 

[rGBurninator]

Well thank you! Yes, that 212 cooler was very inexpensive and works very well and yes a ATX case swap! haha, it took some modifying to get the MB to fit even with the case being a Cooler Master Haf X!! These CPU's amaze me more and more every time I read about them! No bottle necking is very impressive! Yes, it took about 3 days to read it all (full time work, dad and husband) but I go through it and man did it help! I was introduced to this particular forum page by william p over on Toms hardware. What did you think of the bench mark? Anything to improve?

 

[Retrorockit]

Benchmark is nice. You're getting more out of the 2 fan GPU than my single fan version can provide.
For a budget build I would have tried a RAID 0 which the T3500 BIOS supports with 2x, or even 3x small SSDs. Theoreticallly RAID0 3x SATA2 beats SATA3
That could have certainly handled the 6GB GTX1060 easily. But they are more expensive.
FWIW the X58 HP Z400 follows the ATX platform more closely than Dell. But the PSU pinout and MB versions need some attention.
It looks like you started with a MB and went from there. But the Dell T3500 case and PSU would work just fine. But the Dell case is designed to run sideways and is kind of thin due to that. Hard to fit a good ATX cooler in them.
But since overclocking X58 MB still go for $150 it's a good deal.
My guess is the overclocked 6 core would be beyond the capability of the Hyper 212 ATX cooler. What kind of temp. are you getting with the 4 core 212 setup? What you have may be a good match.
You might try turning off hyperthreading and see if the single core CPU rating goes up any. The overall CPU score is right in there with the best 6 cores but they would be weighted more towards the multicore end of the scale. The overall may be lower but the single thread might improve some. You're at 74% single core, and the overclocked W3690 is at 78%. Maybe for gaming you can catch them.

 

[rGBurninator]

The GPU I have currently have is what was available to me at the time given, granted I could have waited for a good deal on a 6gb bu who wants to wait! Same for the hrad drives, I only bought one of the SSD's the others we laying on a shelf in the garage given to me a while back from a buddy. I started with a complete Dell T3500 PC and really did not like the case and also wanted to do something that was different and I didn't seem to find many people that did a case swap on these units. Also, I know the stock PSU would work but I wanted a little bit more for comfort and also I had a gift card to Best Buy lol.
As far as temps go, at idle I am sitting around 26C -30C but haven't really done a stress test on it yet, the highest I have seen it while running a game or average use was about 40C. All the case fans and CPU cooler fan are running directly off the PSU at 12V and not very noisy at all to me. I will try to disable hyperthreading and see what kind of numbers I can get but being at 74% is pretty good for my standards as it is right now.

 

[Retrorockit]

Doing what you want with your computer is what we're all about here. For overclocking we run the CPUs that we have to, but the X5687 is great choice. Too bad it's not unlocked, it would be a real screamer." If you've seen one Dell workstation you've seen them all" is not too far from the truth..