APC Battery backup Dead. Need new battery or just dead?

[Waldorf]

@davidm71
yes, any battery with identical plus/port layout and shape/size (so it fits inside the UPS) will work.
if you know someone that works at company/gov place where they have UPS, see if they can order you one.
i had APC ones costing the same as if i ordered no-name replacements online.

check if the unit has a "wiring issue" led at its back.
all APC/CP units i had purchased for myself/others had it.

@Bill_Bright
all lead batteries work the same way, no difference if its a big one in a car/truck, or smaller one in a UPS.
sure, ups have less battery use, thus they last a bit longer, but life is usually connected to how much they were discharged/cycled,
rather than age of the cells.

sure does the car run its stuff of the battery, but how much draw do you have?
how long is it before you eventually will use it again, which in turn charges the battery?
if installed in a boat, how long do you have between each use (and charge)? this is the main reason for "marine/deep cycle" batteries to exist.
"regular" lead batteries take a "hit" every time they get discharged below 10 V, which can easily happen in a boat/rv etc.

no (starter) battery gets replaced under warranty, if it was completely discharged (below 10 V),
heck even optima does not warranty their reds for that, only the marine/deep cycle ones are covered (why the cost more).

any "regular/starter" type battery never lasted more than a year when i used to power my car audio without running the engine
(not cranked up for output, but longer use when hanging out outdoors), no matter brand or capacity.
all deep cycle optima batteries i replaced them with, lasted 5-7y when i used the same way.

i usually dont like to use wiki, but to give someone using UPS (and its batteries) for +35y that doesnt know about "starter" (vs cycling batteries) :

starter battery
batteries designed for starting automotive engines are not designed for deep discharge. They are designed for maximum surface/current output, which can easily be damaged by deep discharge. Repeated deep discharges will result in capacity loss and premature failure.

deep cycle battery
deep-cycle cells are much less susceptible to degradation due to cycling, and are required for applications where the batteries are regularly discharged...

(consumer grade UPS dont seem to use deep cycle batteries, as they cost about 2-3 times more than the starter type; 30$ vs 70-100$,
and thats when i didnt replace my 5y old battery with a deeep cycle one. even if it dies sooner, i could still buy 2-3 replacements before it would cost me more than one deep cycle)

those are the reasons why i recommend not to use battery power for more than covering a brownout,
and shutting down computer as soon as possible (then power down UPS), until power gets restored.
hence the recommendation always keep the battery charged (even if not in use, plug in every month).



and you might wanna read up on AVR in UPS.
i checked 3 UPS brands, all stating the same stuff, quoting APC here:
"... correcting low/high voltage conditions, without using the battery ..."


and just an example for lipo power
portable gen

 

[davidm71]

I also own a couple other UPS units. I have a 1500 AVR APC unit that works pretty nicely and an old Cyberpower 1500 huge monster of an UPS sitting under my desk collecting dust turned off. That one takes 4 batteries. May order another four batteries and bring that one back to life. By the way the Backups XS 900 unit is now completely silent. Weird.


BTW if any of you guys have storage recommendations please look at my other thread:

Looking for good on all the time backup drive?

Hi, Looking to build a backup drive enclosure combination for the Server at work and considering the WD NAS or the Seagate Ironwolf NAS drives. Read that these drives are meant for raid and don't have the cache to prevent write errors though which is a concern but want the drive to be durable...

www.techpowerup.com

Thanks

 

[Bill_Bright]

May order another four batteries and bring that one back to life. By the way the Backups XS 900 unit is now completely silent. Weird.

Just make sure you verify the battery types and voltages. I have a 25 year old APC Smart-UPS 900 on my garage door opener and it takes 4 cells, but they are 6V, not 12V. And BTW, it is out in the garage because it now hums too. I got tired of it when it was supporting a computer in my home office.

yes, any battery with identical plus/port layout and shape/size (so it fits inside the UPS) will work.

Ummm, no, sorry but that is not true. Most importantly, it must have the same voltage output and have equal or greater current capability. Many UPS use 6V cells. If you replace them with 12V cells, it could result in serious consequences. If the originals are 12V, replacing with 6V could also result in serious consequences as the charging circuits apply much greater voltages to them - though likely in both of those scenarios, the UPS would simply refuse to power up.

