Constant "EDP Other" under RING in ThrottleStop

[unclewebb]

Your CPU is using the 34 multiplier when all 4 cores are active. Everything looks OK. If you are not having any throttling problems, it is not necessary to use the Disable and Lock feature. Your Cinebench R20 score looks normal for a 7700HQ.

The Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice voltages need to be set equally.

 

[Klnv]

Hi, could you please take a look at these? i'm hoping to find a sweet spot between performance and battery life, its a work device, not going to be gaming on this at all. It's a dell latitude 7285 i5-7Y57 2 in 1 laptop.

 

[neimos]

When that box is not checked, I have no idea what value the CPU will use for turbo boost short. It might use a default value or it might continue to use the last value that it was set to.

I always recommend checking this box so the CPU knows what value you want to use without any ambiguity.

Hi unclewebb,

I have the exact setup as DarkByteZero intel i9-9880H. I have been working on this for a week now and I have tried almost everything. I would appreciate if you can give me couple of ideas. First of all, I have tried throttlestop a lot worked like a charm. I see exact limits EDP ring and core on an off and during game it is usually red. But I could not get a consistent CPU clock speeds even with speedshift. My TDP settings are 25 Watts for short and long and I enabled speedshift in OpenCpu and i am getting a desired clock speed of 3GHz all throughout. When I play a game (Apex Legends), the CPU and GPU runs at 3GHz and 1.3GHz and then GPU clock starts to go down to 300 MHz and after a while BDrochot is triggered and I ran down to 800 MHz and game becomes unplayable.

I attachted the waveforms using afterburner. While BDROCHOT is being triggered, the computer temperatures are around 70C so I have no clue why it is being triggered at all.

Ps: Also I have tried to turn off Hyperthreading - using Process Lasso - did not work.
Also used MorePowerTool to increase the GPU min freq to 600MHz, lower its max to 900MHz and power limit to 35Watt-40Watt - None helped me.

I am scared to turn off BDrochot as it can damage the computer? (or at least I am thinking so, so never touched it yet) Do you have any suggestions ?

Thanks

I will try that config now

EDIT:
I will go to sleep now, at least I got a stable run of 3DMark Time Spy Bench without BD PROCHOT.
Later I will call Apple and ask them about this issue because I actually think that all these problems occur because of Bootcamp. On Mac OS the thing runs 90-98c without even thinking about a throttle ...

Good Night

Have you spoken with Apple Care? I doubt they have much knowledge about this but if they return/exchange can you let us know ?

Ps: Others have used what I have done and almost no one is reporting the same things in terms of BD PROCHOT killing our clock speeds.

 

[Max(IT)]

I don't think Apple is going to give you any support about a Windows behavior
BTW there is no way an i9-9880H could give you max performance in a 35W environment. No way at all. The CPU is designed for a TDP of 45W, and that means at base frequency. Under load it could easily pass 60W.
If Apple, with its obsession for "thin & light", had opted for a TDP-down configuration of 35W, an option on the 9880H, your notebook will be crippled down by that choice. No point in buying an high end configuration with the i9-9880H, paying $2799 + VAT for that, when in 35W you can't even really fit the "base" i7-9750H.

 

[neimos]

I don't think Apple is going to give you any support about a Windows behavior
BTW there is no way an i9-9880H could give you max performance in a 35W environment. No way at all. The CPU is designed for a TDP of 45W, and that means at base frequency. Under load it could easily pass 60W.
If Apple, with its obsession for "thin & light", had opted for a TDP-down configuration of 35W, an option on the 9880H, your notebook will be crippled down by that choice. No point in buying an high end configuration with the i9-9880H, paying $2799 + VAT for that, when in 35W you can't even really fit the "base" i7-9750H.

I don't see what your point is. We are talking about limiting power usage to avoid thermal limitations. My point is game is using 40-50% of the CPU. hence base frequency TDP power limitations, can dissipate power in the range of 20W and increase the clock speed around 3GHz and you are dissipating 25W - I do obtain a good 3 GHz constant clock speed.

