(Anti) SFF fun house

[tabascosauz]

Red is most definitely in.

With the T60, lubed MX Silent Reds feel so good. Night Blue T60 on the way as well, gonna test out a new Dolch + TA90 combination with that one. The lubed Ink Reds in the other board pair well with the T60 too, but the Silent Reds are just...perfect. The lack of centre and spacebar posts helps a lot; with just the two left and two right screw posts, there's just the right amount of flex in the board to make for a soft-bottomed, thocky experience.

Not much new on the rig front; everything's just stable. The BR1500MS does its job every day with no complaints. I never thought I'd need a UPS before now, but this chunky brick saves me from an average of two brownouts a week. But I did dig this one out of the closet. I originally bought it for my first gen 12" Macbook, but it was a terrible laptop and supplanted by the XPS 13 for quite some time. I didn't realize that the CalDigit dock still works with anything that has a USB-C port. Helps me out a lot with connecting to my D610, M10-B, OP6T, external HDDs and SSDs, mic, and more.

These mini-ITX boards are always really short on I/O; it's super frustrating. Neither did mine have a C port, but the 2060 Super stepped in again to save the day with its Virtualink USB-C. It ain't the first time, either; the TU106 USB controller has always liked my Instant60 much more than the B450 PCH does.

And who said the FE cards are a bad buy??

 

[robot zombie]

I also wind up putting that same G.Skill badge on external peripherals. Unconsciously... every time I get one it winds up on an external HDD. I save all of the others in... an empty G.Skill RAM box, now that I think about it. I feel like I've seen it a lot, too. Sure, people do that with all sorts of badges, but that exact G.Skill one keeps popping up in pictures of little USB boxes... more than others. Almost always alone. I'm looking at my seagate 1tb HDD right now and wondering if this might be part of a previously unexplored Jungian archetype.

 

[potato580+]

Red is most definitely in.

With the T60, lubed MX Silent Reds feel so good. Night Blue T60 on the way as well, gonna test out a new Dolch + TA90 combination with that one. The lubed Ink Reds in the other board pair well with the T60 too, but the Silent Reds are just...perfect. The lack of centre and spacebar posts helps a lot; with just the two left and two right screw posts, there's just the right amount of flex in the board to make for a soft-bottomed, thocky experience.

Not much new on the rig front; everything's just stable. The BR1500MS does its job every day with no complaints. I never thought I'd need a UPS before now, but this chunky brick saves me from an average of two brownouts a week. But I did dig this one out of the closet. I originally bought it for my first gen 12" Macbook, but it was a terrible laptop and supplanted by the XPS 13 for quite some time. I didn't realize that the CalDigit dock still works with anything that has a USB-C port. Helps me out a lot with connecting to my D610, M10-B, OP6T, external HDDs and SSDs, mic, and more.

These mini-ITX boards are always really short on I/O; it's super frustrating. Neither did mine have a C port, but the 2060 Super stepped in again to save the day with its Virtualink USB-C. It ain't the first time, either; the TU106 USB controller has always liked my Instant60 much more than the B450 PCH does.

And who said the FE cards are a bad buy??

whos it? some of em maybe, not rly bad i own few fe/ref/blow model aswell, and it never crash even on high temp, usually 80-90c , as for me downside is noisy fan only

 

[tabascosauz]

I also wind up putting that same G.Skill badge on external peripherals. Unconsciously... every time I get one it winds up on an external HDD. I save all of the others in... an empty G.Skill RAM box, now that I think about it. I feel like I've seen it a lot, too. Sure, people do that with all sorts of badges, but that exact G.Skill one keeps popping up in pictures of little USB boxes... more than others. Almost always alone. I'm looking at my seagate 1tb HDD right now and wondering if this might be part of a previously unexplored Jungian archetype.

The drives always feel a bit too naked, so maybe these stickers can be a good luck charm of sorts I only have two of these newer G.skill stickers from the D-die kit and the current DJR kit, but I could have sworn there was a third from my old DDR3 Sniper kit that I gave away on here years ago...anyhow, it didn't make it onto my 1510, so whatever.