And of course, if you replace the cells with a lower current (Ah) capability, and the load is near what the UPS was originally rated for, it surely will cut power to the connected equipment in the event of a power outage, causing the computer to crash hard.

So no, just worrying about the polarity, shape, and size is definitely NOT good enough, will not work, and could be dangerous!

all lead batteries work the same way, no difference if its a big one in a car/truck, or smaller one in a UPS.

That was never in contention. And yes, life span depends on use how often, and for how long. Again, that was not disputed. For the record, I have used 12V car batteries strapped for 24VDC output to temporarily replace UPS batteries. Worked fine because (1) the voltages matched and (2) the current capability was definitely equal or greater than the original UPS batteries.

sure, ups have less battery use, thus they last a bit longer,

No. Not typically true. Read the specs for any UPS. For example, for the APC Smart-UPS 1500VA, it clearly shows the expected battery life is 3 - 5 years, warrantied for just 2 years.

Many car batteries are designed to last 72 and even 84 months.

no (starter) battery gets replaced under warranty, if it was completely discharged (below 10 V),

Of course they do! One of the main reasons batteries are replaced under warranty is because they fail to fully charge!!!!

and you might wanna read up on AVR in UPS.
i checked 3 UPS brands, all stating the same stuff, quoting APC here:
"... correcting low/high voltage conditions, without using the battery ..."

It would have been nice if you provided a link. You might want to keep reading as you apparently stopped when you saw what you wanted to see - or simply paraphrased incorrectly.

As seen here, the full verbiages is a bit different than your claim. My bold underline added.

This is achieved by re-routing the input voltage through the internal Automatic Voltage Regulating transformer, all without running off of the internal battery.

What happens is the AVR will indeed, boost without "using" the battery, if possible. But if the input voltage drops (sags) below a specific threshold, the UPS will use the battery to boost the voltage without running off (i.e. switching over to) the internal battery. And if the input voltage drops even further (or exceeds a specific high voltage threshold), the UPS will kick over to full battery and run completely off the battery.

But of course, not all UPS are created equal. And various AVR features have different levels of sophistication too. Much depends on what you are willing to spend.

The OP has never indicated his grid power is so unstable that LiPo or generators are needed. Most users just need backup power to provide enough run time to finish the paragraph they are writing, then "gracefully" shut down the computer. If one needs a generator, I would suggest investing in a whole house generator - one that will support your refrigerator and freezer, HVAC and more. Then the purpose of the UPS is to hold power to your computers until the backup generator kicks in and stabilizes. Many of those type generators work off natural gas and automatically start and cut over too. Very nice.

Again, I've been working with UPSs for 35 years, first as an electronics technician in mission critical air traffic control facilities, and then later in my career with computers and computer networks for the DoD and State Department. See the link in my sig and decide if I might know a little about them.

 

[Waldorf]

yes, should have incl voltage/amps/Ah, so used to mayching those i just forgot.

my stepfather had a gm dealership/repair shop/gas station in germany, i worked at couple of auto parts stores in germany and over here, all would replace a battery that would not keep its charge only once, even if under warranty, as they would state its the car draining it, not a battery fault.

i was never saying it made sense for normal user to use lipos, but ive been playing with RC stuff and me/friends having lots of lipos that work (but not good enough anymore for use in race drone/car), it came to mind as an option to have something to tinker with.

i had several apc/cp ups, incl when i did IT for the main store at andrews, not one used battery power for avr (which always triggers the fan/s) except if voltage was below/above set limits for input V (i usually chose the narrowest range the settings would offer).
sure, not all are the same, not all work the same, and i haven't used ALL the different options out there but for the consumer stuff from brands like cp and apc or triplite will not use battery for avr unless it hits set limits for input voltage.
and that is for units in the past 10y, as i know tech changes over that kind of time frame, so what applies yesterday, might not be true tomorrow.
see ryzen 3xxx cpus vs a 5y old intel..

 

[Bill_Bright]

as they would state its the car draining it, not a battery fault.

LOL And no doubt for some of those customers, they were getting ripped off.

Batteries - especially those installed where vibrations and bumpy roads are encountered, can easily develop internal shorts. Plates can come loose and touch an adjacent plate. Or impurities during manufacturing can cause an internal short. An internal short will cause the battery to drain just sitting there. The short may initially be very tiny or not at all, then develop over time, but long before the warranty runs out. The battery will often fully charge (though typically will constantly show a high rate of charge), then run down again. Sadly, many cars with just "idiot lights" instead of gauges will not show that excessive charge rate.