We are talking about long time sustainable clock speeds - this is an issue with any laptop some will experience mroe than others, but I am pointing out what the bottleneck is - GPU not the CPU. I am trying to figure out, how I can solve this issue.

 

[Max(IT)]

I don't see what your point is. We are talking about limiting power usage to avoid thermal limitations. My point is game is using 40-50% of the CPU. hence base frequency TDP power limitations, can dissipate power in the range of 20W and increase the clock speed around 3GHz and you are dissipating 25W - I do obtain a good 3 GHz constant clock speed.

We are talking about long time sustainable clock speeds - this is an issue with any laptop some will experience mroe than others, but I am pointing out what the bottleneck is - GPU not the CPU. I am trying to figure out, how I can solve this issue.

My point is you spent a lot of money for a CPU not being exploited at all due to idiotic design choices. Do you really think a "good 3 GHz constant clock speed" on a i9-9880H is a good result ?
If you are happy, good for you, but it is not.
A good CPU like that should stay around 4 GHz while used (the maximum all cores speed is 4.1 GHz). 3 GHz is ridiculously low.
My i7-9750H, which is an inferior CPU, is running around 3.7/4 GHz all cores while gaming, and the sustainable TDP is 90W, not the ridiculous 35W figure Apple imposed on its computer.
Yes, battery life on MacBooks usually is very good because of that, I agree, but then I can see no point in invest a lot of money on a i9-9980H when BY DESIGN you laptop is not even good to exploit the base i7-9750H model.

PS: please don't get me wrong. I love Apple products, my daily driver for my on-the-go job is a Macbook Pro 13" 2019, and I can't really live without MacOS. I'm not an hater and I've been defined as a "fanboy" on other forums, but when high-performance computers are involved, Apple (sadly) cannot get their things together. Their obsession about form is a limit.

 

[algrenfrancis]

Hi all,

I just gotten my Lenovo Legion Y7000, i7-9750h with 1660ti, 1TB SSD.
I kept getting this limit prompts during startups only (as per attached pictures)

And seldom but randomly during idle or playing local videos, i will get thermal or BD Prochot (never both at the same time) on my CORE.

Is there something wrong with my CPU?

 

[Max(IT)]

Hi all,

I just gotten my Lenovo Legion Y7000, i7-9750h with 1660ti, 1TB SSD.
I kept getting this limit prompts during startups only (as per attached pictures)

And seldom but randomly during idle or playing local videos, i will get thermal or BD Prochot (never both at the same time) on my CORE.

Is there something wrong with my CPU?

you should show FIVR and TPL screenshots ... but it seems fine to me.

 

[algrenfrancis]

you should show FIVR and TPL screenshots ... but it seems fine to me.

Thanks for replying, attached are the screeshot. Ive UV both the CPU Core and Cache to -135.7mV, thats all i did for TS
As well as using the MSI Afterburner, my CPU at 32% usage hits 93C. It hits thermal throttling at random during idle or low usage.

Im worried that there is problem with the heatsink or some problem with the thermal efficiency of this set. T.T
It is normal for the temperature to go up during startup and hence the prompt in the limits page?

 

[Max(IT)]

Thanks for replying, attached are the screeshot. Ive UV both the CPU Core and Cache to -135.7mV, thats all i did for TS
As well as using the MSI Afterburner, my CPU at 32% usage hits 93C. It hits thermal throttling at random during idle or low usage.

Im worried that there is problem with the heatsink or some problem with the thermal efficiency of this set. T.T
It is normal for the temperature to go up during startup and hence the prompt in the limits page?

In the FIVR and TPL everything seems to be ok (and you have a good notebook with no artificially enforced TDP limits).
Spikes in temperatures during the boot are normal, even if 94° is a little bit high (on my system sometimes I have 85° during the startup, but I have also some flags).
The thing I noticed is your CPU is basically keeping 4/4.2 GHz all the times, even if Speed Shift EPP is correctly set at 84 (a good value for performance).
It is weird, like you have an app in background keeping the CPU from idling.
On my system during low loads (like now, browsing the web) the frequency constantly move from 900 Mhz to 4.1 GHz.

this is my typical behavior , for instance.