When in doubt, buy a Pelican. It allows you to collect stickers of all sorts while looking cool, always.

whos it? some of em maybe, not rly bad i own few fe/ref/blow model aswell, and it never crash even on high temp, usually 80-90c , as for me downside is noisy fan only

Nah, the axial FE coolers are good, especially the larger ones on the 2070 Super and above (2070 and below have the smaller one and run a few degrees hotter). Reasonably competitive with AIBs' dual-fan cards. It's just that the value isn't really there, since Nvidia just sells them at regular price and doesn't put them on sale. Although, I will say, I was glad to have paid some extra $$ getting it off the Nvidia website, because it was processed and shipped to my door before Newegg would have even started picking the product out of the warehouse!

It took a while for mine to break in and tame its coil whine. FE also doesn't have idle fan stop, and without the A12x25 feeding it directly from the bottom, the card would be in the low 80s in games (now it's at 69-72c). But nothing's perfect; I'd say the build quality, the small size, the 3-year direct warranty, the turnaround time and the USB-C port more than make up for all that.

Noise-wise, nothing's noisy. Not after you've experienced a first-generation R9 280X Vapor-X, a rebranded overclocked 7970GHz.

 

[tabascosauz]

At some point, I'm going to have to be honest with myself: I hate building small form factor.

I love the way these NCASE M1s, DAN-A4s, SM580s and Ghost S1s look. I love the way they fit in anywhere and go just about anywhere. I love the way the M1 fits in my Pelican 1510. But I hate cutting up my hands every time I need to contort a fan or SATA cable to get it where it needs to go. Or when I need to go through a A12x25, an audio cable, a A9, and the U9S heatsink just to reach the CMOS jumper so the computer can actually POST again.

The U9S is a great cooler - there's no doubt about that. But the advent of Matisse has essentially made it unbearable to use these stout 92mm coolers like the D9L and U9S because of the insane temperature and fan speed ramping at idle. Over these past 9 months, I've thrown every trick in the book at it: 3.6 or 4.0GHz fixed frequency, PPT undervolting, adding hysteresis to fans, custom fan curves, undervolting with LLC mitigation, and the EDC trick. Only lower fixed frequency quietens the fans at idle, but the single-core and multi-core performance penalties are hard to swallow on a $459 SKU.

65W TDP my ass. Yeah, an Intel 65W part might peak at 150W power draw, but at least it idles like a 65W part. Every time Chrome opens or Windows Defender wants to do a scan, the 3700X immediately starts reaching for the stars like a Whipple'd Coyote.

For fuck's sake, I can sometimes hear the A9s screaming through my headphones while on the Windows desktop.

The only solution to this problem is to go bigger to 120mm/140mm coolers whose larger and quieter fans don't suffer from these problems, or to water. Problem is, none of the 120mm/140mm towers fit (obviously) in the M1, and the only one that fits (my topflow C14S) still won't because of Gigabyte's stupid socket placement on every single one of its existing ITX boards, which prevents the top panel from closing in the M1. Water obviously isn't a solution, because all it takes is one technology-illiterate Border Force agent in a bad mood, and that's the end of my entire computer.

The icing on the cake is that none of the B450 boards that have an acceptable socket placement for the C14S are available at all, and B550 boards aren't yet released and are poised to be priced like the $350+ X570 SKUs that are already around.

------

On a more positive note, old parts aren't actually dead. There's not been any video output in BIOS for some time now (otherwise works fine in Windows), but was unable to reach the CMOS jumper without removing the entire motherboard tray from the TJ08. Reset CMOS, and everything is back to normal.

If this one has to give up the C14S in case I am able to get a B550 board for Ol' Beastie, I've been thinking of getting a U12A instead. Unfortunately, the entire hardware market is all but dead right now with products either entirely MIA or priced out of their minds.

I did pick up a set of dark blue cables for the Focus Plus Platinum from Cablemod (who previously did the custom color sleeving in my M1), so once it's all back in the TJ08 with the new sleeved cables, it'll be time to give the backup rig the photo op it deserves.