Unless there is clear evidence the battery was dropped onto the ground by the customer, those warranties should have been honored. If not, those dealers (or parts managers) are crooks! Plain and simple.

unless it hits set limits for input voltage.

Exactly. Thanks for now agreeing with me.

Now I think it time we return this thread back to the OP.

 

[davidm71]

So this afternoon was greeted by a high pitched whistling like sound coming from the UPS. The OVERLOAD light was on in Red. Pressed its power button and reset it and its working now and silent. Just don't trust it anymore.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Did you ever check your wall outlets for proper wiring?

You might try swapping the two UPS to see how this suspect UPS behaves with this load.

Having said that, my trust factor would be challenged at this point too.

 

[davidm71]

Did you ever check your wall outlets for proper wiring?

You might try swapping the two UPS to see how this suspect UPS behaves with this load.

Having said that, my trust factor would be challenged at this point too.

I havent checked yet. This is at my girlfriends house and I have to remember to grab the wall checking tool next time I go home. Now I just shut it off when I'm not around. Can't trust it.

 

[Bill_Bright]

You can use that checker on the output side of the UPS too.

 

[Shanti]

I have never posted on a form so I hope I’m doing this right. I NEED HELP. I have 2 APC Battery Back up ES550. Both batteries shoe with volt Metter 12+ volts. But NONE of the back outlets work. I tray to reset & red light comes on & load beep. I just ordered a replacement battery before I checked voltage. Should I cancel order & buy hole new units???

 

[Bill_Bright]

It would be odd for both UPS to fail in the same manner at the same time.

Also, you really cannot test any battery (or power supply) with a simple voltmeter. A "bad" 12V battery, for example, can easily measure 12V with a meter. But as soon as you put a load on that battery, the voltage may drop dramatically to unusable levels. So to properly test a battery, it must have a realistic load put on it while measuring.

The ES550 has a Master Controlled Outlet. If this outlet is enabled, and if the device plugged into this outlet is turned off (or nothing is plugged in there), all the outputs will be disabled. Check your manual here.

If those UPS are the same age, and the Master Controlled Outlet is being used correctly, it is normal for those SLA batteries to fail and need to be replaced every 3 - 5 years - depending on how they have been used.

 

[Shanti]

Ok thanks. That helps a lot. I know they are older than 3 years. I ordered one replacement battery. Thanks again Bill

 

[Bill_Bright]

You are welcome. Good luck.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yeah most these unit use Chinese batteries and slap a brand name sticker on it
If you peal it off you'll likely see the real part number you can search amazon for and find it for half price.
Did it for a couple of APC units saved a ton of money

I'll add most these batteries only live 3 years if you're lucky.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Yeah, I never buy replacement batteries from the UPS maker. I note in this case, the OP already purchased a replacement.

And for the records, Amazon does not always have the best price. And prices seem to change day by day. And sales come and go just as quickly.

I buy my UPS batteries from Apex, BatteryWholesale, Battery Mart, Batteryplex or RefurbUPS, Walmart or Amazon depending on who has the best price on that day. And note today one distributor will price high with free shipping and the next day price low with shipping. So be sure to factor in shipping, which can be significant, but sometimes free.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
There is quite a markup all just cheap batteries though.

 

[Bill_Bright]

They are cheap because sealed lead-acid batteries use very old, easy to produce technologies - the exact same as car batteries. And also, the lead inside is recyclable over and over again. So yeah, they can be made cheaply. And sold cheaply as long as they keep the UPS brand names off them.

The only advantage to using genuine APC, Cyberpower, etc. branded batteries is when they use multiple cells to make one large battery. When buy from the UPS maker, they often are already strapped and may include the necessary spacers. But I just save them from the original batteries.

 

[Shanti]

Bill you are spot on. I got my replacement battery from Amazon (price $37.00) & plugged it in now my BACK UP UPS working great. I just bought another exact same battery from your link at APEX for $26.49 shipping included. Saved over $10.00. Aloha & Malama Pona

 

[Bill_Bright]

Great! And thanks for your followup post!

Now I wonder how the OP is doing?