 

[algrenfrancis]

In the FIVR and TPL everything seems to be ok (and you have a good notebook with no artificially enforced TDP limits).
Spikes in temperatures during the boot are normal, even if 94° is a little bit high (on my system sometimes I have 85° during the startup, but I have also some flags).
The thing I noticed is your CPU is basically keeping 4/4.2 GHz all the times, even if Speed Shift EPP is correctly set at 84 (a good value for performance).
It is weird, like you have an app in background keeping the CPU from idling.
On my system during low loads (like now, browsing the web) the frequency constantly move from 900 Mhz to 4.1 GHz.

View attachment 158148

this is my typical behavior , for instance.

Weeew, cant seems to find whats making my CPU work at that speed all the time. T.T

 

[Max(IT)]

Weeew, cant seems to find whats making my CPU work at that speed all the time. T.T

If you take a look there is a huge difference between my idle temperature (41°) and your.
That's just because of the CPU working at full speed constantly.
If I set EPP to 0, my CPU would do the same and the temperature would be like your, so I dont think your heatsink has any issue.

 

[algrenfrancis]

I realise the max clock speed and increases in temperature is due to plug in or the power.
Cant seems to edit the settings for performance in the power plan for plug in.. T.T

 

[Vinay saini]

Hello unclewebb after reading the entire thread i tried to apply this on my laptop (acer nitro 5) and attaching the results (laptop is charging mode during all log files results)
the problem is that when my laptop is fully charged(100%) + EPP=90 in this case only there is no EDP/pl2 and laptops performance is constant while playing CSGO.
but if i decrease EPP for best performance and set it too EPP=0 there is PL2 in log files(attaching log file) and my FPS drops ingame(laptop fully charged)
and if my laptop is not fully charged then mostly there is EDP in my log files on both EPP=0 and EPP=90 and FPS DROPS badly in game
i tried increasing the TPL from 45,52 to 50,60 issue is the same please help

 

[unclewebb]

@Vinay saini - Some Acer laptops set their own power limits internally that ThrottleStop and Intel XTU do not have access to. When a manufacturer sets internal power limits, these power limits will take precedence over anything you set in ThrottleStop.

Based on your logs it looks like Acer is setting a low current limit when you are plugged in and charging. This will prevent your CPU and maybe your GPU too from reaching maximum performance. Doing things like this allows manufacturers to ship their laptops with barely adequate power supplies. Your power supply does not seem to be engineered to both fully power your CPU and GPU and charge your battery at the same time.

The next problem is the cooling solution that Acer is using is barely adequate. Intel recommends that OEMs use adequate cooling so the thermal throttling temperature can be set at the Intel specified value of 100°C. Acer cut corners and has set the thermal throttling temperature at 92°C. If this is causing thermal throttling, it will prevent your CPU from reaching maximum performance. In the EPP=0 Fully charged log file, CPU and GPU performance seems fairly consistent but the CPU is constantly bouncing off the 92°C thermal throttling limit that Acer has set. The log file shows a lot of PL2 throttling so my guess is that when your laptop reaches these sort of temperatures, Acer starts to lower the short term turbo power limit. Thermal throttling or power limit throttling does not really matter. Throttling is throttling and this will interfere with smooth game play.

In your EPP=90 and fully charged log file, the CPU is mostly running at just over 3000 MHz. This reduces power consumption and heat so the CPU does not have to resort to any throttling. This probably results in smoother game play but your CPU is only running at three quarters of its rated speed.

Your laptop is under designed. It is power, current and temperature limited, at values well below the Intel spec for a 9750H. There is nothing you are going to be able to do to get maximum performance out of it.

The 9750H can use different voltages for the core and cache. I would set the cache to -130 mV and then start reducing the core voltage and see how far you can go. Use Cinebench R20 for testing purposes. Some users see improvements with the core as low as -200 mV. Avoid any BIOS updates. Many laptops are losing CPU voltage control with some of the latest BIOS updates. Imagine how poorly your computer would run if voltage control was not an option.