 

[Mussels]

Yeah the way ryzens read high at idle messes with a lot of fan curves, i just adjusted mine to be flat X% until 60C

fortunately for my ITX build, i can use an upright dark rock slim, which means i can reach everything easily

 

[tabascosauz]

Yeah the way ryzens read high at idle messes with a lot of fan curves, i just adjusted mine to be flat X% until 60C

fortunately for my ITX build, i can use an upright dark rock slim, which means i can reach everything easily

The most infuriating part of all this is that it could be easy solvable if AMD wasn't a goddamn miser, and opened up access to the other CPU die temp sensors to motherboard fan control.

No motherboard is currently able to leverage the Tdie sensor, which is pretty much what Ryzen Master reads and has none of the stupid spikes at idle. Instead, they all are still forced to use the traditional Tctl/Tdie sensor which has the nonsensical rollercoaster idle. Tdie has been visible in software for months now, so exactly how much work would be needed to open it up to BIOS and for the vendors to add it to the list of sensor options?

Instead, because AMD regards such things as proprietary and only accessible through its own software, we're stuck here with fan control slaved to this idiotic sensor that harkens from the AM3 days. It's the same deal as with FX and Zen: sensor is wildly off at idle, but at load it's right in line. Except this time, we even have other sensors that function correctly, we're just not allowed to use them.

I couldn't contain my resentment for all this, so I ended up ordering a Dark Rock 4 Pro that'll be here next week.

Be it the unpopular opinion on this forum, regardless of how great the hardware product is, I maintain that Intel's firmware support since Sandy Bridge makes AMD's AGESA look like it's Fisher Price trying to write computer software.

 

[Mussels]

The most infuriating part of all this is that it could be easy solvable if AMD wasn't a goddamn miser, and opened up access to the other CPU die temp sensors to motherboard fan control.

No motherboard is currently able to leverage the Tdie sensor, which is pretty much what Ryzen Master reads and has none of the stupid spikes at idle. Instead, they all are still forced to use the traditional Tctl/Tdie sensor which has the nonsensical rollercoaster idle. Tdie has been visible in software for months now, so exactly how much work would be needed to open it up to BIOS and for the vendors to add it to the list of sensor options?

Instead, because AMD regards such things as proprietary and only accessible through its own software, we're stuck here with fan control slaved to this idiotic sensor that harkens from the AM3 days. It's the same deal as with FX and Zen: sensor is wildly off at idle, but at load it's right in line. Except this time, we even have other sensors that function correctly, we're just not allowed to use them.

I couldn't contain my resentment for all this, so I ended up ordering a Dark Rock 4 Pro that'll be here next week.

Be it the unpopular opinion on this forum, regardless of how great the hardware product is, I maintain that Intel's firmware support since Sandy Bridge makes AMD's AGESA look like it's Fisher Price trying to write computer software.

I wont argue against your views here - in fact my only real problem with AMD platform right now is in fact, the silly temp readings.

Current | Min | Max | Average

Some of these numbers look totally legit, others look "oh god why" hot - silent settings on an ITX build make the TDie numbers totally reasonable
(DX11 heavy gaming session, for reference)

 

[tabascosauz]

CC had Dark Rock Pro 4s in stock, so I went and picked one up today instead of gambling on which day I might get it within Amazon's May 29 to June 10 window.

First impressions are astonishing. Stock settings before yielded 4890-4930pts in R20. Now, I'm up to 4950-4990 bone stock. No PBO, regular voltages. Even broke my previous record of 4985 (when it was custom tweaked PBO with the EDC trick and everything full blast) with a score of 4991, again, bone stock. CPU-Z scores improved as well, especially the consistency of the ST score. All-core clocks as high as PBO previously, bone stock.

Just goes to show that while Ryzen runs hot, good cooling still pays off. And it was not the fault of insufficient paste coverage after all; 92mm towers just can't stay quiet and cool at the same time on these chips.

While I didn't necessarily "lose" performance with the U9S, the 3700X was short of its full potential. I suspect that the initial speculation over PB2 temperature limits is true after all; outside of the usual power and voltage limits, all core clocks begin scaling back immediately after either the 65C or 70C mark.

CPU-Z reaches only 65C, and CB reaches no more than 72C every run. Only a couple degrees' difference, but much quieter and temperatures are much more stable as well. That's the size and fin area difference in action.

The DRP4 is a fantastic cooler. It wasn't my first choice, as I am a lifelong Noctua user and wanted a D15 or U12A instead, but neither could be had for a reasonable price. The fans on the DRP4 are actually silent; even at 100% speed, it's legitimately hard to hear them. It goes without saying that there are no more idle fan spikes.

Although the TJ08B makes things difficult to reach at the top of the board (tray needs to come out again to reach the top screws, CPU fan header, or EPS), the case itself has a little adjustable support that helps prop up heavy coolers and reduce PCB bowing. Perfect for the DRP4.

However, it isn't Noctua. The cooler is gorgeous; it's the bundled accessories, packaging, and mounting hardware that make it obvious. The styrofoam that wraps around the cooler. The basic instructions. The mounting hardware has been much improved over previous generations, but still nowhere near Secufirm's ease of installation. That's all still manageable though, except for this:

Fuck these fan clips. Noctua's 92mm clips on the left for comparison. Just how much effort would it take to put an angled tab in the middle of each one so that one doesn't need the help of tweezers to attach and remove them?

Proper photo op later. So far very glad I made the decision to put my main rig into the TJ08.

 

[tabascosauz]

I sent my 2060 Super for RMA, because it was buzzing like crazy 24/7 as long as the computer was on. You could hear it from the next room over. It turns out that these FE cards all have coil whine, but at least this replacement 2060S is relatively quiet at idle. Previously, the coil whine could be heard through DT770s

The faster cards with the short FE cooler (2060S, 2070) run hotter and the inverted layout of the TJ08 doesn't help either, but a mild Afterburner undervolt brings max load temperatures down to 70C from 74-76C. The RL08's revised inverted layout with direct 120mm x 2 airflow for the GPU probably fares much better, but the TJ08 is a much more handsome case than the RL08, so that's something I'll have to think about.

It's about time I got around to testing lower Vcore limits on the 4790K as well. 6 years, and I've not really explored whether the stock 84C Prime95 temps under a C14S are because the chip is a bad bin, or because Gigabyte is overvolting the chip at stock.

There's not been much exciting on the hardware front lately, save for the B550 release. I'm thinking of picking up a mATX board. The B450 I Aorus Pro Wifi that I have had since last August leaves much to be desired; it lacks a USB-C on the back, appears incapable of handling anything more than a 65W 8-core due to there being only 4 true phases, a crappy heatsink and an artificially imposed power limit, has a poor socket placement that pushes larger coolers right into the top (or in my case, bottom) of the case.

The B550M Mortar and B550M Steel Legend currently have my attention. The Mortar appears to have the slightly stronger VRM (though both are very respectable) and better heatsinks, as well as a front USB-C header and BIOS flashback; the Steel Legend has better rear I/O, provisions for self-installing Wifi, and much better Clear CMOS button on the rear I/O. Getting either of these boards is guaranteed to make my life a lot easier in accessing connectors in the TJ08, and will also allow me to add back the 120mm exhaust that it's missing right now.

Not sure exactly what I will do.

 

[biffzinker]

Techspot put up an article today for B550 motherboard's VRM temperatures. Might be worth a look?

AMD B550 Motherboard First Look & VRM Temperature Test

At long last AMD more budget-oriented B550 motherboards will finally go on sale. There's been plenty of talk about the B550 chipset and all the supporting boards...

www.techspot.com

 

[Caring1]

The faster cards with the short FE cooler (2060S, 2070) run hotter and the inverted layout of the TJ08 doesn't help either

Nah, those FEs are just a shit design.
The only outlets for the air is towards the motherboard, or against the side of the case.
The really need a vented side on the case.