You can also redo the thermal paste. It might help a little with your CPU temperatures but this alone is not going to magically transform an inadequate heatsink and fan.

 

[Vinay saini]

Okay sir thank you for your kind response. Will try different voltages for core and cache hope things get somewhat better

 

[Vinay saini]

Hello sir hope you are doing well
Is there any way i can increase throttling temperature from 92 to 100 ..?
Please tell.

 

[unclewebb]

Is there any way i can increase throttling temperature from 92 to 100 ..?

If you look in the Options window, it appears that your BIOS has locked the PROCHOT Offset feature. The black dot to the right of where it says Lock PROCHOT Offset indicates that the CPU is already locked. Once locked, there is no way for software to change this value so your CPU is stuck thermal throttling at 92°C

Default 100°C - 8°C PROCHOT Offset = 92°C

 

[Ellusive]

Hello
I am new here. A few months ago, got myself a gaming laptop, The Omen 17 - 2019 version , i7-9750h, rtx 2070, 16g ddr and so on ..
I tried undervolting and it went great for a while, kept a constant -150 mv for core and cache, and a constant 4.1Mhz clock under heavy load, temps would spike near 80 degrees mark, with fans at max speed, and that was fine since i use headphones all the time.
But after that , a couple of weeks ago, I did a Bios update, cause omen had it for me, and I heard these things are good for the temps
I know now I should`ve left it alone , since my laptop was running pretty well.
Not I have all sorts of errors in Ts bench and the laptop is just unstable, seems to stop by itself, restarts by itself , even if I pause a gamelike RDR2 and go take a shower, even now as I am typing , it just restared by itself.

Here are some screens of my setup

These are the errors I get when I try to run TSbench

 

[october3]

I signed on to say thanks for Throttlestop to unclewebb,so thanks! got the info on your program and instructions from bobofalltrades youtube channel

Ellusive maybe the new bios locked out undervolting?

I have a new 2020 Omen 15 with i7-10750H and it can't be under-volted, that not available in bios F01, but I was able to follow the instructions for throttlestop to reduce the CPU temp considerably

I have the PL1 at 30watts and PL2 38watts, and it runs stable and cool at 3.9GHz when the EPP value is set at zero.
Made a big difference as stock was hitting the 98deg C on couple of cores when stress testing and the fans were going to max when gaming.

Fantastic program, thanks again.

 

[unclewebb]

@Ellusive - Lesson #1. A manufacturer recommended BIOS update does not always improve the user experience. I know most enthusiasts have that itch to update everything but when it comes to updating the BIOS, I would avoid it if my computer was running OK.

The last screenshot that shows PL1 and EDP OTHER lighting up in red are telling you that your CPU is throttling because of the long term turbo power limit. Your ThrottleStop settings are all OK. The problem is that the 9750H has a 45W TDP rating. Long term, your HP computer is enforcing this 45W limit. There are no changes you can make in ThrottleStop to prevent this from happening. Perhaps when you were using the previous BIOS, HP was not enforcing this limit. All I know is that HP is doing this now. I would try going back to the previous BIOS version if that is possible.

If you are having stability issues, you need to significantly reduce your undervolt settings. The settings that were OK with the previous BIOS version might not work great with the new BIOS. Take a big step back. Maybe try -100 mV for the cache and -150 mV for the core. Try these settings for a day or two. Make sure all of your stability issues are gone before undervolting more than this.

 

[Ellusive]

@Ellusive - Lesson #1. A manufacturer recommended BIOS update does not always improve the user experience. I know most enthusiasts have that itch to update everything but when it comes to updating the BIOS, I would avoid it if my computer was running OK.