 

[tabascosauz]

Nah, those FEs are just a shit design.
The only outlets for the air is towards the motherboard, or against the side of the case.
The really need a vented side on the case.

Actually, despite what I thought, leaving the side panel off whether normal layout or inverted has a barely 1-2C effect on the FE. The problem here is lack of direct GPU airflow. In the TJ08, it's fighting both natural convection and the PSU fan. In the M1, with just one A12x25 feeding air directly to it, the 2060S at stock voltage is about 6 degrees cooler, which is the same temp it gets now in the TJ08 with a healthy undervolt.

Also gotta remember that the short FE card is only 9" in length. The smallest 2060S, the Zotac Mini with 3 heatpipes, runs slightly hotter being half an inch shorter but also about that much taller than the FE. There's no doubt that a more "open" and function-over-form design might help it a bit, but my "standard length" dual fan EVGA 1070 is a whopping 10.6". Of course it would cool better. It's also nowhere near as structurally rigid as my 2060S.

On a side note, the larger FE on the 2070S and 2080 are also 10.6" and cool roughly as well as my 1070 while taming a much faster, larger and hotter chip.

 

[Waldorf]

@tabascosauz
u got so much inside on pc hw, yet you leave cords coiled/bundled up (magnetic fields anyone)?

@Caring1
most MSI gaming are getting the lowest temps for aircooled cards, yet they exhaust their air to board/case (sidepanel) as well,
outside a blower style card having another 1x2in opening is not gonna make a difference worth noting.
and i usually take some tape or silencing foam to cover the rear panel area, so i dont get unfiltered air inside, and never seen temps higher than expected.

here a FLIR image showing there is virtually no (hot) air being pushed towards rear of the case/panel,
so those couple of cuts could as well be sealed.

 

[tabascosauz]

In the end, the Silverstone TJ08-E adventure didn't work out nearly as well as I had hoped. Even with a -0.10V undervolt, the GPU was really cooking in there. Maybe a RL08 would have been much better with its dedicated GPU airflow, but it doesn't look like today’s Silverstone appreciates the timeless design of the TJ08 nearly as much as the modern plasticky copycats that are the RL08 and KL07.

QC was also somewhat suspect on my TJ08. Parts of certain panels were noticeably bent, not horrendously so, but enough to make certain case screws quite uncooperative and severely reduce the useful lifespan of screw threads. The worst offender was the fact that the rear SECC panel was deformed near the I/O area, making I/O shield fitment a perpetually cursed affair. Overall, not a particularly good time, and a letdown compared to the Silverstone of legends past.

Enter the Cerberus, a nice [but kinda overpriced] 18L mATX case:

(photo actually taken after the build was done, that’s how clean a white Cerberus looks!)

It matches the upcoming mini-ITX NR200 in volume, yet the Cerberus fits micro-ATX boards. Since the best air coolers compatible with the Cerberus are the chunky C14S and Dark Rock TF, socket placement is pretty important with respect to the 24-pin and top of the board. Found that out the hard way with my B450-I Aorus in the M1.

The matte white 2mm powdercoated panels are the star of the Cerberus’ show (or any Sliger case for that matter). They are seriously solid. The NCASE M1, DAN-A4 and other spawn of the Lian-Li factory sport smooth, brushed 1.5mm panels that are aesthetic as hell, but the Cerberus panels are on another level in terms of finish and robustness.

By comparison, the steel frame isn’t much to write home about, but it is painted to the same standards as the white panels. This is another area where the Cerberus has a major leg up on my M1 – side by side, both filled up with heavy hardware, the M1’s frame flexes a considerable amount. That’s not to say the M1’s frame is any thinner, but perhaps a better optimised design and a full motherboard tray go a long way in ensuring structural rigidity. On that subject, however, the Cerberus could use some reinforcement in the back. It’s an obvious consequence of its versatility, as part the back panel must be interchangeable to accommodate the internal SFX / rear SFX / rear ATX configurations, but hey, could be better.

It will not fit an ATX power supply in front, however, which is probably for the best. Didn’t want to buy yet another cable kit, so the SGX-650 fit the bill as most Focus and Prime Seasonics share cable compatibility with one another. I do have a soft spot for the 550W Plat, so it’ll probably be tasked with running some old IVB/Haswell hardware on the testbench.

 

[tabascosauz]

Onwards...

Every part fits into the Cerberus like a glove. The tray cutout is massive. There are zip tie / cable tiedowns everywhere. The “infinite vent” system makes it easy to place fans exactly where you want ‘em, and doubles as a massive field of tiedown locations wherever there aren’t any fans.

And since I ran it with the Plat 550W connected externally on the desk as I waited for the SFX-L 650W, that part of the build was a complete breeze and done in a jiffy. The only cable management I had to do was coax the 8-pin EPS to run in a smooth fashion across the top of the board, with the help of some cable ties.

Well, that was the easy part.

I didn’t opt for a SF750 Platinum because: 1) I had no idea that Corsair had pulled a massive upgrade on us original SF Gold users by bundling SFF-length sleeved cables with the new SF Plat, and; 2) it is my general experience over the years that “SFF-length” cabling on SFX units generally doesn’t reach, well, just about anything when outside of a <15L ITX build. In particular, the 4+4 pin EPS is the main concern. In my M1, my custom order SFF-length Cablemod cables barely reach the top left corner of any ITX board and don’t have any slack left for creative cable management. And so, my reasoning was that keeping the long EPS off the blue SE-series kit would give me much more wiggle room to run it the way I saw fit.

What I also failed to remember is that unlike the EPS, the 24-pin is no farther away than it is in a mini-ITX case. The result: a stubborn blue anaconda of titanic proportions that had to be contorted to fit in the small space hemmed in by the GPU, the tiny space between the front panel and the frontmost NF-A14, and the front panel. So yeah, as the picture shows, that 24-pin really gets around.

But with all things said and done, it really isn’t that bad. It is still Small Form Factor, but everything is laid out in a way that parts aren’t any more difficult to access than if they were still housed in the TJ08-E, for instance. Pop in a 3-fan 2080 Ti Strix and it might be a different story, but this was one of the more laid-back build experiences I’ve had. I just wish I could say the same thing for the TJ08-E and its socket placement woes, or the M1v5’s eternal vendetta against the 24-pin.

I suppose the ideal plan would be to use a full-length CPU cable and SATA power chain with a SFF-length PCIe and 24-pin. Oh well.

 

[robot zombie]

That case makes me want to do an ITX build so bad. So clean. Very nice build.

 

[Mussels]

that looks nuts for a case with matx support

 

[MIRTAZAPINE]

WHAT THE HECK! when did you buy this Cerberus! Shipping to SG here cost a bomb for that case so I passed on it! Damn that is one clean build! Don't tempt me any more I can build a house with my itx cases now. The ceberus reminded me of my short stint with my Jonsbo RM2 case which is pretty much the same volume but alot less customisable without mods.

I thought I would be at the end of the road going the "ultimate" sff build with my Ryzen 3900x laptop but dang those are clean!

I love itx builds but it requires a sort of minimalist mindset where you cut out unneeded fluff or things. The biggest downside with itx I find is storage having to deal with external hdd. SSD cannot match it for bulk storage. Also itx requires so much planning and maintenance is just harder. In a way a well thought off atx case may save space overall by offering all options if required.

 

[tabascosauz]

That case makes me want to do an ITX build so bad. So clean. Very nice build.