The last screenshot that shows PL1 and EDP OTHER lighting up in red are telling you that your CPU is throttling because of the long term turbo power limit. Your ThrottleStop settings are all OK. The problem is that the 9750H has a 45W TDP rating. Long term, your HP computer is enforcing this 45W limit. There are no changes you can make in ThrottleStop to prevent this from happening. Perhaps when you were using the previous BIOS, HP was not enforcing this limit. All I know is that HP is doing this now. I would try going back to the previous BIOS version if that is possible.

If you are having stability issues, you need to significantly reduce your undervolt settings. The settings that were OK with the previous BIOS version might not work great with the new BIOS. Take a big step back. Maybe try -100 mV for the cache and -150 mV for the core. Try these settings for a day or two. Make sure all of your stability issues are gone before undervolting more than this.

Thank you for your fast reply. I am in contact now with HP support, waiting for the previous version of bios, hopefuly I can rollback and everything will be fine.
It`s a common issues with HP pavilion and Omen laptops since the new bios came out, the forums at HP are filled with this problem.

I`ll post as soon as I get answers from them
Cheers!

 

[Ellusive]

OK so, there is no way I can rollback to the previous version of BIOS, I can roll back to a version from June , I did that, and it doesn`t help , I wanted the stock version, the one from april but its impossible, since HP locked the option to reload bios from flash drive or any other option.
i reduced the undervolt, tpl and modified most of my settings in Throttlestop, I still get the same problem with TPL and EDP flashing. I don`t get it , since the turbo ratios are lower , the clock speeds are at 3.4 / 3.5 or 3.6 , and that should be more than enough since on HWID it shows that the cpu is constantly pulling over 45w, why do I still get this damn errors and why my clock speeds go down to 3,1Mhz / 3,2 Mhz ?

Am I doing something wrong ? reduced the undervolt, change the TPL , changed the turbo limits , I figure less Mhz, means less power ...but still the same issue occurs.

These are my screenshots

Note : on the last 3 screenshots I tried something else , I clicked on the performance profile of the Omen command centre, which from my understandings allows the cpu to pull more power from the source, it`s by 0.3/0.4 w , I don`t even understand how that even makes a difference since in screenshot 4 , you can clearly see that it`s pulling arround 48/49w , and on performance profile its pulling the same, the difference is on performance profile I don`t get the errors. I`m baffled.
I don`t even know if undervolt does anything at this point, besides the fact that I used it to lower my clock speeds.

It`s a bloody shame, I went from 3.9Mhz / 4.1 Mhz cpu speeds and temps arround 76/78 degrees to 3.4Mhz and 80 degrees just because of some stupid update

 

[unclewebb]

the performance profile of the Omen command centre

That seems to have increased the turbo power limits. Increase the multiplier back to default specs and see at what power level you start to get PL1 or PL2 throttling. The performance profile might be good for 55W instead of the default 45W.

Have you done any Cinebench R20 testing yet? Some of these CPUs appreciate a much larger CPU core undervolt compared to the cache.

 

[Ellusive]

I`ve done -200 on core and 130.5 on cache , the multiplier is set by default at 26, should I leave this alone ? I have no ideea what it does, I`ve done all the testing I could, it runs well for a bout 30 seconds, after that power throttles back to 3.1Mhz / 3.2 Mhz. I have no ideea why this is happening, I lowered the turbo ratio limits to 37,37 / 36.36 / 35,35 ...and as I did that , noticed that it pulls lower power from the source. More Mhz , more power, but more power throttle, low turbo ratios means lower power, again power throttling .

I am baffled. I have no ideea what else to do ....

On cinebench r20 , it goes well for about 20 secs, then it power throttles back to 3.1MHz / 3.2Mhz , the final score 2665 , that`s with the turbo ratio limits at 37/36/35 which lowers the performance pretty much.

On the other hand, I tried the opposite, maxing out the turbo ratio limits to 45/44/43/42/41/40 as they were by default, on the performance profile, I was able to pull 75W, so I don`t know what to think anymore. did a bench in cinebench and got a score of 3096, while the cores all stayed at 3.9/4.0 Mhz clock, no power throttle. when I ran the same test in TS bench, got a bunch of errors, no power throttle but errors after errors.