Sliger's SM550/560/570/580 are calling hell, you could get a Cerberus X and fit everything you have in there. You'd just have to give up the Dark Rock 4. I'm not even sure what exactly you would lose from moving to a C14S; it's generally about 2.5C hotter now than it was on the massive Dark Rock Pro 4 but worlds quieter, even with the 2000rpm iPPC A14.

that looks nuts for a case with matx support

That's what I thought at first as well. The Cerberus is really just a larger, better M1, but the motherboard really makes a huge difference. With any ITX board, regardless of how high-end:

• Socket placement too high - can't use the C14S, if you rotate it then heatpipes hit GPU. Socket too low - no space to reach the release lever on the PCIe slot with your hand.
• VRM heatsink too tall like on the Impact or ASRock boards makes a number of coolers incompatible.
• Almost every ITX board has the 8-pin EPS on the left side of the top left mounting hole and jammed up against the heatsink and/or rear I/O shield, making it impossible to remove a tight connector without taking the board out and disconnecting absolutely everything else.
• Most decent mATX boards have fan header(s) along the bottom. ITX boards can't, so the fans on the bottom of the case need an extension to reach the headers at the top. Or you could have the sole case fan header stuck in the bottom right between the PCIe slot and the RAM slots, where the GPU, fan cable, USB 3.0/Type C cable and front I/O end up playing this awkward game of Twister.

I love itx builds but it requires a sort of minimalist mindset where you cut out unneeded fluff or things. The biggest downside with itx I find is storage having to deal with external hdd. SSD cannot match it for bulk storage. Also itx requires so much planning and maintenance is just harder. In a way a well thought off atx case may save space overall by offering all options if required.

Reddit always makes it look easy and accessible, but in the end the same holds true in 2020 as in 2012 sans the advent of M.2 magnifying the effect even further: without condensing your storage down into one or two large SSDs, it's going to be a painful time.

I guess everyone in the SFF crowd sooner or later accepts this reality and learns to only install the programs that they strictly need. It's always funny to see a lot of these cases advertise their "versatile support for 3.5" HDDs". Like, have you even seen any of the builds in your case geared towards mechanical storage? The way the cable management looks in there belies the extreme suffering that the builder had to endure to get the whole thing to come together.

 

[robot zombie]

Sliger's SM550/560/570/580 are calling hell, you could get a Cerberus X and fit everything you have in there. You'd just have to give up the Dark Rock 4. I'm not even sure what exactly you would lose from moving to a C14S; it's generally about 2.5C hotter now than it was on the massive Dark Rock Pro 4 but worlds quieter, even with the 2000rpm iPPC A14.

Oh just stop. Now I'm looking at the builds on their product page and it's making my brain go "where's my notepad?" Nothing good ever happens when I start drawing in that notepad. That Cerberus X looks really interesting. Tons of possibilities in such a tiny case. They can even fit a couple of small rads and combo res.

You've legit just opened me up to a few potential paths for my next upgrade round. Stuff to keep in mind when I gear up for a new GPU/ram addition. For a while I've been set on converting the whole thing to liquid along with some aesthetic upgrades when I did that... little overhaul around a solid 3900x base (be silly not to keep that for a long time,) but now I don't know. That case looks like a more rewarding challenge. It's all your fault. Calling me into the fire.

 

[Waldorf]

@tabascosauz

did you look at the Tt ITX/Matx cubes?

F1 mini

V1

 

[Mussels]

@tabascosauz

did you look at the Tt ITX/Matx cubes?

F1 mini

V1

thermaltake
*vomits*

 

[tabascosauz]

@tabascosauz

did you look at the Tt ITX/Matx cubes?

F1 mini

V1

I've known of the Core line since it came out, when there was that whole commotion about the Core X1 being a low quality Mercury S3 ripoff. The layout (and presumably the airflow) in the V1 and F1 are fine, as is the case with the very similar 250D, but the 140mm cooler height is too restrictive for me to use as my main rig. Also too big (22L for the V1, 18L for my Cerberus, 12.5L for my M1) and too blocky to fit in my Pelican as my portable rig.

Plus, after the Cerberus' build quality, it's going to be very hard to look at ordinary 0.5mm SECC steel cases in the same way

 

[biffzinker]

thermaltake
*vomits*

The Thermaltake Big Typoon was a decent heatsink. Don’t know about their recent stuff, since I haven’t bought anything with the Thermaltake name recently.